Whilst we don’t completely discourage the boycott (at least to the extent the BCUK does) we do ponder how can the boycott be effective, if we completely dismiss the largest percentage of tourists to visit Burma each year?
I meant ‘encourage’ rather than ‘discourage” the boycott. I’d hate to be accused of implying the BCUK ‘discourages’ the boycott!! That couldn’t be any further from the truth!!
I read your article on Burma Gateway and here with great interest.
In reference to your challenge: “However, it would be great if somebody took on this challenge.”, I’d like to bring your attention to Voices for Burma, whom Tara has already referred to.
Having been in existence for nearly 4 years, we at VFB try to quantify the impact of travel on Burma. We ask ourselves, Burmese, other travellers, academics, politicians, etc these questions every day.
The boycott isn’t black and white. It has many, many layers and shades of gray. I think it is great you are asking those questions – as we need to. We ought not to blindly accept the boycott, or should we accept blindly mass-tourism. Although I don’t think many people are suggesting the latter in any case.
Voices for Burma’s stance is that responsible, independent tourists should consider visiting Burma if and only if they want to make a positive impact to the people of Burma. If a tourist takes that position, our organisation attempts to provide them with adequate information to make informed choices whilst travelling inside Burma.
A question you didn’t ask is “what is the impact of the western-led boycott when Burma’s SE-Asian neighbours have no boycott, and account to nearly half of Burma’s tourism through their package tourism?” Yes, you did allude to this when you asked why we don’t encourage boycott inside Asia.
I’ve been in this game for over two years, and whilst we at VFB ask this question a lot to ourselves and others, we certainly don’t read that question in articles very often. So it was very refreshing to read your question. Whilst we don’t completely discourage the boycott (at least to the extent the BCUK does) we do ponder how can the boycott be effective, if we completely dismiss the largest percentage of tourists to visit Burma each year? Ironically, Voices for Burma also doesn’t engage in this space. We’d like to, but we dont have the resources.
We’d be interested in taking your questions further. However, we also need extra resources in order to do so. If anyone reads this and is interested in researching for us in order to answer some more of Nicholas’s great questions -please contact us!
Best regards
Cherie
co-Director Voices for Burma
Melbourne, Australia
I’m not so sure that the way out of this latest manifestation of an old problem is to once again go through the familiar humiliating routine of begging for government support. Surely what Australian universities need least right now is yet more government control of curricula and research agendas.
I don’t think it’s as much rural vs. urban as “have money” vs. “don’t have money”. When someone in a village makes money they send their kid to the provincial capital or the regional center or Bangkok to get educated.
Money is one way of gaining respect, another is to work for the government. Two examples: As a Thai teacher would you rather earn 30,000 baht teaching (and often gratuitously baby-sitting rich kids) or earning 16,000 serving as a Ka-Ratchakan (serving His Majesty) at a university? In the later, the government paternalistically takes care of you and you have respect and standing in the community, you’re also teaching poor students on scholarship as well as rich ones so you can feel that you are working for the betterment of the country, even if your paycheck is rather small.
Some of Thaksin’s schemes for bridging the rural-urban money -no money divide did not work, because they failed to take into account people’s need for self-respect. For instance, his urban maid training program. Is someone going to give up the independence of farming that their family has been involved in for many generations and live in the dirty city, working at wages that give them a standard of living way below what they had in the countryside, and also subject themselves to all sorts of demeaning things, like not getting paid on time or at all, having your personal liberty severely restricted, and if you’re an attractive young female, warding off the master of the house which is a major problem everywhere for maids, from Hong Kong, to Saudi Arabia, to Singapore.
His Majesty’s self-sufficiency concept buys people self-respect and that’s important part of the equation. Hopefully, more industry, education, and money will flow out to the countryside, and I bet rural folk will become more tied into the system and become better voters as a result.
Reply to Patiwat: I know you were being facetious, but the problem is not with Thais generally, but Thai academics, who are “too stupid for democracy”. What this shows is the almost total moral bankcruptcy of the Thai academic establishment.
Johpa there was a certain Jasmine who posted in the Nation Webboard (Forum #1104) and interestingly she gave an account about the Chiengmai police that reinforces the police corruption you also cited.
——————
Author: Jasmine
Date: 22 Nov 2549 15:35
For 3 years now that I have been living and spending my time with the lovely Thai juveniles in the upper north of Thailand. Through these innocent kids, I have learned that : the government officials will never successfully be able to bring down the rate or even to stop the using of amphetamines by the juveniles in major or modern cities like Chiang-mai, Chiang-rai, Nakhoensawan, Pissanuloke, etc.
The first thing is : there are ,still many low & high ranking law enforcement officials , taking the bribes from the active narcotic networks ; some officials have gone to the worst side, by directly involved in the backing and selling the narcotics to the youth, or giving 5-10 tablets of amphetamines in return for having sex with the female juveniles.
It also happens in Chiang-Mai when bad cops forced good kids to deliver amphetamines to street users, or even to sell marijuana to foreign tourists who come to see major temples in Chiang-mai province.
This mutual exchange can often be seen in the city of Chiang-mai ; any kid in the ring will know. Second thing is : the lack of concern in the part of the government’s social services to patrol the streets to search for the inside information about the welfare of these innocent children in order to find the real cause and to set up any necessary prevention measures to guard them from being exploited and attacked by the narcotic pushers and sellers.
The Society must give more attention and concern to this problem now before more and more children are dragged into this underworld dirty arena — making huge profit on the lives of these beautiful chuildren of Thailand.
Jon, I think patiwat’s final comment was supposed to be ironic.
Re the stupidity of the electorate, how many so-called democracies can you point to where the intelligence of the voters could be called into question ? No prizes for guessing which one springs to mind first.
It is interesting how everyone dances around the ethnic issues here, politely stated as urban vs rural. Or am I one of the few who thinks that Skinner got his assimilations arse backwards?
“It seems that after all these years, and 95% literacy rate, that Thais are still too stupid for democracy.”
If you took an American or an Australian and plopped him or her down in Thailand a week before the election, I think they would have been hard-pressed to know exactly what they were voting for too. In the end they’d probably end up voting the same way as all the other people in the neighborhood, as a sort of default.
Thaksin revolutionised politics. Before Thaksin there were many parties but few well-defined policy platforms. One can acknowledge this while, at the same time, acknowledging that he did a lot of things to alienate a lot of people, as documented in Pasuk’s biography and this Bangkok Post article from the analysis section a few weeks ago:
I know the weekend before the election this year, I went back tto the provinces from where I work in Bangkok. On Saturday we drove up to the waterfall and the street was lined with signs that almost threatened people that they would lose their 30 baht health insurance if they didn’t vote TRT. At least that’s what all the local people I talked to thought after they read it. These signs were very manipulative and, who knows, maybe against election laws. Anyway, by no means would I call any of the Thai people I know, “stupid”. People lead peaceful and comfortable lives, and this is truly smart.
Someone needs to point out to Chaiwat Bunnag that rural people use MPs to fight imperious bureaucrats (and nauseating, condescending intellectuals). Anyone visiting the office of a rural MP would notice the line of people outside looking for help, not just handouts. Of course when the MPs don’t serve them the people then have no choice but to go to the streets.
I didn’t like the idea that urban people “fear” the rural masses but it is beginning to sound like it.
It’s a funny circle, this thing about readiness for Democracy: the people have been educated enough to demand it time and time again since 1932, but then they are not educated enough for it because it is messy in their hands. But no one says they are educated/not educated enough for military dictatorship (asked for or not) and no one says they are educated/not educated enough for an absolute monarchy.
So military dictatorhsips and monarchies are only appropriate for idiots, and those people in favor are calling all their Thai mates idiots.
What I wonder is, is all this up-is-down justification going on directed at the Thai people or at foreigners?
Jon, I’ve commented on why Thaksin was so popular with taxi drivers on Bangkok Pundit here and here. Bangkok Pundit himself has some thoughts on the issue here.
Partial non-electoral democracy was the driving philosophy behind the Transitory Clauses of the 1932 democracy. Since Thai people at the time were so uneducated in general and particularly about democracy, the Parliament would be half chosen until at least half population had completed primary education (or for ten years).
It seems that after all these years, and 95% literacy rate, that Thais are still too stupid for democracy.
I missed James Haughton’s (November 26th, 2006 at 2:35 am) defense of Andrew Walker and why Andrew Walker would require the services of cheerleader James strikes me as odd.
I am flattered to be mistaken for a 14 year old but even a precocious 14 year old do look up to doctorate academicians like Andrew Walker for guidance. And Andrew Walker had written this fib about Thailand’s Sufficiency Economy and all this 14-year old was asking was for Andrew Walker’s enlightenment on how he arrived at at that conclusion that Thailand’s Sufficiency Economy was conceived to keep the Thai poor in shackles of poverty indefinitely. Andrew can always apologize and admit he lied and this 14-year old will understand.
I did not realize James Haughton is enthralled by Thaksin Shinawatra Khmer voodoo daily rituals. So far James those Khmer voodoo spells have been a dud for Thaksin, but not for want of faith or devotion. Let me know if Thaksin Shinawatra turn up in your neighborhood in search of shamans and witches to keep his dark powers potent and all-powerful.
Reading the Nation article is very reminiscent of what you read in Michael Nelson’s field work dissertation published by White Lotus (political patronage and godfathers, a campaign worker gets shot dead during the campaigning) and the PKI yearbooks (stressing voter education programmes).
There are a lot of commonalities with the west though. When local politicians start telling you before an election that you’re going to get hooked up to a government run water supply, and the wells stopped running last year during the drought, you’re going to be favorably inclined towards the incumbent. This sort of thing is found everywhere under democracy and could hardly qualify as vote buying.
Come to think of it, most historical Southeast Asian states really didn’t go through a magna-carta stage, did they? Or Europe’s tortuously long “class war” or maybe they did? Anyway, yet more questions to ask of the good ol’ historical sources.
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Burma boycott – some questions about “avoided tourism”
Hi again, I’d like to clarify something:
Typo in this line:
Whilst we don’t completely discourage the boycott (at least to the extent the BCUK does) we do ponder how can the boycott be effective, if we completely dismiss the largest percentage of tourists to visit Burma each year?
I meant ‘encourage’ rather than ‘discourage” the boycott. I’d hate to be accused of implying the BCUK ‘discourages’ the boycott!! That couldn’t be any further from the truth!!
Cherie
Burma boycott – some questions about “avoided tourism”
Nicholas
I read your article on Burma Gateway and here with great interest.
In reference to your challenge: “However, it would be great if somebody took on this challenge.”, I’d like to bring your attention to Voices for Burma, whom Tara has already referred to.
Having been in existence for nearly 4 years, we at VFB try to quantify the impact of travel on Burma. We ask ourselves, Burmese, other travellers, academics, politicians, etc these questions every day.
The boycott isn’t black and white. It has many, many layers and shades of gray. I think it is great you are asking those questions – as we need to. We ought not to blindly accept the boycott, or should we accept blindly mass-tourism. Although I don’t think many people are suggesting the latter in any case.
Voices for Burma’s stance is that responsible, independent tourists should consider visiting Burma if and only if they want to make a positive impact to the people of Burma. If a tourist takes that position, our organisation attempts to provide them with adequate information to make informed choices whilst travelling inside Burma.
A question you didn’t ask is “what is the impact of the western-led boycott when Burma’s SE-Asian neighbours have no boycott, and account to nearly half of Burma’s tourism through their package tourism?” Yes, you did allude to this when you asked why we don’t encourage boycott inside Asia.
I’ve been in this game for over two years, and whilst we at VFB ask this question a lot to ourselves and others, we certainly don’t read that question in articles very often. So it was very refreshing to read your question. Whilst we don’t completely discourage the boycott (at least to the extent the BCUK does) we do ponder how can the boycott be effective, if we completely dismiss the largest percentage of tourists to visit Burma each year? Ironically, Voices for Burma also doesn’t engage in this space. We’d like to, but we dont have the resources.
We’d be interested in taking your questions further. However, we also need extra resources in order to do so. If anyone reads this and is interested in researching for us in order to answer some more of Nicholas’s great questions -please contact us!
Best regards
Cherie
co-Director Voices for Burma
Melbourne, Australia
Democracy-lite
Self-Sufficiency in the Julanont Family (From р╕Яр╣Йр╕▓р╣Ар╕Фр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щ webboard: http://www.sameskybooks.org/webboard/show.php?Category=sameskybooks&No=517
р╕Чр╕гр╕▒р╕Юр╕вр╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Щр╕Вр╕нр╕З р╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр╣Ар╕нр╕Бр╕лр╕Нр╕┤р╕З р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕лр╕Нр╕┤р╕З р╕Ир╕┤р╕Хр╕гр╕зр╕Фр╕╡ р╕Ир╕╕р╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╕Щр╕Чр╣М р╕Др╕╣р╣Ир╕кр╕бр╕гр╕кр╕Вр╕нр╕З р╕Юр╕е.р╕н.р╕кр╕╕р╕гр╕вр╕╕р╕Чр╕Шр╣М р╕Ир╕╕р╕ер╕▓р╕Щр╕Щр╕Чр╣М р╕бр╕╡р╕бр╕╣р╕ер╕Др╣Ир╕▓р╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Бр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕Ф 65,566,363.11 р╕Ър╕▓р╕Ч р╣Вр╕Фр╕вр╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕ер╕░р╣Ар╕нр╕╡р╕вр╕Фр╣Ар╕лр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╕бр╕▓р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕Ир╣Йр╕Зр╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Кр╕╡р╕Чр╕гр╕▒р╕Юр╕вр╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Щр╕лр╕ер╕▒р╕Зр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Хр╕│р╣Бр╕лр╕Щр╣Ир╕Зр╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕п р╕Вр╕нр╕З р╕Юр╕е.р╕н.р╕кр╕╕р╕гр╕вр╕╕р╕Чр╕Шр╣М
р╕Фр╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕ер╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Щр╕╡р╣Йр╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Йр╕Юр╕▓р╕░р╣Бр╕Бр╣Йр╕зр╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕нр╕З
1. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕ер╕б 1,408,000.00
2. р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕╣р╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕ер╕б 2 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 1,500,000.00
3. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕ер╕б 900,000.0
4. р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕╣р╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕ер╕б 2 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 301,000.00
5. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕ер╕б 350,000.00
6. р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕╣р╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Бр╕ер╕бр╕бр╕╡р╕Бр╣Йр╕▓р╕Щ 2 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 240,000.00
7. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╕бр╕гр╕Бр╕Хр╕кр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕бр╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 210,000.00
8. р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕╣р╕бр╕гр╕Бр╕Хр╕кр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕бр╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 2 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 358,000.00
9. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╣Гр╕Ир╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕Щр╕┤р╕е 514,000.00
10. р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕╣р╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╣Гр╕Ир╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕Щр╕┤р╕е 2 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 334,000.00
11. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╕гр╕╣р╕Ы Pear Shape 900,000.00
12. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Др╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Щр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕кр╕╡р╣Ир╣Ар╕лр╕ер╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕бр╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕Фр╣Йр╕▓р╕Щр╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕З 390,000.00
13. р╕Ир╕╡р╣Йр╕Ър╕╕р╕ир╕гр╕▓р╕Др╕▒р╕бр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╣Гр╕Ир╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 255,000.00
14. р╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Бр╕Фр╕Зр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╣Др╕Вр╣И 3 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 450,000.00
15. р╕Хр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕лр╕╣р╕Чр╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕┤р╕бр╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕лр╕вр╕Фр╕Щр╣Йр╕│р╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 275,000.00
16. р╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╕бр╕╖р╕нр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 30 р╣Ар╕бр╣Зр╕Ф 395,000.00
17. р╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╕Др╕нр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕гр╕бр╕▓р╕Др╕╡ 750,000.00
18. р╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╕Др╕нр╣Др╕Юр╕ер╕┤р╕Щр╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 217,000.00
19. р╕кр╕гр╣Йр╕нр╕вр╕Др╕нр╕Чр╕▒р╕Ър╕Чр╕┤р╕бр╕Юр╕бр╣Ир╕▓р╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╣Гр╕Ир╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕бр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 740,000.00
20. р╕Щр╕▓р╕мр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓ Piaget р╕гр╕╣р╕Ыр╕лр╕▒р╕зр╣Гр╕И 1,500,000.00
21. р╕Щр╕▓р╕мр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓ FRANK Muller 900,000.00
22. р╕Щр╕▓р╕мр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓ Patek Phillippe 700,000.00
23. р╣Ар╕Вр╣Зр╕бр╕Вр╕▒р╕Фр╕Чр╕нр╕З р╕бр╕╡р╕лр╕▒р╕зр╣Ар╕Вр╣Зр╕бр╕Вр╕▒р╕Фр╕Эр╕▒р╕Зр╣Ар╕Юр╕Кр╕г 340,000.00
24. р╕Бр╕гр╕░р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Лр╕▓р╕Чр╕нр╕З 230,000.00
р╕гр╕зр╕бр╕гр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Бр╕Бр╣Йр╕зр╣Бр╕лр╕зр╕Щр╣Ар╕Зр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕нр╕З 14,157,000.00 р╕Ър╕▓р╕Ч
р╕гр╕зр╕бр╕Чр╕гр╕▒р╕Юр╕вр╣Мр╕кр╕┤р╕Щр╕нр╕╖р╣Ир╕Щр╣Ж р╕Чр╕▒р╣Йр╕Зр╕лр╕бр╕Ф 65,566,363.11 р╕Ър╕▓р╕Ч
My secret war
How active are 1st/2nd generation Lao-Australians in influencing Australia’s international/development policy to Laos?
Same old story…Asian Studies on the decline
I’m not so sure that the way out of this latest manifestation of an old problem is to once again go through the familiar humiliating routine of begging for government support. Surely what Australian universities need least right now is yet more government control of curricula and research agendas.
Democracy-lite
I don’t think it’s as much rural vs. urban as “have money” vs. “don’t have money”. When someone in a village makes money they send their kid to the provincial capital or the regional center or Bangkok to get educated.
Money is one way of gaining respect, another is to work for the government. Two examples: As a Thai teacher would you rather earn 30,000 baht teaching (and often gratuitously baby-sitting rich kids) or earning 16,000 serving as a Ka-Ratchakan (serving His Majesty) at a university? In the later, the government paternalistically takes care of you and you have respect and standing in the community, you’re also teaching poor students on scholarship as well as rich ones so you can feel that you are working for the betterment of the country, even if your paycheck is rather small.
Some of Thaksin’s schemes for bridging the rural-urban money -no money divide did not work, because they failed to take into account people’s need for self-respect. For instance, his urban maid training program. Is someone going to give up the independence of farming that their family has been involved in for many generations and live in the dirty city, working at wages that give them a standard of living way below what they had in the countryside, and also subject themselves to all sorts of demeaning things, like not getting paid on time or at all, having your personal liberty severely restricted, and if you’re an attractive young female, warding off the master of the house which is a major problem everywhere for maids, from Hong Kong, to Saudi Arabia, to Singapore.
His Majesty’s self-sufficiency concept buys people self-respect and that’s important part of the equation. Hopefully, more industry, education, and money will flow out to the countryside, and I bet rural folk will become more tied into the system and become better voters as a result.
Democracy-lite
Reply to Patiwat: I know you were being facetious, but the problem is not with Thais generally, but Thai academics, who are “too stupid for democracy”. What this shows is the almost total moral bankcruptcy of the Thai academic establishment.
Surayud to bring love, harmony and virtue (with strengthened military potential)!
Johpa there was a certain Jasmine who posted in the Nation Webboard (Forum #1104) and interestingly she gave an account about the Chiengmai police that reinforces the police corruption you also cited.
——————
Author: Jasmine
Date: 22 Nov 2549 15:35
For 3 years now that I have been living and spending my time with the lovely Thai juveniles in the upper north of Thailand. Through these innocent kids, I have learned that : the government officials will never successfully be able to bring down the rate or even to stop the using of amphetamines by the juveniles in major or modern cities like Chiang-mai, Chiang-rai, Nakhoensawan, Pissanuloke, etc.
The first thing is : there are ,still many low & high ranking law enforcement officials , taking the bribes from the active narcotic networks ; some officials have gone to the worst side, by directly involved in the backing and selling the narcotics to the youth, or giving 5-10 tablets of amphetamines in return for having sex with the female juveniles.
It also happens in Chiang-Mai when bad cops forced good kids to deliver amphetamines to street users, or even to sell marijuana to foreign tourists who come to see major temples in Chiang-mai province.
This mutual exchange can often be seen in the city of Chiang-mai ; any kid in the ring will know. Second thing is : the lack of concern in the part of the government’s social services to patrol the streets to search for the inside information about the welfare of these innocent children in order to find the real cause and to set up any necessary prevention measures to guard them from being exploited and attacked by the narcotic pushers and sellers.
The Society must give more attention and concern to this problem now before more and more children are dragged into this underworld dirty arena — making huge profit on the lives of these beautiful chuildren of Thailand.
Democracy-lite
Jon, I think patiwat’s final comment was supposed to be ironic.
Re the stupidity of the electorate, how many so-called democracies can you point to where the intelligence of the voters could be called into question ? No prizes for guessing which one springs to mind first.
Democracy-lite
Jon, nice summay article in you link.
Some robber barons became philanthropic, so at least we have something to look forward to from Thaksin.
Democracy-lite
It is interesting how everyone dances around the ethnic issues here, politely stated as urban vs rural. Or am I one of the few who thinks that Skinner got his assimilations arse backwards?
Democracy-lite
“It seems that after all these years, and 95% literacy rate, that Thais are still too stupid for democracy.”
If you took an American or an Australian and plopped him or her down in Thailand a week before the election, I think they would have been hard-pressed to know exactly what they were voting for too. In the end they’d probably end up voting the same way as all the other people in the neighborhood, as a sort of default.
Thaksin revolutionised politics. Before Thaksin there were many parties but few well-defined policy platforms. One can acknowledge this while, at the same time, acknowledging that he did a lot of things to alienate a lot of people, as documented in Pasuk’s biography and this Bangkok Post article from the analysis section a few weeks ago:
http://www.readbangkokpost.com/business/shin_sale_and_coup/the_postcoup_search_for_new_th.php#article
I know the weekend before the election this year, I went back tto the provinces from where I work in Bangkok. On Saturday we drove up to the waterfall and the street was lined with signs that almost threatened people that they would lose their 30 baht health insurance if they didn’t vote TRT. At least that’s what all the local people I talked to thought after they read it. These signs were very manipulative and, who knows, maybe against election laws. Anyway, by no means would I call any of the Thai people I know, “stupid”. People lead peaceful and comfortable lives, and this is truly smart.
Democracy-lite
Someone needs to point out to Chaiwat Bunnag that rural people use MPs to fight imperious bureaucrats (and nauseating, condescending intellectuals). Anyone visiting the office of a rural MP would notice the line of people outside looking for help, not just handouts. Of course when the MPs don’t serve them the people then have no choice but to go to the streets.
I didn’t like the idea that urban people “fear” the rural masses but it is beginning to sound like it.
Democracy-lite
It’s a funny circle, this thing about readiness for Democracy: the people have been educated enough to demand it time and time again since 1932, but then they are not educated enough for it because it is messy in their hands. But no one says they are educated/not educated enough for military dictatorship (asked for or not) and no one says they are educated/not educated enough for an absolute monarchy.
So military dictatorhsips and monarchies are only appropriate for idiots, and those people in favor are calling all their Thai mates idiots.
What I wonder is, is all this up-is-down justification going on directed at the Thai people or at foreigners?
“Precious Prince of Hearts” takes Rangsit degree
The only reason Thais are praising the Bhutanese Crown Prince is because they are so frustrated with the Thai Crown Prince.
The fact that the heridatory system treats evil and a virtuous heirs similarly is the chief reason why Thailand needs to get rid of this system.
Middle class-military alliance
Jon, I’ve commented on why Thaksin was so popular with taxi drivers on Bangkok Pundit here and here. Bangkok Pundit himself has some thoughts on the issue here.
Democracy-lite
Partial non-electoral democracy was the driving philosophy behind the Transitory Clauses of the 1932 democracy. Since Thai people at the time were so uneducated in general and particularly about democracy, the Parliament would be half chosen until at least half population had completed primary education (or for ten years).
It seems that after all these years, and 95% literacy rate, that Thais are still too stupid for democracy.
Charles Keyes on Sondhi Limthongkul
I missed James Haughton’s (November 26th, 2006 at 2:35 am) defense of Andrew Walker and why Andrew Walker would require the services of cheerleader James strikes me as odd.
I am flattered to be mistaken for a 14 year old but even a precocious 14 year old do look up to doctorate academicians like Andrew Walker for guidance. And Andrew Walker had written this fib about Thailand’s Sufficiency Economy and all this 14-year old was asking was for Andrew Walker’s enlightenment on how he arrived at at that conclusion that Thailand’s Sufficiency Economy was conceived to keep the Thai poor in shackles of poverty indefinitely. Andrew can always apologize and admit he lied and this 14-year old will understand.
I did not realize James Haughton is enthralled by Thaksin Shinawatra Khmer voodoo daily rituals. So far James those Khmer voodoo spells have been a dud for Thaksin, but not for want of faith or devotion. Let me know if Thaksin Shinawatra turn up in your neighborhood in search of shamans and witches to keep his dark powers potent and all-powerful.
Democracy-lite
Reading the Nation article is very reminiscent of what you read in Michael Nelson’s field work dissertation published by White Lotus (political patronage and godfathers, a campaign worker gets shot dead during the campaigning) and the PKI yearbooks (stressing voter education programmes).
There are a lot of commonalities with the west though. When local politicians start telling you before an election that you’re going to get hooked up to a government run water supply, and the wells stopped running last year during the drought, you’re going to be favorably inclined towards the incumbent. This sort of thing is found everywhere under democracy and could hardly qualify as vote buying.
Democracy-lite
Sounds like there is some precedent for this from medieval Europe, namely estates of the realm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Estate
Come to think of it, most historical Southeast Asian states really didn’t go through a magna-carta stage, did they? Or Europe’s tortuously long “class war” or maybe they did? Anyway, yet more questions to ask of the good ol’ historical sources.