Can someone confirm the rumour that soldiers from Sagaing, Chin and Magway provinces have mutinied and are marching on the Generals Capitol of Naypyidaw?
At last the (so called) civilised world seems to be picking up on an issue that some of us have been denouncing for years, namely the plight of the Burmese people, in particular the opposition National League for Democracy, and further the illegal detention of Aung San Suu Kyi. Alas, a country without oil or other plunderable resources seems to warrant little attention (this is not a modern phenomenon) and our global society seems condemned to repeat the mistakes of history. The only people who appear to speak out against such atrocities are the artists and activists. Our friends Pig have uploaded a song in support of burma and its people to their myspace page http://www.myspace.com/1933 its dedicated to all those in favour of humanity and respect for people you may never know. jimmy
As of today 8pm. Sept 27, Rangoon now turns a killing field. Thousand People are still on the street and the military is still shooting at the mass protest. I wonder if we can do anything at all to stop this killing field.
Hopefully the Burmese junta will be brought down. The Thai junta doesn’t want this because they are still afraid of the ‘domino effect’, which was actually a credible belief back during the Cold War, a time which the generals still think they’re in.
Reports are that Min of Foreign Affairs has refused to change the speech to say anything about Burma. But the pressure will be enormous from the US and Europeans.
It would really be nice if PM Surayud departs from the usual protocol bullshit and starts criticizing the Myanmar junta for its harsh and violent suppression of the monks-led protests.
General Sonthi is backscratching his Myanmar counterpart . . . if General Sonthi sincerely wants to break into politics, he should have started giving harsh scoldings to the Myanmar generals for their repression of the monks protests.
Westerners resemble Sonthi and his comments a lot more than they realise, despite their gratuituous displays of emotional outrage.
Apart from the cold analysis of killing that one might expect from a soldier, I found Sonthi’s political realism and analysis a nice change from what has been quite an emotional show and tell, like how can I outdo the last guy in rehashing events with hyperbolic adjectives, like what new names or deprecatory adjectives can I conjure up to call the generals. (Hint: Over the last 20 years they’ve all been used up.)
As far as more sanctimonious sanctions go, ***anything short of punishing China and Singapore*** for providing life support to the regime is ***gratuitous self-indulgence***.
We’ll condemn the regime but won’t say anything about the hypersensitive dictatorships (above) that make it’s continued existence possible.
Western hypocrisy or political realism of the sort Sonthi is addressing the Thai audience above with?
Many would find the idea of punishing China and Singapore for their support and active collaboration with the regime ridiculous. Too many other important interests are at stake in these relationships, they would say.
Pure moral outrage usually doesn’t lead to good analysis. The junta could well hang on as it has in the past. Then what?
Obviously westerners including myself would find Sonthi’s comments morally reprehensible. But these comments were in Thai and not meant for a western audience, so being a good anthropologist shouldn’t you try to analyse them from the ***emic standpoint of the viewing audience***, as you would, for instance, the democratic public opinion that supported killing over 2000 people without due process of law during the Thaksin drug war? That would be more enlightening. How different sectors of Thai society view Burma and how these attitudes developed over a long history of discourse studded with propaganda.
BTW As a Buddhist i am outraged by attacks on monks and when I lived in Yangon and turned on the TV everynight to watch Khin Nyunt and his cohorts make religious donations and perform ceremonies in belief that they would receive religious merit for this while they innocent civilians were hauled off as porters or unsuspecting youths press-ganged, well nausea would welled up inside of me, needless to say I turned off the TV.
Congragulations!!!! princess Srirasmi in your graduation in Home Economics .
Dont know why people have problem with her degree . She is the future queen and is she is studing in subjects she likes why should common man have any problems.
And please leave HRH Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn alone, from centuries King and princes have had many women and mistresses …i think its a part of their royal pleasure and charm.
A lay man should first think where they are and who they are commenting on the Royals.
Rreporter John Aglionby with the Jakarta bureau of the Financial Times has obtained a tourist visa at the Burmese embassy in Kuala Lumpur.
If he gets in, we should be getting some interesting stuff.
This response was predictable. It is surprising that the Thai government hasn’t altered news of the Burmese demonstrations accordingly. One thing I’d like to call attention to the following:
“I was informed that Burma uses dialogue to solve the problem, and senior Buddhist monks have helped negotiate to end the problem.”
If by “senior Buddhist monks,” he means the Sayadaws of the State Sangha Maha Nayaka Committee, then all they’ve done to “negotiate” is to push the Burmese junta’s propaganda. This propaganda downplays the demonstrations as being nothing more than naughty young monks who aren’t listening to their elders (when, in fact, respected elder monks have been taking part in protests).
What evidence? We must have read different books.
I accept the book was well researched, but I would be surprised if even Mr Handley thinks he produced any concrete evidence.
Pity a defendant in any court in which you were a judge or juror.
Watching the reaction of the security forces and the virtual inaction of the world I am reminded of a part of a poem by William Butler Yeats :
“Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
I was on my way out the door when I wrote my response to your question, and I hope I didn’t sound too flip. The issue of Rawang religion probably is a factor, but maybe not in the way you might think. Even if the Rawangs are Christians with the common (in my experience) Kachin antipathy to Buddhism, they still know that killing monks is something of a social blunder in the broader Burmese society. Besides, based on the reports the RRF has something in the neighborhood of 500 troops, while there are tens of thousands of monks demonstrating in several cities across the country. The military regime needs a lot more than 500 troops willing to shoot or beat monks, and all the reports indicate they have them.
I think the goal would more likely be to keep fomenting communal strife, even in cases where none has previously existed, in order to maintain power. Dictatorships frequently preach national unity, but in practice do everything possible to set different groups at each others throats. Even though the monks and civilian Burman Buddhists may clearly see that the Burman-dominated, Buddhist military regime is using on a group of non-Burman Christians as pawns to shoot monks, the reality will be that they did in fact shoot the monks, if it comes to that. There will therefore be more animosity and distrust, and every division in the broader society, however small, works to the regime’s advantage.
It is definitely worth keeping an eye out to see what kind of role the RRF plays.
Did anyone post Gen Sonthi’s comments, apparently from an interview, which was reported on TV last night?:
“Regarding the dispersal of demonstrations, the Burmese government did not use military force. Police was deployed. That was the right approach. It has been used by every country–that the military must step back to let police take charge. But the actual tactics may vary from country to country. However, I think there is no violence in the current situation. Everything is under control. The Burmese government is still in control of the situation. On the reports that Buddhist monks were assaulted [during the dispersal of demonstrations], that cannot be concluded just from looking at the photos. As it happened in Thailand, sometimes people used violence against officials. So officials may have to defend themselves. There has been no political suppression. Burmese authorities should understand that it–getting Buddhist monks involved in the demonstrations–is a tactic used by demonstrators. So Burmese authorities understand that they cannot use violence against Buddhist monks. They must use soft approach. I was informed that Burma uses dialogue to solve the problem, and senior Buddhist monks have helped negotiate to end the problem. I do not think Burma will care [about international pressure], because it does not really depend on anyone. Burma has been taking care of itself all along. It does not accept interference from outside. Moreover, there are many countries that have discretely helped protect Burma–such as China and Korea. That is because Burma has plenty natural resources that many major powers want to have their hand on. We are neighbor [of Burma]. If we get involved, that will undermine our relationship.”
“Handley, Republican, you, me – we all have opinions, but where is the real evidence?” Well, Handley does provide evidence. That’s the point really. Where are the errors? No one says…. All the naysayers have opinions but no evidence that I can see (so far).
[…] Sue wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick [email protected] (Leigh Connelly) wrote an interesting post today onHere’sa quick excerptSrithanonchai, funny example of AjarnPasuk’s hair style! On this case, I believe I gave a better example of Fox News and how the same set of … […]
The Rawangs are largely Christian, so they certainly don’t think they deterred by the fact that they were monks, but then the Burmese military hasn’t shown any reluctance to shoot their co-religionists.
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New Burma blog
Can someone confirm the rumour that soldiers from Sagaing, Chin and Magway provinces have mutinied and are marching on the Generals Capitol of Naypyidaw?
Another new Burma blog: fifty viss
At last the (so called) civilised world seems to be picking up on an issue that some of us have been denouncing for years, namely the plight of the Burmese people, in particular the opposition National League for Democracy, and further the illegal detention of Aung San Suu Kyi. Alas, a country without oil or other plunderable resources seems to warrant little attention (this is not a modern phenomenon) and our global society seems condemned to repeat the mistakes of history. The only people who appear to speak out against such atrocities are the artists and activists. Our friends Pig have uploaded a song in support of burma and its people to their myspace page http://www.myspace.com/1933 its dedicated to all those in favour of humanity and respect for people you may never know. jimmy
Thailand’s mad junta
[…] from here – well worth taking a look […]
Thailand’s mad junta
As of today 8pm. Sept 27, Rangoon now turns a killing field. Thousand People are still on the street and the military is still shooting at the mass protest. I wonder if we can do anything at all to stop this killing field.
Thailand’s mad junta
Hopefully the Burmese junta will be brought down. The Thai junta doesn’t want this because they are still afraid of the ‘domino effect’, which was actually a credible belief back during the Cold War, a time which the generals still think they’re in.
Shan conference in London, December 2007
Please refer to the recent book “The Shan: Culture Arts and Crafts” published in 2006 by River Books, scBangkok
Thailand’s mad junta
Reports are that Min of Foreign Affairs has refused to change the speech to say anything about Burma. But the pressure will be enormous from the US and Europeans.
Thailand’s mad junta
One dictatorship supporting another, what is the surprise?
Thailand’s mad junta
It would really be nice if PM Surayud departs from the usual protocol bullshit and starts criticizing the Myanmar junta for its harsh and violent suppression of the monks-led protests.
General Sonthi is backscratching his Myanmar counterpart . . . if General Sonthi sincerely wants to break into politics, he should have started giving harsh scoldings to the Myanmar generals for their repression of the monks protests.
Thailand’s mad junta
Westerners resemble Sonthi and his comments a lot more than they realise, despite their gratuituous displays of emotional outrage.
Apart from the cold analysis of killing that one might expect from a soldier, I found Sonthi’s political realism and analysis a nice change from what has been quite an emotional show and tell, like how can I outdo the last guy in rehashing events with hyperbolic adjectives, like what new names or deprecatory adjectives can I conjure up to call the generals. (Hint: Over the last 20 years they’ve all been used up.)
As far as more sanctimonious sanctions go, ***anything short of punishing China and Singapore*** for providing life support to the regime is ***gratuitous self-indulgence***.
We’ll condemn the regime but won’t say anything about the hypersensitive dictatorships (above) that make it’s continued existence possible.
Western hypocrisy or political realism of the sort Sonthi is addressing the Thai audience above with?
Many would find the idea of punishing China and Singapore for their support and active collaboration with the regime ridiculous. Too many other important interests are at stake in these relationships, they would say.
Pure moral outrage usually doesn’t lead to good analysis. The junta could well hang on as it has in the past. Then what?
Obviously westerners including myself would find Sonthi’s comments morally reprehensible. But these comments were in Thai and not meant for a western audience, so being a good anthropologist shouldn’t you try to analyse them from the ***emic standpoint of the viewing audience***, as you would, for instance, the democratic public opinion that supported killing over 2000 people without due process of law during the Thaksin drug war? That would be more enlightening. How different sectors of Thai society view Burma and how these attitudes developed over a long history of discourse studded with propaganda.
BTW As a Buddhist i am outraged by attacks on monks and when I lived in Yangon and turned on the TV everynight to watch Khin Nyunt and his cohorts make religious donations and perform ceremonies in belief that they would receive religious merit for this while they innocent civilians were hauled off as porters or unsuspecting youths press-ganged, well nausea would welled up inside of me, needless to say I turned off the TV.
Thailand’s crown prince
Congragulations!!!! princess Srirasmi in your graduation in Home Economics .
Dont know why people have problem with her degree . She is the future queen and is she is studing in subjects she likes why should common man have any problems.
And please leave HRH Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn alone, from centuries King and princes have had many women and mistresses …i think its a part of their royal pleasure and charm.
A lay man should first think where they are and who they are commenting on the Royals.
Academic commentary on Burma uprising
Rreporter John Aglionby with the Jakarta bureau of the Financial Times has obtained a tourist visa at the Burmese embassy in Kuala Lumpur.
If he gets in, we should be getting some interesting stuff.
Thailand’s mad junta
This response was predictable. It is surprising that the Thai government hasn’t altered news of the Burmese demonstrations accordingly. One thing I’d like to call attention to the following:
“I was informed that Burma uses dialogue to solve the problem, and senior Buddhist monks have helped negotiate to end the problem.”
If by “senior Buddhist monks,” he means the Sayadaws of the State Sangha Maha Nayaka Committee, then all they’ve done to “negotiate” is to push the Burmese junta’s propaganda. This propaganda downplays the demonstrations as being nothing more than naughty young monks who aren’t listening to their elders (when, in fact, respected elder monks have been taking part in protests).
Interview with Paul Handley
What evidence? We must have read different books.
I accept the book was well researched, but I would be surprised if even Mr Handley thinks he produced any concrete evidence.
Pity a defendant in any court in which you were a judge or juror.
Kachin news on repression in Burma
Watching the reaction of the security forces and the virtual inaction of the world I am reminded of a part of a poem by William Butler Yeats :
“Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
More on the Rebellion Resistance Force
James,
I was on my way out the door when I wrote my response to your question, and I hope I didn’t sound too flip. The issue of Rawang religion probably is a factor, but maybe not in the way you might think. Even if the Rawangs are Christians with the common (in my experience) Kachin antipathy to Buddhism, they still know that killing monks is something of a social blunder in the broader Burmese society. Besides, based on the reports the RRF has something in the neighborhood of 500 troops, while there are tens of thousands of monks demonstrating in several cities across the country. The military regime needs a lot more than 500 troops willing to shoot or beat monks, and all the reports indicate they have them.
I think the goal would more likely be to keep fomenting communal strife, even in cases where none has previously existed, in order to maintain power. Dictatorships frequently preach national unity, but in practice do everything possible to set different groups at each others throats. Even though the monks and civilian Burman Buddhists may clearly see that the Burman-dominated, Buddhist military regime is using on a group of non-Burman Christians as pawns to shoot monks, the reality will be that they did in fact shoot the monks, if it comes to that. There will therefore be more animosity and distrust, and every division in the broader society, however small, works to the regime’s advantage.
It is definitely worth keeping an eye out to see what kind of role the RRF plays.
Academic commentary on Burma uprising
Did anyone post Gen Sonthi’s comments, apparently from an interview, which was reported on TV last night?:
“Regarding the dispersal of demonstrations, the Burmese government did not use military force. Police was deployed. That was the right approach. It has been used by every country–that the military must step back to let police take charge. But the actual tactics may vary from country to country. However, I think there is no violence in the current situation. Everything is under control. The Burmese government is still in control of the situation. On the reports that Buddhist monks were assaulted [during the dispersal of demonstrations], that cannot be concluded just from looking at the photos. As it happened in Thailand, sometimes people used violence against officials. So officials may have to defend themselves. There has been no political suppression. Burmese authorities should understand that it–getting Buddhist monks involved in the demonstrations–is a tactic used by demonstrators. So Burmese authorities understand that they cannot use violence against Buddhist monks. They must use soft approach. I was informed that Burma uses dialogue to solve the problem, and senior Buddhist monks have helped negotiate to end the problem. I do not think Burma will care [about international pressure], because it does not really depend on anyone. Burma has been taking care of itself all along. It does not accept interference from outside. Moreover, there are many countries that have discretely helped protect Burma–such as China and Korea. That is because Burma has plenty natural resources that many major powers want to have their hand on. We are neighbor [of Burma]. If we get involved, that will undermine our relationship.”
Interview with Paul Handley
“Handley, Republican, you, me – we all have opinions, but where is the real evidence?” Well, Handley does provide evidence. That’s the point really. Where are the errors? No one says…. All the naysayers have opinions but no evidence that I can see (so far).
Interview with Paul Handley
[…] Sue wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick [email protected] (Leigh Connelly) wrote an interesting post today onHere’sa quick excerptSrithanonchai, funny example of AjarnPasuk’s hair style! On this case, I believe I gave a better example of Fox News and how the same set of … […]
More on the Rebellion Resistance Force
The Rawangs are largely Christian, so they certainly don’t think they deterred by the fact that they were monks, but then the Burmese military hasn’t shown any reluctance to shoot their co-religionists.