Sidh: “Why can’t pro-Thaksin groups just set up another stage on the other side of town?”
A very sensible suggestion, contrasted with the following:
R N England: “The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!
Do you live on a small farm? Is there something on your farm that you never thought of using to make extra income? Well, I am going to give you some ideas on how to take your small farm and monetize it. Here are a few examples of how I make money on my farm. After reading this article, I have no doubt that you will be making extra income from something that you enjoy doing.
Do you have chickens? Ever thought about selling farm fresh eggs? My neighbors are always putting in an order for farm fresh eggs. I sell an average of 20 dozen per week at $2.25 per dozen! I started out with one customer, and by word of mouth, I now have about 15 weekly customers and that number continues to grow. I now need to increase my laying hens.
Do you have a small garden? Ever think about selling farm fresh produce? I sell fresh tomatoes, potatoes, cabbage, squash, cucumbers and much more. I do this right from my farm. I have no need to go to the farmers market. Once you build a good reputation with your neighbors, the word gets out and you will have more demand then you can supply. Everyone wants fresh farm products and really do want to support their local farmers. It’s a win-win solution for everyone.
Do you have a milk cow? Sell fresh farm milk to your neighbors! Or maybe you have plenty of timber for firewood? There are many ways to optimize your small farm and learn how to live a more self sufficient healthy lifestyle at the same time.
I could keep going, but I think you get the point. All of these hobbies can really add up and everyone benefits.
Bangkokpost has reported that Kwanchai is an official (equivalent to C-8 level) attached to the PM’s Secretariat Office who was approved by Cabinet in May 2008.
You ask: Is it true that there wasn’t a death in Udon? Was this statement about a death really an attempt by Chamlong to stir more violence along with his reported claim that there is an assassination plot against Sondhi Lim? Did the press report this claim without investigate the claim before rushing to print?
I ask: Is it true that the corpse of the man who was killed had been taken away and destroyed by police? Was the indifference shown by PM Samak and Chalerm to the violent incident an attempt to stir angry reaction by the PAD along with the foot-dragging by police in taking action against the perpetrators? Did the officials deny that there were no deaths in Udon without investigating whether a corpse had been destroyed as many has claimed?
So I guess we can both agree that many questions can be asked.
it does not make me overlook that the PAD obviously had a concious strategy of provoking clashes in PPP strongholds
but you seem to be overlooking the fact that there is a conscious strategy by TRT/PPP of preparing, funding and organizing these armies of Reds in several provinces for the specific purpose of launching violent attacks on the peaceful PAD protesters and to destroy their property. Human Rights Watch also clearly implicated the government as a conspirator in the violence that has been used against the PAD in many occasions.
… demand swift remedial action by the government
apart from remedial action, would you also demand, as Human Rights Watch did, that the government must ensure that the PAD are able to exercise their rights to freedom of assembly, which would of course include exercising this right in the various TRT/PPP stronghold provinces.
Or is it better that the people should just succumb to the tyranny of their oppressors whom have allowed, in HRW’s words, “pro-government thugs rein free to unleash violence against them”?
As has happened before at various times in history, it is the brave who would rise against the tyranny of their oppressors and if the PAD protesters are to stand up for their basic right to freedom of assembly and continue to go into the Northeastern Provinces to stage their peaceful rallies, that is the kind of bravery which I find inspiring.
PAD leaders, it appears to me, accepted the resultant bloodshed as a factor in pushing the military to invervene
If bloodshed was to result in a push for military intervention and if that is something Thaksin and the government doesn’t want, then they could have easily prevented the violence by telling the police to do their job (rather than having done the opposite) and stop the funding and organizing of the Red armies in the various provinces.
Anyways, I thought I had made a lot of these points clear in #4 and #5 above already.
An organisation whose policy is to deprive people like those of Udon Thani of their right to representation in Parliament sends a bunch of agents provocateurs to taunt them. The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!
This aging Farang has not taught within the education system for nearly 20 years but I do find it somewhat bemusing that the perceptions of other foreign teachers have not changed much over the intervening decades. First, I do think that the Fonz is in error stating that the underlying tone of Papaya’s essay is racist. I think the Fonz is mistaking frustration for racism, a not uncommon misperception from those who suffer from an overdose of post-modernism. Such a person might listen to me speak of my frustrations with a few of my Thai in-laws and come to a similar incorrect conclusion that I too am a racist, crikey, they might conclude that I am a misanthrope, but I am neither and I do love those relatives.
My own thoughts are that the frustrations of foreign teachers in Thailand arise due to their lack of understanding of Thai students neeeds to deal with the Thai cultural perceptions of ‘saving face” , the need to both maintain ‘face’ for themselves and to protect ‘face’ of others, most particularly the need to protect the ‘face’ of their teachers and achaans by never questioning them. Thus both sides, teachers and students, are most comfortable with rote instruction, a pedagogical methodolgy undervalued in the western world and overworked in Asia. For those interested, I have found that the best academic description of ‘face’ in Thailand to be in Neils Muldar’s original work Everyday Life in Thailand: An Interpretation. For many of us Farangs navigating through Thai society some 20 years ago, this was our survival guide. As for teaching in Thailand, I found that as the teacher, I needed to build the bridge that would clear the path of the ‘face’ saving issues and allow the student to express themselves openly, something I was often able to do so over time on an individual basis, but alas, never at the classroom level. It was frustrating indeed.
Now the concept of ‘face’ is not unique to Thailand, and the Thai education system does suffer from other afflictions. Clearly the Bangkok elite has little desire to share knowledge and thus share power with the Thai masses and thus education has been given short shrift in funding. (Dare I say that if there is any racism, it is that of the institutional Sino-Thai racism against the rural Tai masses ) And then there is the somewhat related issue of corruption within the education system where meritocracy is often thrown out and replaced with purchased seats spanning all levels of the education system from kindergarten up through the most prestigious universities.
Meanwhile, here in the US, we are unintentionally assimilating towards a Thai education system with a test focused system that similarly stifles creativity within the classroom, both from the teachers and from the students. And judging from my nieces who have recently entered the corporate world, the concept of ‘saving face’ seems to be entering that sphere as well as they describe a world where little gets done day to day out of fear of rocking the boat from their little cubicles.
Ah Reg, I sense a bit more of evenhandedness now (now you are beginning to answer the question we posed of you in “Time to go Home”)!
Totally agree – let’s throw in the TRT state-sponsored death squad during the War on Drugs or the crimes in the south such as Kruesae, Takbai, Sabai Yoi to put breaching police line in Sisaket into clearer perspective. And let’s differentiate between “calling for it” and IMPLEMENTATION as part of state policy.
Srithanonchai, the PAD’s is the “alternative narrative” to state controlled medias and, to give an obvious recent example, PMSamak’s “Taste and Complain” TV shows – and the previous marketing and media games PMThaksin and TRT mastered. Barring their extreme political prescriptions, PAD’s exposure of government abuses is also a healthy “alternative narratives” any Thai should hear. I would prefer that the PPP sponsor open weekly forums live on national TV so that the conflicting narratives can be debated and discussed (e.g. What is democracy, checks and balances, rule of law, corruption and how TRT/PPP and PAD encourages and violates it?). Although I hope that is the case, expecting swift remedial action from the Samak government may be a bit naive to0 (not just you, I will always naively hope and pray as well).
No Srithanonchai, that’s why I asked. I am not sure I see “wooly cuty” or “proud” in Karmablues comments. A lot of anger, yes… I’ve just adviced an Aussie mate about to go on holiday to Thailand for the first time to avoid discussing politics as all costs if he wants a good time!
I am not going to jump into the melee of defending the PAD, but do want to cast a word of doubt on the idea that the PAD was attempting to provoke confrontations in general. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude here in Thailand makes everyone shut up and allow things to continue down the same old path.
I more believe that the PAD, certainly considering the possibility of confrontation, wants to be able to speak and be heard. This right is enshrined in the Thai constitution but not the Thai social culture. People won’t want others to speak in ways that affront their perceptions. But if the country is ever going to crawl toward democracy, then people need to accept the right of others to speak,and of others to receive knowledge and information.
#4 I had mentioned the “other side” in a comment on a different thread, if I remember correctly, and I reacted on Andrew’s comment… I find adding more of the repetetive emotional statements lame, though you can certainly have a different taste or think that the grave danger inherent in this situation demands such a tactic.
Though I clearly reject the “Red barbarians'” (not my words) behavior in Udon (and elsewhere) and demand swift remedial action by the government, it does not make me overlook that the PAD obviously had a concious strategy of provoking clashes in PPP strongholds. PAD leaders, it appears to me, accepted the resultant bloodshed as a factor in pushing the military to invervene and thereby possibly achieve the PAD’s goal: an end of the “Thaksin regime” in the guise of the Samak government. Calling this an “alternative narrative” seems to be a bit naive.
Sidh: Yes it does recall earlier events at Central World and also those in Sisaket more recently, where the Bangkok Post (18 July) reported: “Police barriers were also set up in the area with about 200 police officers standing guard. The PAD wanted to march to the temple ruins to protest against Cambodia’s listing of the temple as a World Heritage site. Leading PAD figures ordered their security guards to break through the police barriers. This prompted angry local residents to throw wooden objects at the PAD protesters, who used flag poles to hit back. Police rushed to intervene. The clash left several PAD demonstrators and local residents injured.” Presumably the ordering of PAD “guards” to break through police barriers, provoking violence, deserves condemnation as well.
Physical violence is contemptible, whoever perpetrates it. Incitement to illegal acts including a coup and overthrowing the constitution and election results is also worthy of contempt, whoever calls for it.
Events at Udon Thani and other provinces takes us back to the 2006 protests in front of Central World where the police colluded with thugs in black to beat up the defenseless and weak (women, the eldery) anti-Thaksin protestors…
What I sense here is a very desperate PMThaksin/PPP – as PAD has
taken their ‘alternative views’ to their political heartland where they enjoy ELECTORAL MONOPOLY. Their means and methods to maintain that monopoly is, on the whole, UNDEMOCRATIC from peddling influence through state mechanism to rampant vote buying in the past to outright violence and thuggery last week (which combines the state mechanism in police collusion again and a likely hiring of local thugs – the type that burns slums, market places to the ground for real estate development).
Independent of their views, the PAD, in exposing alternative narratives THROUGH PEACEFUL MEANS in the PMThaksin/PPP heartland is probably doing local democracy a favour. As has happened in Bangkok, attendants at these PAD provincial town centers will likely grow, fanned by marketing nationalist/royalist catchphrases such as Khao Phra Vihear (initiated by a PPP grand blunder due to a highly probable conflicts of interests – no evidences there, but a suspicion based on old patterns) – complemented with ‘why PMThaksin is bad for Thailand/why voting PPP is bad for the country’ etc…etc… Why can’t pro-Thaksin groups just set up another stage on the other side of town? Or if PPP don’t want PAD physical presence, allocate public radio/tv time for views alternate to the incumbent government’s. In fact, any government with true democratic aspirations should fully support forums that airs/discuss difference of opinions…
Andrew is right that the PAD leadership has to take responsibility too, but not because they are responsible for “…Thailand’s political system has taken another turn away from the peaceful resolution of difference” as he stated. It is because they fully realize they are fighting CAPITALIST MAFIAS who are more than willing to resort to unlawful, violent means. The critical test here, again, is on the Thai rule of law – and the willingness of the Thai state to uphold/enforce it.
If the 500 police did little at Udon to protect a peaceful rally because a leader of the pro-Thaksin camp said “do you know who my brother is? (a deputy agricultural minister in the PPP cabinet)”, it is both the police and all funders, planners and perpetuators of violence that is ACCOUNTABLE and DIRECTLY responsible, not the PAD (who Andrew seemed to already convict in the international court of public opinion for all Thai state abuses by PMThaksin/TRT/PPP since 2001!!!).
Yes, indeed, condemn physical violence when it occurs. At the same time, it might be useful to consider the literature on agents provocateurs, a term that has recently been used in Thailand.
karmablues: “Thaksinites of course can continue to blame the PAD for everything as usual, it is quite amusing really.” The shoe seems to fit both sides, of which your post is an example. Both sides seem content to blame each other and ignore the failings of their own. Fascism exists in huge mounds in Thailand, and both sides are dipping into that rich lode.
Is it true that there wasn’t a death in Udon? Was this statement about a death really an attempt by Chamlong to stir more violence along with his reported claim that there is an assassination plot against Sondhi Lim? Did the press report this claim without investigate the claim before rushing to print?
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Thuggery and madness
Sidh: “Why can’t pro-Thaksin groups just set up another stage on the other side of town?”
A very sensible suggestion, contrasted with the following:
R N England: “The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!
Is this an academic site? Unbelievable!!!!!
Self-sufficient Pyramid Scheme
Do you live on a small farm? Is there something on your farm that you never thought of using to make extra income? Well, I am going to give you some ideas on how to take your small farm and monetize it. Here are a few examples of how I make money on my farm. After reading this article, I have no doubt that you will be making extra income from something that you enjoy doing.
Do you have chickens? Ever thought about selling farm fresh eggs? My neighbors are always putting in an order for farm fresh eggs. I sell an average of 20 dozen per week at $2.25 per dozen! I started out with one customer, and by word of mouth, I now have about 15 weekly customers and that number continues to grow. I now need to increase my laying hens.
Do you have a small garden? Ever think about selling farm fresh produce? I sell fresh tomatoes, potatoes, cabbage, squash, cucumbers and much more. I do this right from my farm. I have no need to go to the farmers market. Once you build a good reputation with your neighbors, the word gets out and you will have more demand then you can supply. Everyone wants fresh farm products and really do want to support their local farmers. It’s a win-win solution for everyone.
Do you have a milk cow? Sell fresh farm milk to your neighbors! Or maybe you have plenty of timber for firewood? There are many ways to optimize your small farm and learn how to live a more self sufficient healthy lifestyle at the same time.
I could keep going, but I think you get the point. All of these hobbies can really add up and everyone benefits.
Thuggery and madness
Bangkokpost has reported that Kwanchai is an official (equivalent to C-8 level) attached to the PM’s Secretariat Office who was approved by Cabinet in May 2008.
Ji Ungpakorn on the “carnival of reaction”
You ask: Is it true that there wasn’t a death in Udon? Was this statement about a death really an attempt by Chamlong to stir more violence along with his reported claim that there is an assassination plot against Sondhi Lim? Did the press report this claim without investigate the claim before rushing to print?
I ask: Is it true that the corpse of the man who was killed had been taken away and destroyed by police? Was the indifference shown by PM Samak and Chalerm to the violent incident an attempt to stir angry reaction by the PAD along with the foot-dragging by police in taking action against the perpetrators? Did the officials deny that there were no deaths in Udon without investigating whether a corpse had been destroyed as many has claimed?
So I guess we can both agree that many questions can be asked.
Thuggery and madness
Re #13
it does not make me overlook that the PAD obviously had a concious strategy of provoking clashes in PPP strongholds
but you seem to be overlooking the fact that there is a conscious strategy by TRT/PPP of preparing, funding and organizing these armies of Reds in several provinces for the specific purpose of launching violent attacks on the peaceful PAD protesters and to destroy their property. Human Rights Watch also clearly implicated the government as a conspirator in the violence that has been used against the PAD in many occasions.
… demand swift remedial action by the government
apart from remedial action, would you also demand, as Human Rights Watch did, that the government must ensure that the PAD are able to exercise their rights to freedom of assembly, which would of course include exercising this right in the various TRT/PPP stronghold provinces.
Or is it better that the people should just succumb to the tyranny of their oppressors whom have allowed, in HRW’s words, “pro-government thugs rein free to unleash violence against them”?
As has happened before at various times in history, it is the brave who would rise against the tyranny of their oppressors and if the PAD protesters are to stand up for their basic right to freedom of assembly and continue to go into the Northeastern Provinces to stage their peaceful rallies, that is the kind of bravery which I find inspiring.
PAD leaders, it appears to me, accepted the resultant bloodshed as a factor in pushing the military to invervene
If bloodshed was to result in a push for military intervention and if that is something Thaksin and the government doesn’t want, then they could have easily prevented the violence by telling the police to do their job (rather than having done the opposite) and stop the funding and organizing of the Red armies in the various provinces.
Anyways, I thought I had made a lot of these points clear in #4 and #5 above already.
Thuggery and madness
An organisation whose policy is to deprive people like those of Udon Thani of their right to representation in Parliament sends a bunch of agents provocateurs to taunt them. The agents get their heads bashed in and you all throw up your hands in horror! What did you expect? Didn’t the Boston Tea Party have something to do with representation? Now we’ve had the Udon Thani Tea Party. Good on them for sticking up for democracy!
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
This aging Farang has not taught within the education system for nearly 20 years but I do find it somewhat bemusing that the perceptions of other foreign teachers have not changed much over the intervening decades. First, I do think that the Fonz is in error stating that the underlying tone of Papaya’s essay is racist. I think the Fonz is mistaking frustration for racism, a not uncommon misperception from those who suffer from an overdose of post-modernism. Such a person might listen to me speak of my frustrations with a few of my Thai in-laws and come to a similar incorrect conclusion that I too am a racist, crikey, they might conclude that I am a misanthrope, but I am neither and I do love those relatives.
My own thoughts are that the frustrations of foreign teachers in Thailand arise due to their lack of understanding of Thai students neeeds to deal with the Thai cultural perceptions of ‘saving face” , the need to both maintain ‘face’ for themselves and to protect ‘face’ of others, most particularly the need to protect the ‘face’ of their teachers and achaans by never questioning them. Thus both sides, teachers and students, are most comfortable with rote instruction, a pedagogical methodolgy undervalued in the western world and overworked in Asia. For those interested, I have found that the best academic description of ‘face’ in Thailand to be in Neils Muldar’s original work Everyday Life in Thailand: An Interpretation. For many of us Farangs navigating through Thai society some 20 years ago, this was our survival guide. As for teaching in Thailand, I found that as the teacher, I needed to build the bridge that would clear the path of the ‘face’ saving issues and allow the student to express themselves openly, something I was often able to do so over time on an individual basis, but alas, never at the classroom level. It was frustrating indeed.
Now the concept of ‘face’ is not unique to Thailand, and the Thai education system does suffer from other afflictions. Clearly the Bangkok elite has little desire to share knowledge and thus share power with the Thai masses and thus education has been given short shrift in funding. (Dare I say that if there is any racism, it is that of the institutional Sino-Thai racism against the rural Tai masses ) And then there is the somewhat related issue of corruption within the education system where meritocracy is often thrown out and replaced with purchased seats spanning all levels of the education system from kindergarten up through the most prestigious universities.
Meanwhile, here in the US, we are unintentionally assimilating towards a Thai education system with a test focused system that similarly stifles creativity within the classroom, both from the teachers and from the students. And judging from my nieces who have recently entered the corporate world, the concept of ‘saving face’ seems to be entering that sphere as well as they describe a world where little gets done day to day out of fear of rocking the boat from their little cubicles.
Thuggery and madness
Ah Reg, I sense a bit more of evenhandedness now (now you are beginning to answer the question we posed of you in “Time to go Home”)!
Totally agree – let’s throw in the TRT state-sponsored death squad during the War on Drugs or the crimes in the south such as Kruesae, Takbai, Sabai Yoi to put breaching police line in Sisaket into clearer perspective. And let’s differentiate between “calling for it” and IMPLEMENTATION as part of state policy.
Srithanonchai, the PAD’s is the “alternative narrative” to state controlled medias and, to give an obvious recent example, PMSamak’s “Taste and Complain” TV shows – and the previous marketing and media games PMThaksin and TRT mastered. Barring their extreme political prescriptions, PAD’s exposure of government abuses is also a healthy “alternative narratives” any Thai should hear. I would prefer that the PPP sponsor open weekly forums live on national TV so that the conflicting narratives can be debated and discussed (e.g. What is democracy, checks and balances, rule of law, corruption and how TRT/PPP and PAD encourages and violates it?). Although I hope that is the case, expecting swift remedial action from the Samak government may be a bit naive to0 (not just you, I will always naively hope and pray as well).
Time to go home
No Srithanonchai, that’s why I asked. I am not sure I see “wooly cuty” or “proud” in Karmablues comments. A lot of anger, yes… I’ve just adviced an Aussie mate about to go on holiday to Thailand for the first time to avoid discussing politics as all costs if he wants a good time!
Thuggery and madness
28 July 2008
I am not going to jump into the melee of defending the PAD, but do want to cast a word of doubt on the idea that the PAD was attempting to provoke confrontations in general. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude here in Thailand makes everyone shut up and allow things to continue down the same old path.
I more believe that the PAD, certainly considering the possibility of confrontation, wants to be able to speak and be heard. This right is enshrined in the Thai constitution but not the Thai social culture. People won’t want others to speak in ways that affront their perceptions. But if the country is ever going to crawl toward democracy, then people need to accept the right of others to speak,and of others to receive knowledge and information.
Thuggery and madness
#4 I had mentioned the “other side” in a comment on a different thread, if I remember correctly, and I reacted on Andrew’s comment… I find adding more of the repetetive emotional statements lame, though you can certainly have a different taste or think that the grave danger inherent in this situation demands such a tactic.
Though I clearly reject the “Red barbarians'” (not my words) behavior in Udon (and elsewhere) and demand swift remedial action by the government, it does not make me overlook that the PAD obviously had a concious strategy of provoking clashes in PPP strongholds. PAD leaders, it appears to me, accepted the resultant bloodshed as a factor in pushing the military to invervene and thereby possibly achieve the PAD’s goal: an end of the “Thaksin regime” in the guise of the Samak government. Calling this an “alternative narrative” seems to be a bit naive.
Thuggery and madness
Sidh: Yes it does recall earlier events at Central World and also those in Sisaket more recently, where the Bangkok Post (18 July) reported: “Police barriers were also set up in the area with about 200 police officers standing guard. The PAD wanted to march to the temple ruins to protest against Cambodia’s listing of the temple as a World Heritage site. Leading PAD figures ordered their security guards to break through the police barriers. This prompted angry local residents to throw wooden objects at the PAD protesters, who used flag poles to hit back. Police rushed to intervene. The clash left several PAD demonstrators and local residents injured.” Presumably the ordering of PAD “guards” to break through police barriers, provoking violence, deserves condemnation as well.
Physical violence is contemptible, whoever perpetrates it. Incitement to illegal acts including a coup and overthrowing the constitution and election results is also worthy of contempt, whoever calls for it.
Time to go home
Sidh: Isn’t that obvious? Anyway, I don’t want to hamper hermeneutic efforts by directly answering your question. 🙂
Academic freedom?
What was the final outcome of this case?
Thanks.
Khmer Rouge shock troops?
[…] Erik Davis helpfully pointed out last time I mentioned “Khmer Rouge” fighters along the border — “it would […]
Time to go home
“Karmablues: You are really a woolly cuty! Just don’t be too proud of it…”
Interesting comment Srithanonchai, what do you mean by that statement?
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
Khun Hinke,
Could you provide the censored books for us please.
What about considering posting them on scribd.com, if you don’t have your own running servers?
Thank you,
Siammann
Thuggery and madness
Events at Udon Thani and other provinces takes us back to the 2006 protests in front of Central World where the police colluded with thugs in black to beat up the defenseless and weak (women, the eldery) anti-Thaksin protestors…
What I sense here is a very desperate PMThaksin/PPP – as PAD has
taken their ‘alternative views’ to their political heartland where they enjoy ELECTORAL MONOPOLY. Their means and methods to maintain that monopoly is, on the whole, UNDEMOCRATIC from peddling influence through state mechanism to rampant vote buying in the past to outright violence and thuggery last week (which combines the state mechanism in police collusion again and a likely hiring of local thugs – the type that burns slums, market places to the ground for real estate development).
Independent of their views, the PAD, in exposing alternative narratives THROUGH PEACEFUL MEANS in the PMThaksin/PPP heartland is probably doing local democracy a favour. As has happened in Bangkok, attendants at these PAD provincial town centers will likely grow, fanned by marketing nationalist/royalist catchphrases such as Khao Phra Vihear (initiated by a PPP grand blunder due to a highly probable conflicts of interests – no evidences there, but a suspicion based on old patterns) – complemented with ‘why PMThaksin is bad for Thailand/why voting PPP is bad for the country’ etc…etc… Why can’t pro-Thaksin groups just set up another stage on the other side of town? Or if PPP don’t want PAD physical presence, allocate public radio/tv time for views alternate to the incumbent government’s. In fact, any government with true democratic aspirations should fully support forums that airs/discuss difference of opinions…
Andrew is right that the PAD leadership has to take responsibility too, but not because they are responsible for “…Thailand’s political system has taken another turn away from the peaceful resolution of difference” as he stated. It is because they fully realize they are fighting CAPITALIST MAFIAS who are more than willing to resort to unlawful, violent means. The critical test here, again, is on the Thai rule of law – and the willingness of the Thai state to uphold/enforce it.
If the 500 police did little at Udon to protect a peaceful rally because a leader of the pro-Thaksin camp said “do you know who my brother is? (a deputy agricultural minister in the PPP cabinet)”, it is both the police and all funders, planners and perpetuators of violence that is ACCOUNTABLE and DIRECTLY responsible, not the PAD (who Andrew seemed to already convict in the international court of public opinion for all Thai state abuses by PMThaksin/TRT/PPP since 2001!!!).
Thuggery and madness
Yes, indeed, condemn physical violence when it occurs. At the same time, it might be useful to consider the literature on agents provocateurs, a term that has recently been used in Thailand.
Ji Ungpakorn on the “carnival of reaction”
karmablues: “Thaksinites of course can continue to blame the PAD for everything as usual, it is quite amusing really.” The shoe seems to fit both sides, of which your post is an example. Both sides seem content to blame each other and ignore the failings of their own. Fascism exists in huge mounds in Thailand, and both sides are dipping into that rich lode.
Is it true that there wasn’t a death in Udon? Was this statement about a death really an attempt by Chamlong to stir more violence along with his reported claim that there is an assassination plot against Sondhi Lim? Did the press report this claim without investigate the claim before rushing to print?