The police have now revived the argument that, Angkhana, the girl they killed with their exploding CS grenades was carrying plastic explosives in her bra.
Australia’s role in the Asia-Pacific is vital to the stability of the 21st Century. I guess foreign language is easier to learn and with less effort at young age, say K-12. A few states in the U.S. and some schools in the Netherlands have already started the program.
Though the idea of (almost) free healthcare for all was warmly welcomed by all from the very beginning. The project itself posed a lot of headache,heartbreaking for doctors , healthcare professions. While Thaksin kept on campaigning the BEST quality service for everyone at only 30 baht! The increasing workloads added more burden on the(age old) inadequate fiscal support.People started expecting premium services. Treatment errors seemed to be unacceptable. Unbearable pressure were put on these doctors, along with lawsuits suing these docs for even the tiniest complications, not to mention the malpractice. This’s the reason why Thaksin was loathed by these docs. The project itself still had so many flaws to be fixed, ironically, it was carried over by the Dem-led governmet who’s so keen to accuse every bit of Thaksin regime.
I don’t buy the romanticisation of Buddhism by Westerners anymore than I buy the notion that Christianity is superior to Islam/Sikhism/Hinduism/Judaism etc.
Let’s look at a few societies and cultures where Buddhism is dominant – Cambodia, Burma, Sri Lanka, Thailand.
All of these have had enormous problems with vicious, murderous civil wars or forms of fascism that lay-waste to the establishment of democracy.
Coups, genocide, massacres of unarmed civilians. Nasty business.
The widely practised forms of Buddhism prevalent in these countries build into themselves a complete deference to authority (normally in the forms of monks) that severely inhibits freedoms and leads to said forms of fascism in the wider body-politic.
Back in the 1930s even the Tibetan monks were assassinating dissenters to their theocracy. Power always corrupts even the purest hearts.
Of course not all parts of all religions could be analysed as harmful but Buddhism has its failings as much as anything else. As a rational, humanist atheist why so many Westerners fail to take this up has always struck me as bizarre.
This article is a subversive writing against the current struggle for democracy in Thailand. It is a propaganda against people actively participate in political affairs that directly affect their lives. The intention of this Thai language article is clear, that is, to brainwash people to accept the status quo of economic disparity, injustice, and ignorance.
Comment no. 1 supports the article as a good tool for brainwashing.
Comment no. 2 implies that if people do not accept status quo, force will be used.
In conclusion, those who fight for democracy must organize themselves in such a way that your opponent dare not use force against you. No one will dare to bully you if you are strong and prepare.
I agree, and I think I just said…. the culture of heirarchical paternalism… is at the centre of many of these problems.
why do you think bringing back Thaksin would perpetuate this?
I think he showed strong elements of this during his time as PM.
Further, he does not appear to have changed his ways a lot since then.
But, of course that is just speculation on my part.
Never the less, I believe bringing him back will be no more than replacing one lot, with another lot – albeit their shirt colour might be different. But the paternalism and “daddy (or on this case TS) knows best”, are much the same.
Colum Graham makes a relevent point about why many people join the reds , or the yellows. I would bring that into this discussion, by saying, they do so ,because often, someone higher up, has told them so.
This is not a slight on Thai people’s ability to be democratic.
Given the chance,I know they can be.
But as long as leaders in this country – right from the village headmen, to right up there, perpetuate this culture, people will find it very hard to change.
The country needs unifiers, who can accept different points of view and not want to be, the only one in the spotlight.
And, certainly not PM’s who say “if you don’t vote for me, you won’t get anything”…to paraphrase your man.
I’m afraid, “track records” are hard to argue with in this case.
“The luxury of mono-lingualism is not coming back.” – Gillard —
I feel that this would be more accurate if there were a massive investment towards having different conversationalists in all levels of Australian schooling from all parts of Asia. However, the demand for English in Asia is far more than Australia’s comparitive demand for regional literacy and cultural education. It is an abysmal failure in relation to our supposed national multi-cultural interest. I can read Hangul really slowly, say ‘hello’, ‘how are you?’, ‘thanks’ and ‘goodbye’ in several languages, so how multi-lingual am I from that sort of open ended statement? If you can say ni hao, you’re no longer mono-lingual!
It’s not luxurious being mono-lingual, and her mentality that it is/was a luxury is why there isn’t change in our system, as luxury is pretty good. Luxury is never ‘over’! It’s luxurious to be multi-lingual!
Governments throughout Asia continue to submit us to Gillard’s luxury by having signs, labels, currency and even their people romanized, and perhaps this is why Kloppers feels he has witnessed a decline in ‘Asia literacy’ as I don’t feel the need to know. I have to want to know. And in the sort of society articulated here: http://www.zmag.org/zmag/viewArticle/20446, the want to know has only really occured as I’ve matured.
It’s mentally impovrishing that we don’t respond in the same spirit of understanding… both in relation to our economy, and friendship.
David, I don’t think there can be change while the clash of competing claims about Thai identity is so predictable. Would those wearing red shirts be wearing red shirts if the PAD didn’t wear yellow? I don’t think you can reduce what I have said to indirectly supporting the elites.
I must have failed to express that I think individuality needs to be more acknowledged amongst the groups, and in this way, they are not just part of yellow or red entities, they are individuals all of whom are Thai. The reasons behind people joining either group are not talked about beyond what it means to already be part of that particular group, and this is substituted for a reason to join.
If one happened to be an elite, don’t you think having two opposing groups arguing for the same thing, Thai identity, from different angles is a giant boon for maintaining power? Nothing is going to change while people are trying to provoke a reaction from (or to) what they feel is wrong with Thailand. As is often said, it’s easy to criticize. It’s easy to say what won’t produce change, and much harder to say how things can change. But.. as all revolutions are unique, perhaps Thailand’s will be the one where change comes easily through leaders who speak confidently?
I agree, and I think I just said…. the culture of heirarchical paternalism… is at the centre of many of these problems.
why do you think bringing back Thaksin would perpetuate this?
I would have thought that for Thaksin to come back the heirarchical paternalism, excercised by Prem and the elites would already have to be somehow overcome … currently it is their hold on power through the military and the courts that is keeping him away
If Thaksin comes back I dont see it guaranteed that he would be PM again… he would have to compete in the democratic electoral process… and as we know in other countries, nothing is certain until the people speak in the ballot box
I guess this is what people mean when they claim Thais do not understand democracy, they dont understand that democracy means the majority wins and the minority have to swallow their egos and try to work constructively until their next chance to run for election
the military and the elites keep falling over their egos and spoiling Thailand… pity, they still have a lot of learning to do
(btw… I forgot to mention that reverting to the 1997 constitution was the third of the red shirts 4 demands previously nailed to the gate of government house in the rally before last)
Thank u so much for yr post hobby. Your post help to draw the discussion back on track (away from personal attacks) and from now on I will take the role of silent obsever, instead of posting rather unprofessional comment (of my own).
David Brown, thnks for your comments.
I accept that many people in Thailand think Thaksin was the instigator of the current moves towards a more democratic society.
But, is that so ?
He certainly likes people to think it is.
More important though, is what the consequences would be for Thailand if he did come back.
Do you honestly think, the place would move ahead – in a democratic sense, with a totally fair justice system ?
History indicates, Thailand has always had difficulties in these areas of governance.
I contend, that bringing such a figure as Thaksin, back into the game, would only perpetuate the culture of heirachal paternalism, which is at the centre of many of these problems.
People – of any shirt colour – have got to learn that “hero” figures are more often than not, victims of that old, “power corrupts,absolute power corrupts, absolutely”.
I do say, if the democratic aims of the “red shirts” as often stated, can help destroy this dependency, I am all for them.
Perhaps they also understand, it is important to move beyond relying on “super heroes”……..how about you ?
Prasit: You have raised some intereting points regarding the Thai health system, and also regarding Royal projects.
Regarding lese majeste laws and the King:
– How do you reconcile the King’s 2005 speech with lese majeste charges against academics and journalists?
– What do you think is a more serious crime: Not standing for the anthem, or conducting violence in the name of the King?
– In the light of the Kings 2005 speech, should people who bring frivolous lese majeste charges, be themselves charged with lese majeste (for disrespecting the King)?
also, here’s a more general question:
Should someone remain silent whilst violence, including killings, are done in his or her name, or do you think they have an obligation to do all that they can to mitigate such violence?
To govern men in accord with nature
It is best to be restrained;
Restraint makes agreement easy to attain,
And easy agreement builds harmonious relationships;
With sufficient harmony no resistance will arise;
When no resistance arises, then you possess the heart of the nation,
And when you possess the nation’s heart, your influence will long endure:
Deeply rooted and firmly established.
This is the method of far sight and long life.
The weakness and strengths of Ji’s manifesto have been discussed here and in other sites ages ago by many NM participants. The downside of the manifesto is that it will make it so convenient for Ji’s enemy to label him as the traitor of the Thai state and ‘the establishment’. The strength of this manifesto is that it shows the author’s courage to speak openly against the ‘untouchable’ in Thailand. All people residing in Thailand and even overseas are well aware of the ‘great things’ about ‘the institution’ mentioned by the poster above me because of the intensive, 24 hrs PR campaign on Thai TVs and other state-santioned discourses. What we want to know is the balanced picture of things as they actually are, not the mindless celebration and elevation, as if ‘they’ are not mere human beings, but deities!
Nick really did a good job providing details of the brutal assaults by Thai police together with a few photos. Unfortunately, it was gonzo journalism.
Of all the photos exhibited here, he failed to provide a single picture as evidence showing the protester’s possession of the ping pong bomblets or the protester’s action of throwing them at the anti-riot police who were clearly well armed & better prepared for the assaults.
How many injuries on the police you see here from these photos? Nick shows his clear bias & low ethical journalism when he described he had to return to the scene after he heard the HOSTILITIES had broken out again. Because English is his native tongue, I can’t imagine Nick does not know the word ATTACK or ASSAULT which was the actual act the happened during that bloody & deadly day initiated by the police without provocation. It just does not make sense that the unarmed & peaceful protesters who had been protesting continuously for months would all of the sudden decided to attack the well equipped & trained killers in front of them! Have you ever thought whether this deadly assault is the only option needed to break up the crowd? Is the assault by weapons on old & young people justified only to allow PM Somchai & two hundred or so lawmakers to enter into the Parliament to make a policy speech?
All of you who praised & cheered Nick need to be ashamed of yourself. Have you compared Nick’s story & pictures with those reported on other major newspapers in Thailand (both Thai & English) on this before giving your thumb up to him & praising him? The enormous amount of money you spent for your education evidently failed to help you become a logical & open-minded person. Based on the supports you have given to perpetuate lies & fact distortions, I also doubt your ability to follow the good teaching of your religion. You guys are not much different than Thai Red Guards of Thaksin & his cronies. The only differences I can see are those Red Guards (Red shirt thugs) got paid for the piece work & they are undereducated.
For Fred Nerk: I am sorry that I really can’t follow your writing very well. Maybe I need some of that Special Royal Sauce to be able to cope better with your colourful prose. You state “it’s easy enough to say ‘CIA sponsored anthropologists dreamt up the Devaraja Renaissance’,” but who said it? There are some books related to the role of the U.S. in Thailand in this period, but they don’t get into the role of the monarchy much. Anthropologists did research symbols of loyalty and their reports are in the Thailand Information Center.
On deaths, I was referring to the period of anti-communist warfare in Thailand.
On the historical record, I like to think that much of it remains in archives in various places.
My foundation question is that what community forest means? I think the bill has distorted and monopolized its diverse meaning and practices in Thailand. Each actor have proposed and put their owned political meaning into the bill. You too, Andrew, put issue of land tenure issue into the Bill and caused more confusion. Your suggestions are right in the case of northern hill tribes issue, but other regions are different. Since every stakeholders who actually work in air-conditioned office have pushed their owned interests, I could say that the passing bill alienated to community forest practices on the ground. Have villagers who practically manage forest been given a chance to express their owned interests in this process? Whom/what we are represented for? Have we legitimized to speak for them? I think these questions have to be answered clearly before going to further discussion. It’s not too late to restart!
The bill has not been signed by the King, activists were filing their complaint to the Constitutional Court.
I am not sure that everyone who read will see the weak or strangth of the reading because you don’t show that as I have said from the very beginning post.
I will accept if anyone can show their thought or views from their reading or critical thinking but as far as I know you don’t do that.
I post the last one before you admit yourself for offend other people on individual. I appreciate that but I will repeat that you don’t say what your balance of view of that pictures in your head. So this is the last time I will look at posting on your name unless you start comment and show constructive arguments and evidences that are not personally believe or just say I believe because I have read that.
Discussion more on Ji’s idea.
I don’t agree with the idea about King and royal family’s projects and charities activities comparing with goverment works.
Government, cabinets and MPs are elected with the social contract to work and solve the country problem by administrative power and legislative power under the constitution. But the king is the figure head, the representative of the power and the nations. But the king and the royal family do more than their functions.
The royal projects helps a lot of people especially the poorest people who lack opportunities to use any resource developed from government. It is the complementary and the good for constitutional monarchy.
Volunteer doctor foundation under the royal patronage of Kings mother that pass to King sister and now under the support from HRH PRincess Mahajakri Sirinthorn is the example. Volunteer doctors who participate in the projects reach out to the farthest and poorest areas of the countries which start decades before the universal health system.
Royal projects in the Norther part of Thailand change the hill tribes people from opium growers to produce high quality food products.
Traffic projects, antiflood projects, artificial rains projects and so on are the royal projects actively help loads of Thai people.
Goverment do their works, the king and royal family is also do their work.
Just the political sides that try to discredit the other side by abusing the laws and that is also not good for the king.
I partially agree with the imperfect part of the use of lese majeste laws. But it is the separated issue from criticizing king without evidence in order to defaming, insulting. This question has been raised in the talk, and he tried to forget and he didn’t answer this important question.
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Giles Ungpakorn invites the Ambassador to debate
I strongly support this initiative.
The public debate would give an opportunity to exchange perspectives and enhance the chance of understanding each other stand on the issues.
I urge the ambassador to accept this sincere proposal.
What happened on 7/10/2008?
The police have now revived the argument that, Angkhana, the girl they killed with their exploding CS grenades was carrying plastic explosives in her bra.
Asian languages in Australia
Australia’s role in the Asia-Pacific is vital to the stability of the 21st Century. I guess foreign language is easier to learn and with less effort at young age, say K-12. A few states in the U.S. and some schools in the Netherlands have already started the program.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Regarding Thaksin’s universal healthcare project:
Though the idea of (almost) free healthcare for all was warmly welcomed by all from the very beginning. The project itself posed a lot of headache,heartbreaking for doctors , healthcare professions. While Thaksin kept on campaigning the BEST quality service for everyone at only 30 baht! The increasing workloads added more burden on the(age old) inadequate fiscal support.People started expecting premium services. Treatment errors seemed to be unacceptable. Unbearable pressure were put on these doctors, along with lawsuits suing these docs for even the tiniest complications, not to mention the malpractice. This’s the reason why Thaksin was loathed by these docs. The project itself still had so many flaws to be fixed, ironically, it was carried over by the Dem-led governmet who’s so keen to accuse every bit of Thaksin regime.
Thailand: Love it or leave it
I don’t buy the romanticisation of Buddhism by Westerners anymore than I buy the notion that Christianity is superior to Islam/Sikhism/Hinduism/Judaism etc.
Let’s look at a few societies and cultures where Buddhism is dominant – Cambodia, Burma, Sri Lanka, Thailand.
All of these have had enormous problems with vicious, murderous civil wars or forms of fascism that lay-waste to the establishment of democracy.
Coups, genocide, massacres of unarmed civilians. Nasty business.
The widely practised forms of Buddhism prevalent in these countries build into themselves a complete deference to authority (normally in the forms of monks) that severely inhibits freedoms and leads to said forms of fascism in the wider body-politic.
Back in the 1930s even the Tibetan monks were assassinating dissenters to their theocracy. Power always corrupts even the purest hearts.
Of course not all parts of all religions could be analysed as harmful but Buddhism has its failings as much as anything else. As a rational, humanist atheist why so many Westerners fail to take this up has always struck me as bizarre.
Thai democracy wasn’t built in a day
This article is a subversive writing against the current struggle for democracy in Thailand. It is a propaganda against people actively participate in political affairs that directly affect their lives. The intention of this Thai language article is clear, that is, to brainwash people to accept the status quo of economic disparity, injustice, and ignorance.
Comment no. 1 supports the article as a good tool for brainwashing.
Comment no. 2 implies that if people do not accept status quo, force will be used.
In conclusion, those who fight for democracy must organize themselves in such a way that your opponent dare not use force against you. No one will dare to bully you if you are strong and prepare.
Red Shirt protest at Government House
David Brown – from your last comment :
I agree, and I think I just said…. the culture of heirarchical paternalism… is at the centre of many of these problems.
why do you think bringing back Thaksin would perpetuate this?
I think he showed strong elements of this during his time as PM.
Further, he does not appear to have changed his ways a lot since then.
But, of course that is just speculation on my part.
Never the less, I believe bringing him back will be no more than replacing one lot, with another lot – albeit their shirt colour might be different. But the paternalism and “daddy (or on this case TS) knows best”, are much the same.
Colum Graham makes a relevent point about why many people join the reds , or the yellows. I would bring that into this discussion, by saying, they do so ,because often, someone higher up, has told them so.
This is not a slight on Thai people’s ability to be democratic.
Given the chance,I know they can be.
But as long as leaders in this country – right from the village headmen, to right up there, perpetuate this culture, people will find it very hard to change.
The country needs unifiers, who can accept different points of view and not want to be, the only one in the spotlight.
And, certainly not PM’s who say “if you don’t vote for me, you won’t get anything”…to paraphrase your man.
I’m afraid, “track records” are hard to argue with in this case.
Asian languages in Australia
“The luxury of mono-lingualism is not coming back.” – Gillard —
I feel that this would be more accurate if there were a massive investment towards having different conversationalists in all levels of Australian schooling from all parts of Asia. However, the demand for English in Asia is far more than Australia’s comparitive demand for regional literacy and cultural education. It is an abysmal failure in relation to our supposed national multi-cultural interest. I can read Hangul really slowly, say ‘hello’, ‘how are you?’, ‘thanks’ and ‘goodbye’ in several languages, so how multi-lingual am I from that sort of open ended statement? If you can say ni hao, you’re no longer mono-lingual!
It’s not luxurious being mono-lingual, and her mentality that it is/was a luxury is why there isn’t change in our system, as luxury is pretty good. Luxury is never ‘over’! It’s luxurious to be multi-lingual!
Governments throughout Asia continue to submit us to Gillard’s luxury by having signs, labels, currency and even their people romanized, and perhaps this is why Kloppers feels he has witnessed a decline in ‘Asia literacy’ as I don’t feel the need to know. I have to want to know. And in the sort of society articulated here: http://www.zmag.org/zmag/viewArticle/20446, the want to know has only really occured as I’ve matured.
It’s mentally impovrishing that we don’t respond in the same spirit of understanding… both in relation to our economy, and friendship.
Red Shirt protest at Government House
David, I don’t think there can be change while the clash of competing claims about Thai identity is so predictable. Would those wearing red shirts be wearing red shirts if the PAD didn’t wear yellow? I don’t think you can reduce what I have said to indirectly supporting the elites.
I must have failed to express that I think individuality needs to be more acknowledged amongst the groups, and in this way, they are not just part of yellow or red entities, they are individuals all of whom are Thai. The reasons behind people joining either group are not talked about beyond what it means to already be part of that particular group, and this is substituted for a reason to join.
If one happened to be an elite, don’t you think having two opposing groups arguing for the same thing, Thai identity, from different angles is a giant boon for maintaining power? Nothing is going to change while people are trying to provoke a reaction from (or to) what they feel is wrong with Thailand. As is often said, it’s easy to criticize. It’s easy to say what won’t produce change, and much harder to say how things can change. But.. as all revolutions are unique, perhaps Thailand’s will be the one where change comes easily through leaders who speak confidently?
Red Shirt protest at Government House
Regular Reader….
I agree, and I think I just said…. the culture of heirarchical paternalism… is at the centre of many of these problems.
why do you think bringing back Thaksin would perpetuate this?
I would have thought that for Thaksin to come back the heirarchical paternalism, excercised by Prem and the elites would already have to be somehow overcome … currently it is their hold on power through the military and the courts that is keeping him away
If Thaksin comes back I dont see it guaranteed that he would be PM again… he would have to compete in the democratic electoral process… and as we know in other countries, nothing is certain until the people speak in the ballot box
I guess this is what people mean when they claim Thais do not understand democracy, they dont understand that democracy means the majority wins and the minority have to swallow their egos and try to work constructively until their next chance to run for election
the military and the elites keep falling over their egos and spoiling Thailand… pity, they still have a lot of learning to do
(btw… I forgot to mention that reverting to the 1997 constitution was the third of the red shirts 4 demands previously nailed to the gate of government house in the rally before last)
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Thank u so much for yr post hobby. Your post help to draw the discussion back on track (away from personal attacks) and from now on I will take the role of silent obsever, instead of posting rather unprofessional comment (of my own).
Red Shirt protest at Government House
David Brown, thnks for your comments.
I accept that many people in Thailand think Thaksin was the instigator of the current moves towards a more democratic society.
But, is that so ?
He certainly likes people to think it is.
More important though, is what the consequences would be for Thailand if he did come back.
Do you honestly think, the place would move ahead – in a democratic sense, with a totally fair justice system ?
History indicates, Thailand has always had difficulties in these areas of governance.
I contend, that bringing such a figure as Thaksin, back into the game, would only perpetuate the culture of heirachal paternalism, which is at the centre of many of these problems.
People – of any shirt colour – have got to learn that “hero” figures are more often than not, victims of that old, “power corrupts,absolute power corrupts, absolutely”.
I do say, if the democratic aims of the “red shirts” as often stated, can help destroy this dependency, I am all for them.
Perhaps they also understand, it is important to move beyond relying on “super heroes”……..how about you ?
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
Prasit: You have raised some intereting points regarding the Thai health system, and also regarding Royal projects.
Regarding lese majeste laws and the King:
– How do you reconcile the King’s 2005 speech with lese majeste charges against academics and journalists?
– What do you think is a more serious crime: Not standing for the anthem, or conducting violence in the name of the King?
– In the light of the Kings 2005 speech, should people who bring frivolous lese majeste charges, be themselves charged with lese majeste (for disrespecting the King)?
also, here’s a more general question:
Should someone remain silent whilst violence, including killings, are done in his or her name, or do you think they have an obligation to do all that they can to mitigate such violence?
Thai democracy wasn’t built in a day
р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕Др╕┤р╕бр╕лр╕▒р╕Щр╕Хр╣Мр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
р╕Вр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ р╕бр╕╕р╕бр╕бр╕нр╕Зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕кр╕Щр╣Гр╕Ир╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ!
р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щ р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕зр╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Др╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Фр╕нр╕Бр╣Др╕бр╣Йр╣Гр╕Кр╣Ир╣Др╕лр╕б? р╣Гр╕Щр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕Фр╕нр╕Бр╕Ыр╕ер╕╣р╕Бр╣Ар╕нр╕З р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕Ир╕│р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕Щр╕кр╕зр╕Щр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╕░р╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ? р╕Бр╕зр╕╡р╕Щр╕┤р╕Юр╕Щр╕Шр╣Мр╕Ир╕╡р╕Щр╕Ър╕Чр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З (Tao De Jing) р╣Ар╕Вр╕╡р╕вр╕Щр╕зр╣Ир╕▓
Manage a great nation as you would cook a small fish
To govern men in accord with nature
It is best to be restrained;
Restraint makes agreement easy to attain,
And easy agreement builds harmonious relationships;
With sufficient harmony no resistance will arise;
When no resistance arises, then you possess the heart of the nation,
And when you possess the nation’s heart, your influence will long endure:
Deeply rooted and firmly established.
This is the method of far sight and long life.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
The weakness and strengths of Ji’s manifesto have been discussed here and in other sites ages ago by many NM participants. The downside of the manifesto is that it will make it so convenient for Ji’s enemy to label him as the traitor of the Thai state and ‘the establishment’. The strength of this manifesto is that it shows the author’s courage to speak openly against the ‘untouchable’ in Thailand. All people residing in Thailand and even overseas are well aware of the ‘great things’ about ‘the institution’ mentioned by the poster above me because of the intensive, 24 hrs PR campaign on Thai TVs and other state-santioned discourses. What we want to know is the balanced picture of things as they actually are, not the mindless celebration and elevation, as if ‘they’ are not mere human beings, but deities!
What happened on 7/10/2008?
Nick really did a good job providing details of the brutal assaults by Thai police together with a few photos. Unfortunately, it was gonzo journalism.
Of all the photos exhibited here, he failed to provide a single picture as evidence showing the protester’s possession of the ping pong bomblets or the protester’s action of throwing them at the anti-riot police who were clearly well armed & better prepared for the assaults.
How many injuries on the police you see here from these photos? Nick shows his clear bias & low ethical journalism when he described he had to return to the scene after he heard the HOSTILITIES had broken out again. Because English is his native tongue, I can’t imagine Nick does not know the word ATTACK or ASSAULT which was the actual act the happened during that bloody & deadly day initiated by the police without provocation. It just does not make sense that the unarmed & peaceful protesters who had been protesting continuously for months would all of the sudden decided to attack the well equipped & trained killers in front of them! Have you ever thought whether this deadly assault is the only option needed to break up the crowd? Is the assault by weapons on old & young people justified only to allow PM Somchai & two hundred or so lawmakers to enter into the Parliament to make a policy speech?
All of you who praised & cheered Nick need to be ashamed of yourself. Have you compared Nick’s story & pictures with those reported on other major newspapers in Thailand (both Thai & English) on this before giving your thumb up to him & praising him? The enormous amount of money you spent for your education evidently failed to help you become a logical & open-minded person. Based on the supports you have given to perpetuate lies & fact distortions, I also doubt your ability to follow the good teaching of your religion. You guys are not much different than Thai Red Guards of Thaksin & his cronies. The only differences I can see are those Red Guards (Red shirt thugs) got paid for the piece work & they are undereducated.
Thailand: Love it or leave it
For michael: the link works for me.
For Fred Nerk: I am sorry that I really can’t follow your writing very well. Maybe I need some of that Special Royal Sauce to be able to cope better with your colourful prose. You state “it’s easy enough to say ‘CIA sponsored anthropologists dreamt up the Devaraja Renaissance’,” but who said it? There are some books related to the role of the U.S. in Thailand in this period, but they don’t get into the role of the monarchy much. Anthropologists did research symbols of loyalty and their reports are in the Thailand Information Center.
On deaths, I was referring to the period of anti-communist warfare in Thailand.
On the historical record, I like to think that much of it remains in archives in various places.
Will the Community Forest Act be good for farmers?
Andrew,
My foundation question is that what community forest means? I think the bill has distorted and monopolized its diverse meaning and practices in Thailand. Each actor have proposed and put their owned political meaning into the bill. You too, Andrew, put issue of land tenure issue into the Bill and caused more confusion. Your suggestions are right in the case of northern hill tribes issue, but other regions are different. Since every stakeholders who actually work in air-conditioned office have pushed their owned interests, I could say that the passing bill alienated to community forest practices on the ground. Have villagers who practically manage forest been given a chance to express their owned interests in this process? Whom/what we are represented for? Have we legitimized to speak for them? I think these questions have to be answered clearly before going to further discussion. It’s not too late to restart!
The bill has not been signed by the King, activists were filing their complaint to the Constitutional Court.
Surin
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
I am not sure that everyone who read will see the weak or strangth of the reading because you don’t show that as I have said from the very beginning post.
I will accept if anyone can show their thought or views from their reading or critical thinking but as far as I know you don’t do that.
I post the last one before you admit yourself for offend other people on individual. I appreciate that but I will repeat that you don’t say what your balance of view of that pictures in your head. So this is the last time I will look at posting on your name unless you start comment and show constructive arguments and evidences that are not personally believe or just say I believe because I have read that.
Discussion more on Ji’s idea.
I don’t agree with the idea about King and royal family’s projects and charities activities comparing with goverment works.
Government, cabinets and MPs are elected with the social contract to work and solve the country problem by administrative power and legislative power under the constitution. But the king is the figure head, the representative of the power and the nations. But the king and the royal family do more than their functions.
The royal projects helps a lot of people especially the poorest people who lack opportunities to use any resource developed from government. It is the complementary and the good for constitutional monarchy.
Volunteer doctor foundation under the royal patronage of Kings mother that pass to King sister and now under the support from HRH PRincess Mahajakri Sirinthorn is the example. Volunteer doctors who participate in the projects reach out to the farthest and poorest areas of the countries which start decades before the universal health system.
Royal projects in the Norther part of Thailand change the hill tribes people from opium growers to produce high quality food products.
Traffic projects, antiflood projects, artificial rains projects and so on are the royal projects actively help loads of Thai people.
Goverment do their works, the king and royal family is also do their work.
Just the political sides that try to discredit the other side by abusing the laws and that is also not good for the king.
I partially agree with the imperfect part of the use of lese majeste laws. But it is the separated issue from criticizing king without evidence in order to defaming, insulting. This question has been raised in the talk, and he tried to forget and he didn’t answer this important question.
Thai democracy wasn’t built in a day
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