No, Jokowi and Prabowo reflect a dearth of choices in quality candidates in Indonesia, reflective of the incomplete maturation of the Indonesian electorate. There are as many Indonesians as frustrated with Megawati or
Gus Dur (whom I admired philosophically, but not technocratically) or Habibie, and certainly Soeharto and Soekarno, as there are Indonesians upset with SBY, for varied reasons. This is not a one-off phenomenon, but a culmination of Indonesia’s erratic experiments in “Islamised Democracy”, a set of experiments that are in their infancy, and have a long way to go before the research data can be “published”. The desire for democracy among the Indonesian electorate, vastly exceeds the institutional requirements for its inculcation.
[…] Prabowo earlier today attempted to back away from his anti-democracy comments, arguing that he meant only that Indonesia should consider elections that are less costly to the state and that democracy should unfold in a way to discourage corruption: […]
Well, it appears the cat has been let out of the bag over the past week or so.
First there was the admission by Suthep that he has been actively scheming to overthrow the democratically elected government with Prayuth and his team for several years via Skype.
So yes, as everyone suspected, the whole situation was indeed staged to provide a pretext to assume power using force.
that the dictators intend to hand pick a new constitution drafting committee and reform council to write a new ‘permanent constitution’ that will strictly not be put to the Thai people via referendum for endorsement.
It will apparently be a dictators constitution, written wholly and solely by the dictators hand picked representatives. It is indeed revealing that there will be zero room for the participation or involvement of the Thai people in this extremely important process, unless of course they happen to be some of the hand picked representatives of the dictators.
Needless to say, the ‘permanent’ dictator written constitution will purely represent the best interests of those who are writing it because there is no mechanism for oversight or involvement of people outside the hand picked clique of dictators representatives.
As such, the cat is indeed out of the bag and it is now patently clear that the dictators intend to establish a fascist state, whereby they and only they, can shape the framework and future of the nation, over and above the will of all the Thai people.
It’s officially their way, or be called in for a widely feared ‘chat’. The affect on those who attend the chats (at least those who have been released) is that they have been universally intimidated into complete silence. Something tells me they are not compelled into total submission by the military’s moral arguments.
Through this latest revelation on the intention to dictate the terms of the permanent constitution to the people, the dictators are effectively ruling that the will of the Thai people is henceforth irrelevant, only the dictators enlightened vision of the future counts and that is what will be implemented.
What a sad, dehumanizing time in history this is for the Thai people. My heart goes out to all Thais who are forced to watch their dream of a free, democratic Thailand where their dreams count, and are represented through their right to vote, get crushed by an extremely powerful and shameless minority who will stop at nothing to retain absolute control over the nations future and it’s spoils.
“If my faith in the basic common sense of the Indonesian electorate is misplaced and a majority of voters choose Prabowo, well, the Indonesian people will get the government they deserve.”
That is the one statement in the commentary above that is mostly valid. Stating that Indonesians are not “idiots” is a straw man, as I don’t recall anyone on NM saying that they were. Having said that, both Ms Pisani and a portion of Indonesians might be a bit naive, and Ms Pisani’s faith in the Indonesian electorate lacks any precedent for such a belief. India is a democracy, Indonesia is a work in “progress”. In India, NO former military officer runs for the PM position or Presidential office. If they did, by law, their ties to the Indian military must be totally cut, and they will be examined very closely to ensure that they are. The military in India is both honest and is not involved in federal politics. That is NOT the case in Indonesia. There are at least four legal Communist parties in India; there are none in Indonesia. In fact, it is widely known that the Communist parties in India are the least corrupt of all the parties, which even many non-Communist Indians readily admit. India has poverty, corruption and internecine violence, but it also has a Supreme Court, that is totally independent, objective and honest. Indonesia does not. Muslims make up 15 % of India, but Shari’a Law and Hudud are illegal in secular India. Therefore, there are no extreme punishments, that one frequently finds in the Middle-East, and may soon find in Malaysia.
Problems persist in India, like misogyny and rape and the impenetrable caste systems, but India is more progressive today than 66 years ago at partition and Independence. India has had three Muslim Presidents, one Sikh Prime Minister, three Christian Defence Ministers, and two Jewish Mayors of Mumbai, as well as a Jewish Two-Star General in the Indian Army that led four contingents of Hindu and Sikh soldiers. Naturally, Hindus have also held those positions, but obviously, not exclusively. Exactly how many Presidents, Governors, Defence Ministers and other high-level positions, in Indonesia, have been occupied by Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Animists and atheists ? Soekarno was half Balinese, but more a Socialist than a devout believer in any one established religion, and Benny Moerdani was a Roman Catholic, but given his brusque performance in the Army, one may fairly ask “How often did he go to confession” ? In the end, were we to be really honest with ourselves, we would ask: “Would Indonesia ever elect a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Animist or (Allah forbid) an atheist, President” ?
I think not, at least in the near future. The President will always be a Muslim, for quite some time. India and Indonesia have some similarities in both having historical origins in Hinduism and Buddhism, though Islam prevailed in most of Indonesia, where
it did not, in India. Indonesia will be democratic when it has a Hindu or atheist
President, Amadiyah and Shi’ite Muslims are
not persecuted, the military is completely independent from federal politics, and all ideological viewpoints are allowed, socially
and politically. Prabowo’s problem is that he would say that this is all some “Western conspiracy” or “An attempt to impose Western values on Indonesia”. NO, Prabowo, it is not.
If any imposition at all, it is an attempt to impose Indian democracy on Indonesia, something, given the close ties between both nations, Indonesia can learn from. So, maybe
Ms Pisani’s faith is not so much misplaced, as is her confidence in the integrity and resilience of Indonesian political, cultural and social institutions. Given the two candidates for President, I am far less confident than Ms Pisani, in the political wisdom displayed by many Indonesians.
Here is another simple solution for secure computer use under repressive regimes(with the obvious caveat that it might not be suitable if you are engaged in extreme anti-american, criminal or terrorist activity).
From the blurb: Lightweight Portable Security (LPS) is a Linux LiveCD, (or LiveUSB), developed and publicly distributed by the United States Department of Defense’s Software Protection Initiative that is designed to serve as a secure end node. It can run on almost any Intel-based computer (PC or Mac). LPS boots only in RAM, creating a pristine, non-persistent, end node. It is capable using Common Access Card (CAC) software for authentication into DoD networks. LPS-Public turns an untrusted system (such as a home computer) into a trusted network client. No trace of work activity (or malware) can be written to the local computer hard drive. As of September 2011 (version 1.2.5), the LPS public distribution includes a smart card-enabled Firefox browser supporting DoD’s CAC and Personal Identity Verification (PIV) cards, a PDF and text viewer, Java, a file browser, remote desktop software (Citrix, Microsoft or VMware View), an SSH client, the public edition of Encryption Wizard and the ability to use USB flash drives. A Public Deluxe version is available that adds OpenOffice.org and Adobe Reader software
Landasan Negara kita jelas ; UUD 1945 & PANCASILA.
Perwujudan Demokrasi tergambar jelas pada Sila Ke-4 Pancasila & Pasal 28 UUD ’45.
Mari kita hayati bersama,
“Kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh khidmat kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan perwakilan”.
Patut diakui bahwa kita telah terseret jauh mengikuti “Liberalisasi” Asing.
Salahkah jika kita kembali ke UUD ’45 & PANCASILA sbg dasar negara…???
Sebagaimana jg diajarkan dlm Islam bgmna demokrasi itu.
Sceptic: Indeed the 70k arrests does show that it was not all killing, but there was certainly plenty of shooting by the police going on. Thaksin never sought to investigate nor provide a proper accounting on what transpired….
Prayuth was quick to put into practice his own silly xenophobic ideas about foreign workers. The mess that caused has surely undermined him. How many more such maggots can we expect to emerge from his brain before he is toppled?
Sebenarnya sudah terlihat cara berpikir Prabowo akan seperti ORBA Soeharto, jd g perlu diperdebatkan ‘menantu pasti akan membela mertuanya’, It’s Indonesian Culture.
I’ve just read Meitzner & Aspinall’s new post. This post with the raw transcription needs to include a brief analysis of that sort, even if it is just two lines and a link to Meitzner & Aspinall’s new post.
In its current form, this post can be easily shared with Prabowo supporters as evidence that he is democratic and, ironically, that Westerners agree. They will not read any of the other posts that have repeatedly said that he isn’t democratic. (Even though they sing anti-Western rhetoric, they also crave Western approval in some ways. Some call it ‘internalized racism’. Postcolonial theory anyone? As you can see from one of the comments above, something as simple as Prabowo’s English skills can be a cause for respect.)
Prabowo is an enabler par excellence and does not evoke Soeharto’s Pancasila system. There is no question, Prabowo, would placate Islamic interests, both within, and outside of, Indonesia. Prabowo caters to the extremes
in Indonesian society and does not seek consensus. His abysmal human rights record
is one clear indication of that. Prabowo hardly has Soeharto’s mien, which was far more stable, unemotional, well-focused and productive, than Prabowo’s irrational and immature personality, hardly conducive to leadership of a nation of 250 million people. Prabowo’s “answer” was an exercise in classic dissembling and disingenuousness, all done, in an erratic and non-linear manner. Prabowo is not qualified to be President of Indonesia or even President of Disneyland.
I think a transcript like this needs to be accompanied with an analysis, otherwise it undoes much of the work that authors at New Mandala has done in exposing Prabowo’s actions and empty rhetoric. Prabowo has churned empty rhetoric after empty rhetoric throughout his campaign but he continues to rise in popularity. His rhetoric often contradicts his actions. But obviously many – even the highly educated ones who are familiar with the events of 1998 – are fooled by his empty rhetoric (there’s at least one example already on this thread) because he knows how to deliver it beautifully.
So I think it is dangerous to present this transcript in its raw form on a university funded forum (which adds to the credibility of things posted) like this given the close race. (And we can’t expect the majority of readers to read the comment thread that does include some analysis.)
I read the junta said they have the right to issue a new constitution without vote or referendum. Made me wonder where did they get the right. Thai military people are out of touch with the world. Their barracks, tanks, and guns are the world.
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Jokowi and Prabowo reflect a decade of frustrations with SBY
No, Jokowi and Prabowo reflect a dearth of choices in quality candidates in Indonesia, reflective of the incomplete maturation of the Indonesian electorate. There are as many Indonesians as frustrated with Megawati or
Gus Dur (whom I admired philosophically, but not technocratically) or Habibie, and certainly Soeharto and Soekarno, as there are Indonesians upset with SBY, for varied reasons. This is not a one-off phenomenon, but a culmination of Indonesia’s erratic experiments in “Islamised Democracy”, a set of experiments that are in their infancy, and have a long way to go before the research data can be “published”. The desire for democracy among the Indonesian electorate, vastly exceeds the institutional requirements for its inculcation.
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
[…] Prabowo earlier today attempted to back away from his anti-democracy comments, arguing that he meant only that Indonesia should consider elections that are less costly to the state and that democracy should unfold in a way to discourage corruption: […]
Thai coup: The debate continues
Well, it appears the cat has been let out of the bag over the past week or so.
First there was the admission by Suthep that he has been actively scheming to overthrow the democratically elected government with Prayuth and his team for several years via Skype.
So yes, as everyone suspected, the whole situation was indeed staged to provide a pretext to assume power using force.
Today it was revealed via Bangkok post:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/418431/ncpo-keeps-special-powers-over-govt
that the dictators intend to hand pick a new constitution drafting committee and reform council to write a new ‘permanent constitution’ that will strictly not be put to the Thai people via referendum for endorsement.
It will apparently be a dictators constitution, written wholly and solely by the dictators hand picked representatives. It is indeed revealing that there will be zero room for the participation or involvement of the Thai people in this extremely important process, unless of course they happen to be some of the hand picked representatives of the dictators.
Needless to say, the ‘permanent’ dictator written constitution will purely represent the best interests of those who are writing it because there is no mechanism for oversight or involvement of people outside the hand picked clique of dictators representatives.
As such, the cat is indeed out of the bag and it is now patently clear that the dictators intend to establish a fascist state, whereby they and only they, can shape the framework and future of the nation, over and above the will of all the Thai people.
It’s officially their way, or be called in for a widely feared ‘chat’. The affect on those who attend the chats (at least those who have been released) is that they have been universally intimidated into complete silence. Something tells me they are not compelled into total submission by the military’s moral arguments.
Through this latest revelation on the intention to dictate the terms of the permanent constitution to the people, the dictators are effectively ruling that the will of the Thai people is henceforth irrelevant, only the dictators enlightened vision of the future counts and that is what will be implemented.
What a sad, dehumanizing time in history this is for the Thai people. My heart goes out to all Thais who are forced to watch their dream of a free, democratic Thailand where their dreams count, and are represented through their right to vote, get crushed by an extremely powerful and shameless minority who will stop at nothing to retain absolute control over the nations future and it’s spoils.
Indonesians are not idiots
“If my faith in the basic common sense of the Indonesian electorate is misplaced and a majority of voters choose Prabowo, well, the Indonesian people will get the government they deserve.”
That is the one statement in the commentary above that is mostly valid. Stating that Indonesians are not “idiots” is a straw man, as I don’t recall anyone on NM saying that they were. Having said that, both Ms Pisani and a portion of Indonesians might be a bit naive, and Ms Pisani’s faith in the Indonesian electorate lacks any precedent for such a belief. India is a democracy, Indonesia is a work in “progress”. In India, NO former military officer runs for the PM position or Presidential office. If they did, by law, their ties to the Indian military must be totally cut, and they will be examined very closely to ensure that they are. The military in India is both honest and is not involved in federal politics. That is NOT the case in Indonesia. There are at least four legal Communist parties in India; there are none in Indonesia. In fact, it is widely known that the Communist parties in India are the least corrupt of all the parties, which even many non-Communist Indians readily admit. India has poverty, corruption and internecine violence, but it also has a Supreme Court, that is totally independent, objective and honest. Indonesia does not. Muslims make up 15 % of India, but Shari’a Law and Hudud are illegal in secular India. Therefore, there are no extreme punishments, that one frequently finds in the Middle-East, and may soon find in Malaysia.
Problems persist in India, like misogyny and rape and the impenetrable caste systems, but India is more progressive today than 66 years ago at partition and Independence. India has had three Muslim Presidents, one Sikh Prime Minister, three Christian Defence Ministers, and two Jewish Mayors of Mumbai, as well as a Jewish Two-Star General in the Indian Army that led four contingents of Hindu and Sikh soldiers. Naturally, Hindus have also held those positions, but obviously, not exclusively. Exactly how many Presidents, Governors, Defence Ministers and other high-level positions, in Indonesia, have been occupied by Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Animists and atheists ? Soekarno was half Balinese, but more a Socialist than a devout believer in any one established religion, and Benny Moerdani was a Roman Catholic, but given his brusque performance in the Army, one may fairly ask “How often did he go to confession” ? In the end, were we to be really honest with ourselves, we would ask: “Would Indonesia ever elect a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Animist or (Allah forbid) an atheist, President” ?
I think not, at least in the near future. The President will always be a Muslim, for quite some time. India and Indonesia have some similarities in both having historical origins in Hinduism and Buddhism, though Islam prevailed in most of Indonesia, where
it did not, in India. Indonesia will be democratic when it has a Hindu or atheist
President, Amadiyah and Shi’ite Muslims are
not persecuted, the military is completely independent from federal politics, and all ideological viewpoints are allowed, socially
and politically. Prabowo’s problem is that he would say that this is all some “Western conspiracy” or “An attempt to impose Western values on Indonesia”. NO, Prabowo, it is not.
If any imposition at all, it is an attempt to impose Indian democracy on Indonesia, something, given the close ties between both nations, Indonesia can learn from. So, maybe
Ms Pisani’s faith is not so much misplaced, as is her confidence in the integrity and resilience of Indonesian political, cultural and social institutions. Given the two candidates for President, I am far less confident than Ms Pisani, in the political wisdom displayed by many Indonesians.
Condemnation of the coup
Here is another simple solution for secure computer use under repressive regimes(with the obvious caveat that it might not be suitable if you are engaged in extreme anti-american, criminal or terrorist activity).
Introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_Portable_Security
Download here: http://spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm
From the blurb: Lightweight Portable Security (LPS) is a Linux LiveCD, (or LiveUSB), developed and publicly distributed by the United States Department of Defense’s Software Protection Initiative that is designed to serve as a secure end node. It can run on almost any Intel-based computer (PC or Mac). LPS boots only in RAM, creating a pristine, non-persistent, end node. It is capable using Common Access Card (CAC) software for authentication into DoD networks. LPS-Public turns an untrusted system (such as a home computer) into a trusted network client. No trace of work activity (or malware) can be written to the local computer hard drive. As of September 2011 (version 1.2.5), the LPS public distribution includes a smart card-enabled Firefox browser supporting DoD’s CAC and Personal Identity Verification (PIV) cards, a PDF and text viewer, Java, a file browser, remote desktop software (Citrix, Microsoft or VMware View), an SSH client, the public edition of Encryption Wizard and the ability to use USB flash drives. A Public Deluxe version is available that adds OpenOffice.org and Adobe Reader software
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
analisis yang obyektif, membantu rakyat indonesia agar bisa menentukan pilihan mereka pad 9 juli nanti!
Indonesians are not idiots
Looks like you are wrong, Elizabeth…
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Their right? From the barrel of a gun.. might is always right.
The TPP: Najib Razak’s Gordian Knot
Spot on… The writer took some stuff for breakfast before writing the article. Whatever that is, I would like some…
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
Landasan Negara kita jelas ; UUD 1945 & PANCASILA.
Perwujudan Demokrasi tergambar jelas pada Sila Ke-4 Pancasila & Pasal 28 UUD ’45.
Mari kita hayati bersama,
“Kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh khidmat kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan perwakilan”.
Patut diakui bahwa kita telah terseret jauh mengikuti “Liberalisasi” Asing.
Salahkah jika kita kembali ke UUD ’45 & PANCASILA sbg dasar negara…???
Sebagaimana jg diajarkan dlm Islam bgmna demokrasi itu.
Salam Indonesia Raya
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Sceptic: Indeed the 70k arrests does show that it was not all killing, but there was certainly plenty of shooting by the police going on. Thaksin never sought to investigate nor provide a proper accounting on what transpired….
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Prayuth was quick to put into practice his own silly xenophobic ideas about foreign workers. The mess that caused has surely undermined him. How many more such maggots can we expect to emerge from his brain before he is toppled?
The TPP: Najib Razak’s Gordian Knot
Hi there Monique,
You may want to read Barry Wain’s book, or the works of KS Nathan and Johan Saravanamuthu on US-Malaysia relations.
For a quick review, read this article.
http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2010/06/17/mahathirs-regional-legacy/
Prabowo Subianto: pilihlah aku, tetapi sekali saja
Sebenarnya sudah terlihat cara berpikir Prabowo akan seperti ORBA Soeharto, jd g perlu diperdebatkan ‘menantu pasti akan membela mertuanya’, It’s Indonesian Culture.
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
I’ve just read Meitzner & Aspinall’s new post. This post with the raw transcription needs to include a brief analysis of that sort, even if it is just two lines and a link to Meitzner & Aspinall’s new post.
In its current form, this post can be easily shared with Prabowo supporters as evidence that he is democratic and, ironically, that Westerners agree. They will not read any of the other posts that have repeatedly said that he isn’t democratic. (Even though they sing anti-Western rhetoric, they also crave Western approval in some ways. Some call it ‘internalized racism’. Postcolonial theory anyone? As you can see from one of the comments above, something as simple as Prabowo’s English skills can be a cause for respect.)
Don’t be fooled – Prabowo (still) wants to get rid of direct presidential elections
Prabowo is an enabler par excellence and does not evoke Soeharto’s Pancasila system. There is no question, Prabowo, would placate Islamic interests, both within, and outside of, Indonesia. Prabowo caters to the extremes
in Indonesian society and does not seek consensus. His abysmal human rights record
is one clear indication of that. Prabowo hardly has Soeharto’s mien, which was far more stable, unemotional, well-focused and productive, than Prabowo’s irrational and immature personality, hardly conducive to leadership of a nation of 250 million people. Prabowo’s “answer” was an exercise in classic dissembling and disingenuousness, all done, in an erratic and non-linear manner. Prabowo is not qualified to be President of Indonesia or even President of Disneyland.
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
I think a transcript like this needs to be accompanied with an analysis, otherwise it undoes much of the work that authors at New Mandala has done in exposing Prabowo’s actions and empty rhetoric. Prabowo has churned empty rhetoric after empty rhetoric throughout his campaign but he continues to rise in popularity. His rhetoric often contradicts his actions. But obviously many – even the highly educated ones who are familiar with the events of 1998 – are fooled by his empty rhetoric (there’s at least one example already on this thread) because he knows how to deliver it beautifully.
So I think it is dangerous to present this transcript in its raw form on a university funded forum (which adds to the credibility of things posted) like this given the close race. (And we can’t expect the majority of readers to read the comment thread that does include some analysis.)
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
Do not underestimate the idiocy of the Thai generals and the elites. They are smart but in a crooked way.
Seven questions for Thailand’s military
I read the junta said they have the right to issue a new constitution without vote or referendum. Made me wonder where did they get the right. Thai military people are out of touch with the world. Their barracks, tanks, and guns are the world.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
This might be a good product for our friends in Thailand
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/icloak/icloak-tm-stik-easy-powerful-online-privacy-for-yo