“Sometimes, when i hear people talking about the necessity of a “revolution” i get the feeling that some do not see the trees for the forest.”
” I just said that you have been too lazy to go to the places where such debate takes place quite openly, and/or to read up what has been discussed/debated, and that you base many of your accusations on lack of knowledge.”
“it would be highly naive to think that any sort of revolution could possibly be peaceful in Thailand where the configuration of the fault lines is that the population is almost split in half, with armed groups on both sides.”
It’s OK, Nick. Dismissing any and all disagreement as ignorance, naivety or blindness to consequences is not really taking part in a “discussion” anyway.
Your position, like that of most if not all Red Farang, is that the best Thais can hope for at the present time is some variation on the TRT/PPP/PT theme and that that is what we should call democratic progress. In other words, Thailand is not ready for democracy.
And that is beyond condescending.
It, like to constant repetition of “naive” “ignorant” and “blind”, is ugly.
Very interesting opinions and facts presented in the discussion section. I would like to clarify that the main point of this article was not to discuss Rohingya origins and ancestry, but to highlight the exploitation and ill-treatment of migrants and refugees, and how it is legitimized and justified by the government and their supporters. The article discusses the role of social media in the Rohingya issue, and the role social media has played in shaping an understanding of the situation. The origin and history of the Rohingya, although important, is of secondary importance. What is important is to highlight and discuss the cruelty and brutality these people have been exposed to, and the attempts by some groups to justifying the violence. The problem of the Rohingya is not primarily their ancestry but how they are treated in Myanmar and in the neighboring countries.
This mother of all white elephants stemmed from grandiose delusions (the very name of the city a stark diagnostic pointer) plus paranoia. It certainly is a superlative, destined to become the world’s biggest folly, a theme park and museum, already treated as such by many citizens who visit the place other than govt servants, businessmen and assorted supplicants who don’t have a choice.
Foreigners bearing tribute or otherwise, diplomats, NGO staff, journalists and yes students visit for obvious reasons. Empty hotels, car parks and roads nonetheless. Perhaps not many backpackers, and you can hardly blame them.
One popular attraction seems to be the zoo especially its penguin house, another highlight in opulence, much talked about, to energy poor citizens everywhere else in a tropical clime, also the embodiment of showcase faux progress. We’ve already staged the 27th SEA Games, and very successfully too with borrowed Chinese money and expertise, thank you very much.
The Burmese nation have of course already gone through a long ‘transitional period'(over two decades) of faux socialism, now facing another long ‘transitional period’ of faux democratic transformation, this time with the blessing of the West in collusion for what else but markets and influence, not least major brand names in a belated capitalist globalisation. Better late than never, eh?
“condescending white man’s view”? Now a very ugly tone comes into your argumentation.
And on this note – i will leave the discussion. Experience has taught me that it will lead nowhere to discuss or debate with racists.
“Especially when you compare these developments to what Thailand was before.”
Please do share the condescending white man’s view of what Thailand was before, Nick.
In doing so, you might want to tell us why Isaan, its people and its various representatives, has for some reason provoked the Bangkok establishment into fearing and harshly repressing them for many many years.
And please do repeat the canard that it was the middle classes who brought down the military government in 92 while Thailand’s apolitical peasants cultivated rice and mindlessly waied their betters.
And of course there is the middle class about-face that happened back in 1976 when it looked like democracy was actually going to involve activist unions and organizations of poor farmers making demands from and for the “apolitical” provinces. How could that have happened?
And as a final attempt to dispel the naivety, ignorance and blindness to consequences of anyone who disagrees with you, Nick, could you please explain why morlam performances were banned in Bangkok until 1946?
To not be interested in an electoral system that offers nothing political to the electorate is not to be “apolitical”, Nick.
It is to see the forest for what it is and to concentrate on cultivating other trees.
I agree. Clean drinking water and other basic health care and environmental issues are extremely important for the rural population in Burma, given all those Chinese State-Owned-Busineess polluting the country with their greedy extractive enterprises.
Chelsea Clinton went to Burma a few years ago to help out some villages: http://www.wvi.org/myanmar/gallery/myanmar-village-welcomes-chelsea-clinton
but this is just a drop in the KFC bucket (excuse my pun, not Serge Pun lol)
Maybe it’s what happened when generals planned a city. I’m not against the building of Naypyitaw, especially since Yangon is too prone to populist movements that can seriously undermine the functions of a government, but I’m against the building of that grandiose Naypyitaw. However, it’s still in its infancy and we don’t know what would happen since urbanization in Myanmar continues.
The pride of the junta may stem from the fact that they had nothing when they came to power. A Burmese journalist said, “Military? They have no budget and will go away in a week.” Soon, Western sanctions came in full force and a complete bankruptcy was avoided only by selling the land of Burmese Embassy in Japan for 300 million dollar. Beginning from the late 1990s, their fortune changed when resources were extracted and exported, often at a huge cost to the environment. They wanted to say, “You want to starve us off? See what we built here.”
If you look at what has taken place in Thailand, especially regarding the rise of political awareness under previously politically apathetic sectors of society, the spread of knowledge, and resulting massive increase of debate/discussion – you could quite clearly say that this has been extraordinary and even revolutionary. Especially when you compare these developments to what Thailand was before.
While we may be now in a situation that is not exactly open and liberal, this period will also contribute to further rise in political awareness.
Sometimes, when i hear people talking about the necessity of a “revolution” i get the feeling that some do not see the trees for the forest.
I led a group of American students to Myanmar last January. We also visited Naypyitaw and confirm everything in this article. The place is not merely soulless, it is simply artificial, a synthetic creation sourced in authoritarian hubris at the expense of serious developmental priorities. A visit to the new capital is more like a strange dream than anything familiar in SE Asia. The place is more akin to an empty theme park or vast military base than any kind of city. We couldn’t even detect much future potential for the place. The distance from structure to structure is most peculiar. The place is devoid of city blocks, commercial activity, or organic urban life whatsoever. The roads are not just ridiculously wide but of extremely poor quality in spite of their newness. The new highway that connects the capital with Mandalay is four hours of uneven concrete blocks with needless distance markers every 50 feet. In Naypyitaw the replica Shwedagon Pagoda is already falling apart and under repair. It’s more like a museum than religious site and we shared the place with maybe two dozen other visitors. The white elephants penned nearby symbolize the city itself — sadly captured and a subject of a long gawking stares.
Through a unique contact, we arranged a briefing with one of the hotel managers. In a closed-door room he told us that of Naypyitaw’s sixty large-volume hotels (yes, sixty), only a handful get any business let alone make some profit. Many hotels, he said, are actually the showpieces of business conglomerates connected to high-placed people. They aren’t really intended to make money from guests. He intimated they are used for money-laundering but wouldn’t elaborate. We noticed the vast majority of hotels had at best a handful of vehicles in empty parking lots. Visiting just days before an ASEAN tourism summit, my students asked him what the draw to the city could be in the future outside of government business; what tourists might do in Naypyitaw. He was rather bemused by the question and after a long pause said “Go play golf or go to Safari Park.”
He confirmed that most who work in Naypyitaw go home to Yangon on the weekends and that they leave their kids in Yangon for schooling. He was jaded to the whole project of Naypyitaw and his remarks were of full of chuckles, smirks, and basic contempt for the place. We couldn’t detect an ounce of respect from him for the military or the government. And he was far less sanguine about reforms than others we talked to. He reconciled his existence there with a type of cynicism, not with any pride or entrepreneurial ambition.
We concluded from our visit that the only draw for others to visit Naypyitaw at the present is its oddity. Myanmar’s history is, of course, full of “former capitals” as new dynasties sought to break from past ones. And though the Naypyitaw project may parallel the past in this respect it seems at this juncture hopelessly destined to a Ripley’s Believe-It-or-Not reputation in a world of globalization and modern sensibilities. Among my twelve students, all counted our visit to Naypyitaw among the top highlights of our three weeks in SE Asia. Not because they were impressed by it but because of its “bizzaro-world” character and for what it’s very existence says about Myanmar’s authoritarian state.
Nick,
I mentioned a peaceful revolution not a bloody one. Unfortunately those in power will always defend themselves with violence.
So, please tell me how many thousands have been murdered by political regimes in this country? How many have committed suicide because of debt? How many have died due to lack of medical attention? How many have died through floodings? That is just the start of the numbers who have already died due to all repressive regimes here since 1932.
How many more people must die because of repression?
A revolution does not actually mean a socialist revolution.
It cannot be MY revolution as it must be the peoples revolution.
Egypt is a prime example of a peaceful revolution. Without political leadership it failed. The Egyptian military is reputed to run about 30% of GDP. I wonder how the military in Thailand compares.
How many dead people would be acceptable for you in this revolutionary struggle? 1000? 10 000? 100 000? 3-4 million?
And then, supposedly you win this revolution, what are you going to do with the people who don’t agree with your revolution? Send them into re-education camps? Or just kill them?
The assumed problem I have is that I look at societies from a socialist position. I actually believe in people freeing themselves from the cruelties they face in Thailand.
History tells me over and over again that only a revolutionary struggle can win freedom for the masses. Anything else is pure intelectual masturbation. If anyone is to afraid to fight then they can expect to live in servitude for the rest of their lives.
You are creating a meme. At no point have i ever stated or mentioned that i would be of the opinion that “Thailand would not be ready for democracy”. To accuse me of such not just factually wrong – it is actually quite insulting. This has been one of the main arguments of the Yellow Alliance, and a position i have vehemently argued against for almost a decade – in public and in private.
On the opposite: I have always said and written that Thailand is progressing towards a democracy, and that the Red/Yellow conflict is a necessary stepping stone in this development.
But that the elusive condition of *democracy* is a constant process of development is a point that consistently escapes you. There is no perfect democracy, there never was, there never will be.
A political party that you would wish for would simply not be allowed under present laws in Thailand. That is it. Much structural change has to take place in Thailand before you can get the party that would represent you. There are a lot of people who have been working on this for decades.
It is easy to complain and moan, and harp on what and who you don’t like (which seems to be everybody apart from a few elusive academics) – but answer me this please: How would you suggest to implement the necessary structural changes? What would be your successful strategy to do that?
Is it a revolution you want? How are you gonna do that? Go on twitter and blogs and mobilize your army of democratic fighters from there, and just imagine that your political opponents simply vanish because of the strength of your convictions?
I think Myanmar will be able to retain their culinary culture when the golden arches come to town. Any investment by global brands can be seen as a trade-off. I would like the citizens to have access to fresh drinking water even if it comes at the cost of some globally recognised brands appearing in downtown Yangon.
I know that is what you say Nick. The problem is you are simply wrong.
Like many tunnel-vision folks, whether due to ideological blinkers or the kind that come from thinking that you have to talk with A, B or C to know what is “really happening”, you constantly imagine that if only I “knew” what you “know” I would share your assessment of the situation.
Most of what you imagine I don’t know I do know, having followed this blog among others, and used Twitter to stay abreast of things political in Thailand for many years now. Books and articles and chats with Reds and Yellows I have met. (No doubt not at the exalted social levels of your contacts, where the discourse counts as internal, but people with insights and opinions nevertheless).
I do not come to the same conclusions you do. Shocking I know, but there you have it.
Your stance is basically that Thailand is not ready for democracy, in part because you are not willing to imagine that Thais might want to do what it takes to achieve it rather than simply wait for a crony-capitalist-owned-and-operated “political party” to somehow magically evolve beyond its fundament* and become liberal-democratic.
You are welcome to your faith. Agnostic here I’m afraid.
The comment I responded to puts it well. Without a political party that is democratic in nature and intention there will never be a democracy in Thailand that grows out of a ballot box.
The history is there, and it is a long one. Unfortunately for Thailand, Thai “democratization” really didn’t begin in the year 2000.
Glad you liked Myanmar and want to return. But for me the main charm of the country is: NO McDonalds, NO Starbucks, NO global brands (KFC is a sad development). Nothing is wrong with investments, but believe me: Myanmar does not need this type of investments! It has a culinary culture of its own which it is well advised to retain.
Have people advocating *revolution* thought about the cost of lives such would result in? While one may talk about “peaceful” revolution, it would be highly naive to think that any sort of revolution could possibly be peaceful in Thailand where the configuration of the fault lines is that the population is almost split in half, with armed groups on both sides.
A political party with a “revolutionary platform”? How is that possible within the narrow parameters permitted. Such a party would inevitably be an extra-parliamentary opposition in the present configuration. And Thailand has already many such groups, some smaller, some larger, some more mainstream, others more progressive.
And emjay – please do not distort what i said to you. Never have i stated that you are not “privileged” enough to be part of any internal discourse. I just said that you have been too lazy to go to the places where such debate takes place quite openly, and/or to read up what has been discussed/debated, and that you base many of your accusations on lack of knowledge.
Niphon, you remind me of a dr. Seri who said during the norporporsor protest that phd graduate should get 5 votes and a lowly educated person 1 vote in an election.
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Thailand will never have democracy unless…
“Sometimes, when i hear people talking about the necessity of a “revolution” i get the feeling that some do not see the trees for the forest.”
” I just said that you have been too lazy to go to the places where such debate takes place quite openly, and/or to read up what has been discussed/debated, and that you base many of your accusations on lack of knowledge.”
“it would be highly naive to think that any sort of revolution could possibly be peaceful in Thailand where the configuration of the fault lines is that the population is almost split in half, with armed groups on both sides.”
It’s OK, Nick. Dismissing any and all disagreement as ignorance, naivety or blindness to consequences is not really taking part in a “discussion” anyway.
Your position, like that of most if not all Red Farang, is that the best Thais can hope for at the present time is some variation on the TRT/PPP/PT theme and that that is what we should call democratic progress. In other words, Thailand is not ready for democracy.
And that is beyond condescending.
It, like to constant repetition of “naive” “ignorant” and “blind”, is ugly.
Social media, Rohingya and damn lies
Very interesting opinions and facts presented in the discussion section. I would like to clarify that the main point of this article was not to discuss Rohingya origins and ancestry, but to highlight the exploitation and ill-treatment of migrants and refugees, and how it is legitimized and justified by the government and their supporters. The article discusses the role of social media in the Rohingya issue, and the role social media has played in shaping an understanding of the situation. The origin and history of the Rohingya, although important, is of secondary importance. What is important is to highlight and discuss the cruelty and brutality these people have been exposed to, and the attempts by some groups to justifying the violence. The problem of the Rohingya is not primarily their ancestry but how they are treated in Myanmar and in the neighboring countries.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
This mother of all white elephants stemmed from grandiose delusions (the very name of the city a stark diagnostic pointer) plus paranoia. It certainly is a superlative, destined to become the world’s biggest folly, a theme park and museum, already treated as such by many citizens who visit the place other than govt servants, businessmen and assorted supplicants who don’t have a choice.
Foreigners bearing tribute or otherwise, diplomats, NGO staff, journalists and yes students visit for obvious reasons. Empty hotels, car parks and roads nonetheless. Perhaps not many backpackers, and you can hardly blame them.
One popular attraction seems to be the zoo especially its penguin house, another highlight in opulence, much talked about, to energy poor citizens everywhere else in a tropical clime, also the embodiment of showcase faux progress. We’ve already staged the 27th SEA Games, and very successfully too with borrowed Chinese money and expertise, thank you very much.
The Burmese nation have of course already gone through a long ‘transitional period'(over two decades) of faux socialism, now facing another long ‘transitional period’ of faux democratic transformation, this time with the blessing of the West in collusion for what else but markets and influence, not least major brand names in a belated capitalist globalisation. Better late than never, eh?
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
emjay,
“condescending white man’s view”? Now a very ugly tone comes into your argumentation.
And on this note – i will leave the discussion. Experience has taught me that it will lead nowhere to discuss or debate with racists.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
“Especially when you compare these developments to what Thailand was before.”
Please do share the condescending white man’s view of what Thailand was before, Nick.
In doing so, you might want to tell us why Isaan, its people and its various representatives, has for some reason provoked the Bangkok establishment into fearing and harshly repressing them for many many years.
And please do repeat the canard that it was the middle classes who brought down the military government in 92 while Thailand’s apolitical peasants cultivated rice and mindlessly waied their betters.
And of course there is the middle class about-face that happened back in 1976 when it looked like democracy was actually going to involve activist unions and organizations of poor farmers making demands from and for the “apolitical” provinces. How could that have happened?
And as a final attempt to dispel the naivety, ignorance and blindness to consequences of anyone who disagrees with you, Nick, could you please explain why morlam performances were banned in Bangkok until 1946?
To not be interested in an electoral system that offers nothing political to the electorate is not to be “apolitical”, Nick.
It is to see the forest for what it is and to concentrate on cultivating other trees.
Political implications of Thailand’s royal succession
This is a fair review of the situation and does not come off as biased in any particular direction.
Links are useful. Thanks!
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
I agree. Clean drinking water and other basic health care and environmental issues are extremely important for the rural population in Burma, given all those Chinese State-Owned-Busineess polluting the country with their greedy extractive enterprises.
Chelsea Clinton went to Burma a few years ago to help out some villages:
http://www.wvi.org/myanmar/gallery/myanmar-village-welcomes-chelsea-clinton
but this is just a drop in the KFC bucket (excuse my pun, not Serge Pun lol)
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
Maybe it’s what happened when generals planned a city. I’m not against the building of Naypyitaw, especially since Yangon is too prone to populist movements that can seriously undermine the functions of a government, but I’m against the building of that grandiose Naypyitaw. However, it’s still in its infancy and we don’t know what would happen since urbanization in Myanmar continues.
The pride of the junta may stem from the fact that they had nothing when they came to power. A Burmese journalist said, “Military? They have no budget and will go away in a week.” Soon, Western sanctions came in full force and a complete bankruptcy was avoided only by selling the land of Burmese Embassy in Japan for 300 million dollar. Beginning from the late 1990s, their fortune changed when resources were extracted and exported, often at a huge cost to the environment. They wanted to say, “You want to starve us off? See what we built here.”
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Roy,
If you look at what has taken place in Thailand, especially regarding the rise of political awareness under previously politically apathetic sectors of society, the spread of knowledge, and resulting massive increase of debate/discussion – you could quite clearly say that this has been extraordinary and even revolutionary. Especially when you compare these developments to what Thailand was before.
While we may be now in a situation that is not exactly open and liberal, this period will also contribute to further rise in political awareness.
Sometimes, when i hear people talking about the necessity of a “revolution” i get the feeling that some do not see the trees for the forest.
Malaysian PM should resign, says expert
malaysian are getting smarter now since google..
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
I led a group of American students to Myanmar last January. We also visited Naypyitaw and confirm everything in this article. The place is not merely soulless, it is simply artificial, a synthetic creation sourced in authoritarian hubris at the expense of serious developmental priorities. A visit to the new capital is more like a strange dream than anything familiar in SE Asia. The place is more akin to an empty theme park or vast military base than any kind of city. We couldn’t even detect much future potential for the place. The distance from structure to structure is most peculiar. The place is devoid of city blocks, commercial activity, or organic urban life whatsoever. The roads are not just ridiculously wide but of extremely poor quality in spite of their newness. The new highway that connects the capital with Mandalay is four hours of uneven concrete blocks with needless distance markers every 50 feet. In Naypyitaw the replica Shwedagon Pagoda is already falling apart and under repair. It’s more like a museum than religious site and we shared the place with maybe two dozen other visitors. The white elephants penned nearby symbolize the city itself — sadly captured and a subject of a long gawking stares.
Through a unique contact, we arranged a briefing with one of the hotel managers. In a closed-door room he told us that of Naypyitaw’s sixty large-volume hotels (yes, sixty), only a handful get any business let alone make some profit. Many hotels, he said, are actually the showpieces of business conglomerates connected to high-placed people. They aren’t really intended to make money from guests. He intimated they are used for money-laundering but wouldn’t elaborate. We noticed the vast majority of hotels had at best a handful of vehicles in empty parking lots. Visiting just days before an ASEAN tourism summit, my students asked him what the draw to the city could be in the future outside of government business; what tourists might do in Naypyitaw. He was rather bemused by the question and after a long pause said “Go play golf or go to Safari Park.”
He confirmed that most who work in Naypyitaw go home to Yangon on the weekends and that they leave their kids in Yangon for schooling. He was jaded to the whole project of Naypyitaw and his remarks were of full of chuckles, smirks, and basic contempt for the place. We couldn’t detect an ounce of respect from him for the military or the government. And he was far less sanguine about reforms than others we talked to. He reconciled his existence there with a type of cynicism, not with any pride or entrepreneurial ambition.
We concluded from our visit that the only draw for others to visit Naypyitaw at the present is its oddity. Myanmar’s history is, of course, full of “former capitals” as new dynasties sought to break from past ones. And though the Naypyitaw project may parallel the past in this respect it seems at this juncture hopelessly destined to a Ripley’s Believe-It-or-Not reputation in a world of globalization and modern sensibilities. Among my twelve students, all counted our visit to Naypyitaw among the top highlights of our three weeks in SE Asia. Not because they were impressed by it but because of its “bizzaro-world” character and for what it’s very existence says about Myanmar’s authoritarian state.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Nick,
I mentioned a peaceful revolution not a bloody one. Unfortunately those in power will always defend themselves with violence.
So, please tell me how many thousands have been murdered by political regimes in this country? How many have committed suicide because of debt? How many have died due to lack of medical attention? How many have died through floodings? That is just the start of the numbers who have already died due to all repressive regimes here since 1932.
How many more people must die because of repression?
A revolution does not actually mean a socialist revolution.
It cannot be MY revolution as it must be the peoples revolution.
Egypt is a prime example of a peaceful revolution. Without political leadership it failed. The Egyptian military is reputed to run about 30% of GDP. I wonder how the military in Thailand compares.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
How many dead people would be acceptable for you in this revolutionary struggle? 1000? 10 000? 100 000? 3-4 million?
And then, supposedly you win this revolution, what are you going to do with the people who don’t agree with your revolution? Send them into re-education camps? Or just kill them?
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
The assumed problem I have is that I look at societies from a socialist position. I actually believe in people freeing themselves from the cruelties they face in Thailand.
History tells me over and over again that only a revolutionary struggle can win freedom for the masses. Anything else is pure intelectual masturbation. If anyone is to afraid to fight then they can expect to live in servitude for the rest of their lives.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
You are creating a meme. At no point have i ever stated or mentioned that i would be of the opinion that “Thailand would not be ready for democracy”. To accuse me of such not just factually wrong – it is actually quite insulting. This has been one of the main arguments of the Yellow Alliance, and a position i have vehemently argued against for almost a decade – in public and in private.
On the opposite: I have always said and written that Thailand is progressing towards a democracy, and that the Red/Yellow conflict is a necessary stepping stone in this development.
But that the elusive condition of *democracy* is a constant process of development is a point that consistently escapes you. There is no perfect democracy, there never was, there never will be.
A political party that you would wish for would simply not be allowed under present laws in Thailand. That is it. Much structural change has to take place in Thailand before you can get the party that would represent you. There are a lot of people who have been working on this for decades.
It is easy to complain and moan, and harp on what and who you don’t like (which seems to be everybody apart from a few elusive academics) – but answer me this please: How would you suggest to implement the necessary structural changes? What would be your successful strategy to do that?
Is it a revolution you want? How are you gonna do that? Go on twitter and blogs and mobilize your army of democratic fighters from there, and just imagine that your political opponents simply vanish because of the strength of your convictions?
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
I think Myanmar will be able to retain their culinary culture when the golden arches come to town. Any investment by global brands can be seen as a trade-off. I would like the citizens to have access to fresh drinking water even if it comes at the cost of some globally recognised brands appearing in downtown Yangon.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
I know that is what you say Nick. The problem is you are simply wrong.
Like many tunnel-vision folks, whether due to ideological blinkers or the kind that come from thinking that you have to talk with A, B or C to know what is “really happening”, you constantly imagine that if only I “knew” what you “know” I would share your assessment of the situation.
Most of what you imagine I don’t know I do know, having followed this blog among others, and used Twitter to stay abreast of things political in Thailand for many years now. Books and articles and chats with Reds and Yellows I have met. (No doubt not at the exalted social levels of your contacts, where the discourse counts as internal, but people with insights and opinions nevertheless).
I do not come to the same conclusions you do. Shocking I know, but there you have it.
Your stance is basically that Thailand is not ready for democracy, in part because you are not willing to imagine that Thais might want to do what it takes to achieve it rather than simply wait for a crony-capitalist-owned-and-operated “political party” to somehow magically evolve beyond its fundament* and become liberal-democratic.
You are welcome to your faith. Agnostic here I’m afraid.
The comment I responded to puts it well. Without a political party that is democratic in nature and intention there will never be a democracy in Thailand that grows out of a ballot box.
The history is there, and it is a long one. Unfortunately for Thailand, Thai “democratization” really didn’t begin in the year 2000.
*for fundament and its tenor see Chaucer
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
Glad you liked Myanmar and want to return. But for me the main charm of the country is: NO McDonalds, NO Starbucks, NO global brands (KFC is a sad development). Nothing is wrong with investments, but believe me: Myanmar does not need this type of investments! It has a culinary culture of its own which it is well advised to retain.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Have people advocating *revolution* thought about the cost of lives such would result in? While one may talk about “peaceful” revolution, it would be highly naive to think that any sort of revolution could possibly be peaceful in Thailand where the configuration of the fault lines is that the population is almost split in half, with armed groups on both sides.
A political party with a “revolutionary platform”? How is that possible within the narrow parameters permitted. Such a party would inevitably be an extra-parliamentary opposition in the present configuration. And Thailand has already many such groups, some smaller, some larger, some more mainstream, others more progressive.
And emjay – please do not distort what i said to you. Never have i stated that you are not “privileged” enough to be part of any internal discourse. I just said that you have been too lazy to go to the places where such debate takes place quite openly, and/or to read up what has been discussed/debated, and that you base many of your accusations on lack of knowledge.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Niphon, you remind me of a dr. Seri who said during the norporporsor protest that phd graduate should get 5 votes and a lowly educated person 1 vote in an election.