An excellent analysis of the tug of war between Islam and the West since the time of the Prophet. This is indeed a clash of civilizations. The quagmire in the Middle East is certainly the modern version of the Crusades. Having said that,the rise of China,India,Russia and some others will pose problems for Islamic resurgence.How will they deal with that is a moot question.There are significant Muslim populations in China and India.Can they carry the Muslims of South East Asia with their ideology. The Shia-Sunni divide is another problem to be resolved. It’s a situation in flux. How the problems in the Middle East are resolved will determine the outcome of Islamic resurgence.
For those who do not or have read and still confused about Professor Kessler “Islamism” exposée.
–ism usually is an interpretation of an original idea. Inevitable end in perversion and totalitarian.
Karl Marx original treatises of communism from which Leninism, Stalin-ism, Moi-ism, Pol Pot-ism are a good example of progression towards evil using Karl Marx as the originator.
All the improving left out the verything that is required by KM— GOD.
The different b/t Islamism and all other is not the process that corrupt the original Islam and other concepts, is “Islamist use GOD as central to all improvisation/evil”.
Thanks to the Mullah and Ayatollah the so called guardians of Islam. Making all Muslims to perpetually live the dark ages.
As for blaming the Europeans and American involvement in present quagmire, any other path hypothetically taken will still converge towards the Mullah and Ayatollah or through them effecting present inevitable apocalypse.
Before the Americans set them up as beneficiaries of oil production, the Wahhabi sheikhs would have remained as poor as they are ignorant and bigoted. Now their values are poisoning the whole of the Islamic world.
I can’t help thinking that a more enlightened leader in the Roosevelt-Jefferson tradition would have backed the Arab nationalists and got rid of the Sheikhs. Eisenhower backed Nasser over Suez, in a bitter showdown with the greedy and short-sighted British and French. European capital wanted King Farouk. In the end, Arab nationalists would have been easier to manage than the tyrannical, bloodthirsty religious crack-pots the West finally chose. The greedy and benighted West (notably the French) still persist in their hatred for the last of the secular Arab nationalists, Assad. Everybody can see now, how stupid and counterproductive that is. Well, the stupidity goes back more than 50 years. It goes hand-in-hand with that other great policy error, the establishment of Israel.
That’ll be the day, Nich. But you’re right about the NLD coming into power (if the powers that be allow it to exercise power for their own reasons) setting an example and likely inspiring opposition forces around the region.
Perhaps that is exactly the reason why a genuine socialist experiment (definitely not the ‘Burmese Way to Socialism’) cannot be allowed to succeed but must be gently or otherwise encouraged to deviate, falter and fail – what a bad example it will set to the rest as a viable alternative to the capitalist order!
So I’d dearly love to be proven wrong but even such a ‘radical change’ as democratisation in the region more likely than not will be a magical hiatus wonderful while it lasts only to revert to type in many a state. Yes, the Philippines and Indonesia at least lead in a meandering way.
You need to give them more credit than that, they are much more politically aware of the pros and cons of democracy as a result of the last decade, and that’s one of the positives. They may be (mostly) simply educated and prone to following the money or the trend of the village but you should also understand that democracy means lots of different things to different people. For most the ‘voters’ of the world, it’s a chance to choose your leader, and it kind of ends there unfortunately. It’s up to the ‘state mechanisms’ to follow through with lawful and fair execution of ‘democratic’ principals of governance, but of course it’s often interfered with by the victors or powerful. Thailand has seen both undermine democracy, and ultimately it comes down to a national habit of being to forgiving.
“As Thais well know, a democratic system takes decades to fully bed down.”
You are missing the point entirely. The majority of Thais have no idea what it takes to build a democracy. Most Thais don’t even know what a democracy is, which is natural, since they have never experienced the phenomenon themselves and since the education system doesn’t teach “revolutionary ideas” along those lines.
Except the formal use fascination as justification the latter include Asprin.
Both leave the real poverty wanting.
When tourism was not fashionable during the sanction era opportunities were available therefore promoted to see the damaged cause by sanction to the citizenry so much more.
Now tourism is ‘just have enjoying and fascinated by the live of have not’.
Making tourism anymore than above risk being Hypocritical.
Two Malaysians will have 2,000 opinions, depending on the time of day and whether they have had their roti canai and teh tarik. Malaysians always want the easy way out. Fragmentation of Malaysia is hardly the answer. Maintaining a secular social and legal system is. Malaysia should be at least what most of Indonesia is now and what Turkey was before Erbakan and Erdogan, with the addition of reminding the fanatical Malays (liberal Malays hardly need any lessons) that special rights does not mean trampling on non-Malay rights, something evident with Kurds in Turkey today. Penang will go where exactly ? Join Myanmar ? Thailand ? Singapore (maybe, but Penang Malays will riot before that happens) and I doubt any Malaysian is stupid enough to think Penang belongs in China, even if President Xi Jinping thinks it does.
Always wonder why the tradition of Burmese Boxing that has been exhibited at almost all PWhere is not high lighted by this author.
Instead the lowly Cock fighting is.
Cock fighting is akin to social releases as in Soccer and Foot Ball and worst WWE now MMA in the west where violence is glorified promoted and rewarded. The Neighborhood amateur WWE and MMA are growing like rxxx in the sewer.
In Myanmar this tradition has historically predate either Foot Ball or Soccer.
Muay Thai was the invention of Thai to counter Burmese Boxing, MMA without the Cage.
Peter COhen
Both of them have their patron Nat/SAint.
“To quote Clifford Geertz, cockfighting “brings together themes–animal savagery, male narcissism, opponent gambling, status rivalry, mass excitement, blood sacrifice–whose main connection is their involvement with rage and the fear of rage”.
Ma Olivia Cable
Even though this quote, reasonable to the westerner POV,the change will not come except it will be commercialized underground as Thailand, Malaysia, and beyond in Asian Countries by book maker concept that make unacceptable acceptable just like in the west.
Once bitten twice shy, only counting the two historic polls (state violence periodically meted out not included), would account for the response “I’m frightened,” I imagine.
The NLD has its work cut out, to ensure it turns out to be a time for peace across the entire country…. alongside the powerful military now armed with ‘unassailable constitutional powers’. National reconciliation is not an elaborate PR job aimed at détente, as part of a long running good cop bad cop show.
We were ‘senior’ tourists in Hong Kong on polling day Sunday, and watched it on Channel NewsAsia and Al Jazeera as disenfranchised expats – missing names on the embassy list of voters.
The next Friday when the horrific Paris attack happened we saw it on ABC News in Sydney’s CBD. The Tricolore was flown alongside the Australian flag in solidarity on top of Sydney Harbour Bridge and Sydney Opera House was wrapped in the Tricolore at night in lights.
Stirring up a hornet’s nest has led to tragic consequences. It seems the Burmese military has so far got away with it until perhaps a pretext is needed.
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What is “Islamism”?
An excellent analysis of the tug of war between Islam and the West since the time of the Prophet. This is indeed a clash of civilizations. The quagmire in the Middle East is certainly the modern version of the Crusades. Having said that,the rise of China,India,Russia and some others will pose problems for Islamic resurgence.How will they deal with that is a moot question.There are significant Muslim populations in China and India.Can they carry the Muslims of South East Asia with their ideology. The Shia-Sunni divide is another problem to be resolved. It’s a situation in flux. How the problems in the Middle East are resolved will determine the outcome of Islamic resurgence.
What is “Islamism”?
For those who do not or have read and still confused about Professor Kessler “Islamism” exposée.
–ism usually is an interpretation of an original idea. Inevitable end in perversion and totalitarian.
Karl Marx original treatises of communism from which Leninism, Stalin-ism, Moi-ism, Pol Pot-ism are a good example of progression towards evil using Karl Marx as the originator.
All the improving left out the verything that is required by KM— GOD.
The different b/t Islamism and all other is not the process that corrupt the original Islam and other concepts, is “Islamist use GOD as central to all improvisation/evil”.
Thanks to the Mullah and Ayatollah the so called guardians of Islam. Making all Muslims to perpetually live the dark ages.
As for blaming the Europeans and American involvement in present quagmire, any other path hypothetically taken will still converge towards the Mullah and Ayatollah or through them effecting present inevitable apocalypse.
Can democratic Myanmar lead ASEAN?
Neptunian,
Soon Burmese will need one for Malaysia !
Can democratic Myanmar lead ASEAN?
Can Myanmar lead Asean?
ha ha Ha Ha… The rest of Asean citizens still need a visa to visit Myanmar… you tell me..
What is “Islamism”?
Before the Americans set them up as beneficiaries of oil production, the Wahhabi sheikhs would have remained as poor as they are ignorant and bigoted. Now their values are poisoning the whole of the Islamic world.
I can’t help thinking that a more enlightened leader in the Roosevelt-Jefferson tradition would have backed the Arab nationalists and got rid of the Sheikhs. Eisenhower backed Nasser over Suez, in a bitter showdown with the greedy and short-sighted British and French. European capital wanted King Farouk. In the end, Arab nationalists would have been easier to manage than the tyrannical, bloodthirsty religious crack-pots the West finally chose. The greedy and benighted West (notably the French) still persist in their hatred for the last of the secular Arab nationalists, Assad. Everybody can see now, how stupid and counterproductive that is. Well, the stupidity goes back more than 50 years. It goes hand-in-hand with that other great policy error, the establishment of Israel.
Can democratic Myanmar lead ASEAN?
That’ll be the day, Nich. But you’re right about the NLD coming into power (if the powers that be allow it to exercise power for their own reasons) setting an example and likely inspiring opposition forces around the region.
Perhaps that is exactly the reason why a genuine socialist experiment (definitely not the ‘Burmese Way to Socialism’) cannot be allowed to succeed but must be gently or otherwise encouraged to deviate, falter and fail – what a bad example it will set to the rest as a viable alternative to the capitalist order!
So I’d dearly love to be proven wrong but even such a ‘radical change’ as democratisation in the region more likely than not will be a magical hiatus wonderful while it lasts only to revert to type in many a state. Yes, the Philippines and Indonesia at least lead in a meandering way.
Royalty and democracy in Thailand
You need to give them more credit than that, they are much more politically aware of the pros and cons of democracy as a result of the last decade, and that’s one of the positives. They may be (mostly) simply educated and prone to following the money or the trend of the village but you should also understand that democracy means lots of different things to different people. For most the ‘voters’ of the world, it’s a chance to choose your leader, and it kind of ends there unfortunately. It’s up to the ‘state mechanisms’ to follow through with lawful and fair execution of ‘democratic’ principals of governance, but of course it’s often interfered with by the victors or powerful. Thailand has seen both undermine democracy, and ultimately it comes down to a national habit of being to forgiving.
Can democratic Myanmar lead ASEAN?
Myanmar is not yet democratic and the first question is: “Can it lead itself”.
Royalty and democracy in Thailand
“As Thais well know, a democratic system takes decades to fully bed down.”
You are missing the point entirely. The majority of Thais have no idea what it takes to build a democracy. Most Thais don’t even know what a democracy is, which is natural, since they have never experienced the phenomenon themselves and since the education system doesn’t teach “revolutionary ideas” along those lines.
Civilization at what cost?
The question call also be: independence at what cost?
Notes on a Naypyitaw cockfight
Which advertises L.L. Bean Credit Cards. Very global and ecumnenical, Moe.
Notes on a Naypyitaw cockfight
There’s a Facebook Page naturally on Myanmar Let-hwei.
From triumph to tests: Myanmar after the vote
Podcasts from this panel are now available at our SoundCloud account:
https://soundcloud.com/newmandala/sets/myanmar-after-vote-what-next
All the best,
James
Wielding the pen as a torch for freedom
[…] As free speech in Malaysia is muzzled, Michael Vatikiotis reports from one event where people are speaking out. […]
The tour group and the vote
Polling Tourism is worst than Medical Tourism.
Except the formal use fascination as justification the latter include Asprin.
Both leave the real poverty wanting.
When tourism was not fashionable during the sanction era opportunities were available therefore promoted to see the damaged cause by sanction to the citizenry so much more.
Now tourism is ‘just have enjoying and fascinated by the live of have not’.
Making tourism anymore than above risk being Hypocritical.
Wielding the pen as a torch for freedom
Two Malaysians will have 2,000 opinions, depending on the time of day and whether they have had their roti canai and teh tarik. Malaysians always want the easy way out. Fragmentation of Malaysia is hardly the answer. Maintaining a secular social and legal system is. Malaysia should be at least what most of Indonesia is now and what Turkey was before Erbakan and Erdogan, with the addition of reminding the fanatical Malays (liberal Malays hardly need any lessons) that special rights does not mean trampling on non-Malay rights, something evident with Kurds in Turkey today. Penang will go where exactly ? Join Myanmar ? Thailand ? Singapore (maybe, but Penang Malays will riot before that happens) and I doubt any Malaysian is stupid enough to think Penang belongs in China, even if President Xi Jinping thinks it does.
Notes on a Naypyitaw cockfight
Cockfighting brings together animal haters who need money (Peter Cohen).
Wielding the pen as a torch for freedom
Eye wide opened and yet not see.
“I’m Penangite and the different races have grown up well together”.
Islamisation of Penang failing miserably is the only saving grace.
See those Mega/extra large “Chinese Celebratory Candle and Incense Stick ?
And the empty Madrasses fro now on every streets in Penang ?
Ponder those with the eyes and see the attempted future of the government.
Secession will negate the sedition law? No?
Notes on a Naypyitaw cockfight
Always wonder why the tradition of Burmese Boxing that has been exhibited at almost all PWhere is not high lighted by this author.
Instead the lowly Cock fighting is.
Cock fighting is akin to social releases as in Soccer and Foot Ball and worst WWE now MMA in the west where violence is glorified promoted and rewarded. The Neighborhood amateur WWE and MMA are growing like rxxx in the sewer.
In Myanmar this tradition has historically predate either Foot Ball or Soccer.
Muay Thai was the invention of Thai to counter Burmese Boxing, MMA without the Cage.
Peter COhen
Both of them have their patron Nat/SAint.
“To quote Clifford Geertz, cockfighting “brings together themes–animal savagery, male narcissism, opponent gambling, status rivalry, mass excitement, blood sacrifice–whose main connection is their involvement with rage and the fear of rage”.
Ma Olivia Cable
Even though this quote, reasonable to the westerner POV,the change will not come except it will be commercialized underground as Thailand, Malaysia, and beyond in Asian Countries by book maker concept that make unacceptable acceptable just like in the west.
The tour group and the vote
Once bitten twice shy, only counting the two historic polls (state violence periodically meted out not included), would account for the response “I’m frightened,” I imagine.
The NLD has its work cut out, to ensure it turns out to be a time for peace across the entire country…. alongside the powerful military now armed with ‘unassailable constitutional powers’. National reconciliation is not an elaborate PR job aimed at détente, as part of a long running good cop bad cop show.
We were ‘senior’ tourists in Hong Kong on polling day Sunday, and watched it on Channel NewsAsia and Al Jazeera as disenfranchised expats – missing names on the embassy list of voters.
The next Friday when the horrific Paris attack happened we saw it on ABC News in Sydney’s CBD. The Tricolore was flown alongside the Australian flag in solidarity on top of Sydney Harbour Bridge and Sydney Opera House was wrapped in the Tricolore at night in lights.
Stirring up a hornet’s nest has led to tragic consequences. It seems the Burmese military has so far got away with it until perhaps a pretext is needed.