“Remember, that is just 1 example of a Buddhist family’s kindness…”
“Myanmar is made up of 90+% of these kindness”…
I agree with Plan B’s statements. They reflect the vast majority of Buddhist Bamar people. To generalize that all Bamar are
the same as U Wirathu and all Sri Lankans are Junius Jayawardena is nonsense. Hatred exists, yes, but Plan B is correct to call the notion of some synonymy between Buddhism and Fascism oxymoronic. On the other hand, this does not get any press from those playing their violins and harps for the “hapless” Rohingya:
This is no bad thing. People forget most of the elite in Cambodia were eliminated during the genocide. The uncomfortable truth is that any society would need a class of elites to lead the way, it’s just a different matter how they choose to lead. Hopefully with world class education from abroad, at least some will be imbued with the right values to bring the country forward.
A well written article, and it is always wise to quote Dr. David Steinberg, who’s work on Burma is exemplary. But you only mention in passing (even without mentioning his name; strange) that the only democratic period was under U Nu, just after Burmese independence. This short period is referenced, but it is critical to Burmese history that it be made known that is was U Nu that both allowed and established democratic principles, all too short, as Ne Win crushed all of them by a coup d’état against U Nu. The reason for this coup is rarely addressed. The three freedom fighters, Aung San, U Nu and Ne Win were friends, but only one of the three was a devious liar. It is very simple but must be noted. U Nu was very na├пve, for all his altruism. His appointing Ne Win as Chief of Staff of the Burmese Army was done out of friendship and the belief that Ne Win would protect U Nu against non-democratic and tribal forces. It was a fateful mistake that was to ruin Burma for generations to come. We must be harsh in our judgment that U Nu made a terrible decision, but in the context of Burmese independence history, not an unusual decision. U Nu was the antithesis of Ne Win and the Tatmadaw that followed: Benevolent, altruistic, tolerant, democratic, and let it be known, that under U Nu’s leadership, Burma led Southeast Asia in literacy, rice production and women’s rights. U Nu is not alone in making poor decisions; Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman, also a wise and benevolent leader, made a similar fateful decision in appointing Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad a position in UMNO, the main ruling party, in Malaysia. That also led to devastating consequences for Malaysia for 22 years. Malaysia, like Burma, has strong racial and religious societal factors that inhibit
multicultural democracy. Nevertheless, U Nu also deserved commendation for his vision and what he tried to achieve in post-independence Burma; that he was not a “strongman type” is hardly sufficient reason to ignore or condemn him in toto.
What he did, he did for Burma. Many Burmese ultra-cynics, some on New Mandala, do not share this view. I think they are wrong.
Surprisingly anti-Chinese riots instigated by Ne Win in 1967 did not merit a mention particularly in light of the more recent resumption of hostilities in the Kokang region on the Chinese border.
The regime succeeded in posing as the great defender of national sovereignty when the Kokang are actually indigenous Chinese whose territory came under central control after they fell out with the regime following twenty years of a ceasefire deal that broke down in 2009.
How does that anecdote about LKY and Einstein show the complexity of LKY? IF Lee Kuan Yew had ask ” why Jews were always good at physics”, it serves to tell us that he held certain assumptions about certain racial/cultural groups. This is one of the flaws that Lee Kuan Yew had.If Einstein had answered the question by playing into the assumption, it shows that Einstein also held some racist view. This is an example of a ‘thin analysis’
excellent article.
It seems another tactic by cyber warriors is to get people’s facebook accounts deleted – since this afternoon i can’t access my facebook page anymore. It says that my name is not accepted under facebook’s real name policy.
An excellent pierce of work which reflects the reality and my own experience very nicely.
Reading Facebook pages improved my knowledge of Thai language insults, dirty words and abuse to a higher level and I am still learning new words. Listening to Prayut gives you also a sense of how Thais insult one another.
Malaysian is not a race or ethnicity. Many Cocos Island Malays immigrated to Malaysia
(Sabah) and due to the government labeling all Malays as Malaysians, they easily acquired Malaysian citizenship. Therefore, they are Malays and Malaysians. Only those Cocos Island Malays that have not immigrated to Malaysia, remain non-Malaysian.
It seems, from some words used by Cocos Keling island community, it seems that the community originally coming from Banten and Betawi, a sub-ethnic in West Java, Indonesia.
I am sorry to say this. Just want to express some statement. Majority (98%) writings by non-SEA people or non-Asia people (western people) are cannot be trusted. Just let SEA/Asia people write on our perspectives pros and cons about Asia. Your (western)comments are accepted but not your ideas and recommendation. Thank you.
I didn’t say they did it alone, but that those environments are a constant reminder of the people who contributed most to them. What particularly impressed me about Singapore was not the tower blocks where many ordinary people lived (inevitable at such a high population density), but the immaculately kept public gardens and amenities surrounding them at ground level. A canopy of huge rain trees provides a large public space shaded from the hot sun, and blocks out the sight of the ugly buildings (a brilliant touch). Nowhere in the world have I seen such pervasive evidence of meritocracy as in Singapore’s public spaces.
The epitaph, which I largely plagiarised from Wren’s, also said that Lee was the founder of the city-state and devoted his long life to the public good.
Democracy, to a large extent, makes do with the prevailing values of ordinary people. It has the potential to slowly shape them for the better, but cannot save them from mass folly. Lee was an outstandingly brilliant man in a hurry, whose power was founded on good ideas. He did not reflect the prevailing values, but rapidly shaped them for the better. He did not suffer fools gladly, and has clearly made bitter enemies of them.
An excellent analytical piece that pushes outall other conjecturing about the current events in these countries.
In contrast to Burma, the Thai Muslims from Songkhla and Phukhet to Chiangmai are well integrated. This tells that religion is not the problem but policies are. While the case of Pattani is Tim Frewer’s terminology a “colonial mess”.
The image of 1930s Rangoon as a city of glamour and wealth for the Indians is also displayed in Bollywood movies and popular novels of that era.
Thus there is a need for a wider view that includes the Empire.
The people quoted in this article have clearly never read the hadith:
“While the Koran merely describes the punishments that await the apostate in the next world (Koran 3:86-91), the hadith is emphatic about the justice that must be meted out in this one: ‘Whoever changes his religion, kill him.’ No metaphor hides this directive, and it would seem that no process of liberal hermeneutics can brush it aside. We might be tempted to accord great significance to the fact that the injunction does not appear in the Koran itself, but in practical terms the hadith literature seems to be every bit as constitutive of the Muslim worldview. Given the fact that the hadith is often used as the lens through which to interpret the Koran, many Muslim jurists consider it to be an even greater authority on the practice of Islam. It is true that some liberal jurist require that the apostate subsequently speak against Islam before sanctioning his murder, but the penalty itself is generally not considered ‘extreme.’ The justice of killing apostates is a matter of mainstream acceptance, if not practice.”
– Sam Harris, The End of Faith
But no, let’s keep pretending that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance that doesn’t condone killing apostates and non-believers.
I can’t wait for the BDS campaigns against Burma. Can we expect loud campus protests against the “Apartheid” like conditions in Arakan ? Cries of “Bamar, to the ovens” ?
Too bad Burma has little to boycott and even fewer nations that would go along. The Rohingya are not, and never were, Burmese, and they are migrants from Bangladesh. Now, let’s talk about Islam fascism in Bangladesh against Asiatic Hill Tribes, Ahmadiyya Muslims, Hindus and Christian minorities.
I is hilarious that you mention Khmer and Burmese nationalists “drawn” to fascism. U Nu was drawn to fascism ? Tunku Abdul Rahman ? No, not all were, though many were.
You think Aung San was more enamoured of the Japanese than Sukarno, Muhammad Hatta, Ishak Haji Muhammad, the Thai and Indonesian Royal families, Chandra Bose (an avowed Hitler
admirer), and many others. Hardly any nationalist movement in Southeast Asia did not have aid and support from Japan, willingly accepted and used. Let’s see this discussed in Indonesia and Malaysia. Good luck.
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Fascist assemblages in Cambodia and Myanmar
Plan B,
It’s spelled “Fascist”
“Remember, that is just 1 example of a Buddhist family’s kindness…”
“Myanmar is made up of 90+% of these kindness”…
I agree with Plan B’s statements. They reflect the vast majority of Buddhist Bamar people. To generalize that all Bamar are
the same as U Wirathu and all Sri Lankans are Junius Jayawardena is nonsense. Hatred exists, yes, but Plan B is correct to call the notion of some synonymy between Buddhism and Fascism oxymoronic. On the other hand, this does not get any press from those playing their violins and harps for the “hapless” Rohingya:
http://www.siasat.com/english/news/indonesian-groups-call-jihad-against-burma-dismay-burmese-muslims
A hopeful moment for civil society in Myanmar
“just one step on the long journey of enshrining the international rights and freedoms its people so desperately crave.” and desperately deserved.
The NGO and other civil society need to grasp the gist of what Myanmar is other than Historically, first just as in Malaysia, and Vietnam.
Then may assist the local toward the unique place in the International forum.
Fascist assemblages in Cambodia and Myanmar
Mr Frewer appear to be a very competent literature researcher.
Surely able to suggest something lilly white to anything other than.
Please Mr Frewer do this live reseach:
1) Visit any city a commercial airline have access to in YaKhine.
2) Take a day hike to a near villages.
3) Visit anyone home unannounced.
4) Go back to the modern accommodation after refusing to stay free with the host for umteenth times.
Remember, that is just 1 example of a Buddhist family’s kindness.
Myanmar is made up of 90+% of these kindness.
Buddo-Facist !
An oxymoron indeed.
A hopeful moment for civil society in Myanmar
“275 civil society organizations” Who?
“….just one step on the long journey of enshrining the international rights..” Now you are talking.
“International rights.” Right you are.
Blood and marriage in Cambodia
This is no bad thing. People forget most of the elite in Cambodia were eliminated during the genocide. The uncomfortable truth is that any society would need a class of elites to lead the way, it’s just a different matter how they choose to lead. Hopefully with world class education from abroad, at least some will be imbued with the right values to bring the country forward.
A hopeful moment for civil society in Myanmar
A well written article, and it is always wise to quote Dr. David Steinberg, who’s work on Burma is exemplary. But you only mention in passing (even without mentioning his name; strange) that the only democratic period was under U Nu, just after Burmese independence. This short period is referenced, but it is critical to Burmese history that it be made known that is was U Nu that both allowed and established democratic principles, all too short, as Ne Win crushed all of them by a coup d’état against U Nu. The reason for this coup is rarely addressed. The three freedom fighters, Aung San, U Nu and Ne Win were friends, but only one of the three was a devious liar. It is very simple but must be noted. U Nu was very na├пve, for all his altruism. His appointing Ne Win as Chief of Staff of the Burmese Army was done out of friendship and the belief that Ne Win would protect U Nu against non-democratic and tribal forces. It was a fateful mistake that was to ruin Burma for generations to come. We must be harsh in our judgment that U Nu made a terrible decision, but in the context of Burmese independence history, not an unusual decision. U Nu was the antithesis of Ne Win and the Tatmadaw that followed: Benevolent, altruistic, tolerant, democratic, and let it be known, that under U Nu’s leadership, Burma led Southeast Asia in literacy, rice production and women’s rights. U Nu is not alone in making poor decisions; Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman, also a wise and benevolent leader, made a similar fateful decision in appointing Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad a position in UMNO, the main ruling party, in Malaysia. That also led to devastating consequences for Malaysia for 22 years. Malaysia, like Burma, has strong racial and religious societal factors that inhibit
multicultural democracy. Nevertheless, U Nu also deserved commendation for his vision and what he tried to achieve in post-independence Burma; that he was not a “strongman type” is hardly sufficient reason to ignore or condemn him in toto.
What he did, he did for Burma. Many Burmese ultra-cynics, some on New Mandala, do not share this view. I think they are wrong.
Fascist assemblages in Cambodia and Myanmar
Surprisingly anti-Chinese riots instigated by Ne Win in 1967 did not merit a mention particularly in light of the more recent resumption of hostilities in the Kokang region on the Chinese border.
The regime succeeded in posing as the great defender of national sovereignty when the Kokang are actually indigenous Chinese whose territory came under central control after they fell out with the regime following twenty years of a ceasefire deal that broke down in 2009.
Mandalay is in fact like a tinder box for a return of 1967. Another string to the bow of this habitual offender of a fascist regime with democratic pretensions.
Lee Kuan Yew’s political legacy – a matter of trust
How does that anecdote about LKY and Einstein show the complexity of LKY? IF Lee Kuan Yew had ask ” why Jews were always good at physics”, it serves to tell us that he held certain assumptions about certain racial/cultural groups. This is one of the flaws that Lee Kuan Yew had.If Einstein had answered the question by playing into the assumption, it shows that Einstein also held some racist view. This is an example of a ‘thin analysis’
Assess Lee Kuan Yew? Which one?
Punches pulled, perhaps wisely.
Thailand’s social media battleground
excellent article.
It seems another tactic by cyber warriors is to get people’s facebook accounts deleted – since this afternoon i can’t access my facebook page anymore. It says that my name is not accepted under facebook’s real name policy.
?!?
Thailand’s social media battleground
An excellent pierce of work which reflects the reality and my own experience very nicely.
Reading Facebook pages improved my knowledge of Thai language insults, dirty words and abuse to a higher level and I am still learning new words. Listening to Prayut gives you also a sense of how Thais insult one another.
Australia’s Malay population
Fregatta,
Malaysian is not a race or ethnicity. Many Cocos Island Malays immigrated to Malaysia
(Sabah) and due to the government labeling all Malays as Malaysians, they easily acquired Malaysian citizenship. Therefore, they are Malays and Malaysians. Only those Cocos Island Malays that have not immigrated to Malaysia, remain non-Malaysian.
Thailand’s social media battleground
Thank you for this outstanding and most informative article. Enough to make one┬┤s stomach turn at the present situation in Thailand.
Australia’s Malay population
It seems, from some words used by Cocos Keling island community, it seems that the community originally coming from Banten and Betawi, a sub-ethnic in West Java, Indonesia.
Indeed, they are Malay, but not Malaysian.
Agriculture in Malaysia’s economic and social transformation
I am sorry to say this. Just want to express some statement. Majority (98%) writings by non-SEA people or non-Asia people (western people) are cannot be trusted. Just let SEA/Asia people write on our perspectives pros and cons about Asia. Your (western)comments are accepted but not your ideas and recommendation. Thank you.
Lee Kuan Yew’s political legacy – a matter of trust
I didn’t say they did it alone, but that those environments are a constant reminder of the people who contributed most to them. What particularly impressed me about Singapore was not the tower blocks where many ordinary people lived (inevitable at such a high population density), but the immaculately kept public gardens and amenities surrounding them at ground level. A canopy of huge rain trees provides a large public space shaded from the hot sun, and blocks out the sight of the ugly buildings (a brilliant touch). Nowhere in the world have I seen such pervasive evidence of meritocracy as in Singapore’s public spaces.
The epitaph, which I largely plagiarised from Wren’s, also said that Lee was the founder of the city-state and devoted his long life to the public good.
Democracy, to a large extent, makes do with the prevailing values of ordinary people. It has the potential to slowly shape them for the better, but cannot save them from mass folly. Lee was an outstandingly brilliant man in a hurry, whose power was founded on good ideas. He did not reflect the prevailing values, but rapidly shaped them for the better. He did not suffer fools gladly, and has clearly made bitter enemies of them.
Fascist assemblages in Cambodia and Myanmar
An excellent analytical piece that pushes outall other conjecturing about the current events in these countries.
In contrast to Burma, the Thai Muslims from Songkhla and Phukhet to Chiangmai are well integrated. This tells that religion is not the problem but policies are. While the case of Pattani is Tim Frewer’s terminology a “colonial mess”.
The image of 1930s Rangoon as a city of glamour and wealth for the Indians is also displayed in Bollywood movies and popular novels of that era.
Thus there is a need for a wider view that includes the Empire.
Lee Kuan Yew’s political legacy – a matter of trust
Excellent assessment!
Lived there 1990-97. Glad to have got out of the dog eat dog meritocracy.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
The people quoted in this article have clearly never read the hadith:
“While the Koran merely describes the punishments that await the apostate in the next world (Koran 3:86-91), the hadith is emphatic about the justice that must be meted out in this one: ‘Whoever changes his religion, kill him.’ No metaphor hides this directive, and it would seem that no process of liberal hermeneutics can brush it aside. We might be tempted to accord great significance to the fact that the injunction does not appear in the Koran itself, but in practical terms the hadith literature seems to be every bit as constitutive of the Muslim worldview. Given the fact that the hadith is often used as the lens through which to interpret the Koran, many Muslim jurists consider it to be an even greater authority on the practice of Islam. It is true that some liberal jurist require that the apostate subsequently speak against Islam before sanctioning his murder, but the penalty itself is generally not considered ‘extreme.’ The justice of killing apostates is a matter of mainstream acceptance, if not practice.”
– Sam Harris, The End of Faith
But no, let’s keep pretending that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance that doesn’t condone killing apostates and non-believers.
Fascist assemblages in Cambodia and Myanmar
I can’t wait for the BDS campaigns against Burma. Can we expect loud campus protests against the “Apartheid” like conditions in Arakan ? Cries of “Bamar, to the ovens” ?
Too bad Burma has little to boycott and even fewer nations that would go along. The Rohingya are not, and never were, Burmese, and they are migrants from Bangladesh. Now, let’s talk about Islam fascism in Bangladesh against Asiatic Hill Tribes, Ahmadiyya Muslims, Hindus and Christian minorities.
I is hilarious that you mention Khmer and Burmese nationalists “drawn” to fascism. U Nu was drawn to fascism ? Tunku Abdul Rahman ? No, not all were, though many were.
You think Aung San was more enamoured of the Japanese than Sukarno, Muhammad Hatta, Ishak Haji Muhammad, the Thai and Indonesian Royal families, Chandra Bose (an avowed Hitler
admirer), and many others. Hardly any nationalist movement in Southeast Asia did not have aid and support from Japan, willingly accepted and used. Let’s see this discussed in Indonesia and Malaysia. Good luck.