Now (Thitsaphout Than Shwe) is trying to stifle free speech on the internet. Don’t worry Chuck or anyone else soon D.V.B should be back.
To anyone who is interested Thitsaphout is a Burmese word when translated into English is traitor
Hey I am having problems getting back on the website can anyone help me out here. By the way I am a supporter of the rebels cause and I am a former soldier Myself. Hooah.
I did attend the first conference and will be attending/presenting at the next one this December. Since the first conference I’ve published a couple of articles on Buddhist Economics as part of the reasearch platform group, I am currently working on my second book, “Pathways to a Mindful Economy.” I was hoping to attend the “Buddhism in the Age of Consumerism” conference but am unable to connect with anyone. Any suggestions?
Michael #31: I thought that evaluating something with reason (criticism) is a different cognitive operation from dissecting something in order to discover its operational principles (analysis), although both involve questioning. Insofar as critical thinking is assumed by a number of Thai educators to be at the core of western scientific-technological performance and thus should be emultated in order to catch up, it might therefore well fail. Just a try.
Human Rights Watch issues statement to condemn government for failing to protect its citizen’s basic rights and recognizes the peaceful nature of PAD protests (While NM Blogger issues condemnation for the creation of a PAD Martyr – what a striking contrast!).
Some highlights:
….
“Thai authorities have failed to protect their citizens’ basic right to peaceful assembly,” said Elaine Pearson, deputy Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “By allowing pro-government thugs free rein to unleash violence, the authorities are putting Thailand’s fragile democracy at risk. Officials should investigate these attacks and hold to account those responsible for the violence, as well as any officials who failed to stop it.”
…..
“News footage and eyewitness accounts show that local authorities made no effort to stop the violence. Some 500 police and district defense volunteers at the rally did not try to perform their duties – even when thugs beat PAD supporters nearly to death right in front of them. And they made no attempt to arrest those who destroyed property at the rally. ”
…..
“On at least 11 occasions in Bangkok, Udorn Thani, Sakol Nakhon, Chiang Mai, Sri Saket, Chiang Rai, Mahasarakham, and Buriram provinces, pro-government groups that are often associated with members of parliament from the ruling party have attacked PAD supporters, causing scores of injuries and damaging public property. In one instance, at a PAD rally in Mahasarakham province on July 23, former senator Karun Sai-Ngarm was on the stage when he was hit in the face with a marble from a slingshot and had to be rushed to hospital.
…..
To date Thai authorities have failed to take action against those responsible for the attacks. In some cases, local police and provincial governors have promised to investigate the attacks and arrest those responsible but there is no evidence that this has occurred.
….
“The government of Prime Minister Samak should uphold the right to peaceful assembly as a basic component of democracy guaranteed in the Thai Constitution,” said Pearson. “
First time I’ve come across this blog and it’s good to find something sane in the general hubbub of Thai blogs.
I wrote a piece for the UK national newspaper, the Independent on Sunday, about the murders of British nationals in Thailand. Roughly, from 2003 to 2006, if you take out international terrorism, 10% of all murders of Brits abroad were in Thailand. Not all were committed by Thais and not all of the victims were crims or involved in such activity. Considering that Thailand attracts roughly 0.8% of all British travel abroad the murder rate is pretty high. The British Embassy admitted that the murder rate of Brit ex-pats per capita was equivalent to the local rate for Thais, which from the stats I saw, is almost 7times higher than in the UK.
Funnily enough, when I wrote the piece, many of my Thai friends were encouraging me to do so. Most ex-pats I knew were very cautious and many didn’t want to go on the record despite first hand knowledge of violence in Thai society. Also, my contacts in the Thai govt were also reasonably open – the British Embassy in Bangkok were openly hostile to me. The business interests of Tescos has been suggested as one possible reason for the lack of official UK openness on the dangers of travel for Brits in Thailand.
When the piece was published it attracted a lot of very negative comment in the Thai blogosphere – although these comments were entirely from ex-pats. Strange.
I spend a lot of time in Thailand and have never had much of a problem – once a taxi driver threatened to shoot me over 35baht fare but thats about it. However, once you get to know the place, the undercurrent of violence is palpable.
In London, were my home is, I don’t have much trouble either – though I am very aware of ALL the dangers here, having been brought up and raised here. In Thailand, it takes time to get past the smiles, the relaxed vibe and how arcane everything is before you can judge what is really happening.
Anyone who wants to read the piece can see it here – please be advised it is for a mainstream UK audience who will have little knowledge of Thailand beyond holidays and prostitution. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/with-so-many-britons-murdered-in-thailand-why-does-our-government-not-warn-of-the-dangers-faced-there-769640.html
Srithanonchai #28: Perhaps you could tell us what is so important, in the context of this discussion, in the distinction between critical thinking and analytical thinking that the confusion of one with the other makes you “somewhat annoyed.”
it’s dumb to justify a violent action as a reaction against another
that’s true. Also, I don’t remember any group of PADs ever storming into a crowd of Reds, attacking them violently with weapons and burning their property.
So, it seems manning sawwiner is justifying violent (and deadly)action as a reaction against airing a different viewpoint.
so, I do pray the PADs will remain committed to non-violence despite the violent onslaughts and terror of the barbaric Reds. An eye for an eye would make Thailand blind indeed.
It’s for the PAD to reassess their repugnant action. Quid pro quo, isn’t it?
I can’t believe this comment.
Eye for an eye? The Bible doesn’t call for that, and it’s dumb to justify a violent action as a reaction against another.
That the PAD have gone off the deep end several times is apparent. I do not adhere to the waving the yellow flag business or appointing 70% of representatives and electing only 30%, having the Army step in again, etc.
I guess there is a dearth of legitimate and ethical talent here in Thailand on all sides, PAD et. al. The media basically sucks, and combined with selfish political interests and corrupt social values (not to say this is not the problem in the USA as well), things won’t work out very constructively for the foreseeable future. Many good people are trying but are fighting wind-fed fires of irrationality – pro, neutral and anti-royalist – from extremists of all persuasions.
The lese majeste law, as it stands, could not exist without a social need for it. That need is corrupt and unwavering at the same time, a sort of addiction to a wrongful dogma that harms more than it protects.
The divisiveness that is seen in Thai society is hardly recognized, I believe, for what it truly is on the one hand, or what it should truly be on the other. Thai people have got to stop charging one another for not being Thai because of different beliefs, speech and practices. The PAD leadership uses this kind of rationale in its propaganda, as well as does the Household and other agencies and groups here. The so-called ruling elite don’t want to lose their seats, and taking advantage of ignorance, hatred and knee-jerk reactionaries is only one technique available to them. And who is the victim? You!
I also believe that the Thai intellectual/academic community needs to get its act together, with more unification out of professional qualifications (not just writing but accomplishments) rather than trying to get degrees just because they look good. Dr. Chalerm? A big laugh, as well as many other hundreds of current day Ph.D. and MBA holders in Thailand (and abroad) who spout nonsense and then ask that the masses accept it.
Thais don’t need to look Thai to be Thai. Thais don’t need to be Buddhist to be Thai. Thais don’t even need to be born in Thailand to be Thai. Above all this, these people who are Thai but don’t look like, sound like or act like Thais have every right to absence of ignorant and hurtful accusations of not being Thai. I am sick of Thais saying, for example, “Oh, so you aren’t Thai?” when faced with a Thai who holds a different viewpoint or happens to be of Indian, Chinese, Cambodia, American, British or what-not ancestry. Gils Ungpakorn, I believe, was shouted at by the PAD because he happened to say he was proud of his British ancestry.
Thus the conflict in Thailand, as exemplified by the violent clash in Udorn and Buriram, and many other places in Thailand, is a battle between those who would speak and those who would keep them from doing so. The last group are not patriots, nor do they love their king as they claim. When you love a person or principle. you yourself practice those principles. End of lecture.
Frank, thanks for the wonderful article which exposes the true nature of these Thaksin supporters, which I have no doubt would apply to the other provinces also which have formed local Barbaric Red Armies.
You point out a key difference between PAD and the pro-Thaksin Reds well here:
Both the PAD and anti-PAD supporters were carrying national flags and swearing national allegiance, but only one side was peaceful – the PAD
I have been very impressed with PAD’s commitment to non-violence from the. Kuson had made the observation in the “Time to go home” thread, that she had noticed from their behaviour in Bangkok that the pro-Thaksins were by nature very violent, whereas the PAD protesters are not the violent type. Throughout all these many months of protests, I think she has been proven correct.
Right in the early days, the pro-Thaksins have shown their inclination towards barbarism. They would throw faeces, fermented fish, bags of urine, shoot slingshots, hurl rocks, bottles, at the PAD protesters. All along, the PADs have also complained about police indifference to this harrassment.
The intolerance for differences of view by the pro-Thaksins has now culminated into unforgivable, organized violence. This organized violence is no doubt a concerted effort of the TRT/PPP party throughout all their stronghold provinces. It just shows the real insecurities that they have, ie. what if our electorate start asking questions like, why are so many PADs protesting against Thaksin/PPP? Are the PAD’s claims about TRT/PPP criminality and corruption true?
Those kinds of questions are of course the ones the TRT/PPP have to ensure that the voters in their stronghold provinces do not ask.
They are so afraid, that it has become necessary to use violence and brutality to silence the critics. Of course, here in NM where people are less barbaric, these insecurities of the Thaksinites manifests itself in name-calling, such as ‘PADs are royalists!” “PADs are crazy nationalists!” “PADs are militarists!”
It is shocking to see the special treatment that the Barbaric Red Army is getting from these NM Thaksinites, ie. they continue to point the finger at the failings of the PAD to divert attention away from the unforgivable brutality of the Barbaric Red Armies. To be honest, I am not surprised though and have come to expect no better than this from the NM Thaksinites.
Apart from being so desparately afraid as to have to resort to violence in order to silence critics, I also suspect that Thaksin and his Henchmen have a grander plan with the new policy of organized brutality. I have mentioned this on another thread already, and would like to hear what others have to say (the Thaksinites of course can continue to blame the PAD for everything as usual, it is quite amusing really).
Calls for invoking the National Security Act or for the Army chief to intervene have only been too predictable
must have similarly been predictable to Thaksin and his TRT/PPP mafia who funded, organized and supported the various Barbaric Red Armies in several TRT/PPP stronghold provinces.
oh, so I suppose these 700 or so people in Udon spontaneously converged without prior appointment from different locations of the city, and picked up random weapons along the way that happen to be lying about around town (because in Udon, people like to leave machetes, knives, iron bars, clubs, etc. lying around in the streets – u never knew that right?) and decided to go beat the living daylights out of the PADs.
Frank’s assessment seems to be right, so I would say THESE 700 BARBARIC REDS DID EXACTLY WHAT THE PRO-THAKSIN ORGANIZERS AND FUNDERS WANTED THEM TO DO. The organizers obviously incited hatred into the Reds, provided them with weapons and planned the attack. They must have also “talked” to the police about how to (or more accurately how not to) keep the peace that day.
The Udorn Reds was led by brother of powerful local PPP politician, and Frank notes that Kwanchai’s connections to TRT are well known. So my assumption would be these 700 barbaric Reds did EXACTLY WHAT THAKSIN WANTED THEM TO DO. (would the minions dare do anything that would anger Big Boss? so I would safely assume the pro-Thaksin organizers did all of this with full consent from Big Boss, otherwise they just wouldn’t dare)
This applies to other pro-Thaksin Reds in the other provinces who have been violently assaulting PAD. It is not difficult to see that there is a concerted effort by powerful pro-Thaksin groups in the TRT/PPP stronghold provinces to escalate the violence, and such a concerted effort must have been known to Big Boss and Core Henchmens. So again, I can only assume the Barbaric Red Army did exactly what Big Boss wanted. i.e. If Big Boss did not want it, why would he allow these massive barbaric Red Armies to be funded and organized by his minions all around the various TRT/PPP stronghold provinces??
It takes a lot of time, effort and money to organize these things you know, and time, effort and (especially) money are always spent for a purpose.
Sorry to be so one-sided once again. But since your #2 only mentions the PAD, I thought I’d balance things out by only mentioning Thaksin in this reply.
Fair game?
By the way, while these 700 Barbaric Reds were “too stupid and too emotional to see that they do exactly what the PAD wanted them to do”, I guess they were at least smart enough to have done one thing right, ie. vote for TRT/PPP at the polls.
What a gripping tale, Hla Oo, and thanks for sharing it. A good plug too. I’ll look forward to a signed copy, shall I?
Despite a very similar history shared by our fathers, compared to yours my life would bore you to tears. I completely understand your old man refusing you permission to join the enemy however benevolent they might have been to his family after he had ‘entered the light’. Lucky you got away with as much as you did thanks to your old man. You’d have been disappeared quite easily like so many others from nameless families.
You never leave behind a certain sense of loyalty and camaraderie to the army or to those whom you’ve fought with shoulder to shoulder, do you? Not unless you’ve looked down the barrel of the gun turned back on and pointing at you like your father did. And it’s not just ‘traitors’ but the entire nation on the receiving end eventually and inevitably for daring to challenge their rule.
Well, even you seem to believe the army is the only group holding the Union together. They’ve done a good job instilling this in the head of the youngest recruit onwards, haven’t they? So they can hang on to power forever making the same old tired excuse over and over again.
They really believe all the peoples of Burma owe it to them for eternity just because your father and mine, their generation, had fought the colonialists and then the Japanese fascists so you and I could be born free men. Alas, only to be enslaved by our own kind.
Have you also been struck by the irony that we in turn have come back to slave for the white man of our own free will even if circumstances not of our own making have driven us to it?
Were you by any chance born at Payadaung Botet? Not Thanmani Maung Maung’s boy? Why don’t you give us a link to your story? I’d love to read it. And good luck with the book deal. There might even be a film next.
And these people are too stupid and emotional to see that they do exactly what the PAD wanted them to do… Calls for invoking the National Security Act or for the Army chief to intervene have only been too predictable.
What is said about the “Self-Sufficient Economy”, there is still a grain of truth that the FUTURE of the humanity lies at the base, i.e. agriculture as monarch or pauper no matter where they have reached in the mad-race of globalization, still eat food. Food was eaten in the past, present and the people in future also will only eat food and not precious metals. Everything has undergone sea-change but ultimately “Food and food alone will prevail”, the rest will vanish into oblivion. Even today “Self-Sufficient Economy” holds a bright future for the coming generations. If we don’t protect environment and food security, humanity will soon disappear from this planet Earth. We have sinned against the Mother Earth and consequently we have witnessed the fury of nature in the form of Tsunami and Earth Quakes. Let us learn from the tribals who have still retained their wisdom ‘intact’.
I don’t pretend to understand too much about the workings of contemporary Thai politics, but I’m very confused by this debate – all sides of it. It appears, on the face of it, that everyone is debating not what constitutes democracy (or whatever positive word you would like to use), but who should be in charge.
Rule of lords indeed. If that’s the extent of serious political debate in Thailand, it’s much worse than I’d imagined.
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Denying the Democratic Voice of Burma
Now (Thitsaphout Than Shwe) is trying to stifle free speech on the internet. Don’t worry Chuck or anyone else soon D.V.B should be back.
To anyone who is interested Thitsaphout is a Burmese word when translated into English is traitor
Denying the Democratic Voice of Burma
Hey I am having problems getting back on the website can anyone help me out here. By the way I am a supporter of the rebels cause and I am a former soldier Myself. Hooah.
“Buddhism in the Age of Consumerism” conference at Mahidol
I did attend the first conference and will be attending/presenting at the next one this December. Since the first conference I’ve published a couple of articles on Buddhist Economics as part of the reasearch platform group, I am currently working on my second book, “Pathways to a Mindful Economy.” I was hoping to attend the “Buddhism in the Age of Consumerism” conference but am unable to connect with anyone. Any suggestions?
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
Michael #31: I thought that evaluating something with reason (criticism) is a different cognitive operation from dissecting something in order to discover its operational principles (analysis), although both involve questioning. Insofar as critical thinking is assumed by a number of Thai educators to be at the core of western scientific-technological performance and thus should be emultated in order to catch up, it might therefore well fail. Just a try.
Thuggery and madness
Human Rights Watch issues statement to condemn government for failing to protect its citizen’s basic rights and recognizes the peaceful nature of PAD protests (While NM Blogger issues condemnation for the creation of a PAD Martyr – what a striking contrast!).
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/07/26/thaila19473.htm
Some highlights:
….
“Thai authorities have failed to protect their citizens’ basic right to peaceful assembly,” said Elaine Pearson, deputy Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “By allowing pro-government thugs free rein to unleash violence, the authorities are putting Thailand’s fragile democracy at risk. Officials should investigate these attacks and hold to account those responsible for the violence, as well as any officials who failed to stop it.”
…..
“News footage and eyewitness accounts show that local authorities made no effort to stop the violence. Some 500 police and district defense volunteers at the rally did not try to perform their duties – even when thugs beat PAD supporters nearly to death right in front of them. And they made no attempt to arrest those who destroyed property at the rally. ”
…..
“On at least 11 occasions in Bangkok, Udorn Thani, Sakol Nakhon, Chiang Mai, Sri Saket, Chiang Rai, Mahasarakham, and Buriram provinces, pro-government groups that are often associated with members of parliament from the ruling party have attacked PAD supporters, causing scores of injuries and damaging public property. In one instance, at a PAD rally in Mahasarakham province on July 23, former senator Karun Sai-Ngarm was on the stage when he was hit in the face with a marble from a slingshot and had to be rushed to hospital.
…..
To date Thai authorities have failed to take action against those responsible for the attacks. In some cases, local police and provincial governors have promised to investigate the attacks and arrest those responsible but there is no evidence that this has occurred.
….
“The government of Prime Minister Samak should uphold the right to peaceful assembly as a basic component of democracy guaranteed in the Thai Constitution,” said Pearson. “
A murderous mix of impunity
First time I’ve come across this blog and it’s good to find something sane in the general hubbub of Thai blogs.
I wrote a piece for the UK national newspaper, the Independent on Sunday, about the murders of British nationals in Thailand. Roughly, from 2003 to 2006, if you take out international terrorism, 10% of all murders of Brits abroad were in Thailand. Not all were committed by Thais and not all of the victims were crims or involved in such activity. Considering that Thailand attracts roughly 0.8% of all British travel abroad the murder rate is pretty high. The British Embassy admitted that the murder rate of Brit ex-pats per capita was equivalent to the local rate for Thais, which from the stats I saw, is almost 7times higher than in the UK.
Funnily enough, when I wrote the piece, many of my Thai friends were encouraging me to do so. Most ex-pats I knew were very cautious and many didn’t want to go on the record despite first hand knowledge of violence in Thai society. Also, my contacts in the Thai govt were also reasonably open – the British Embassy in Bangkok were openly hostile to me. The business interests of Tescos has been suggested as one possible reason for the lack of official UK openness on the dangers of travel for Brits in Thailand.
When the piece was published it attracted a lot of very negative comment in the Thai blogosphere – although these comments were entirely from ex-pats. Strange.
I spend a lot of time in Thailand and have never had much of a problem – once a taxi driver threatened to shoot me over 35baht fare but thats about it. However, once you get to know the place, the undercurrent of violence is palpable.
In London, were my home is, I don’t have much trouble either – though I am very aware of ALL the dangers here, having been brought up and raised here. In Thailand, it takes time to get past the smiles, the relaxed vibe and how arcane everything is before you can judge what is really happening.
Anyone who wants to read the piece can see it here – please be advised it is for a mainstream UK audience who will have little knowledge of Thailand beyond holidays and prostitution.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/with-so-many-britons-murdered-in-thailand-why-does-our-government-not-warn-of-the-dangers-faced-there-769640.html
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
Srithanonchai #28: Perhaps you could tell us what is so important, in the context of this discussion, in the distinction between critical thinking and analytical thinking that the confusion of one with the other makes you “somewhat annoyed.”
Thuggery and madness
Re #1 and #7
it’s dumb to justify a violent action as a reaction against another
that’s true. Also, I don’t remember any group of PADs ever storming into a crowd of Reds, attacking them violently with weapons and burning their property.
So, it seems manning sawwiner is justifying violent (and deadly)action as a reaction against airing a different viewpoint.
so, I do pray the PADs will remain committed to non-violence despite the violent onslaughts and terror of the barbaric Reds. An eye for an eye would make Thailand blind indeed.
Thuggery and madness
manning sawwinner // Jul 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm
It’s for the PAD to reassess their repugnant action. Quid pro quo, isn’t it?
I can’t believe this comment.
Eye for an eye? The Bible doesn’t call for that, and it’s dumb to justify a violent action as a reaction against another.
Thuggery and madness
27 July 2007
That the PAD have gone off the deep end several times is apparent. I do not adhere to the waving the yellow flag business or appointing 70% of representatives and electing only 30%, having the Army step in again, etc.
I guess there is a dearth of legitimate and ethical talent here in Thailand on all sides, PAD et. al. The media basically sucks, and combined with selfish political interests and corrupt social values (not to say this is not the problem in the USA as well), things won’t work out very constructively for the foreseeable future. Many good people are trying but are fighting wind-fed fires of irrationality – pro, neutral and anti-royalist – from extremists of all persuasions.
The lese majeste law, as it stands, could not exist without a social need for it. That need is corrupt and unwavering at the same time, a sort of addiction to a wrongful dogma that harms more than it protects.
The divisiveness that is seen in Thai society is hardly recognized, I believe, for what it truly is on the one hand, or what it should truly be on the other. Thai people have got to stop charging one another for not being Thai because of different beliefs, speech and practices. The PAD leadership uses this kind of rationale in its propaganda, as well as does the Household and other agencies and groups here. The so-called ruling elite don’t want to lose their seats, and taking advantage of ignorance, hatred and knee-jerk reactionaries is only one technique available to them. And who is the victim? You!
I also believe that the Thai intellectual/academic community needs to get its act together, with more unification out of professional qualifications (not just writing but accomplishments) rather than trying to get degrees just because they look good. Dr. Chalerm? A big laugh, as well as many other hundreds of current day Ph.D. and MBA holders in Thailand (and abroad) who spout nonsense and then ask that the masses accept it.
Thais don’t need to look Thai to be Thai. Thais don’t need to be Buddhist to be Thai. Thais don’t even need to be born in Thailand to be Thai. Above all this, these people who are Thai but don’t look like, sound like or act like Thais have every right to absence of ignorant and hurtful accusations of not being Thai. I am sick of Thais saying, for example, “Oh, so you aren’t Thai?” when faced with a Thai who holds a different viewpoint or happens to be of Indian, Chinese, Cambodia, American, British or what-not ancestry. Gils Ungpakorn, I believe, was shouted at by the PAD because he happened to say he was proud of his British ancestry.
Thus the conflict in Thailand, as exemplified by the violent clash in Udorn and Buriram, and many other places in Thailand, is a battle between those who would speak and those who would keep them from doing so. The last group are not patriots, nor do they love their king as they claim. When you love a person or principle. you yourself practice those principles. End of lecture.
Ji Ungpakorn on the “carnival of reaction”
Re# 51
Frank, thanks for the wonderful article which exposes the true nature of these Thaksin supporters, which I have no doubt would apply to the other provinces also which have formed local Barbaric Red Armies.
You point out a key difference between PAD and the pro-Thaksin Reds well here:
Both the PAD and anti-PAD supporters were carrying national flags and swearing national allegiance, but only one side was peaceful – the PAD
I have been very impressed with PAD’s commitment to non-violence from the. Kuson had made the observation in the “Time to go home” thread, that she had noticed from their behaviour in Bangkok that the pro-Thaksins were by nature very violent, whereas the PAD protesters are not the violent type. Throughout all these many months of protests, I think she has been proven correct.
Right in the early days, the pro-Thaksins have shown their inclination towards barbarism. They would throw faeces, fermented fish, bags of urine, shoot slingshots, hurl rocks, bottles, at the PAD protesters. All along, the PADs have also complained about police indifference to this harrassment.
The intolerance for differences of view by the pro-Thaksins has now culminated into unforgivable, organized violence. This organized violence is no doubt a concerted effort of the TRT/PPP party throughout all their stronghold provinces. It just shows the real insecurities that they have, ie. what if our electorate start asking questions like, why are so many PADs protesting against Thaksin/PPP? Are the PAD’s claims about TRT/PPP criminality and corruption true?
Those kinds of questions are of course the ones the TRT/PPP have to ensure that the voters in their stronghold provinces do not ask.
They are so afraid, that it has become necessary to use violence and brutality to silence the critics. Of course, here in NM where people are less barbaric, these insecurities of the Thaksinites manifests itself in name-calling, such as ‘PADs are royalists!” “PADs are crazy nationalists!” “PADs are militarists!”
It is shocking to see the special treatment that the Barbaric Red Army is getting from these NM Thaksinites, ie. they continue to point the finger at the failings of the PAD to divert attention away from the unforgivable brutality of the Barbaric Red Armies. To be honest, I am not surprised though and have come to expect no better than this from the NM Thaksinites.
Apart from being so desparately afraid as to have to resort to violence in order to silence critics, I also suspect that Thaksin and his Henchmen have a grander plan with the new policy of organized brutality. I have mentioned this on another thread already, and would like to hear what others have to say (the Thaksinites of course can continue to blame the PAD for everything as usual, it is quite amusing really).
Thuggery and madness
btw,
Calls for invoking the National Security Act or for the Army chief to intervene have only been too predictable
must have similarly been predictable to Thaksin and his TRT/PPP mafia who funded, organized and supported the various Barbaric Red Armies in several TRT/PPP stronghold provinces.
Thuggery and madness
Re #2
oh, so I suppose these 700 or so people in Udon spontaneously converged without prior appointment from different locations of the city, and picked up random weapons along the way that happen to be lying about around town (because in Udon, people like to leave machetes, knives, iron bars, clubs, etc. lying around in the streets – u never knew that right?) and decided to go beat the living daylights out of the PADs.
OR , were these people a well-organized, well funded group, who had been preparing this attack well in advance of the peaceful PAD rally?
see, Frank’s commentary here:
http://www.upiasiaonline.com/Politics/2008/07/25/fascism_thai_style/3854/
Frank’s assessment seems to be right, so I would say THESE 700 BARBARIC REDS DID EXACTLY WHAT THE PRO-THAKSIN ORGANIZERS AND FUNDERS WANTED THEM TO DO. The organizers obviously incited hatred into the Reds, provided them with weapons and planned the attack. They must have also “talked” to the police about how to (or more accurately how not to) keep the peace that day.
The Udorn Reds was led by brother of powerful local PPP politician, and Frank notes that Kwanchai’s connections to TRT are well known. So my assumption would be these 700 barbaric Reds did EXACTLY WHAT THAKSIN WANTED THEM TO DO. (would the minions dare do anything that would anger Big Boss? so I would safely assume the pro-Thaksin organizers did all of this with full consent from Big Boss, otherwise they just wouldn’t dare)
This applies to other pro-Thaksin Reds in the other provinces who have been violently assaulting PAD. It is not difficult to see that there is a concerted effort by powerful pro-Thaksin groups in the TRT/PPP stronghold provinces to escalate the violence, and such a concerted effort must have been known to Big Boss and Core Henchmens. So again, I can only assume the Barbaric Red Army did exactly what Big Boss wanted. i.e. If Big Boss did not want it, why would he allow these massive barbaric Red Armies to be funded and organized by his minions all around the various TRT/PPP stronghold provinces??
It takes a lot of time, effort and money to organize these things you know, and time, effort and (especially) money are always spent for a purpose.
Sorry to be so one-sided once again. But since your #2 only mentions the PAD, I thought I’d balance things out by only mentioning Thaksin in this reply.
Fair game?
By the way, while these 700 Barbaric Reds were “too stupid and too emotional to see that they do exactly what the PAD wanted them to do”, I guess they were at least smart enough to have done one thing right, ie. vote for TRT/PPP at the polls.
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
What a gripping tale, Hla Oo, and thanks for sharing it. A good plug too. I’ll look forward to a signed copy, shall I?
Despite a very similar history shared by our fathers, compared to yours my life would bore you to tears. I completely understand your old man refusing you permission to join the enemy however benevolent they might have been to his family after he had ‘entered the light’. Lucky you got away with as much as you did thanks to your old man. You’d have been disappeared quite easily like so many others from nameless families.
You never leave behind a certain sense of loyalty and camaraderie to the army or to those whom you’ve fought with shoulder to shoulder, do you? Not unless you’ve looked down the barrel of the gun turned back on and pointing at you like your father did. And it’s not just ‘traitors’ but the entire nation on the receiving end eventually and inevitably for daring to challenge their rule.
Well, even you seem to believe the army is the only group holding the Union together. They’ve done a good job instilling this in the head of the youngest recruit onwards, haven’t they? So they can hang on to power forever making the same old tired excuse over and over again.
They really believe all the peoples of Burma owe it to them for eternity just because your father and mine, their generation, had fought the colonialists and then the Japanese fascists so you and I could be born free men. Alas, only to be enslaved by our own kind.
Have you also been struck by the irony that we in turn have come back to slave for the white man of our own free will even if circumstances not of our own making have driven us to it?
Were you by any chance born at Payadaung Botet? Not Thanmani Maung Maung’s boy? Why don’t you give us a link to your story? I’d love to read it. And good luck with the book deal. There might even be a film next.
Thuggery and madness
Role of the monarchy in past political events in Thailand?
See http://en.veropedia.com/a/Bhumibol_Adulyadej
Thuggery and madness
And these people are too stupid and emotional to see that they do exactly what the PAD wanted them to do… Calls for invoking the National Security Act or for the Army chief to intervene have only been too predictable.
Time to go home
Karmablues: You are really a woolly cuty! 🙂 Just don’t be too proud of it…
Ji Ungpakorn on the “carnival of reaction”
See Fascism Thai Style here…
http://www.upiasiaonline.com/Politics/2008/07/25/fascism_thai_style/3854/
Self-sufficient Pyramid Scheme
What is said about the “Self-Sufficient Economy”, there is still a grain of truth that the FUTURE of the humanity lies at the base, i.e. agriculture as monarch or pauper no matter where they have reached in the mad-race of globalization, still eat food. Food was eaten in the past, present and the people in future also will only eat food and not precious metals. Everything has undergone sea-change but ultimately “Food and food alone will prevail”, the rest will vanish into oblivion. Even today “Self-Sufficient Economy” holds a bright future for the coming generations. If we don’t protect environment and food security, humanity will soon disappear from this planet Earth. We have sinned against the Mother Earth and consequently we have witnessed the fury of nature in the form of Tsunami and Earth Quakes. Let us learn from the tribals who have still retained their wisdom ‘intact’.
Bangkok Post’s brave attack on the patronage system!
I don’t pretend to understand too much about the workings of contemporary Thai politics, but I’m very confused by this debate – all sides of it. It appears, on the face of it, that everyone is debating not what constitutes democracy (or whatever positive word you would like to use), but who should be in charge.
Rule of lords indeed. If that’s the extent of serious political debate in Thailand, it’s much worse than I’d imagined.