Christine Gray, I’m not sure about the dog symbolism, but I’m sure that you overly, and incorrectly, analyzed this part:
“Thaksin accused Prem of masterminding the 2006 ouster of his government, which was followed by attacks on Thaksin’s Red Shirt supporters, many of whom are from Isan, the impoverished Northeast. Prem and military-democratic governments since are identified with “Yellow Shirt” royalists, yellow being the king’s astrological colour signifying Monday, the day of his birth. Red being the unlucky colour for that day.”
The one guy who started the whole “Red Shirt” movement was the activist Sombat Boonngam-Anong. He isn’t superstitious; he is even an atheist. I don’t believe he chose red color based on astrological reasons. However, he chose it because it symbolized the traffic red light, e.g. “stop,” because he wanted to stop the 2007’s draft constitution from passing. The attempted failed; the draft constitution was approved by about 60% of the votes. But the red shirt movement developed from that point.
You can talk to Sombat at his Facebook: р╕кр╕бр╕Ър╕▒р╕Хр╕┤ р╕Ър╕╕р╕Нр╕Зр╕▓р╕бр╕нр╕Щр╕Зр╕Др╣М or his Twitter @nuling if you don’t believe me.
I was going to comment most favourably and in wholehearted support of jonfernquest’s posting, but now that I must reveal my email address I will not. My reasons are most eloquently already stated in the article.
My trust in Royal Thai Police Force is so deep that I will rather put my head in the mouth of a lion rather than those officers
who are supposed to be enforcing the law!
Dr Somsak:
Interesting. I’m not certain I agree — we are seeing this from my different perspectives — but I defer to your superior knowledge and information sources. You’re saying the CP and his father are no longer on the outs, or that satire is not an essential characteristic of royals, particularly via-a-vis farang?
Would you post your own counter-argument as a NM contribution? Dog v Dog part deux ?
What’s with the deference shown to royal dogs, and Srirasmi essentially crouching at the CP’s feet? And what’s with the bike rallies?
Thank you for getting my name corrected. Some of my oldest friends still get mixed up 🙂
Actually as the rather comprehensive accompanying post by Christine Grey on the Thai monarchy, “Dog v Dog”, alludes to, in the infamous video on the CP, his poodle, ‘Air Chief Marshall’ Foo Foo indeed did eat cake.
As an adolescent foreigner in an arranged marriage and way out of her depth in Versailles at the time of the Revolution, Marie-Antionette could at least plead extenuating circumstances. This is hardly the case in Bangkok today. However like the Bourbons Thailand’s network monarchy (McCargo) seems to have learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.
Ralph, Thank you this is a valid point. What I meant by civilianized is that they have taken off their uniforms and are, some of the time at least, in civilian dress but to all intents and purposes it is a junta.
It is somewhat ironic that in the former pariah nation of Myanmar the military is weakening its hold on power while in Thailand the opposite is happening. So much for the inevitability of democratisation due to the growth of a middle class ├а la Barrington Moore.
I did not mean to imply that I am interested in naturalization or permanent residence. I was merely describing a situation that has existed for decades.
As someone who has worked for a large newspaper in Bangkok for 10 years I cannot conceive of not publishing several articles a week that are considered “offences against morality” by someone whether it be Thaksin or the police or a court or soldiers interrogating academics, all of which basically makes one head explode, everyday of the week. Witness the Koh Tao death penalty today based on the shoddiest police work imaginable. 🙁
I would much rather do some hard research for a PhD somewhere to make some non-superficial (in the sense of, not news articles) progress in figuring out what it all means 🙂
Looks like EDSA IV if this self-styled people’s hero is ever elected.
Is “death squad” Duterte even aware that Philippines underwent comprehensive reform to the educational system in 2011 adding two years of education stressing preparation for engineering with science and mathematics, in the long-run the difference between a rich and a poor country. Even a cursory web search provides newspaper articles and working papers explaining it.
Thein Sein has done what he was told to do, and turned out to be an excellent choice too. Others will take his place as the Burmese expression goes “Da bo kya da bo tet” (one commander falls another commander takes over). Wish I could say this about the NLD.
P
Now it’ll be Min Aung Hlaing vs ASSK. Will he actually turn out different or just step into Than Shwe’s shoes is the sixty four thousand dollar question. He will appoint one of three VPs but he can’t replace Thein Sein, and yet the dice are so loaded so long as this constitution stands.
The people however may not be as obliging or patient as the Lady who, once allowed to become President by the grace of the military through some constitutional ‘loophole’, they will continue to make deals with until and if push comes to shove her patience too starts to wear thin. We’re in either for a rollercoaster ride or a stop go trajectory.
Peace on earth and good will to all men…hopefully in Burma soon. May the force be with her.
With respect to Professor Grey, I cannot agree with the major premise of this article, that the King had have major problems with his son to the point that virtually everything mentioned in the article is said to stem from this premise (the King’s adoption of “Copper”, that well-known passage in his book that he praised “Copper” for royalty was an allusion to his son, the [alleged] “retaliatory” show of affection of Fu Fu [which, by the way, was by the CP’s then wife than by the CP himself], the alleged desire of the king to retire only to postpone it because of the disappointment with his son, etc).
As far as I know from following the royal family for quite a long time, there’s no evidence to support this premise or warrant a reading of all the incidents mentioned in this way.
There’s been significant changes in the status and “representation” of the monarchy and the royal family members, of which the affections of dogs shown by the king and others in the family were part of, since the 1990s; a phenomenon I called “Mass Monarchy” or, if one prefers, the “bourgeoisification” of the monarchy, henceforth the king himself and other in the family appeared as more “normal” humans. The most significant change is arguably the “re-focus” of the central praise for the king [personally rather than the “monarchy” as an abstract organization – itself an important change] as guardian of national security [against communism] to “hard working” [р╕Чр╕│р╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Б – “tham ngan nak”] – a quintessential ‘bourgeois’ virtue.
I think it’s a good omen that our articles on Indonesia’s latest Freeport scandal were published on the same day. Maju terus pantang mundur and best wishes, Jeremy 🙂
Thank you, bkklawyer, for making those factual corrections. The people who gave them a thumbs-down are soldiers in a battle, unhappy about anybody revealing their side’s tactical errors, and perhaps even pretending they weren’t errors at all.
jonfernquest #4. “Due to the near impossibility of gaining permanent resident status or naturalization…”. You might be surprised to learn that military dictatorship has actually been very positive for foreigners applying for permanent residence and citizenship. As interior minister, General Anuphong Paochinda has been busy clearing backlogs of hundreds of PR and citizenship applicants and has put the fear of god into bureaucrats whom he implied were deliberately holding up the processes in the hope of financial gain. I know a number of foreigner teachers on relatively low salaries who are just about to be approved for Thai citizenship. It’s not impossible at all but, if you don’t apply, you won’t get it. The bad news is that permanent residence and naturalized Thais can have their status revoked for an “offence against public morality” at the discretion of the interior minister, although historically this generally only happened following a court conviction for a serious crime like drug trafficking.
So you should put in your application ASAP and hope the military government stays in power long enough to see you through before the grasping polticians come back.
I agree with all that you say David. However, I wonder why you refer to a “civilianized military junta.” Isn’t the current cabinet more “militarized” than the first one under General Prayuth? That’s how it was reported at the time of the reshuffle, and when this was pointed out, Prayuth essentially yelled, “So what. Look what happens when you have elected politicians in cabinet.”
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Can Myanmar keep getting better?
1967, not 1974 and perhaps 2011, rather than 2010.
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
Christine Gray, I’m not sure about the dog symbolism, but I’m sure that you overly, and incorrectly, analyzed this part:
“Thaksin accused Prem of masterminding the 2006 ouster of his government, which was followed by attacks on Thaksin’s Red Shirt supporters, many of whom are from Isan, the impoverished Northeast. Prem and military-democratic governments since are identified with “Yellow Shirt” royalists, yellow being the king’s astrological colour signifying Monday, the day of his birth. Red being the unlucky colour for that day.”
The one guy who started the whole “Red Shirt” movement was the activist Sombat Boonngam-Anong. He isn’t superstitious; he is even an atheist. I don’t believe he chose red color based on astrological reasons. However, he chose it because it symbolized the traffic red light, e.g. “stop,” because he wanted to stop the 2007’s draft constitution from passing. The attempted failed; the draft constitution was approved by about 60% of the votes. But the red shirt movement developed from that point.
You can talk to Sombat at his Facebook: р╕кр╕бр╕Ър╕▒р╕Хр╕┤ р╕Ър╕╕р╕Нр╕Зр╕▓р╕бр╕нр╕Щр╕Зр╕Др╣М or his Twitter @nuling if you don’t believe me.
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
I was going to comment most favourably and in wholehearted support of jonfernquest’s posting, but now that I must reveal my email address I will not. My reasons are most eloquently already stated in the article.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
My trust in Royal Thai Police Force is so deep that I will rather put my head in the mouth of a lion rather than those officers
who are supposed to be enforcing the law!
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
Dr Somsak:
Interesting. I’m not certain I agree — we are seeing this from my different perspectives — but I defer to your superior knowledge and information sources. You’re saying the CP and his father are no longer on the outs, or that satire is not an essential characteristic of royals, particularly via-a-vis farang?
Would you post your own counter-argument as a NM contribution? Dog v Dog part deux ?
What’s with the deference shown to royal dogs, and Srirasmi essentially crouching at the CP’s feet? And what’s with the bike rallies?
Thank you for getting my name corrected. Some of my oldest friends still get mixed up 🙂
New Mandala’s 2015 in review (and Christmas dance)
Indispensable forum from the Down-under.
With gratitude for this blessings and the warmest Christmas wishes to you’ll who made it possible.
Madness and loyalty in Thailand
Actually as the rather comprehensive accompanying post by Christine Grey on the Thai monarchy, “Dog v Dog”, alludes to, in the infamous video on the CP, his poodle, ‘Air Chief Marshall’ Foo Foo indeed did eat cake.
As an adolescent foreigner in an arranged marriage and way out of her depth in Versailles at the time of the Revolution, Marie-Antionette could at least plead extenuating circumstances. This is hardly the case in Bangkok today. However like the Bourbons Thailand’s network monarchy (McCargo) seems to have learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.
Madness and loyalty in Thailand
Ralph, Thank you this is a valid point. What I meant by civilianized is that they have taken off their uniforms and are, some of the time at least, in civilian dress but to all intents and purposes it is a junta.
It is somewhat ironic that in the former pariah nation of Myanmar the military is weakening its hold on power while in Thailand the opposite is happening. So much for the inevitability of democratisation due to the growth of a middle class ├а la Barrington Moore.
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
I did not mean to imply that I am interested in naturalization or permanent residence. I was merely describing a situation that has existed for decades.
As someone who has worked for a large newspaper in Bangkok for 10 years I cannot conceive of not publishing several articles a week that are considered “offences against morality” by someone whether it be Thaksin or the police or a court or soldiers interrogating academics, all of which basically makes one head explode, everyday of the week. Witness the Koh Tao death penalty today based on the shoddiest police work imaginable. 🙁
I would much rather do some hard research for a PhD somewhere to make some non-superficial (in the sense of, not news articles) progress in figuring out what it all means 🙂
Southeast Asian Snapshots
Looks like EDSA IV if this self-styled people’s hero is ever elected.
Is “death squad” Duterte even aware that Philippines underwent comprehensive reform to the educational system in 2011 adding two years of education stressing preparation for engineering with science and mathematics, in the long-run the difference between a rich and a poor country. Even a cursory web search provides newspaper articles and working papers explaining it.
Doomed to repeat history, it seems 🙁
A state of madness
“…northern Thailand, a thoroughly Red region.”
What’s your definition of “thoroughly”?
“80% of Thais, approve of the work the current government is doing.”
What’s your basis for this sweeping claim?
As for “democracy kills development.”…? Happily, comment seems superfluous.
Can Myanmar keep getting better?
Thein Sein has done what he was told to do, and turned out to be an excellent choice too. Others will take his place as the Burmese expression goes “Da bo kya da bo tet” (one commander falls another commander takes over). Wish I could say this about the NLD.
P
Now it’ll be Min Aung Hlaing vs ASSK. Will he actually turn out different or just step into Than Shwe’s shoes is the sixty four thousand dollar question. He will appoint one of three VPs but he can’t replace Thein Sein, and yet the dice are so loaded so long as this constitution stands.
The people however may not be as obliging or patient as the Lady who, once allowed to become President by the grace of the military through some constitutional ‘loophole’, they will continue to make deals with until and if push comes to shove her patience too starts to wear thin. We’re in either for a rollercoaster ride or a stop go trajectory.
Peace on earth and good will to all men…hopefully in Burma soon. May the force be with her.
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
P.S. I’m so sorry. I mistyped Professor Gray’s name above. Would New Mandala’s WM please correct it? Thank you
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
With respect to Professor Grey, I cannot agree with the major premise of this article, that the King had have major problems with his son to the point that virtually everything mentioned in the article is said to stem from this premise (the King’s adoption of “Copper”, that well-known passage in his book that he praised “Copper” for royalty was an allusion to his son, the [alleged] “retaliatory” show of affection of Fu Fu [which, by the way, was by the CP’s then wife than by the CP himself], the alleged desire of the king to retire only to postpone it because of the disappointment with his son, etc).
As far as I know from following the royal family for quite a long time, there’s no evidence to support this premise or warrant a reading of all the incidents mentioned in this way.
There’s been significant changes in the status and “representation” of the monarchy and the royal family members, of which the affections of dogs shown by the king and others in the family were part of, since the 1990s; a phenomenon I called “Mass Monarchy” or, if one prefers, the “bourgeoisification” of the monarchy, henceforth the king himself and other in the family appeared as more “normal” humans. The most significant change is arguably the “re-focus” of the central praise for the king [personally rather than the “monarchy” as an abstract organization – itself an important change] as guardian of national security [against communism] to “hard working” [р╕Чр╕│р╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕лр╕Щр╕▒р╕Б – “tham ngan nak”] – a quintessential ‘bourgeois’ virtue.
Madness and loyalty in Thailand
“Let the dogs eat cake”. Marie Antoinette must be roaring with laughter, this Christmas, wherever she’s re-incarnated.
Indonesia’s Freeport saga
I think it’s a good omen that our articles on Indonesia’s latest Freeport scandal were published on the same day. Maju terus pantang mundur and best wishes, Jeremy 🙂
Mulholland, Jeremy, “Mining millions and corrupt politicians in Indonesia scandal”, The Australian, 22 December 2015
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RdHxO1e2pQEJ:www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/mining-millions-and-corrupt-politicians-in-indonesia-scandal/news-story/022df29edc1a944d826e5a5fa12eecb5+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
This is Google’s cache of http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/mining-millions-and-corrupt-politicians-in-indonesia-scandal/news-story/022df29edc1a944d826e5a5fa12eecb5.
Madness and loyalty in Thailand
Thank you, bkklawyer, for making those factual corrections. The people who gave them a thumbs-down are soldiers in a battle, unhappy about anybody revealing their side’s tactical errors, and perhaps even pretending they weren’t errors at all.
Dog v dog: Theatrics of the Thai interregnum
jonfernquest #4. “Due to the near impossibility of gaining permanent resident status or naturalization…”. You might be surprised to learn that military dictatorship has actually been very positive for foreigners applying for permanent residence and citizenship. As interior minister, General Anuphong Paochinda has been busy clearing backlogs of hundreds of PR and citizenship applicants and has put the fear of god into bureaucrats whom he implied were deliberately holding up the processes in the hope of financial gain. I know a number of foreigner teachers on relatively low salaries who are just about to be approved for Thai citizenship. It’s not impossible at all but, if you don’t apply, you won’t get it. The bad news is that permanent residence and naturalized Thais can have their status revoked for an “offence against public morality” at the discretion of the interior minister, although historically this generally only happened following a court conviction for a serious crime like drug trafficking.
So you should put in your application ASAP and hope the military government stays in power long enough to see you through before the grasping polticians come back.
Madness and loyalty in Thailand
I agree with all that you say David. However, I wonder why you refer to a “civilianized military junta.” Isn’t the current cabinet more “militarized” than the first one under General Prayuth? That’s how it was reported at the time of the reshuffle, and when this was pointed out, Prayuth essentially yelled, “So what. Look what happens when you have elected politicians in cabinet.”
Madness and loyalty in Thailand
Just curious why 6 (so far) people thumbed down my comment. It only stated a fact.