While two wrongs proverbially don’t make a right, the idea that the PAD is showing its disregard for the law is somehow being elevated over and above current and past Thai administrations and their cabinet members, elected reps and so on who have been disregarding the law for decades and decades – why else is Thailand so corrupt and its social infrastructure on the verge of collapse?
Let’s not try to convert a dozen apples into half dozen each apples and oranges. Thaksin’s brother-in-law running the current government! Anyone home there? Isn’t this a flaunting of ethics and the law by prearranging who runs the country? Don’t blame the PAD. All they aer doing is insisting on change. The Thai elite don’t want it. Neither do comfortable foreigners.
BTW, see http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=132261 where PAD claims victory in preventing parliament meeting. How about that! Preventing the elected parliament from meeting is a victory. Of course it is a victory based on PAD-disseminated rumours that there were to be constitutional changes. PAD deserve to be condemned for more fascist-like behaviour.
Andrew: ever the optimist! I doubt that the PAD ideologues will allow a fizzle, although I hope you are right. My feeling is that they are the ones who want blood. Look at the Nation last week, where all the editorialists bayed for blood. They reflect elements of the PAD leadership. How disappointed have they been to see the red shirts simply rallying and then going home. My guess is that they will push and push until even more martyrs are created. They crave a clash.
I agree. PAD seems to be going nowhere. For a time it genuinely seemed to be a political force to be reckoned with. Now it conjures up the air of a bunch or rather noisy eccentrics. Here’s to hoping the current antics won’t be followed by a ‘final, final final, battle.’
And what’s with those ridiculous plastic hand devices?
Tomorrow it’s just business as usual; you’ll see .
Once again, I can’t help noting the irony in the apparent concern of Thai officials regarding contamination of Chinese imported dairy products and their deathly silence of those same officials when it comes to the dangers of asbestos. The following is a brief extract from a recent interview available on the net:
Somkiat believes all forms of asbestos should be banned but that is a decision the Thai Government is not likely to take as long as there is pressure from the business community.
SOMKIAT SIRIRUTTANAPRUK: Yes, yes. We first happen two months ago, I joined the meeting between ministries and we raised this topic in the meeting but, for the employer side of view, they said right now if they change to use another material, the price will increase and it will affect the industry in our country.
In other words health is an issue of apparent concern but only if it doesn’t hurt the commercial interests of the most wealthy Thai citizenry. Make no mistake, Siam Cement and others are not ignorant of the dangers of their product.
Seems like a great issue for you to expose, Jonathan H.
Sidh, not that it matters so much, but I believe the first suggestions of a division of the country came from the PAD stage as did suggestions of civil war. That these views are now taken up by some on both sides is interesting.
Nation and Monarchy seem to be in play. And religion as well following the peaceful red shirt rally at Wat Suan Kaew?
I’m from the North of Thailand but I’m not pro-taksin, and I don’t fancy having him as a top leader for Northerners at all.
However, I ‘m tempted to respond to the above post. I’m not sure if my following comment will outrage a lot of Thais or not. Well,.. I’ll give it a go though. I don’t think it’s that bad at all if the governing power is more decentralized than it is now.. Bangkok has been asserting firm control over other Thai regions for an age.. and whether u like it or not, local culture , language and way of life have been damaged by this ongoing hegemony.. I think the South is a more extreme case– I don’t think anyone can deny that the current violence and suffering in the South is largely a result of the imposition of BKK norms and standards on Southerners who hold on to different set of religious and cultural belief(s) and practice(s). Of course, maltreatment, bias, prejudice are part of this attempt to assimilate Southerners.
I don’t think ‘national unity’ is unproblematic. In fact, we really need to question this promotion of ‘national unity’ especially if it comes at the expense of regional/local autonomy, or if it requires the use of force to suppress local specificities and difference.
I will add ‘War with the UK’ when Thaksin returns as prime minister to the scenarios? I just followed a link from the Nation to this inverview with PMThaksin in Arabian Business:
This does not bode well for TescoLotus – maybe even the Premier League (a ban on live telecasts?)… How dare the UK government humiliate he-who-could-do-no-wrong?
(on a serious note, this is a sign of PMThaksin losing the plot…)
Srithanonchai #8 “Anybody for making the North and the Northeast independent from Bangkok and the South?”
As a Thai, I am totally against it of course. However, I just mentioned that possibility in an answer to Doglover on another topic. It came from a quote from a PPPLamphun MP in Thairath last week (with my rough translation):
(… There are even more hardcore views from Saguan Pongmanee, PPP Lamphun MP, who without holding back, said that today the door to civil war between Thais is already opened and is getting more real. And if the judiciary process cannot enforce the law on every group…)
(“The worse possibility is the division of the country, surely like the final era of the Soviet Union”)
For me it is impossible because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the overwhelming majority of Thais will be against it. Secondly, there a better chance of returning to a military dictatorship than a division of Thailand…
But, as an academic excercise consistent with the issues raised by this post, I think it is worth entertaining. The questions I pose:
– What kind of democracy would a country under PMThaksin/PPP/UDD, ruling over Thailand’s north and northeast and with the capital at Chiang Mai, turn out to be like?
– What kind of demcracy dominated by the Democrats/PAD in the central and south of Thailand turn out to be?
– They will likely be mortal enemies – what impact would this have on the geo-politics of the region?
Doglover, if PMThaksin gives in and goes to jail quietly, they’ll be no war: “My people, I have made another honest mistake. This time I will have to go to prison for it. I deserve it as I broke the law. Please wait for me for 2-3 years. I will come back to serve you”. If he goes in fighting and cursing, swearing revenge – the country will have to split as one PPP MP suggested. Thailand will be reduced to the central and southern regions. Thaksin will rule the north and northeast (which one will be more democratic would be another question). Like the partition of Pakistan from India, people will have to choose which country they want to stay in.
The latter scenario is already ongoing, especially if we see exiled fugitive on the run as a form of being in ‘prison’. PMThaksin was running the PPP government from his English ‘prison’ – it is now Dubai (like mafia bosses running the crime syndicate from behind bars)…
I doubt PMThakin’s ‘assassination’ will lead to an all out war, it would more likely translate a big political mandate for politicians close to him who can lay claim to be his ‘heir’. Whoever they are, they’ll likely govern better than the current PPP without his influence and interference.
Doglover, believe me, I’d like to see it beyond the pro-/anti-Thaksin mindset. I just can’t as it is the main show that dominates Thai current political space. It is certainly narrow, sad as it is… It is also violent – which is only Thai and rather hard to explain to HCLau (and most foreigners not familiar with the naunces of the elite and street rules).
(RULE #1: Don’t bother to protest against ANY Thai elite without being armed to the teeth. HCLau would have missed the news a couple of weeks ago of Klongtoey vendors protesting against eviction got a bomb thrown into the protest:
KhunHCLau, yes, everyone is behaving above the law – but my argument is quite basic. The prime minister, in any functioning democracy, must be the standard-bearer of the rule of law. It is his clear role under the constitution. In any mature democracy, the issue of accountability is fundamental and the punishment is much more severe for office-holders that break the law – as it should be.
The problem we have today, where everyone disregards the law, stems from PMThaksin’s power abuses and cynical approach to the 1997 Constitution (e.g. the fundamental issue of conflicts of interests in the assets concealment case. Legally, he can’t hold controlling shares in ShinCorp, so he lets his driver and servants hold it instead).
And it is in the rule of law where PMChuan is a superior prime minister to PMThaksin (not in other areas ofcourse – but the rule of law benefits society more in the long term, I argue). MajGenSanan Krajornprasat, then the Democrat’s kingmaker, was convicted of precisely the same case in the late 90s – there was no fight to the death. That should have set a landmark precedent but was totally ignored by PMThaksin…
PMThaksin, as a former prime minister and arguably the person puppeteering PMSomchai, must submit the the rule of law FIRST. PAD leaders will then certainly get their day in the Thai courts…
Let’s see how much cheering the Koolaid drinkers are doing six months from now when Obama is neck deep in problems with no viable solutions.
He is surrounding himself with the same morally bankrupt people who previously worked for Clinton. How’s that for “Change”?
If the U.S. suffers a major – or even minor – terrorist attack during Obama’s term in office, the citizenry will be yelling, “Off with his head” and reconsidering their vote.
By the way, a 52% to 48% victory isn’t a mandate by any stretch of the imagination. Almost half the population think he’s a charlatan – it wouldn’t take much to tip the scale back the other way.
This conversation is continually coming back to mercenaries.
I don’t know of anyone trying to make any money off of the KNLA other than a few reporters who have sold their stories to magazines.
I’m well acquainted with Dan Pedersen, and he’s definitely on the side of the angels. The guy has gone way above what is asked of anyone who is aware of the plight of the long suffering Karens.
As for Nerdah Mya, Rocky gave up a comfortable life in the U.S. to fight for his people in Burma. He could be siting on the beach in California, sipping wine. Instead, he’s in a malaria infested jungle.
I have communicated with several people in the U.S. govt regarding the Karens. They don’t want to be bothered. As Dave Everett pointed out in an earlier post, they don’t want to rock the boat.
The big fear is that the Chinese will intervene in a real big way if the junta in Rangoon feels threatened by outside forces.
The last thing the U.S. wants is the Chinese navy coming over the horizon, or elements of the Chinese army encamped on the Thai border. It’s just that simple.
Put another way – everyone is making money, the oil and gas is flowing freely and the various generals are getting rich. What’s the lives of a few million people?
One last thing. Who are you to tell Americans – or anyone else, for that matter – to not go there and volunteer to fight?
If a guy weighs the pros and cons of going there, it isn’t your concern. If the KNLA or the SSA doesn’t want them, that’s for them to say, and definitely not you.
I say more power to anyone who is willing to risk his/her life in the advancement of a good cause.
And before you reply that you’ve spoken to this guy, or that guy, let me tell you that so have I. They welcome the help, with the exception of the “war tourists” and wannabees. They feel proud that people are willing to come in and share the same hardships and dangers as themselves.
I sure hope you aren’t a missionary. I really, REALLY hate those bastards.
I am an American and was with Daniel Pedersen and Nerdah Mya in July 08. I learned 2 things.
#1 …The KNLA does not need mercenary foreign fighters. They have thousands of brave, willing and highly motivated potential Karen fighters waiting to be handed a functional M-16. They need functional weapons and ammo. The # of Karen soldiers = # of functional weapons.
#2…The Karen need Western, especially US media attention. The largest export in the US is now “the entertainment ” industry. If the genocide in Burma is ever broadly depicted in the US news, movie, music etc industry, the international political pressure generated would be formidable and would likely lead to the castration of the the Myanmar government/ SPDC , as a newly image conscious , tourist friendly, China, and Thailand would likely shrink from the international embarrassment and coerce its evil ally to at least moderate its brutal tactics .
Long live Nerdah Mya and Daniel Pedersen. Two true heros of humanity keeping hope alive for their Karen brothers and sisters.
And as in all political scenarios in Thailand, not a single one will be even remotely in the wider public interest. Thailand’s royalist elite really only has itself to blame. In a system where one cannot say anything even remotely critical of the royal family or the other mafia who run this country, politics has degenerated into an absurd theater of vacuous mob violence bankrolled by the different power factions. A political system without a viable left-wing (or even a viable midfield) is going nowhere.
I recently recieved this email from someone in Singapore.
“Was incredible how excited people here were over the recent elections (all rooting for Obama), more so than over our own (since a large percentage of eligible voters don’t get to vote anyway). Singaporeans in the US were sending SMSes & emails back to family & friends in Singapore as the results unfolded. & the Americans working in my institute were walking through the labs yelling that Obama had won. A lot of work for the new admin to do & mess to clear…but still, thank you from this part of the world.”
NRNYS seems correct that Thanong was not one of those specifically investigated. In the meantime, I have been doing a bit of searching. Here’s some added detail, based on (http://www.seapabkk.org/news/thailand/20020320.html).
AMLO went after more at the Nation. This was the subject of a number of reports in 2002.
One report , mostly based on leaks via the Democrats, stated: “Nation Group editor Suthichai Yoon and his son, Prabda, group editor Thepchai Yong and senior editor Sopon Onkgara…” in one report and “…Amlo had ordered 17 banks to send to the agency the financial statements of 35 journalists and their family members…” in another. In one report it is stated that, in total, AMLO was conducting “… financial checks on some of the 247 targetted individuals…”. At one stage Thaksin himself claimed that he had been investigated by AMLO. Other names on the list were reportedly Capital Nomura Securities and Merrill Lynch.
Yet another report says this: “The list included businessmen Somsak Leesawattrakul, Veena Cherdboonchart, Narong Chokewattana and Chumpol Pornprapa; Gen Sunthorn Kongsompong, late former supreme commander, his wife Khunying Orachorn and his common-law wife, Ampapan; former navy chief Prapat Krissanachan; Phetchabun senator Prasong Kositanond and academic Nath Bhamarapravati. American citizen Peter Jensen, former husband of Princess Ubonrat, was also on the list.” Note the last one!
AMLO also invetigated a bunch of NGO activists. Thaksin as PM was the chair of AMLO.
Portman #96: Thanks Portman. As you say, stories like this – and I have quite a stock of them – must be classed as ‘hearsay.’ This doesn’t mean they aren’t true, of course. It just means they can’t be quoted with real credibility. Mai pen rai!
Michelle Tan #97: Thank you so much. Please do send me the pdf.
michaelinseaATgmail.com (delete AT, & replace with @)
Actually it was Suthichai Yoon who was targetted for investigation by AMLO during Thaksin era. But The Nation columnists like Suthichai, Thanong, Sophon, Tulsatit, Thepchai (Suthichai’s brother at PBS tv station) etc share a common hatred against Thaksin and these people have lost their journalistic perspectives and indulge in personal vendetta. One journalist from this newspaper who remains objective is Pravit and I once attended his talk at the FCCT and you can clearly see what kind of person he is. Also, try to read “Chang Noi” column at the Nation and one can see the balance in its analysis.
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The beginning of the end for PAD?
While two wrongs proverbially don’t make a right, the idea that the PAD is showing its disregard for the law is somehow being elevated over and above current and past Thai administrations and their cabinet members, elected reps and so on who have been disregarding the law for decades and decades – why else is Thailand so corrupt and its social infrastructure on the verge of collapse?
Let’s not try to convert a dozen apples into half dozen each apples and oranges. Thaksin’s brother-in-law running the current government! Anyone home there? Isn’t this a flaunting of ethics and the law by prearranging who runs the country? Don’t blame the PAD. All they aer doing is insisting on change. The Thai elite don’t want it. Neither do comfortable foreigners.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
BTW, see http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=132261 where PAD claims victory in preventing parliament meeting. How about that! Preventing the elected parliament from meeting is a victory. Of course it is a victory based on PAD-disseminated rumours that there were to be constitutional changes. PAD deserve to be condemned for more fascist-like behaviour.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
Andrew: ever the optimist! I doubt that the PAD ideologues will allow a fizzle, although I hope you are right. My feeling is that they are the ones who want blood. Look at the Nation last week, where all the editorialists bayed for blood. They reflect elements of the PAD leadership. How disappointed have they been to see the red shirts simply rallying and then going home. My guess is that they will push and push until even more martyrs are created. They crave a clash.
The beginning of the end for PAD?
I agree. PAD seems to be going nowhere. For a time it genuinely seemed to be a political force to be reckoned with. Now it conjures up the air of a bunch or rather noisy eccentrics. Here’s to hoping the current antics won’t be followed by a ‘final, final final, battle.’
And what’s with those ridiculous plastic hand devices?
Tomorrow it’s just business as usual; you’ll see .
Asbestos in Thailand
Once again, I can’t help noting the irony in the apparent concern of Thai officials regarding contamination of Chinese imported dairy products and their deathly silence of those same officials when it comes to the dangers of asbestos. The following is a brief extract from a recent interview available on the net:
Somkiat believes all forms of asbestos should be banned but that is a decision the Thai Government is not likely to take as long as there is pressure from the business community.
SOMKIAT SIRIRUTTANAPRUK: Yes, yes. We first happen two months ago, I joined the meeting between ministries and we raised this topic in the meeting but, for the employer side of view, they said right now if they change to use another material, the price will increase and it will affect the industry in our country.
In other words health is an issue of apparent concern but only if it doesn’t hurt the commercial interests of the most wealthy Thai citizenry. Make no mistake, Siam Cement and others are not ignorant of the dangers of their product.
Seems like a great issue for you to expose, Jonathan H.
-Mariner
(Thai) Democracy: Crisis and Renewal
Sidh, not that it matters so much, but I believe the first suggestions of a division of the country came from the PAD stage as did suggestions of civil war. That these views are now taken up by some on both sides is interesting.
Nation and Monarchy seem to be in play. And religion as well following the peaceful red shirt rally at Wat Suan Kaew?
(Thai) Democracy: Crisis and Renewal
I’m from the North of Thailand but I’m not pro-taksin, and I don’t fancy having him as a top leader for Northerners at all.
However, I ‘m tempted to respond to the above post. I’m not sure if my following comment will outrage a lot of Thais or not. Well,.. I’ll give it a go though. I don’t think it’s that bad at all if the governing power is more decentralized than it is now.. Bangkok has been asserting firm control over other Thai regions for an age.. and whether u like it or not, local culture , language and way of life have been damaged by this ongoing hegemony.. I think the South is a more extreme case– I don’t think anyone can deny that the current violence and suffering in the South is largely a result of the imposition of BKK norms and standards on Southerners who hold on to different set of religious and cultural belief(s) and practice(s). Of course, maltreatment, bias, prejudice are part of this attempt to assimilate Southerners.
I don’t think ‘national unity’ is unproblematic. In fact, we really need to question this promotion of ‘national unity’ especially if it comes at the expense of regional/local autonomy, or if it requires the use of force to suppress local specificities and difference.
Scenarios for Thailand
I will add ‘War with the UK’ when Thaksin returns as prime minister to the scenarios? I just followed a link from the Nation to this inverview with PMThaksin in Arabian Business:
“Ex-Thai PM hits out at UK”
in
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539193-ex-thai-pm-hits-out-at-uk
This does not bode well for TescoLotus – maybe even the Premier League (a ban on live telecasts?)… How dare the UK government humiliate he-who-could-do-no-wrong?
(on a serious note, this is a sign of PMThaksin losing the plot…)
(Thai) Democracy: Crisis and Renewal
Srithanonchai #8 “Anybody for making the North and the Northeast independent from Bangkok and the South?”
As a Thai, I am totally against it of course. However, I just mentioned that possibility in an answer to Doglover on another topic. It came from a quote from a PPPLamphun MP in Thairath last week (with my rough translation):
“р╕кр╕│р╕Др╕▒р╕Нр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ыр╕▓р╕Б ‘р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕┤р╕У'”
in
http://203.151.217.76/news.php?section=politics&content=112086
р╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕бр╕╡р╕ор╕▓р╕гр╣Мр╕Фр╕Др╕нр╕гр╣Мр╕Бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Др╕┤р╕зр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕Зр╕зр╕Щ р╕Юр╕Зр╕йр╣Мр╕бр╕Ур╕╡ р╕к.р╕к.р╕ер╕│р╕Юр╕╣р╕Щ р╕Юр╕гр╕гр╕Др╕Юр╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щ р╕Чр╕░р╕ер╕╕р╕Бр╕ер╕▓р╕Зр╕Ыр╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╕вр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Хр╕╣р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╕Зр╕Др╕гр╕▓р╕бр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з р╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕зр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕вр╕╕р╕Хр╕┤р╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕Бр╕Ор╕лр╕бр╕▓р╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Др╕Щр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕б
(… There are even more hardcore views from Saguan Pongmanee, PPP Lamphun MP, who without holding back, said that today the door to civil war between Thais is already opened and is getting more real. And if the judiciary process cannot enforce the law on every group…)
р╕Ир╕╕р╕Фр╕кр╕┤р╣Йр╕Щр╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Бр╕Хр╕Бр╣Бр╕вр╕Бр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕и
(… the end point is the division of the country.)
“р╕лр╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕Цр╕╢р╕Зр╕Вр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щр╣Бр╕Ър╣Ир╕Зр╣Бр╕вр╕Бр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕и р╣Ар╕Кр╣Ир╕Щр╣Ар╕Фр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╣Вр╕Лр╣Ар╕зр╕╡р╕вр╕Хр╕вр╕╕р╕Др╕кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Чр╣Йр╕▓р╕вр╣Бр╕Щр╣Ир╕Щр╕нр╕Щ”
(“The worse possibility is the division of the country, surely like the final era of the Soviet Union”)
For me it is impossible because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the overwhelming majority of Thais will be against it. Secondly, there a better chance of returning to a military dictatorship than a division of Thailand…
But, as an academic excercise consistent with the issues raised by this post, I think it is worth entertaining. The questions I pose:
– What kind of democracy would a country under PMThaksin/PPP/UDD, ruling over Thailand’s north and northeast and with the capital at Chiang Mai, turn out to be like?
– What kind of demcracy dominated by the Democrats/PAD in the central and south of Thailand turn out to be?
– They will likely be mortal enemies – what impact would this have on the geo-politics of the region?
What next in Thai politics?
Doglover, if PMThaksin gives in and goes to jail quietly, they’ll be no war: “My people, I have made another honest mistake. This time I will have to go to prison for it. I deserve it as I broke the law. Please wait for me for 2-3 years. I will come back to serve you”. If he goes in fighting and cursing, swearing revenge – the country will have to split as one PPP MP suggested. Thailand will be reduced to the central and southern regions. Thaksin will rule the north and northeast (which one will be more democratic would be another question). Like the partition of Pakistan from India, people will have to choose which country they want to stay in.
The latter scenario is already ongoing, especially if we see exiled fugitive on the run as a form of being in ‘prison’. PMThaksin was running the PPP government from his English ‘prison’ – it is now Dubai (like mafia bosses running the crime syndicate from behind bars)…
I doubt PMThakin’s ‘assassination’ will lead to an all out war, it would more likely translate a big political mandate for politicians close to him who can lay claim to be his ‘heir’. Whoever they are, they’ll likely govern better than the current PPP without his influence and interference.
Doglover, believe me, I’d like to see it beyond the pro-/anti-Thaksin mindset. I just can’t as it is the main show that dominates Thai current political space. It is certainly narrow, sad as it is… It is also violent – which is only Thai and rather hard to explain to HCLau (and most foreigners not familiar with the naunces of the elite and street rules).
(RULE #1: Don’t bother to protest against ANY Thai elite without being armed to the teeth. HCLau would have missed the news a couple of weeks ago of Klongtoey vendors protesting against eviction got a bomb thrown into the protest:
13 injured in explosion near Klong Toey market
in
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/13/national/national_30088331.php)
What next in Thai politics?
KhunHCLau, yes, everyone is behaving above the law – but my argument is quite basic. The prime minister, in any functioning democracy, must be the standard-bearer of the rule of law. It is his clear role under the constitution. In any mature democracy, the issue of accountability is fundamental and the punishment is much more severe for office-holders that break the law – as it should be.
The problem we have today, where everyone disregards the law, stems from PMThaksin’s power abuses and cynical approach to the 1997 Constitution (e.g. the fundamental issue of conflicts of interests in the assets concealment case. Legally, he can’t hold controlling shares in ShinCorp, so he lets his driver and servants hold it instead).
And it is in the rule of law where PMChuan is a superior prime minister to PMThaksin (not in other areas ofcourse – but the rule of law benefits society more in the long term, I argue). MajGenSanan Krajornprasat, then the Democrat’s kingmaker, was convicted of precisely the same case in the late 90s – there was no fight to the death. That should have set a landmark precedent but was totally ignored by PMThaksin…
PMThaksin, as a former prime minister and arguably the person puppeteering PMSomchai, must submit the the rule of law FIRST. PAD leaders will then certainly get their day in the Thai courts…
Regional reaction to Obama
Let’s see how much cheering the Koolaid drinkers are doing six months from now when Obama is neck deep in problems with no viable solutions.
He is surrounding himself with the same morally bankrupt people who previously worked for Clinton. How’s that for “Change”?
If the U.S. suffers a major – or even minor – terrorist attack during Obama’s term in office, the citizenry will be yelling, “Off with his head” and reconsidering their vote.
By the way, a 52% to 48% victory isn’t a mandate by any stretch of the imagination. Almost half the population think he’s a charlatan – it wouldn’t take much to tip the scale back the other way.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
This conversation is continually coming back to mercenaries.
I don’t know of anyone trying to make any money off of the KNLA other than a few reporters who have sold their stories to magazines.
I’m well acquainted with Dan Pedersen, and he’s definitely on the side of the angels. The guy has gone way above what is asked of anyone who is aware of the plight of the long suffering Karens.
As for Nerdah Mya, Rocky gave up a comfortable life in the U.S. to fight for his people in Burma. He could be siting on the beach in California, sipping wine. Instead, he’s in a malaria infested jungle.
I have communicated with several people in the U.S. govt regarding the Karens. They don’t want to be bothered. As Dave Everett pointed out in an earlier post, they don’t want to rock the boat.
The big fear is that the Chinese will intervene in a real big way if the junta in Rangoon feels threatened by outside forces.
The last thing the U.S. wants is the Chinese navy coming over the horizon, or elements of the Chinese army encamped on the Thai border. It’s just that simple.
Put another way – everyone is making money, the oil and gas is flowing freely and the various generals are getting rich. What’s the lives of a few million people?
One last thing. Who are you to tell Americans – or anyone else, for that matter – to not go there and volunteer to fight?
If a guy weighs the pros and cons of going there, it isn’t your concern. If the KNLA or the SSA doesn’t want them, that’s for them to say, and definitely not you.
I say more power to anyone who is willing to risk his/her life in the advancement of a good cause.
And before you reply that you’ve spoken to this guy, or that guy, let me tell you that so have I. They welcome the help, with the exception of the “war tourists” and wannabees. They feel proud that people are willing to come in and share the same hardships and dangers as themselves.
I sure hope you aren’t a missionary. I really, REALLY hate those bastards.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
I am an American and was with Daniel Pedersen and Nerdah Mya in July 08. I learned 2 things.
#1 …The KNLA does not need mercenary foreign fighters. They have thousands of brave, willing and highly motivated potential Karen fighters waiting to be handed a functional M-16. They need functional weapons and ammo. The # of Karen soldiers = # of functional weapons.
#2…The Karen need Western, especially US media attention. The largest export in the US is now “the entertainment ” industry. If the genocide in Burma is ever broadly depicted in the US news, movie, music etc industry, the international political pressure generated would be formidable and would likely lead to the castration of the the Myanmar government/ SPDC , as a newly image conscious , tourist friendly, China, and Thailand would likely shrink from the international embarrassment and coerce its evil ally to at least moderate its brutal tactics .
Long live Nerdah Mya and Daniel Pedersen. Two true heros of humanity keeping hope alive for their Karen brothers and sisters.
Scenarios for Thailand
And as in all political scenarios in Thailand, not a single one will be even remotely in the wider public interest. Thailand’s royalist elite really only has itself to blame. In a system where one cannot say anything even remotely critical of the royal family or the other mafia who run this country, politics has degenerated into an absurd theater of vacuous mob violence bankrolled by the different power factions. A political system without a viable left-wing (or even a viable midfield) is going nowhere.
The King Never Smiles?
Yes . your Book I have read it and it was true. You only one who’s tell the true. I am a real thai 100% from Ayutaya
Regional reaction to Obama
I recently recieved this email from someone in Singapore.
“Was incredible how excited people here were over the recent elections (all rooting for Obama), more so than over our own (since a large percentage of eligible voters don’t get to vote anyway). Singaporeans in the US were sending SMSes & emails back to family & friends in Singapore as the results unfolded. & the Americans working in my institute were walking through the labs yelling that Obama had won. A lot of work for the new admin to do & mess to clear…but still, thank you from this part of the world.”
Thanong’s perspective on the future
NRNYS seems correct that Thanong was not one of those specifically investigated. In the meantime, I have been doing a bit of searching. Here’s some added detail, based on (http://www.seapabkk.org/news/thailand/20020320.html).
AMLO went after more at the Nation. This was the subject of a number of reports in 2002.
One report , mostly based on leaks via the Democrats, stated: “Nation Group editor Suthichai Yoon and his son, Prabda, group editor Thepchai Yong and senior editor Sopon Onkgara…” in one report and “…Amlo had ordered 17 banks to send to the agency the financial statements of 35 journalists and their family members…” in another. In one report it is stated that, in total, AMLO was conducting “… financial checks on some of the 247 targetted individuals…”. At one stage Thaksin himself claimed that he had been investigated by AMLO. Other names on the list were reportedly Capital Nomura Securities and Merrill Lynch.
Yet another report says this: “The list included businessmen Somsak Leesawattrakul, Veena Cherdboonchart, Narong Chokewattana and Chumpol Pornprapa; Gen Sunthorn Kongsompong, late former supreme commander, his wife Khunying Orachorn and his common-law wife, Ampapan; former navy chief Prapat Krissanachan; Phetchabun senator Prasong Kositanond and academic Nath Bhamarapravati. American citizen Peter Jensen, former husband of Princess Ubonrat, was also on the list.” Note the last one!
AMLO also invetigated a bunch of NGO activists. Thaksin as PM was the chair of AMLO.
More broadly, readers might find this interesting: http://www.transparency.org/content/download/16360/218980/file/NIS_Thailand_2006%5B1%5D.pdf
What happened on 7/10/2008?
Portman #96: Thanks Portman. As you say, stories like this – and I have quite a stock of them – must be classed as ‘hearsay.’ This doesn’t mean they aren’t true, of course. It just means they can’t be quoted with real credibility. Mai pen rai!
Michelle Tan #97: Thank you so much. Please do send me the pdf.
michaelinseaATgmail.com (delete AT, & replace with @)
Thanong’s perspective on the future
Actually it was Suthichai Yoon who was targetted for investigation by AMLO during Thaksin era. But The Nation columnists like Suthichai, Thanong, Sophon, Tulsatit, Thepchai (Suthichai’s brother at PBS tv station) etc share a common hatred against Thaksin and these people have lost their journalistic perspectives and indulge in personal vendetta. One journalist from this newspaper who remains objective is Pravit and I once attended his talk at the FCCT and you can clearly see what kind of person he is. Also, try to read “Chang Noi” column at the Nation and one can see the balance in its analysis.