An interesting statistic worth noting is the current occupational exposure limit for asbestos, which in Thailand is set at 5 fibres per ml. The corresponding figure in the US is 0.1 fibers per ml. That’s a colossal 50 fold difference!
Of course, the higher the permitted exposure limit the less a company has to invest in the costly business of keeping a class 1 carcinogen out of the air. The tragedy is that the unfolding health crisis was (not is) completely avoidable:
“People in Asia are entitled to live and work in a healthy environment. We do not need to see another pile of bodies to prove that asbestos is a killer. The experiences of asbestos victims and afflicted communities in Europe, North America and Australia tell us all we need to know. Working together we can end this needless slaughter; Asia’s asbestos-free future starts here!” (Laurie Kazan-Allen, the Coordinator of the International Ban Asbestos Secretariat (IBAS) ).
A pity the government of Thailand, the world’s fourth largest asbestos importer, is unwilling to act on this message. I can only suppose that it is a case of profits before (other peoples) lives and a testament to the influence of wealthy and/or influential public figures. Why else, do I see TV ads on the dangers of aids, notices to observe smoking bans and yet not even a health warning on an asbestos containing product?
‘As for her poor degree performance, I subscribe to no particular ‘theory’. Maybe she wasn’t yet really up to it. Or maybe it was just her time of month. I remember well some Oxford undergraduettes [WHAT?] putting themselves on the pill a couple of months before the exams just to make sure they weren’t caught out that way. Managing the female calendar, it was called. But Suu Kyi would never have done that.’
You have no need to link Bhumibol to King Mongkut, for they are indeed related by blood, King Mongkut being Bhumibol’s great grandfather.
Spending 15 days in the monkhood is favored by many Thai men who hold regular jobs. It is not expected that much will be gained in the sense of the Dhamma, but it is believed that merit is gained by this act of being in the monkhood. It seems that a lot of Thais follow the motion of merit earning without actually doing things of real merit.
Laos has always been a slight blur in the peripheral vision of anyone seriously interested in writing about Southeast Asia (with a very few exceptions) . One could be forgiven for hardly noticing its existence, despite its peoples’ very central historical involvement in the shaping of mainland Southeast Asia. While perhaps few can do it well, it is much easier to write on those people and places in the region that are already in the global spotlight. I wonder how different Laos would be today if investigative authors like Justin did more than simply ‘pass through’ and write Vientiane off?
Especially interesting as the current monarch was selected by Phibul Songkram, based on factors other the purity of direct lineage playing a major role.
If the roofing bothers you then I warn you not to visit your typical Thai mechanical shop where you normally see 14 year old boys working on brake pads. That being said, one just doesn’t hear about asbestos related diseases in Thailand so perhaps there is more concern regarding the roofing products than is perhaps warranted. Then again, perhaps statistics on mesothelioma, a fairly slow developing disease specific to asbestos exposure, are hidden behind the statistics for cirrhosis of the liver, other diseases, and traffic fatalities in Thailand which are statistically significant.
Interesting stuff! Another example of how this reign consciously seeks to identify with the most important reigns of the past, whether Sukhothai or Ayutthaya or Bangkok periods, to claim “direct” lineage and justify their family position. Besides Chulalongkorn, the palace has tried to tie King Bhumibol with King Mongkut, maybe even moreso. I’m sure observant Thais can see more of these small but important assertions of linkages than I could.
To elaborate one my “maybes” – I said that, Maybe this is what China [govt] fears more than the Dalai Lama? I think the Chinese probably do fear these events because they are more widespread than the Tibet AR and for the fact that they cannot identify “leaders”. The Chinese Govt worries about “spontaneous” rebellions/riots/strikes etc. because they can see a potential for uprising in them. They have less to fear when these events involve ethnic minorities, but even here they fear fraying at the edges – Tibet, Xinjiang might lead to more, maybe. These “edges” are of vital concern to the Beijing regime. So I think they are worried and fearful.
Internationally, perhaps they don’t care too much about the views of the West, but they do worry about the pictures that cause their “peaceful rise” position to look entirely like propaganda.
Teth, my use of “the” with “Chinese” was intended to mean the Chinese administration (the government, including its officials). Their treatment of the Tibetans since the invasion has been extremely brutal. It has included mass slaughter, mass rape (including the public raping of Buddhist nuns), mass torture, and all of the specific elements necessary for the classification ‘genocide’ as a deliberate policy. A reaction against such treatment is “just,” IMO. Hong Kong and Macau people didn’t dispute that they are Chinese, and were not invaded. In fact the Hong Kong Chinese couldn’t wait for the British lease to expire. The Tibetans don’t see themselves or their land as Chinese, and were invaded. They don’t want the Chinese & never have.
The idea that you put forward in the 2nd half of your middle paragraph is fanciful – at present. However, as China comes more into economic prominence it does seem to be loosening up, & it is possible that they will eventually move in the direction of having the luxuries you list (as the West did) in some form. It’s a ‘maybe.’
I am left wondering how Siam Cement (and others) will respond once an ever more educated populace starts to ask questions. There’s no wriggle room here: the dangers of asbestos have been thoroughly documented for half a century, at least!
Sounds like an opportunity for a good lawyer to take on a class action to take on both SC and the overseas suppliers.
How to avoid meeting a similar fate to Somchai N?
Would lese majeste come in to play?
Would involvement of an international legal firm help avoid some of the pitfalls?
Sometimes these arguments can go into a bit of over-generalization, especially with the the categorization of “the Chinese”. That’s over 1 billion people for you…
However, I really do sympathize with your statement that “The Chinese have shown themselves to be a people who know the price of everything & the value of nothing.” Many of them, especially the worst polluters, et cetera, are really odious. The environmental degradation China suffers is unbelievable… Maybe its time for an updated set of Confucian values. Say, checks-and-balances Confucius. Emphasize the respect and unity, but instead, focus it on things like rule of law, love of justice, and human rights rather than an entirely top-down relationship where even though the upper strata are technically duty-bound to the lower strata, only the obligation from the lower strata towards the upper ones are enforced.
Another note about Tibet, how much of the rioting is actually due to xenophobia? Seeing as all parts of China (excluding perhaps HK and Macao) are under a repressive dictatorship, is the Tibetan cause (reflected in the recent riots) really just? I’m all for the proposals from the Dalai Lama. What I don’t comprehend is why China doesn’t treat Tibet in a much more conservative version of “I’ll leave you alone, you’ll leave me alone” type fashion as it is doing in Hong Kong or Macao? And I always thought “the Chinese” were known for compromise.
So this is set up like a kharawan khon ruay where poverty is an after dinner spectacle? Do the humble natives of Surin have a dance they can do (Bangkok tourists are always happy to see a dance in the countryside)? Thanks for posting this. Lavish spending must feel good if you can be transported to gawk at the gentle poor people who are in harmony with nature and can only be reached by private jet. They are nothing like the poor in Bangkok, eh, who are oh so ordinary.
The answer to your question, “Maybe these events represent a response to Chinese rule that is oppressive and exploitative?” is obvious, and I did say, “It’s their desire to stop the Chinese perpetration of genocide and the taking away of their civil rights.” In fact it’s so obvious that even the Chinese Ambassador to London admitted that they have understandable grievances, although she didn’t specify any, in a recent BBC World News interview. (Yes, of course she was only doing a PR damage-control thing, but she did say it.)
re. your ‘Phil Silvers Lookalike Feudalist Maybe’: Do the Tibetans inside Tibet know how the “Hollywood & Californian acolytes” hear & see the DL and the Tibetan situation? And would they understand their thinking? I agree with you that the trendoids & sycophants do cloud the issue with sentimentality & make it difficult to focus on the much more complex reality. But I think it’s a mistake to assume that they are the mouthpieces of the DL. He’s much more lucid, pragmatic, & flexible, and to call him a feudalist is to show ignorance of the way his thinking & perception have developed in exile. I don’t think he wants Tibet to go back to anything like what it was. Why would he want it to become a sort of ‘ethno-religeous zoo’? Anyway, it’s way too late.
In regard to whom or what the Chinese fear, I really don’t think there’s much at all. They don’t really have to. They know they can get away with almost anything; Western governments haven’t intervened yet, & why would they? Is anyone going to stop buying Chinese products? And would that help? (Look at Burma) China has had 7 years (13th July 2001) to keep its promises to do something about pollution & clean up their human rights act, and what has it done? Nothing much. This is well-known, but what are the other Olympic nations doing about it? Nothing much. “Maybe this younger generation…..need to become more confrontational.” If that means being violent & getting slaughtered, & having their freedom restricted further (because they CANNOT succeed), definitely not!
IMO the Chinese have shown themselves to be a people who know the price of everything & the value of nothing. They are doing their best to destroy not only a racial group, but a system of thought & thinking (& one that doesn’t have to be stuck in the archaic – the DL is evidence of that) that we can learn from.
Personally, I can’t stand Phil Silvers (he doesn’t look anything like the DL!), or any of those beige, wise-cracking Americans. (Lenny Bruce was good, though.) I’m more of a Monty Pythonesque person. That’s why I stay in Thailand.
Interestingly, when I recently contacted Siam cement about the danger of their products I received this from their representative:
‘……However, the content of Flat Sheet(the previous one of SFCC productwhich is cancelled right now) is safe for consumer because the type ofasbestos in Flat Sheet is chrysotile. ‘
The astonishing point here is the claim that chrysotile is ‘safe.’ The claim is ridiculous and brings to mind Dr. Castleman’s caution not to be taken in by the Thai asbestos industry’s (I take this to mean Siam Cement’s) propaganda claim that white asbestos is harmless. His comments, by the way, were made at the ‘ASIAN ASBESTOS CONFERENCE (AAC 2006) Protecting People from Asbestos. ‘ This is available on the internet.
If one is living in a house with as asbestos roof the health risks are minimal provided the material is undisturbed. More dangerous by far is public exposire arising from new construction projects and demolition. I would go so far as to say that most housing estates currently being built in Thailand have asbestos containing products. When this is cut large clouds of visible asbestos dust are released into the air. It’s a shocking sight: the workers wear no protective masks. Even if they did, this wouldn’t avoid the other obvious health danger: that released dust is free to travel to nearby residential areas (it doesn’t sink into the ground to become trapped but remains on the surface to be blown away later).
I am left wondering how Siam Cement (and others) will respond once an ever more educated populace starts to ask questions. There’s no wriggle room here: the dangers of asbestos have been thoroughly documented for half a century, at least!
[…] And while the long-time regional identification of forests as guarantors of water supply may be an ecological falsehood, it clearly has some sort of historical experience behind it: killing of the forests may not destroy water, but it certainly makes it less amenable to the sort of centralized control necessary for imperial life. […]
Maybe the Dalai Lama has nothing much to do with this really younger generation of Tibetans who have rioted all over Tibet and some of China’s provinces? Maybe he is essentially irrelevant to what is going on in these places now? Maybe these events represent a response to Chinese rule that is oppressive and exploitative? Maybe this younger generation realises that the peace and love stuff that has long emanated from the Phil Silvers lookalike feudalist, and that so captures the Hollywood and Californian acolytes, is meaningless drivel and that they need to be more confrontational? Maybe this is what China fears more than the Dalai Lama?
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Asbestos in Thailand
An interesting statistic worth noting is the current occupational exposure limit for asbestos, which in Thailand is set at 5 fibres per ml. The corresponding figure in the US is 0.1 fibers per ml. That’s a colossal 50 fold difference!
Of course, the higher the permitted exposure limit the less a company has to invest in the costly business of keeping a class 1 carcinogen out of the air. The tragedy is that the unfolding health crisis was (not is) completely avoidable:
“People in Asia are entitled to live and work in a healthy environment. We do not need to see another pile of bodies to prove that asbestos is a killer. The experiences of asbestos victims and afflicted communities in Europe, North America and Australia tell us all we need to know. Working together we can end this needless slaughter; Asia’s asbestos-free future starts here!” (Laurie Kazan-Allen, the Coordinator of the International Ban Asbestos Secretariat (IBAS) ).
A pity the government of Thailand, the world’s fourth largest asbestos importer, is unwilling to act on this message. I can only suppose that it is a case of profits before (other peoples) lives and a testament to the influence of wealthy and/or influential public figures. Why else, do I see TV ads on the dangers of aids, notices to observe smoking bans and yet not even a health warning on an asbestos containing product?
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Dog Lover- Yes, good point. I agree.
Other posters- Sorry for taking the discussion off track. Back to TKNS.
Interview with Justin Wintle
‘As for her poor degree performance, I subscribe to no particular ‘theory’. Maybe she wasn’t yet really up to it. Or maybe it was just her time of month. I remember well some Oxford undergraduettes [WHAT?] putting themselves on the pill a couple of months before the exams just to make sure they weren’t caught out that way. Managing the female calendar, it was called. But Suu Kyi would never have done that.’
Errrrr……??!! Laugh – cry? Heads – tails.
Welcome home Thaksin
Once a hero always a hero.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
You have no need to link Bhumibol to King Mongkut, for they are indeed related by blood, King Mongkut being Bhumibol’s great grandfather.
Spending 15 days in the monkhood is favored by many Thai men who hold regular jobs. It is not expected that much will be gained in the sense of the Dhamma, but it is believed that merit is gained by this act of being in the monkhood. It seems that a lot of Thais follow the motion of merit earning without actually doing things of real merit.
Interview with Justin Wintle
Laos has always been a slight blur in the peripheral vision of anyone seriously interested in writing about Southeast Asia (with a very few exceptions) . One could be forgiven for hardly noticing its existence, despite its peoples’ very central historical involvement in the shaping of mainland Southeast Asia. While perhaps few can do it well, it is much easier to write on those people and places in the region that are already in the global spotlight. I wonder how different Laos would be today if investigative authors like Justin did more than simply ‘pass through’ and write Vientiane off?
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Paul,
Especially interesting as the current monarch was selected by Phibul Songkram, based on factors other the purity of direct lineage playing a major role.
Asbestos in Thailand
If the roofing bothers you then I warn you not to visit your typical Thai mechanical shop where you normally see 14 year old boys working on brake pads. That being said, one just doesn’t hear about asbestos related diseases in Thailand so perhaps there is more concern regarding the roofing products than is perhaps warranted. Then again, perhaps statistics on mesothelioma, a fairly slow developing disease specific to asbestos exposure, are hidden behind the statistics for cirrhosis of the liver, other diseases, and traffic fatalities in Thailand which are statistically significant.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Somsak,
Interesting stuff! Another example of how this reign consciously seeks to identify with the most important reigns of the past, whether Sukhothai or Ayutthaya or Bangkok periods, to claim “direct” lineage and justify their family position. Besides Chulalongkorn, the palace has tried to tie King Bhumibol with King Mongkut, maybe even moreso. I’m sure observant Thais can see more of these small but important assertions of linkages than I could.
Borders, borders everywhere
Hello Mr. Farrelly,
I plan to visit Arunachal Pradesh and am grateful to you for your site and the information you give.
Ulka
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
To elaborate one my “maybes” – I said that, Maybe this is what China [govt] fears more than the Dalai Lama? I think the Chinese probably do fear these events because they are more widespread than the Tibet AR and for the fact that they cannot identify “leaders”. The Chinese Govt worries about “spontaneous” rebellions/riots/strikes etc. because they can see a potential for uprising in them. They have less to fear when these events involve ethnic minorities, but even here they fear fraying at the edges – Tibet, Xinjiang might lead to more, maybe. These “edges” are of vital concern to the Beijing regime. So I think they are worried and fearful.
Internationally, perhaps they don’t care too much about the views of the West, but they do worry about the pictures that cause their “peaceful rise” position to look entirely like propaganda.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Teth, my use of “the” with “Chinese” was intended to mean the Chinese administration (the government, including its officials). Their treatment of the Tibetans since the invasion has been extremely brutal. It has included mass slaughter, mass rape (including the public raping of Buddhist nuns), mass torture, and all of the specific elements necessary for the classification ‘genocide’ as a deliberate policy. A reaction against such treatment is “just,” IMO. Hong Kong and Macau people didn’t dispute that they are Chinese, and were not invaded. In fact the Hong Kong Chinese couldn’t wait for the British lease to expire. The Tibetans don’t see themselves or their land as Chinese, and were invaded. They don’t want the Chinese & never have.
The idea that you put forward in the 2nd half of your middle paragraph is fanciful – at present. However, as China comes more into economic prominence it does seem to be loosening up, & it is possible that they will eventually move in the direction of having the luxuries you list (as the West did) in some form. It’s a ‘maybe.’
Emotional tourism
You were faster with this story – had it in the drawer and somehow forgot about it.
What a glorious marketing. What were they smoking. So much sleaze in one ad. A reason sadly not to enjoy the beautiful bar up there anymore.
Hypocrites.
Asbestos in Thailand
I am left wondering how Siam Cement (and others) will respond once an ever more educated populace starts to ask questions. There’s no wriggle room here: the dangers of asbestos have been thoroughly documented for half a century, at least!
Sounds like an opportunity for a good lawyer to take on a class action to take on both SC and the overseas suppliers.
How to avoid meeting a similar fate to Somchai N?
Would lese majeste come in to play?
Would involvement of an international legal firm help avoid some of the pitfalls?
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Sometimes these arguments can go into a bit of over-generalization, especially with the the categorization of “the Chinese”. That’s over 1 billion people for you…
However, I really do sympathize with your statement that “The Chinese have shown themselves to be a people who know the price of everything & the value of nothing.” Many of them, especially the worst polluters, et cetera, are really odious. The environmental degradation China suffers is unbelievable… Maybe its time for an updated set of Confucian values. Say, checks-and-balances Confucius. Emphasize the respect and unity, but instead, focus it on things like rule of law, love of justice, and human rights rather than an entirely top-down relationship where even though the upper strata are technically duty-bound to the lower strata, only the obligation from the lower strata towards the upper ones are enforced.
Another note about Tibet, how much of the rioting is actually due to xenophobia? Seeing as all parts of China (excluding perhaps HK and Macao) are under a repressive dictatorship, is the Tibetan cause (reflected in the recent riots) really just? I’m all for the proposals from the Dalai Lama. What I don’t comprehend is why China doesn’t treat Tibet in a much more conservative version of “I’ll leave you alone, you’ll leave me alone” type fashion as it is doing in Hong Kong or Macao? And I always thought “the Chinese” were known for compromise.
Emotional tourism
So this is set up like a kharawan khon ruay where poverty is an after dinner spectacle? Do the humble natives of Surin have a dance they can do (Bangkok tourists are always happy to see a dance in the countryside)? Thanks for posting this. Lavish spending must feel good if you can be transported to gawk at the gentle poor people who are in harmony with nature and can only be reached by private jet. They are nothing like the poor in Bangkok, eh, who are oh so ordinary.
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Dog Lover – Maybe – maybe not.
The answer to your question, “Maybe these events represent a response to Chinese rule that is oppressive and exploitative?” is obvious, and I did say, “It’s their desire to stop the Chinese perpetration of genocide and the taking away of their civil rights.” In fact it’s so obvious that even the Chinese Ambassador to London admitted that they have understandable grievances, although she didn’t specify any, in a recent BBC World News interview. (Yes, of course she was only doing a PR damage-control thing, but she did say it.)
re. your ‘Phil Silvers Lookalike Feudalist Maybe’: Do the Tibetans inside Tibet know how the “Hollywood & Californian acolytes” hear & see the DL and the Tibetan situation? And would they understand their thinking? I agree with you that the trendoids & sycophants do cloud the issue with sentimentality & make it difficult to focus on the much more complex reality. But I think it’s a mistake to assume that they are the mouthpieces of the DL. He’s much more lucid, pragmatic, & flexible, and to call him a feudalist is to show ignorance of the way his thinking & perception have developed in exile. I don’t think he wants Tibet to go back to anything like what it was. Why would he want it to become a sort of ‘ethno-religeous zoo’? Anyway, it’s way too late.
In regard to whom or what the Chinese fear, I really don’t think there’s much at all. They don’t really have to. They know they can get away with almost anything; Western governments haven’t intervened yet, & why would they? Is anyone going to stop buying Chinese products? And would that help? (Look at Burma) China has had 7 years (13th July 2001) to keep its promises to do something about pollution & clean up their human rights act, and what has it done? Nothing much. This is well-known, but what are the other Olympic nations doing about it? Nothing much. “Maybe this younger generation…..need to become more confrontational.” If that means being violent & getting slaughtered, & having their freedom restricted further (because they CANNOT succeed), definitely not!
IMO the Chinese have shown themselves to be a people who know the price of everything & the value of nothing. They are doing their best to destroy not only a racial group, but a system of thought & thinking (& one that doesn’t have to be stuck in the archaic – the DL is evidence of that) that we can learn from.
Personally, I can’t stand Phil Silvers (he doesn’t look anything like the DL!), or any of those beige, wise-cracking Americans. (Lenny Bruce was good, though.) I’m more of a Monty Pythonesque person. That’s why I stay in Thailand.
Asbestos in Thailand
Interestingly, when I recently contacted Siam cement about the danger of their products I received this from their representative:
‘……However, the content of Flat Sheet(the previous one of SFCC productwhich is cancelled right now) is safe for consumer because the type ofasbestos in Flat Sheet is chrysotile. ‘
The astonishing point here is the claim that chrysotile is ‘safe.’ The claim is ridiculous and brings to mind Dr. Castleman’s caution not to be taken in by the Thai asbestos industry’s (I take this to mean Siam Cement’s) propaganda claim that white asbestos is harmless. His comments, by the way, were made at the ‘ASIAN ASBESTOS CONFERENCE (AAC 2006) Protecting People from Asbestos. ‘ This is available on the internet.
If one is living in a house with as asbestos roof the health risks are minimal provided the material is undisturbed. More dangerous by far is public exposire arising from new construction projects and demolition. I would go so far as to say that most housing estates currently being built in Thailand have asbestos containing products. When this is cut large clouds of visible asbestos dust are released into the air. It’s a shocking sight: the workers wear no protective masks. Even if they did, this wouldn’t avoid the other obvious health danger: that released dust is free to travel to nearby residential areas (it doesn’t sink into the ground to become trapped but remains on the surface to be blown away later).
I am left wondering how Siam Cement (and others) will respond once an ever more educated populace starts to ask questions. There’s no wriggle room here: the dangers of asbestos have been thoroughly documented for half a century, at least!
Royal hydrology
[…] And while the long-time regional identification of forests as guarantors of water supply may be an ecological falsehood, it clearly has some sort of historical experience behind it: killing of the forests may not destroy water, but it certainly makes it less amenable to the sort of centralized control necessary for imperial life. […]
Reynolds on Handley’s The King Never Smiles
Maybe the Dalai Lama has nothing much to do with this really younger generation of Tibetans who have rioted all over Tibet and some of China’s provinces? Maybe he is essentially irrelevant to what is going on in these places now? Maybe these events represent a response to Chinese rule that is oppressive and exploitative? Maybe this younger generation realises that the peace and love stuff that has long emanated from the Phil Silvers lookalike feudalist, and that so captures the Hollywood and Californian acolytes, is meaningless drivel and that they need to be more confrontational? Maybe this is what China fears more than the Dalai Lama?