Another essay worth reading on Buddhism and Science is: David McMahan, “Modernity and the Discourse of Scientific Buddhism.” Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 72, No. 4 (2004), 897-933.
Some of the most recent interesting thoughts about historiography, Theravada chronicles and understanding the Buddhist past, in my opinion, can be found in: Stephen Berkwitz, “Buddhist History in the Vernacular: The Power of the Past in Late Medieval Sri Lanka”, (Leiden: Brill, 2004). Unfortunately, it is a very expensive academic text. Fortunately, it is a Google scanned book and can be found in their expanding electronic book library.
Actually, the reason I brought Popper up was that he provides a solution to the so-called Induction Problem (See Bertrand Russell) also known as the Black Swan (in Australia) Problem or the Turkey Problem, which really has a Buddhist ring to it, namely the little turkey comes quickly to believe from induction that his human care giver will always give him care, but of course on the day before Thanksgiving (or Guy Fawkes Day or Christmas) he wrings his neck. There was absolutely no evidence that he would do this, that he was so cruel. In fact, Popper states that all hypotheses about the world must be falsifiable, but the only ones you know for sure are the ones that you successfully falsified, like the, in retrospect, incorrect belief that human care givers are kind, or like:
Annica = no permanence
Anatta = no self
Dukha = no thukha (pleasure)
Being socialised in both cultures, I have to admit that I am torn between the sides although I take the western position intellectually and the Thai position emotionally.
There are many other countries where visitors (and even expats) are not supposed to comment on internal matters – a kind of cultural etiquette, so to say. Just a reminder. Where the national confidence is lacking, every bad comment from outsiders is taken sourly.
“…it’s hard to imagine from the outside, but inside there is a great poverty, not just an economic poverty, but of ideas and imagination because of the way in which two generations of people have been shut off. And I think that until that isolation starts to fall away, until Burma is more connected to the outside world, we’re not going to have easy solutions to the many different problems of governance and economic problems that you have in the country today.”
And there’s no substitute for de-isolation, for getting “more connected to the outside world.” It’s not like Burma can wait another 20 years and then play catchup, do 20 years of development in 5.
The powers that be in Burma are bad, very bad, but the way to change that is not further or continued isolation, economic sanctions or boycotts. This hasn’t worked, so naturally new solutions have to be searched for, rather than repeating the old, over and over again, ad nauseam. China and Singapore are the little oxygen tubes that keep the severely malnourished regime breathing, so any action short of simply ignoring the regime and carrying on business and educational exchange with its people in spite of it, are probably not going to be effective.
Meanwhile, while all the intellectuals and activists are debating issues and taking heroic stances, people are dieing from easily preventable causes (government hospitals can’t even do the most basic medical tests) or leading less full lives than they could, if Burma was open to the world and achieved some level of globalisation, for Burma has to be the most unglobalised place in Asia, if not the world. The place that proves that at least some globalisation is a good thing.
The current approach is just dysfunctional, unbearable, and depressing.
Re: B. Alan Wallace, Buddhism and Science, thanks for the reference, I’ll have to look into it. I haven’t read anything in this area, so mine are only casual musings.
David: “It’s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism’s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the ‘empirical world’ (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science’s need.”
This is a useful observation for me. I am interested in the philosophy of science (which deals mostly with scientific method) and how it relates to historiography, particularly Burmese historiography which is heavily influenced by Buddhism.
There is a tension between, for instance, the more positivist interpretation of historical texts of Than Tun who was educated in the British era (valorizing inscriptions and royal orders, discounting chronicle texts) and for instance the continually evolving literary interpretations in Buddhist chronicle texts. U Kala Mahayazawingyi chronicle, for instance, begins at the beginning of the universe with succesive recreations and covers the social contract of the first Mahasammata (Mahathammada king), much of this being adapted from the Sri Lankan Sasana Vamsa, kind of “Buddhist social science” or socio-political philosophy as opposed to the western you see in universities, i.e. Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke, Montesquieie, etc…
David W., sorry to say this, but those Thammayut Nikai northeastern forest meditation masters are too busy trying to kick out the Mahanikai interim Supreme Patriarch than in trying to understand the latest advances in the neurosciences.
I have read a fair bit of the philosophy of Buddhism, as well as philosophical reflections upon Buddhism, and I haven’t come across anyone who has argued that Buddhist teachings and philosophy are comparable to Popperian positivism. And I simply don’t understand how the idea of anicca (that all phenomenon is conditioned and thus not eternal) has anything to do with empistemological claims about truth and falsifiability as proposed by Popper.
We clearly have radically different understandings of Buddhism as an intellectual system. While there is philosophy in it (of a particular Indian style; not to be confused with Western philosophy), it is not a philosophy per se. It is a soteriology, a method for achieving liberation from a samsaric world. It’s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism’s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the ’empirical world’ (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science’s need. There might be points of overlap, taken out of context, but they are strikingly different intellectual projects regarding their methods, goals, principles, etc. And I don’t think this fact does a diservice to either Buddhism or science as valuable exercises or human achievements.
But really, the book I suggested in an earlier post really does an excellent job of discussing such issues. There are also some fine essays on the matter in the Encyclopedia of Religion and the Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Well worth hunting down and then pursuing their suggested readings if one wants to delve into the topic in more detail.
There’s a famous court case that listed a set of features necessary for Christian creationism to qualify as a scientific theory (it didn’t according to the court):
1. It is guided by natural law.
2. It has to be explanatory by reference to natural law.
3. It is testable against the empirical world.
4. Its conclusions are tentative, i.e. are not necessarily the final word.
5. It is falsifiable.
(McLean vs. Arkansas Board of Education, 1982)
The last element, associated with philosopher of science Karl Popper seems to be very much in the spirit of the Buddhist notion of anicca. Buddhism seems to have a method built into it, rather than dogmatic belief in certain miracles.
This creates an interesting feedback loop: if Thai producers think that pirates wont pirate royalty-related films, they’ll make more of them. Soon, all Thai movies will somehow be associated with the palace. Pirates, driven for their love of the monarchy but hurt by their inability to sell any Thai films, will increase piracy of foreign films.
The end result: Foreign film-makers get screwed, the monarchy gets free propaganda.
“Why is Burma referred to as “Hongsawadee” in the Movie “Naresuan”? As far as I know Hongsawadee was the Mon kingdom in South Burma which itself was hostile to the Burman who ruled from Taungoo. And it was in fact the Taungoo rulers who attacked Ayutthaya.”
Hongsawaddy = Hanthawaddy = Pegu
The Burmese were displaced from Ava near Mandalay to Toungoo after a Tai invasion in 1524-27. Burmese Toungoo began a series of attacks against Pegu starting in the early 1530s after the Tais took Prome which is roughly parallel with and close to Toungoo, posing a threat to Toungoo. The section “Toungoo’s Southward Expansion Against Pegu (1535-1539)” (pages 105-115) in my paper:
Fernquest, Jon (2005). “Min-gyi-nyo, the Shan Invasions of Ava (1524-27), and the Beginnings of Expansionary Warfare in Toungoo Burma: 1486-1539,” SOAS Bulletin of Burma Research, Vol. 3, No. 2, Autumn 2005 (available here).
BTW Naresuan’s ideological employment dates way back to the nineteenth century before Prince Damrong according to the book: Nidhi Eoseewong (2006) Pen and Sail: Literature and History in Early Bangkok, Silkworm Press For contention
between Burma, Lao, Lanna, and Ayutthaya over control of Northern Thailand during Naresuan’s regime, see my paper:
Fernquest, Jon (2005). “The Flight of Lao War Captives From Burma Back to Laos in 1596: A Comparison of Historical Sources”, SOAS Bulletin of Burma Research, Vol. 3, No. 1, Spring 2005, pp. 1-26 (available here).
For a bizarre analogue of Naresuan (Thai-Burma) in Thai-Lao relations see the paper on so-called Nakhon Ratchasima “resistance hero” Grandma Mo in this book:
2002, Cultural Crisis and Social Memory: Modernity and Identity in Thailand and Laos (ed. with Shigeharu Tanabe) Richmond, Surrey, UK: Routledge Curzon.
“And for the record, classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states are not abstract philosophical issues from the Buddhist perspective. They are foundational and essential if one believes that liberations from dukkha and samsara are supremely important goals, as the Buddha asserted. If they are abstract (and presumably from your perspective irrelevant or at least not so importantly relevant), then so is one of the central guiding goals of Theravada Buddhism.”
I don’t think they are irrelevant, hooking up “classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states” is important in and of itself, replacing magic with science (in Malinowski’s sense of the terms), replacing the local with the universal, but from where I am and have been situated, the most important aspect of that is that people will rely less on magic, and this is no abstraction on my part, I’ve witnessed everything from seances to every kind of ghost, to what in Burmese is called an auk-lan (outland) saya (black magician) hired to put a hex on the lover of someone’s 60 year old father, I won’t elaborate. Or believing that cancer was caused by a spell by hostile villagers on an outsider, actually the little exorcism was performed before they knew it was cancer. U Nu’s 1961 Thaka Ala play features the burning of a woman’s longyi (sarong) in a magic candle as part of a love hex..Quaritch Wales book on Southeast Asian warfare book has an ancient warrior chanting incantations over ground human foetus (Kuman Tong, I believe) used to make an amulet for invulnerability…I don’t openly disagreement in an culturally ugly fashion, to be sure, but I just can’t help my nagging scepticism about all this stuff…
david w: Well briefly, the brain has two hippocampi which form part of the limbic system. The limbic system is what neuro scientists believe to be where emotional memory is ‘stored’ for lack of a better word. The hippocampus is where the longer term memories are found. However, the hippcampus also has links to the visual cortex and spatial awareness (which the limbic system does not) The physical nature of the hippocampus is like tough gristle. Tasteless yet bitter like the truth.
“As for now, the illicit market is flourishing. Thailand is among the world’s top-three distributors of pirated films along with China and Russia, according to the Motion Picture Association of Thailand. Although technically illegal, pirated CDs, DVDs and computer software can be found everywhere in Bangkok. Vendors don’t need to hide.”
It’s actually difficult to even tell whether you are watching a fake. If you rent from Tsutaya (Japanese Chain) I would assume you aren’t renting a fake. In the provinces there are a lot of shops that compete directly with Tsutaya that have a lot more films that are a little cheaper but quality is often bad, so people avoid them. With pharmaceuticals it could be the same if people realised it.
IMHO The main problem about IP rights is that without the pirating (like pharmaceuticals) there would probably be no price negotiation to bring the prices down to affordability. The Tsutaya price is probably relatively the same (as percentage of income) as a Blockbuster price in the US, but I doubt it got to that level without the influence of pirating mediating IP monopoly rights a bit.
Overall Thailand would be better without piracy of software and music, I bet. It would force the society to rely more on their own music, films (which they do already, with some wonderful works), and improve open source software for their own needs instead of playing into Microsoft’s hands.
It does seem that pirating foreign media and software is a lot more acceptable than Thai media and software, but that’s probably because there is a realisation that pirating their own stuff is going to have a predatory and negative effect on innovation in Thailand.
The observation the author makes that its probably a powerful person in charge of the piracy, I bet is true. Also most of the actual enforcement seems to be against unlucky unpowerful people, basically entrapment, a setup, a scam by the police, whether it is IP or drug enforcement, they have quotas, and they find a plausible victim to sacrifice, then set him up. I once had someone trying to, rather ridiculously, convince me to make mass copies of CDs, presumably because I had computer skills. I just laughed. I am not a criminal, unless critical thought is a crime.
Jon: I can fully sympathize with your concerns and anger over the moral inequalities and immorally disfunctional uses and consequences of scientific technologies, applications and methods. That is however a separate topic than the one I was addressing. Whether it is more relevant and important than what I was discussing is another issue. I was addressing the issue of Buddhism and Science as I imagined it would be discussed at the forthcoming conference.
And for the record, classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states are not abstract philosophical issues from the Buddhist perspective. They are foundational and essential if one believes that liberations from dukkha and samsara are supremely important goals, as the Buddha asserted. If they are abstract (and presumably from your perspective irrelevant or at least not so importantly relevant), then so is one of the central guiding goals of Theravada Buddhism.
Pig Latin: I don’t feel comfortable responding to, in essence, what would have to be my assumptions about what you are implying in a rather oblique and somewhat cryptic fashion. Of course, neuroscientists disagree with each other a lot about a lot of things (just like Buddhists), so even if I got the general gist of what you are implying, I’m not sure I would still know what particular claim you are advancing. Hence, it’s difficult to respond.
Lack of Journalist Ethics at “р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╣Вр╕Ир╕Щ” – Student Letter of Protest at Matichon’s Report of an Anti-Dictatorship Demonstration in London – from Prachatai http://www.prachatai.com/webboard/topic.php?id=185134
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‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
Jon:
Another essay worth reading on Buddhism and Science is: David McMahan, “Modernity and the Discourse of Scientific Buddhism.” Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 72, No. 4 (2004), 897-933.
Some of the most recent interesting thoughts about historiography, Theravada chronicles and understanding the Buddhist past, in my opinion, can be found in: Stephen Berkwitz, “Buddhist History in the Vernacular: The Power of the Past in Late Medieval Sri Lanka”, (Leiden: Brill, 2004). Unfortunately, it is a very expensive academic text. Fortunately, it is a Google scanned book and can be found in their expanding electronic book library.
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
Actually, the reason I brought Popper up was that he provides a solution to the so-called Induction Problem (See Bertrand Russell) also known as the Black Swan (in Australia) Problem or the Turkey Problem, which really has a Buddhist ring to it, namely the little turkey comes quickly to believe from induction that his human care giver will always give him care, but of course on the day before Thanksgiving (or Guy Fawkes Day or Christmas) he wrings his neck. There was absolutely no evidence that he would do this, that he was so cruel. In fact, Popper states that all hypotheses about the world must be falsifiable, but the only ones you know for sure are the ones that you successfully falsified, like the, in retrospect, incorrect belief that human care givers are kind, or like:
Annica = no permanence
Anatta = no self
Dukha = no thukha (pleasure)
That the Buddha falsified.
Provocative stuff from around the blogs
Being socialised in both cultures, I have to admit that I am torn between the sides although I take the western position intellectually and the Thai position emotionally.
There are many other countries where visitors (and even expats) are not supposed to comment on internal matters – a kind of cultural etiquette, so to say. Just a reminder. Where the national confidence is lacking, every bad comment from outsiders is taken sourly.
Burma history: “Tragedy in the Golden Land”
“…it’s hard to imagine from the outside, but inside there is a great poverty, not just an economic poverty, but of ideas and imagination because of the way in which two generations of people have been shut off. And I think that until that isolation starts to fall away, until Burma is more connected to the outside world, we’re not going to have easy solutions to the many different problems of governance and economic problems that you have in the country today.”
And there’s no substitute for de-isolation, for getting “more connected to the outside world.” It’s not like Burma can wait another 20 years and then play catchup, do 20 years of development in 5.
The powers that be in Burma are bad, very bad, but the way to change that is not further or continued isolation, economic sanctions or boycotts. This hasn’t worked, so naturally new solutions have to be searched for, rather than repeating the old, over and over again, ad nauseam. China and Singapore are the little oxygen tubes that keep the severely malnourished regime breathing, so any action short of simply ignoring the regime and carrying on business and educational exchange with its people in spite of it, are probably not going to be effective.
Meanwhile, while all the intellectuals and activists are debating issues and taking heroic stances, people are dieing from easily preventable causes (government hospitals can’t even do the most basic medical tests) or leading less full lives than they could, if Burma was open to the world and achieved some level of globalisation, for Burma has to be the most unglobalised place in Asia, if not the world. The place that proves that at least some globalisation is a good thing.
The current approach is just dysfunctional, unbearable, and depressing.
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
Re: B. Alan Wallace, Buddhism and Science, thanks for the reference, I’ll have to look into it. I haven’t read anything in this area, so mine are only casual musings.
David: “It’s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism’s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the ‘empirical world’ (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science’s need.”
This is a useful observation for me. I am interested in the philosophy of science (which deals mostly with scientific method) and how it relates to historiography, particularly Burmese historiography which is heavily influenced by Buddhism.
There is a tension between, for instance, the more positivist interpretation of historical texts of Than Tun who was educated in the British era (valorizing inscriptions and royal orders, discounting chronicle texts) and for instance the continually evolving literary interpretations in Buddhist chronicle texts. U Kala Mahayazawingyi chronicle, for instance, begins at the beginning of the universe with succesive recreations and covers the social contract of the first Mahasammata (Mahathammada king), much of this being adapted from the Sri Lankan Sasana Vamsa, kind of “Buddhist social science” or socio-political philosophy as opposed to the western you see in universities, i.e. Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke, Montesquieie, etc…
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
David W., sorry to say this, but those Thammayut Nikai northeastern forest meditation masters are too busy trying to kick out the Mahanikai interim Supreme Patriarch than in trying to understand the latest advances in the neurosciences.
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
I have read a fair bit of the philosophy of Buddhism, as well as philosophical reflections upon Buddhism, and I haven’t come across anyone who has argued that Buddhist teachings and philosophy are comparable to Popperian positivism. And I simply don’t understand how the idea of anicca (that all phenomenon is conditioned and thus not eternal) has anything to do with empistemological claims about truth and falsifiability as proposed by Popper.
We clearly have radically different understandings of Buddhism as an intellectual system. While there is philosophy in it (of a particular Indian style; not to be confused with Western philosophy), it is not a philosophy per se. It is a soteriology, a method for achieving liberation from a samsaric world. It’s underlying logic has little do, if anything, with the search for causal explanations of material phenomenon and processes, ala modern Western science. Buddhism’s epistemological concerns with and need to explain the ’empirical world’ (which is conceptualized quite differently from the Indian perspective when compared with the Greek) is much more limited and narrow than modern science’s need. There might be points of overlap, taken out of context, but they are strikingly different intellectual projects regarding their methods, goals, principles, etc. And I don’t think this fact does a diservice to either Buddhism or science as valuable exercises or human achievements.
But really, the book I suggested in an earlier post really does an excellent job of discussing such issues. There are also some fine essays on the matter in the Encyclopedia of Religion and the Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Well worth hunting down and then pursuing their suggested readings if one wants to delve into the topic in more detail.
Blocking Blogspot and more…
Saturday People Against Dictatorship plans an anti-coup rally and will give away Jatukam Ramathep amulets
I wonder does that constitute being paid to protest?
New Rambo and Free Burma
Here is the trailer as well as the trailers of the previous Rambos:
Rambo-iv.com
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
There’s a famous court case that listed a set of features necessary for Christian creationism to qualify as a scientific theory (it didn’t according to the court):
1. It is guided by natural law.
2. It has to be explanatory by reference to natural law.
3. It is testable against the empirical world.
4. Its conclusions are tentative, i.e. are not necessarily the final word.
5. It is falsifiable.
(McLean vs. Arkansas Board of Education, 1982)
The last element, associated with philosopher of science Karl Popper seems to be very much in the spirit of the Buddhist notion of anicca. Buddhism seems to have a method built into it, rather than dogmatic belief in certain miracles.
“In Thailand we respect the king. Nobody dares to make a copy.”
This creates an interesting feedback loop: if Thai producers think that pirates wont pirate royalty-related films, they’ll make more of them. Soon, all Thai movies will somehow be associated with the palace. Pirates, driven for their love of the monarchy but hurt by their inability to sell any Thai films, will increase piracy of foreign films.
The end result: Foreign film-makers get screwed, the monarchy gets free propaganda.
Thai cinematic war with Burma
“Why is Burma referred to as “Hongsawadee” in the Movie “Naresuan”? As far as I know Hongsawadee was the Mon kingdom in South Burma which itself was hostile to the Burman who ruled from Taungoo. And it was in fact the Taungoo rulers who attacked Ayutthaya.”
Hongsawaddy = Hanthawaddy = Pegu
The Burmese were displaced from Ava near Mandalay to Toungoo after a Tai invasion in 1524-27. Burmese Toungoo began a series of attacks against Pegu starting in the early 1530s after the Tais took Prome which is roughly parallel with and close to Toungoo, posing a threat to Toungoo. The section “Toungoo’s Southward Expansion Against Pegu (1535-1539)” (pages 105-115) in my paper:
Fernquest, Jon (2005). “Min-gyi-nyo, the Shan Invasions of Ava (1524-27), and the Beginnings of Expansionary Warfare in Toungoo Burma: 1486-1539,” SOAS Bulletin of Burma Research, Vol. 3, No. 2, Autumn 2005 (available here).
BTW Naresuan’s ideological employment dates way back to the nineteenth century before Prince Damrong according to the book: Nidhi Eoseewong (2006) Pen and Sail: Literature and History in Early Bangkok, Silkworm Press For contention
between Burma, Lao, Lanna, and Ayutthaya over control of Northern Thailand during Naresuan’s regime, see my paper:
Fernquest, Jon (2005). “The Flight of Lao War Captives From Burma Back to Laos in 1596: A Comparison of Historical Sources”, SOAS Bulletin of Burma Research, Vol. 3, No. 1, Spring 2005, pp. 1-26 (available here).
For a bizarre analogue of Naresuan (Thai-Burma) in Thai-Lao relations see the paper on so-called Nakhon Ratchasima “resistance hero” Grandma Mo in this book:
2002, Cultural Crisis and Social Memory: Modernity and Identity in Thailand and Laos (ed. with Shigeharu Tanabe) Richmond, Surrey, UK: Routledge Curzon.
Provocative stuff from around the blogs
[…] post on New Mandala today led me to another provocative post by Fonzi on Thailand Jumped the Shark. The issue in […]
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
“And for the record, classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states are not abstract philosophical issues from the Buddhist perspective. They are foundational and essential if one believes that liberations from dukkha and samsara are supremely important goals, as the Buddha asserted. If they are abstract (and presumably from your perspective irrelevant or at least not so importantly relevant), then so is one of the central guiding goals of Theravada Buddhism.”
I don’t think they are irrelevant, hooking up “classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states” is important in and of itself, replacing magic with science (in Malinowski’s sense of the terms), replacing the local with the universal, but from where I am and have been situated, the most important aspect of that is that people will rely less on magic, and this is no abstraction on my part, I’ve witnessed everything from seances to every kind of ghost, to what in Burmese is called an auk-lan (outland) saya (black magician) hired to put a hex on the lover of someone’s 60 year old father, I won’t elaborate. Or believing that cancer was caused by a spell by hostile villagers on an outsider, actually the little exorcism was performed before they knew it was cancer. U Nu’s 1961 Thaka Ala play features the burning of a woman’s longyi (sarong) in a magic candle as part of a love hex..Quaritch Wales book on Southeast Asian warfare book has an ancient warrior chanting incantations over ground human foetus (Kuman Tong, I believe) used to make an amulet for invulnerability…I don’t openly disagreement in an culturally ugly fashion, to be sure, but I just can’t help my nagging scepticism about all this stuff…
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
david w: Well briefly, the brain has two hippocampi which form part of the limbic system. The limbic system is what neuro scientists believe to be where emotional memory is ‘stored’ for lack of a better word. The hippocampus is where the longer term memories are found. However, the hippcampus also has links to the visual cortex and spatial awareness (which the limbic system does not) The physical nature of the hippocampus is like tough gristle. Tasteless yet bitter like the truth.
“In Thailand we respect the king. Nobody dares to make a copy.”
“As for now, the illicit market is flourishing. Thailand is among the world’s top-three distributors of pirated films along with China and Russia, according to the Motion Picture Association of Thailand. Although technically illegal, pirated CDs, DVDs and computer software can be found everywhere in Bangkok. Vendors don’t need to hide.”
It’s actually difficult to even tell whether you are watching a fake. If you rent from Tsutaya (Japanese Chain) I would assume you aren’t renting a fake. In the provinces there are a lot of shops that compete directly with Tsutaya that have a lot more films that are a little cheaper but quality is often bad, so people avoid them. With pharmaceuticals it could be the same if people realised it.
IMHO The main problem about IP rights is that without the pirating (like pharmaceuticals) there would probably be no price negotiation to bring the prices down to affordability. The Tsutaya price is probably relatively the same (as percentage of income) as a Blockbuster price in the US, but I doubt it got to that level without the influence of pirating mediating IP monopoly rights a bit.
Overall Thailand would be better without piracy of software and music, I bet. It would force the society to rely more on their own music, films (which they do already, with some wonderful works), and improve open source software for their own needs instead of playing into Microsoft’s hands.
It does seem that pirating foreign media and software is a lot more acceptable than Thai media and software, but that’s probably because there is a realisation that pirating their own stuff is going to have a predatory and negative effect on innovation in Thailand.
The observation the author makes that its probably a powerful person in charge of the piracy, I bet is true. Also most of the actual enforcement seems to be against unlucky unpowerful people, basically entrapment, a setup, a scam by the police, whether it is IP or drug enforcement, they have quotas, and they find a plausible victim to sacrifice, then set him up. I once had someone trying to, rather ridiculously, convince me to make mass copies of CDs, presumably because I had computer skills. I just laughed. I am not a criminal, unless critical thought is a crime.
‘Buddhism and Science’ conference at Mahidol
Jon: I can fully sympathize with your concerns and anger over the moral inequalities and immorally disfunctional uses and consequences of scientific technologies, applications and methods. That is however a separate topic than the one I was addressing. Whether it is more relevant and important than what I was discussing is another issue. I was addressing the issue of Buddhism and Science as I imagined it would be discussed at the forthcoming conference.
And for the record, classical Buddhist claims about perception, awareness, consciousness and meditative states are not abstract philosophical issues from the Buddhist perspective. They are foundational and essential if one believes that liberations from dukkha and samsara are supremely important goals, as the Buddha asserted. If they are abstract (and presumably from your perspective irrelevant or at least not so importantly relevant), then so is one of the central guiding goals of Theravada Buddhism.
Pig Latin: I don’t feel comfortable responding to, in essence, what would have to be my assumptions about what you are implying in a rather oblique and somewhat cryptic fashion. Of course, neuroscientists disagree with each other a lot about a lot of things (just like Buddhists), so even if I got the general gist of what you are implying, I’m not sure I would still know what particular claim you are advancing. Hence, it’s difficult to respond.
“In Thailand we respect the king. Nobody dares to make a copy.”
Unfortunately foreign movies are not as much respected in Thailand. Fakes are plenty !
Thailand after the coup: Event at SOAS
“р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╣Вр╕Ир╕г”
Thailand after the coup: Event at SOAS
Lack of Journalist Ethics at “р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╣Вр╕Ир╕Щ” – Student Letter of Protest at Matichon’s Report of an Anti-Dictatorship Demonstration in London – from Prachatai http://www.prachatai.com/webboard/topic.php?id=185134
р╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Др╕Щр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Ыр╕Ор╕┤р╣Ар╕кр╕Шр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕гр╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕лр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕нр╕▓р╕Ур╕▓р╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕г (р╕нр╕╡р╣Ар╕бр╕ер╕ер╣М [email protected])
25 р╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕б 2550
р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕З р╕Ыр╕Ор╕┤р╣Ар╕кр╕Шр╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╕Щр╕кр╕Ю р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╕Кр╕Щ р╕лр╕▒р╕зр╕Вр╣Йр╕н “ р╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Щр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Цр╕╣р╕Бр╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕бр╣Зр╕нр╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕др╕й”
р╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Щ р╕Юр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щр╕Кр╕▓р╕зр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щ
р╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕Бр╕Пр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Гр╕Щ р╕Щр╕кр╕Ю р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╕Кр╕Щ р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ъ р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 25 р╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕б р╕Ю.р╕и. 2550 р╕Ыр╕╡р╕Чр╕╡р╣И 30 р╕Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣И 10667 р╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣И 13 р╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕Др╕Щр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Ыр╕Пр╕┤р╣Ар╕кр╕Шр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕гр╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕лр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕нр╕▓р╕Ур╕гр╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕гр╕Ир╕│р╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕З р╕Кр╕╡р╣Йр╣Бр╕Ир╕З р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕н р╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕Хр╕╖р╕нр╕Щр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Др╕│р╕Щр╕╢р╕Зр╕Цр╕╢р╕З р╕Ир╕гр╕гр╕вр╕▓р╕Ър╕гр╕гр╕У р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕▓р╕Кр╕╡р╕Ю “р╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕кр╕▓р╕гр╕бр╕зр╕ер╕Кр╕Щ” р╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й
1.) р╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╕Щ.р╕к. р╕Чр╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕┤р╕б р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕╡р╕Ыр╕зр╕▒р╕Шр╕Щр╕зр╕Зр╕ир╣М р╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕нр╕Ър╕Цр╕▓р╕бр╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╣Др╕Ыр╕вр╕▒р╕З р╕Щ.р╕к.р╕Чр╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕┤р╕б р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕╡р╕Ыр╕зр╕▒р╕Шр╕Щр╕зр╕Зр╕ир╣М р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ “р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕кр╕▒р╕бр╕ар╕▓р╕йр╕Ур╣Мр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕нр╣Йр╕▓р╕З”
2.) р╕нр╕▒р╕Хр╕гр╕▓р╕кр╣Ир╕зр╕Щ р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕Хр╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕кр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕Щр╕╕р╕Щр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕г р╣Чр╣Р р╕Хр╣Ир╕н р╣Ур╣Р р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Др╕зр╣Йр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕бр╕бр╕╕р╕Хр╕┤р╕Др╕▓р╕Др╕Др╕░р╣Ар╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕нр╕Шр╕┤р╕Ър╕▓р╕вр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕кр╕╢р╕Б р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕│р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Бр╣Зр╕Ър╕гр╕зр╕Ър╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕╣р╕ер╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕кр╕Цр╕┤р╕Хр╕┤р╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Гр╕Фр╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╕п р╕Юр╕┤р╕Ир╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╕▓р╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╣Ар╕Щр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Ир╕▓р╕Б р╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕ер╕╖р╕н р╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Хр╕гр╕Зр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕З р╣Бр╕ер╕░ р╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕гр╕╣р╣Йр╕кр╕╢р╕Бр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Др╕зр╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕Бр╕Ор╣Гр╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕бр╕Хр╕┤р╕Кр╕Щр╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Зр╕кр╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╣Мр╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕вр╕нр╕бр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕зр╕Зр╕Бр╕зр╣Йр╕▓р╕З р╕Щр╕нр╕Бр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╕нр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕др╕йр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕в р╕Ир╕╢р╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╕░р╣Бр╕Ыр╕ер╕Бр╣Гр╕Ир╕Цр╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕ир╕╢р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕Щр╕┤р╕вр╕бр╕нр╕│р╕Щр╕▓р╕Ир╣Ар╕Ьр╕Фр╣Зр╕Ир╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Др╕┤р╕Фр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Др╕┤р╕Фр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╣Ир╕▓р╕гр╕▒р╕Зр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╕вр╕Ир╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Др╕зр╕гр╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕кр╕лр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕нр╕▓р╕Ур╕▓р╕Ир╕▒р╕Бр╕г р╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Бр╕бр╣Ир╣Бр╕Ър╕Ър╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕в
3.) р╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╕╡р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕нр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Др╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕З р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕бр╕▓р╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Щр╕╕р╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓ р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Чр╕╣р╕Хр╣Др╕Чр╕в р╕У р╕Бр╕гр╕╕р╕Зр╕ер╕нр╕Щр╕Фр╕нр╕Щ р╕Лр╕╢р╣Ир╕Зр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з
р╕бр╕┤р╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╕Вр╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Фр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Жр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕З р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕гр╕Цр╕бр╕▓р╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Чр╕╣р╕Х р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╣Ар╕ер╕╡р╣Йр╕вр╕Зр╕нр╕▓р╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕Фр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕┤р╕Щр╕Бр╕┤р╕Ир╕Бр╕гр╕гр╕б р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕кр╕зр╕▒р╕кр╕Фр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Ж р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕Щр╣Йр╕│р╣Гр╕Ир╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕гр╣Ир╕зр╕бр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╣Йр╕зр╕Зр╕Др╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕Щр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕Щр╕╕р╕Щр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ър╕╕р╕Др╕Др╕ер╕ар╕▓р╕вр╕Щр╕нр╕Б р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╕Кр╕нр╕Ър╣Бр╕Хр╣Ир╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Ар╕Фр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕ар╕▓р╕Юр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр╕Хр╕гр╕зр╕Ир╕кр╕нр╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Юр╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓ р╣Др╕Фр╣Й
р╕нр╕Щр╕╢р╣Ир╕З р╣Ар╕Щр╕╖р╣Йр╕нр╕лр╕▓р╣Гр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕ер╕Бр╣Ар╕Ыр╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕Щр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Др╕┤р╕Фр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Бр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╕Цр╕╣р╕Бр╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Вр╕Ир╕бр╕Хр╕╡р╕Ър╕╕р╕Др╕Др╕ер╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕г р╣Бр╕ер╕░ р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Вр╕Щр╣Йр╕бр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕зр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╣Ар╕лр╣Зр╕Щр╕Фр╣Йр╕зр╕вр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕│р╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕кр╕┤р╣Ир╕Зр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕нр╕бр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╣Др╕бр╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕кр╕▓р╕Бр╕е р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕кр╣Ир╕Зр╕зр╕нр╕гр╕╣р╕бр╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Ър╕гр╕гр╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕в р╕Ю.р╕Х.р╕Ч. р╕Чр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕┤р╕У р╕Щр╕▒р╣Йр╕Щ р╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╕╕р╣Ир╕бр╣Ар╕Бр╕┤р╕Фр╕Др╕│р╕Цр╕▓р╕бр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╕ар╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╕┤р╕Ир╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╕бр╕╡р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ир╕│р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Др╕╕р╣Йр╕бр╕Др╣Ир╕▓р╣Бр╕Бр╣Ир╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕ар╕▓р╕йр╕╡р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ар╕кр╕╡р╕вр╣Др╕Ыр╣Ар╕Юр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╣Гр╕Ф? р╣Ар╕Щр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕┤р╕Ир╕Бр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕зр╕Щр╕нр╕Бр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Вр╕вр╕Кр╕Щр╣Мр╕нр╕▒р╕Щр╣Гр╕Фр╣Бр╕ер╣Йр╕з р╕Бр╕ер╕▒р╕Ър╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╣Бр╕Хр╕Бр╣Бр╕вр╕Бр╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Вр╕╢р╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ъ р╕Др╕Щр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╣Гр╕Щр╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Бр╕Фр╕Щ р╕кр╕зр╕Щр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Щр╣Вр╕вр╕Ър╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕бр╕▓р╕Щр╕Йр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╣М р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╣Гр╕Щр╕Ыр╕▒р╕Ир╕Ир╕╕р╕Ър╕▒р╕Щ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Щр╕│р╣Др╕Ыр╕кр╕╣р╣Ир╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕ер╣Ир╕бр╕Ир╕б р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╕Щр╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╕▓р╕Хр╕┤ р╕Хр╕▓р╕бр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Фр╕│р╕гр╕▒р╕кр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣Мр╕кр╕бр╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Ир╕Юр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╕лр╕▒р╕з р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Чр╕гр╕Зр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Чр╕▓р╕Щр╣Бр╕Хр╣И р╕Др╕Ур╕░р╕ир╕▓р╕ер╕Ыр╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕нр╕З р╣Гр╕Щр╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣И 24 р╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕б р╕Щр╕нр╕Бр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Щр╕╡р╣Й р╕Щр╕нр╕Бр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ър╕гр╕гр╕вр╕▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕кр╕╕р╕гр╕Юр╕Зр╕йр╣М р╣Гр╕Щр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕кр╕Цр╕▓р╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕зр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Шр╕┤р╕Ыр╣Др╕Хр╕вр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕▓р╕г р╕Др╕зр╕гр╕Ир╕▒р╕Фр╕зр╣Ир╕▓р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕╣р╕Фр╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕Ыр╕гр╕▓р╕ир╕Ир╕▓р╕Др╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╣Ар╕Щр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╕▓р╕Б р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Чр╕ир╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Хр╕нр╕Щр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕Цр╕╣р╕Бр╕Ыр╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕нр╕Зр╕ар╕▓р╕вр╣Гр╕Хр╣Йр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕гр╕░р╕Ър╕нр╕Ър╣Ар╕Ьр╕Фр╣Зр╕Ир╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╕нр╕вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕бр╕┤р╕нр╕▓р╕Ир╕Ыр╕Ор╕┤р╣Ар╕кр╕Шр╣Др╕Фр╣Й
р╕Ир╕╢р╕Зр╕Кр╕╡р╣Йр╣Бр╕Ир╕Зр╕бр╕▓р╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Чр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕Цр╕╢р╕З р╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕Чр╣Зр╕Ир╕Ир╕гр╕┤р╕Зр╕Фр╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕з р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕лр╕зр╕▒р╕Зр╕зр╣Ир╕▓ “р╕кр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕бр╕зр╕ер╕Кр╕Щ” р╕Др╕Зр╕вр╕╢р╕Фр╕бр╕▒р╣Ир╕Щр╕нр╕вр╕╣р╣Ир╣Гр╕Щр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Бр╕зр╕┤р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕╡р╕Юр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕Щ р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Вр╕нр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕Щр╕Кр╕▓р╕зр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Чр╕╕р╕Бр╕Чр╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╣Вр╕Ыр╕гр╕Фр╕Юр╕┤р╕Ир╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╕▓
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