[…] The East-West Center recently hosted an event that saw three major commentators on Burma issues discussing the impact of Cyclone Nargis. There is a report of the conversation available here. Readers hoping to learn more from these three quotable notables may also find these links useful: Priscilla Clapp, Kyi May Kaung and David Steinberg. […]
You sound like you have been taking rhetorical lessons from the opinion writers at The Nation or, maybe, from the lack of coherent argumentation in your writing, smoking too many spliffs.
You spout a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense without a shred of empirical evidence. Typical Sondhi Lim tactic. Yet you have the audacity to insult Thais by calling them, more or less, anti-intellectual sheep. I think your average Thai is fairly cognizant of all the corruption and political shenanigans that go on in Thailand.
The problem is not awareness, but the ability or lack of ability in utilizing the tools available to deal with political problems.
And your defense of PAD tactics/mob rule is truly frightening. Mobs are inherently anti-democratic. It is nothing but a tool used by a small unrepresentative group of thugs to extort.
In the final analysis, and this is my stand, and it has always my stand is that is far better to deal with political problems with the law, democratic politics, and civilized behavior(however flawed the processes may be) rather than resort to the cycles of temper tantrums, blackmailing mobs and military coups that don’t serve Thailand in the least bit.
However, I should have checked the respective part about the BBC documentary Robert Horn mentions in TKNS first. Handley cites Bhumibol’s entire statement on pages 273-74:
The investigation provided the fact that he died with a bullet wound in his forehead. It was proved that it was not an accident and not a suicide. One doesn’t know. . . . But what happened is very mysterious, because immediately much of the evidence was just shifted. And because it was political, so everyone was political, even the police were political, [it was] not very clear.
I only know [that] when I arrived he was dead. Many people wanted to advance not theories but facts to clear up the affair. They were suppressed. And they were suppressed by influential people in this country and in international politics.
The translators of the German documentary did a quite sloppy job.
When you allow your name to be used on a report as a co-author, it in fact does imply that you agree with the conclusions–unless there is a specific statement in the report that not all authors agree with the conclusions. A lot of consultants and ‘experts’ have made an obscene amount of money out of Nam Theun 2 over the years, the POE members included, by ignoring, downplaying, or keeping quiet about the contradictions and fundamental flaws in this project. Now that things are so obviously going poorly, they have only themselves to blame. Maybe consultants whose work helped legitimize this project and who claim to actually care about the livelihoods of the people being impacted by it should consider donating every cent they have made off of their NT2 related contracts to a fund for direct reparations to impacted people and communities in the area.
No doubt Tesco is a blessing to many Thai shoppers. What I see as one of their weak points is how their employees move about and talk without consideration for the peace and convenience of their customers. Especially in the South, many of these emloyees are crude and overbusinesslike. You would think you are there to beg for something from them instead of giving them patronage.
As a Southern Thai, I am still untouched by Russian and live a very normal life. But I indeed worry about my compatriots who are ready to sell anything to visitors from afar, including their very soul.
Andrew – it’s not so simple. Sure, we know how these reports get written, and that’s why academics lending their credentials to such things need to take special care. This report was commissioned by AusAID as part of the process backing up the Australian Government’s position on the project at the World Bank through the Australian Executive Director’s vote. Much of what we write as academics about development has little direct bearing on decisions. What you write as an academic consultant can have more direct impact, particularly in projects where the game of legitimacy is paramount. It is not sufficient to say that you only had a position on the resettlement plan, not on the dam. You lent your name to a report that recommended going ahead. I don’t think that you are saying that you did so on the basis that the national benefits may outweigh problems for affected people, but that is the logic of saying you rejected the viability of the resettlement plan but were willing to support the project.
There have been numerous Japanese tales in Burma’s periphery. Some Japanese even participated in cross-border activities with ethnic minority armed groups; and a few of them published written accounts. Takazumi Nishiyama was one of them. I have not read this book by him (as it is not easy to get hold of a copy). But I can say here that Nishiyama’s writing available online is very thoughtful, showing that he made the decision to join the Karen army as once-in-a-lifetime commitment. The book is “very famous” among the Japanese who are very interested in the contemporary Karen situation on the border, but outside this rather small circle it is not a widely recognizable title. (It was never re-printed and is out of print today.)
The best-known Japanese cross-border adventure into Burma in English is Hideyuki Takano’s outrageous misadventure to the Wa land. The Shore Beyond Good and Evil: A Report from Inside Burma’s Opium Kingdom presents a story of a young Japanese man’s seven-month life in a Wa village (from October 1997 to May 1996). There he grew–and in the end hopelessly addicted to–opium. Despite the grandiose English title, Takano is a humor writer and this book is self-consciously hilarious. Unlike Nishiyama, he was driven not by political commitment but by curiosity. It turns out that Takano is an honest and acute observer and his book gives such a rare glimpse into the day-to-day life in a Wa village.
Of all the Japanese cross-border journeys into Burma’s periphery, however, those by Toshihiro Yoshida are regarded as the most remarkable. And it is very unfortunate that his writing on northern Burma has not been translated into English. This is probably partly because he refuses to be sensational. Yoshida’s prose is very reflective and it is certainly not for a popular glossy magazine.
Yoshida started visiting Shan villages in 1977 when he was a college student. In January 1985 Yoshida crossed the border from Mae Hongson to Burma, and in March he left the KNPP headquarter with KIA troops going back to Kachin. Until October 1998–that is, for three years and seven months–Yoshida stayed with KIA, criss-crossing northern Burma. (Incidentally this is also the time that Bertil Linter was traveling in the same part of the country–a journey resulting in his Land of Jade.)
Upon his return he published four books on northern Burma. (The first and main chronicle of his journey won the majob non-fiction award in Japan.) Yoshida learned to speak Jingpo fluently and in the books he offers exceptionally detailed descriptions of what he saw and heard in parts of Shan and Kachin States. He wrote in detail about remote villages and villagers, houses, clothes, farming methods and tools, food, animals, plants, music, myths and legends, festivals and rituals, language, kinship and trees.
Yoshida writes about acts of atrocity by the Burmese army. He also talks squarely about criminal behavior by the Japanese during WWII. His interest in the end, however, is not so much in military or political affairs. What impressed him most deeply in northern Burma was in fact the forest and swidden farming. (He wrote four books on northern Burma and three of them bear in the title the word “forest.”)
Yoshida found dignity and richness in the lives of trees and humans, and he succeeded in capturing them in beautiful, evocative prose. I hope it will be translated into English. I am sure that it will be translated into Burmese (and hopefully Jingpo) when people there can read freely about their own country.
Yes, oh Raphie-boy, pal-o-mine, Mr. Jameson appears on several Burma blogs and webboards showering himself with praise for the exceptional and painstaking gnosticism he obtained reading old British manuscripts during his three years in Burma and dismissing we mere mortals who simply can’t comprehend his genius. And all who disagree are either crazy, brainwashed by the mainstream media or have never set in foot in the country.
It all sounds so familiar. Do the names Miriam Marshall Seagal, Michael Dobbs-Higginson and Pat James ring any bells?
20 June 2008
Gunter and others have a narrow-minded tunnel vision of the monarchy, a monarchy which even His Majesty (5 Dec. 2005) entreated the Thai people and others to criticize him if it was warranted so he could become a better person, and that he was not superhuman.
So, criticism is OK with the king. Point one.
Point two – Jonathan Head has been a responsible reporter, every bit as responsible as Shawn Crispin and Rodney Tasker from the Far Eastern Economic Report. His coverage of the monarchy was in no way insulting or disrespectful, but because there are certain powerful elites here in Thailand, backed by compliant and ignorant (even themselves fearful) police, no one bothers defending people who expound accurate information about the monarchy. Apparently, the Gestapo has to read over all material first.
Point 3 – As each second passes, I become more and more convinced that this law, Article 112 for Martyrs, must be repealed as soon as possible. But before that the police need to be taken out of the picture – this would obviously mean taking lese majeste out of the criminal code, and by many accounts, all defamation legislation in Thailand out of the criminal code, making it only civil. That way, if someone feels insulted, instead of having the Gestapo do their work for them, they will have to dig into their picket and come up with money, and devote the time, to build a case that currently is unjustly made by fear, lies, bias, illusion, xenophobia, social stratification and hatred of those who are different and who are entitled to speak.
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Interview with Professor David Steinberg
[…] The East-West Center recently hosted an event that saw three major commentators on Burma issues discussing the impact of Cyclone Nargis. There is a report of the conversation available here. Readers hoping to learn more from these three quotable notables may also find these links useful: Priscilla Clapp, Kyi May Kaung and David Steinberg. […]
Steinberg vs Kyi May Kaung: Burma debate continues
[…] learn more from these three quotable notables may also find these links useful: Priscilla Clapp, Kyi May Kaung and David […]
Burning down the embassy
Thanks for the clarifier. I had blogged about exactly this issue:
http://absolutelybangkok.com/fire-the-embassy-what-a-lucky-coincidence/
Leave the PA(S)D alone!
Frank-
You sound like you have been taking rhetorical lessons from the opinion writers at The Nation or, maybe, from the lack of coherent argumentation in your writing, smoking too many spliffs.
You spout a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense without a shred of empirical evidence. Typical Sondhi Lim tactic. Yet you have the audacity to insult Thais by calling them, more or less, anti-intellectual sheep. I think your average Thai is fairly cognizant of all the corruption and political shenanigans that go on in Thailand.
The problem is not awareness, but the ability or lack of ability in utilizing the tools available to deal with political problems.
And your defense of PAD tactics/mob rule is truly frightening. Mobs are inherently anti-democratic. It is nothing but a tool used by a small unrepresentative group of thugs to extort.
In the final analysis, and this is my stand, and it has always my stand is that is far better to deal with political problems with the law, democratic politics, and civilized behavior(however flawed the processes may be) rather than resort to the cycles of temper tantrums, blackmailing mobs and military coups that don’t serve Thailand in the least bit.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
20 June 2008
Do I presume correctly that HM is being quoted via a translation into English? If so, what is the original Thai?
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
CJ Hinke: I just sent out the DVD to you.
However, I should have checked the respective part about the BBC documentary Robert Horn mentions in TKNS first. Handley cites Bhumibol’s entire statement on pages 273-74:
The translators of the German documentary did a quite sloppy job.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
Dear CJ Hinke,
Would you please send me a copy disk of the file to me ,too.
Thank you in advance.
My address;
Suwat Limsuvan
131/14 Moo 19 , Putthamolthon 2 Road, Sarathumasop, Tawewatana, Bangkok,10170
Nam Theun resettlement – an entirely predictable stuff-up
When you allow your name to be used on a report as a co-author, it in fact does imply that you agree with the conclusions–unless there is a specific statement in the report that not all authors agree with the conclusions. A lot of consultants and ‘experts’ have made an obscene amount of money out of Nam Theun 2 over the years, the POE members included, by ignoring, downplaying, or keeping quiet about the contradictions and fundamental flaws in this project. Now that things are so obviously going poorly, they have only themselves to blame. Maybe consultants whose work helped legitimize this project and who claim to actually care about the livelihoods of the people being impacted by it should consider donating every cent they have made off of their NT2 related contracts to a fund for direct reparations to impacted people and communities in the area.
Leave the PA(S)D alone!
I think Frank may be mistaking Zimbabwe for Thailand.
New Thinking, New Shopping
No doubt Tesco is a blessing to many Thai shoppers. What I see as one of their weak points is how their employees move about and talk without consideration for the peace and convenience of their customers. Especially in the South, many of these emloyees are crude and overbusinesslike. You would think you are there to beg for something from them instead of giving them patronage.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Sorry Dom, I’m away for the weekend. I thought I’d put the cat among the pigeons. I owe you an explanation.
ในภาคใต้ภาษารัสเซียเป็e
As a Southern Thai, I am still untouched by Russian and live a very normal life. But I indeed worry about my compatriots who are ready to sell anything to visitors from afar, including their very soul.
Thong dee, not so dee
Pity poor elephants who are at the mercy (or mercilessness) of those humans who think of themselves as being oh so superior!
Sino-Thai “tree of friendship” at the border
This single tree is so symbolic of Thailand, which is fast becoming a tree-less country.
Leave the PA(S)D alone!
What’s happening in Bangkok now is “democrazy” or mass madness, thought by some to be Thai democracy.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
Concerning Bhumibol’s comments about his brother, this is what he said in “Soul of a Nation” the BBC documentary from about 1980:
“It was not an accident, not a suicide. The truth had been suppressed, because it was political.”
Nam Theun resettlement – an entirely predictable stuff-up
Andrew – it’s not so simple. Sure, we know how these reports get written, and that’s why academics lending their credentials to such things need to take special care. This report was commissioned by AusAID as part of the process backing up the Australian Government’s position on the project at the World Bank through the Australian Executive Director’s vote. Much of what we write as academics about development has little direct bearing on decisions. What you write as an academic consultant can have more direct impact, particularly in projects where the game of legitimacy is paramount. It is not sufficient to say that you only had a position on the resettlement plan, not on the dam. You lent your name to a report that recommended going ahead. I don’t think that you are saying that you did so on the basis that the national benefits may outweigh problems for affected people, but that is the logic of saying you rejected the viability of the resettlement plan but were willing to support the project.
A Japanese tale
There have been numerous Japanese tales in Burma’s periphery. Some Japanese even participated in cross-border activities with ethnic minority armed groups; and a few of them published written accounts. Takazumi Nishiyama was one of them. I have not read this book by him (as it is not easy to get hold of a copy). But I can say here that Nishiyama’s writing available online is very thoughtful, showing that he made the decision to join the Karen army as once-in-a-lifetime commitment. The book is “very famous” among the Japanese who are very interested in the contemporary Karen situation on the border, but outside this rather small circle it is not a widely recognizable title. (It was never re-printed and is out of print today.)
The best-known Japanese cross-border adventure into Burma in English is Hideyuki Takano’s outrageous misadventure to the Wa land. The Shore Beyond Good and Evil: A Report from Inside Burma’s Opium Kingdom presents a story of a young Japanese man’s seven-month life in a Wa village (from October 1997 to May 1996). There he grew–and in the end hopelessly addicted to–opium. Despite the grandiose English title, Takano is a humor writer and this book is self-consciously hilarious. Unlike Nishiyama, he was driven not by political commitment but by curiosity. It turns out that Takano is an honest and acute observer and his book gives such a rare glimpse into the day-to-day life in a Wa village.
Of all the Japanese cross-border journeys into Burma’s periphery, however, those by Toshihiro Yoshida are regarded as the most remarkable. And it is very unfortunate that his writing on northern Burma has not been translated into English. This is probably partly because he refuses to be sensational. Yoshida’s prose is very reflective and it is certainly not for a popular glossy magazine.
Yoshida started visiting Shan villages in 1977 when he was a college student. In January 1985 Yoshida crossed the border from Mae Hongson to Burma, and in March he left the KNPP headquarter with KIA troops going back to Kachin. Until October 1998–that is, for three years and seven months–Yoshida stayed with KIA, criss-crossing northern Burma. (Incidentally this is also the time that Bertil Linter was traveling in the same part of the country–a journey resulting in his Land of Jade.)
Upon his return he published four books on northern Burma. (The first and main chronicle of his journey won the majob non-fiction award in Japan.) Yoshida learned to speak Jingpo fluently and in the books he offers exceptionally detailed descriptions of what he saw and heard in parts of Shan and Kachin States. He wrote in detail about remote villages and villagers, houses, clothes, farming methods and tools, food, animals, plants, music, myths and legends, festivals and rituals, language, kinship and trees.
Yoshida writes about acts of atrocity by the Burmese army. He also talks squarely about criminal behavior by the Japanese during WWII. His interest in the end, however, is not so much in military or political affairs. What impressed him most deeply in northern Burma was in fact the forest and swidden farming. (He wrote four books on northern Burma and three of them bear in the title the word “forest.”)
Yoshida found dignity and richness in the lives of trees and humans, and he succeeded in capturing them in beautiful, evocative prose. I hope it will be translated into English. I am sure that it will be translated into Burmese (and hopefully Jingpo) when people there can read freely about their own country.
JSEAS special issue on Burma is out now
Yes, oh Raphie-boy, pal-o-mine, Mr. Jameson appears on several Burma blogs and webboards showering himself with praise for the exceptional and painstaking gnosticism he obtained reading old British manuscripts during his three years in Burma and dismissing we mere mortals who simply can’t comprehend his genius. And all who disagree are either crazy, brainwashed by the mainstream media or have never set in foot in the country.
It all sounds so familiar. Do the names Miriam Marshall Seagal, Michael Dobbs-Higginson and Pat James ring any bells?
The lèse majesté plot thickens
20 June 2008
Gunter and others have a narrow-minded tunnel vision of the monarchy, a monarchy which even His Majesty (5 Dec. 2005) entreated the Thai people and others to criticize him if it was warranted so he could become a better person, and that he was not superhuman.
So, criticism is OK with the king. Point one.
Point two – Jonathan Head has been a responsible reporter, every bit as responsible as Shawn Crispin and Rodney Tasker from the Far Eastern Economic Report. His coverage of the monarchy was in no way insulting or disrespectful, but because there are certain powerful elites here in Thailand, backed by compliant and ignorant (even themselves fearful) police, no one bothers defending people who expound accurate information about the monarchy. Apparently, the Gestapo has to read over all material first.
Point 3 – As each second passes, I become more and more convinced that this law, Article 112 for Martyrs, must be repealed as soon as possible. But before that the police need to be taken out of the picture – this would obviously mean taking lese majeste out of the criminal code, and by many accounts, all defamation legislation in Thailand out of the criminal code, making it only civil. That way, if someone feels insulted, instead of having the Gestapo do their work for them, they will have to dig into their picket and come up with money, and devote the time, to build a case that currently is unjustly made by fear, lies, bias, illusion, xenophobia, social stratification and hatred of those who are different and who are entitled to speak.