I would appreciate President Thein Sein’s domestic and regional goals if and when he managed to achieve them. But a further role of the military in Myanmar’s politics (even if unavoidable) would definitely be a source of concern, as it could turn the country into an Egyptian-style false or very limited democracy, and maybe also an economic oligarchy, where development and equality are not the real priority of the establishment.
As far as the concepts of “unity” and “community” among ASEAN countries are concerned, I (as a European and a citizen of the world) will warmly welcome them, provided that they are not a tool for an enhanced and bitter rivalry with China.
Thaksin now in Singapore, but refusing to talk with Suthep. Army Chief Prayuth Chan-ocha just ordered all military units to investigate illegal logging !! Top brass, including Prayuth gathering recently at a function presided over by Crown Prince Vijaralongkorn. Something very interesting is going on. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/409719/suthep-not-on-thaksin-list-of-people-to-talk-to
From my experience, I believe Thais are generally not underpaid when competing for jobs in an open market against locals.
From my experience, Thais (students in particular) are usually underpaid when working for Thai employers. Often this happens at the start of their time in Australia where they find it difficult (or haven’t developed the confidence yet) to compete for jobs against locals. Thai employers take advantage of their lack of opportunities initially.
I agree George. I certainly would prefer another way but election after election the ringmasters behind Suthep have orchestrated judicial and military coups which have overthrown elected governments. It seems they won’t stop until someone stops them. The people of North and north east thailand have had enough. To see Suthep esconsed now in parliament house despite a raft of charges is outrageous. When people lose faith in justice and the courts history shows they pursue other options.
Of the considerable amount of academic work on Ashokan edicts I have only read a couple dozen book chapters, articles and a few books, but all those works take the quoted inscription above as well as the pillars at Buddhist sites and their inscriptions etc as authentic. The signals to Ashoka’s Buddhism, as already stated in my post: pillars, pilgrimages, other inscriptions, which are taken as a whole, not in isolation in assessing Ashoka’s adherence to Buddhism. There is, as already stated, debate on whether Ashokan dhamma is Buddhist or not.
The sutta “Advice to Rahula at Ambalatthika” (M 61) and likewise the Maharahulaovada-sutta (M 62) say nothing about this Rahula, in fact it only has the name, not a thing about the person. The commentaries do declare this Rahula as the Buddha’s son, but the suttas do not. The story of a Rahula as the son of the Buddha may well be a later insertion, how late?
In the Tipitaka the Buddha has a name “Gotama”. The Buddha calls himself “Tathagata”. People usually address him as Bhagavant.
Mazard is correct in saying that Thailand once claimed all of Laos and Cambodia, but I doubt if the myth of Suvaс╣Зс╣Зabh┼лmi / Suvarnabhumi had anything to do with it. Most historians concur that the ancient Hindus gave the name Suvarnnadvipa or Suvarnnabhumi to Southeast Asia. Whether this referred to a specific region of S.E. Asia, such as the East Indies, the Malay Peninsula, Central Thailand, or Funan, is disputed. It was probably a generic toponym referring to the lands to the east beyond India proper, which Indian missionaries, traders and adventurers had been coming to settle ever since before the Common Era, and leaving their legacy in the Indianized states of S.E. Asia. It would have been the height of hubris for the Thais to claim that Thailand alone was Suvarnabhumi, or even the heirs of Suvarnabhumi, and thereby claim sovereignty over Laos and Cambodia on these grounds.
Siam’s claim to Laos and Cambodia rested on those states being vassals of the Siamese kings, at a time when vassalage meant recognizing the Siamese king as overlord and sending annual tribute to the royal court, along with a few royal hostages. When the British and French came into conflict with Siam, they related to this system well, and duly recognized Siam’s overlordship of the northern Malay states, Laos, and Cambodia. This, however, did not stop them employing one subterfuge or another to wrest these states away from Siam, in practical terms replacing one overlord with another. Siam in its hour of weakness accepted this fait accompli; after all, in Cambodia the Thais had to contest the Vietnamese, and didn’t always have it their way. So up to World War II, Siam/Thailand was an unwilling participant in “The Great Game” played by the British and French in mainland S.E. Asia. When the tables turned, as it did when France fell to Hiter’s Germany, the Thais tried to “recover” Laos and Cambodia, as well as the Malay states and Shan State. The rest is history.
No Thai today would want Cambodia as a “province” of Thailand; Laos and Shan State might be a different matter, being populated by ethnic Thais. However, realpolitik being what it is, it’s not going to happen any time soon.
Aniceto Mau Doben, not Prabowo, shot Lobato, preempting what some in Falintil were plotting. Nor is there any good evidence Prabowo was involved in Kraras. Many of those who fought alongside Prabowo remain influential in E.Timor and tied by the bond of mutual loyalty. Gusmao, aware that he and Falintil had also perpetrated terrible crimes, has been consistent in his desire to wipe the slate clean, on condition that his own reputation isn’t to be sullied. Those who agreed to his terms have done well, those who haven’t, well look at the recent burning of civilians’ homes in Laga. The authors of this shallow post will need to dig a lot deeper if they wish to understand E.Timor’s history wars. By the way, one of Prabowo’s greatest supporters, a member of his Gerindra Bekasi Board, is Julius Naisama. Some Readers may remember the name in connection with the Atambua UNHCR murders, for which he did jail time. Does this make Prabowo responsible for that crime too? No more than Kraras. Sadly, most crimes were perpetrated upon E.Timorese by other E.Timorese. They know this, which is why they really couldn’t care less what Prabowo does.
I lived in Indonesia for four years. It was like living in early 1930’s Germany before the Nazi’s actually took complete control.
What I saw of Islam, what I studied about it, what I witnessed confirmed in my mind that Islam (to use SBY’s own word)is a ‘deviant’ form of Judaism and an abberant form of cobbled-together/mish mash primative and heretical christian sects – such as arianism and gnosticism, that existed in arabia – cut off from mainstream judaism and orthodox christianity.
Islam’s problems are found within Islam itself – problems which Muslims simply will not acknowledge or confront.
Muslims need to examime their own claims in the light of Reason. But they wont – since the use of Reason has been banned ( with violence) in Islam since the 12th century. And that ban was re-inforced by the Indonesian MUI a few years ago.
That’s the nub of the problem. Islam is a totalitarian, supremistist ideology based on very shaky historical and theological foundations that refuses to examine itelf and its claims in the light of Reason.
And where Reason is suppressed you will always have violence.
As for SBY’s record in this matter? It is the same as his record in all aspects of his Presidency. His ‘achievements’ were for export only – fed by a spin doctor machine that has tried to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes – while SBY got on doing with what SBY wanted to do all along. Look after his family’s interests.
I can’t wait for the real account of his presidency to be written.
For all the hype, no one seems to be mentioning two thinsg.
1. The deplorable lack of qualifications, experience, statescraft of ALL the candidates.
2. The absence, at present/up ’til now, of the Democrats from the process. ARE they going to field a candidate at this late stage? Either way, whether they do or whether they don’t, they have made themselves a laughing stock.
Whoever wins this election, it will be the case of (Jokowi) – the best of a mediocre lot and a risk – with Kalla and Megawati’s daughter undermining him or (Prabowo) – the worst of a bad lot.
Absolutely nonsense comparison – Clinton’s impeachment was heard before two fully elected houses, with the Senate rejecting the impeachment.
The entire thing underwent thorough democratic oversight in comparison to Yingluck’s which went before 9 unelected judges from a court imposed by a military junta.
Fast forward 2014. Amazing how the generals have triumphed over all the Westerners who pressed for sanctions, and all the Burmese who sat in their comfortable homes in the West, pressing for sanctions against their longsuffering Burmese who never left to go anywhere because they never had British husbands or wives. Amazing how empty-headed Aung San Suu Kyi has turned out now she has her liberty. All she can manage in her many speeches are human rights and rule of law. Nothing of substance BUT EMPTY platitudes. What mediocrity. She is also known to be arrogant and dictatorial in her own party, having sacked people who disagree with her. … Burma, you don’t need this shallow woman. You deserve a homegrown leader, free from British influence.
Well I followed the link to the original article and like this article, it skirts around the issue of whether former PM Yingluck Shinawatra (yes I know) was proven guilty of the corrupt practice beyond reasonable doubt. IMO the general public in Thailand has very little doubt that Ms was guilty as charged because they understand very well that’s how things work here in Thailand – they only have to look back to the dodgy dealings of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to have that view reinforced. Of course I expect the usual knee-jerk reaction from the Shinawatra apologists that habitually infest NM unless they are too busy defending the rice scheme or the scheming Shinawatra proxy, former PM Samak.
My considered opinion is that even the various intelligent arguments put forward by Thaksin supporters are based on the philosophical under-pining that ‘the end justifies the means’ which is essentially an unproven proposition which should be open both to conjecture and constructive comment, not shouted down by a self-righteous majority. But of course that’s the majoritarian arrogance of power which typifies Thaksinism right there.
Robert, you seem to have a salient point in stating that it would take a revolution to sort out Thailand once and for all.But revolutions are not always a commendable solution since it is always the poorest and most vulnerable in society who suffer the most, whereas the culprits get away with murder and much more.
On the otherhand there have been cases in modern history of a revolution that has benefited the poor and underclass.
In Thailand only when the wealthy elite start feeling the pinch really badly will they start to seriously negotiate. How about a world-wide travel ban on the country and other sanctions, but then again, it is the weakest part of society that will suffer the most.
When you mentioned that Fadli an Kivlan’s statements said that Prabowo “was simply placed in a higher moral category… that Wiranto masterminded the kidnappings”, I’d like to ask what source you used, and where I could access this.
“Standing on their own two feet is what the military has been doing with the people crushed under their boots for the last half century, with a little help from their friends.” One of the best sentences ever on New Mandala Moe Aung.
Burma is unlike any other lands mainly because of flashes of independent thinking by common people, some of whom are incredibly able.
As we have seen in Ma Aye Net and Ma Thwe Thwe Win at Latpadaung. At the same time the leading lights like Aung San Suu Kyi and Zarganar call them ignorant trouble makers simply because they do not simply curl up and die fertilizing the now Chinese owned land. That later tyrant and mass murderer Aung Zay Ya was once a simple village headman. Who know how many of these around?
Yet Burma of now is truly fertile ground for doomsayers.
NOT because the Chinese want to rape it. NOT because “The West” (including Japan, Korean and Taiwan) or their own handler Rothschilds or any other named anonymous and anomalous group are drooling for their latest conquest. NOT even because opinion makers people have put their precious false faith in are thoroughly co-opted by the second group’s decades long indoctrination.
But simply because of people’s own ignorance. Because of their own poisonous greed and false pride.
And the traditional moral compass is lost way back!
Unless they realize their own stupidity soon enough, Cambodia would soon look like Switzerland compared to Burma.
Like in its domestic sphere expect Burma to be strong on rhetoric and weak on delivery. If these generals had ever put their money where their mouth is this nation wouldn’t have been in such dire straits for so long in the first place.
Thein Sein going on a begging round was common knowledge. Standing on their own two feet is what the military has been doing with the people crushed under their boots for the last half century, with a little help from their friends.
Now that their new best friends from the West are welcoming them to the New World Order they don’t even need to be afraid of a certain lady’s aspirations to the highest office in the land anymore. The West is won, and strategies to sideline the opposition underway as ‘defenders of race and religion’.
Come 2015 election year they will have a plan B up their sleeve too in case the swinish multitudes misbehave egged on by the Lady or others.
ASEAN is merely a sideshow for the benefit of the ‘international community’ feeling pretty charitable in their assessment of the opening market place which fundamentally is what Burma means to them. You can’t buck the market said another ‘great lady’.
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Myanmar’s ASEAN challenges
I would appreciate President Thein Sein’s domestic and regional goals if and when he managed to achieve them. But a further role of the military in Myanmar’s politics (even if unavoidable) would definitely be a source of concern, as it could turn the country into an Egyptian-style false or very limited democracy, and maybe also an economic oligarchy, where development and equality are not the real priority of the establishment.
As far as the concepts of “unity” and “community” among ASEAN countries are concerned, I (as a European and a citizen of the world) will warmly welcome them, provided that they are not a tool for an enhanced and bitter rivalry with China.
A coup by any other name…
Thaksin now in Singapore, but refusing to talk with Suthep. Army Chief Prayuth Chan-ocha just ordered all military units to investigate illegal logging !! Top brass, including Prayuth gathering recently at a function presided over by Crown Prince Vijaralongkorn. Something very interesting is going on. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/409719/suthep-not-on-thaksin-list-of-people-to-talk-to
THAINEY: Lives of the Thais in Sydney
From my experience, I believe Thais are generally not underpaid when competing for jobs in an open market against locals.
From my experience, Thais (students in particular) are usually underpaid when working for Thai employers. Often this happens at the start of their time in Australia where they find it difficult (or haven’t developed the confidence yet) to compete for jobs against locals. Thai employers take advantage of their lack of opportunities initially.
A coup by any other name…
I agree George. I certainly would prefer another way but election after election the ringmasters behind Suthep have orchestrated judicial and military coups which have overthrown elected governments. It seems they won’t stop until someone stops them. The people of North and north east thailand have had enough. To see Suthep esconsed now in parliament house despite a raft of charges is outrageous. When people lose faith in justice and the courts history shows they pursue other options.
Cambodia is not a province of Thailand
Of the considerable amount of academic work on Ashokan edicts I have only read a couple dozen book chapters, articles and a few books, but all those works take the quoted inscription above as well as the pillars at Buddhist sites and their inscriptions etc as authentic. The signals to Ashoka’s Buddhism, as already stated in my post: pillars, pilgrimages, other inscriptions, which are taken as a whole, not in isolation in assessing Ashoka’s adherence to Buddhism. There is, as already stated, debate on whether Ashokan dhamma is Buddhist or not.
The sutta “Advice to Rahula at Ambalatthika” (M 61) and likewise the Maharahulaovada-sutta (M 62) say nothing about this Rahula, in fact it only has the name, not a thing about the person. The commentaries do declare this Rahula as the Buddha’s son, but the suttas do not. The story of a Rahula as the son of the Buddha may well be a later insertion, how late?
In the Tipitaka the Buddha has a name “Gotama”. The Buddha calls himself “Tathagata”. People usually address him as Bhagavant.
Cambodia is not a province of Thailand
Mazard is correct in saying that Thailand once claimed all of Laos and Cambodia, but I doubt if the myth of Suvaс╣Зс╣Зabh┼лmi / Suvarnabhumi had anything to do with it. Most historians concur that the ancient Hindus gave the name Suvarnnadvipa or Suvarnnabhumi to Southeast Asia. Whether this referred to a specific region of S.E. Asia, such as the East Indies, the Malay Peninsula, Central Thailand, or Funan, is disputed. It was probably a generic toponym referring to the lands to the east beyond India proper, which Indian missionaries, traders and adventurers had been coming to settle ever since before the Common Era, and leaving their legacy in the Indianized states of S.E. Asia. It would have been the height of hubris for the Thais to claim that Thailand alone was Suvarnabhumi, or even the heirs of Suvarnabhumi, and thereby claim sovereignty over Laos and Cambodia on these grounds.
Siam’s claim to Laos and Cambodia rested on those states being vassals of the Siamese kings, at a time when vassalage meant recognizing the Siamese king as overlord and sending annual tribute to the royal court, along with a few royal hostages. When the British and French came into conflict with Siam, they related to this system well, and duly recognized Siam’s overlordship of the northern Malay states, Laos, and Cambodia. This, however, did not stop them employing one subterfuge or another to wrest these states away from Siam, in practical terms replacing one overlord with another. Siam in its hour of weakness accepted this fait accompli; after all, in Cambodia the Thais had to contest the Vietnamese, and didn’t always have it their way. So up to World War II, Siam/Thailand was an unwilling participant in “The Great Game” played by the British and French in mainland S.E. Asia. When the tables turned, as it did when France fell to Hiter’s Germany, the Thais tried to “recover” Laos and Cambodia, as well as the Malay states and Shan State. The rest is history.
No Thai today would want Cambodia as a “province” of Thailand; Laos and Shan State might be a different matter, being populated by ethnic Thais. However, realpolitik being what it is, it’s not going to happen any time soon.
Timor’s silence
Aniceto Mau Doben, not Prabowo, shot Lobato, preempting what some in Falintil were plotting. Nor is there any good evidence Prabowo was involved in Kraras. Many of those who fought alongside Prabowo remain influential in E.Timor and tied by the bond of mutual loyalty. Gusmao, aware that he and Falintil had also perpetrated terrible crimes, has been consistent in his desire to wipe the slate clean, on condition that his own reputation isn’t to be sullied. Those who agreed to his terms have done well, those who haven’t, well look at the recent burning of civilians’ homes in Laga. The authors of this shallow post will need to dig a lot deeper if they wish to understand E.Timor’s history wars. By the way, one of Prabowo’s greatest supporters, a member of his Gerindra Bekasi Board, is Julius Naisama. Some Readers may remember the name in connection with the Atambua UNHCR murders, for which he did jail time. Does this make Prabowo responsible for that crime too? No more than Kraras. Sadly, most crimes were perpetrated upon E.Timorese by other E.Timorese. They know this, which is why they really couldn’t care less what Prabowo does.
Undoing Yudhoyono’s Sectarian Legacy
I lived in Indonesia for four years. It was like living in early 1930’s Germany before the Nazi’s actually took complete control.
What I saw of Islam, what I studied about it, what I witnessed confirmed in my mind that Islam (to use SBY’s own word)is a ‘deviant’ form of Judaism and an abberant form of cobbled-together/mish mash primative and heretical christian sects – such as arianism and gnosticism, that existed in arabia – cut off from mainstream judaism and orthodox christianity.
Islam’s problems are found within Islam itself – problems which Muslims simply will not acknowledge or confront.
Muslims need to examime their own claims in the light of Reason. But they wont – since the use of Reason has been banned ( with violence) in Islam since the 12th century. And that ban was re-inforced by the Indonesian MUI a few years ago.
That’s the nub of the problem. Islam is a totalitarian, supremistist ideology based on very shaky historical and theological foundations that refuses to examine itelf and its claims in the light of Reason.
And where Reason is suppressed you will always have violence.
As for SBY’s record in this matter? It is the same as his record in all aspects of his Presidency. His ‘achievements’ were for export only – fed by a spin doctor machine that has tried to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes – while SBY got on doing with what SBY wanted to do all along. Look after his family’s interests.
I can’t wait for the real account of his presidency to be written.
Polling: the race tightens
For all the hype, no one seems to be mentioning two thinsg.
1. The deplorable lack of qualifications, experience, statescraft of ALL the candidates.
2. The absence, at present/up ’til now, of the Democrats from the process. ARE they going to field a candidate at this late stage? Either way, whether they do or whether they don’t, they have made themselves a laughing stock.
Whoever wins this election, it will be the case of (Jokowi) – the best of a mediocre lot and a risk – with Kalla and Megawati’s daughter undermining him or (Prabowo) – the worst of a bad lot.
Polling: the race tightens
Excellent summary and analysis! Very enjoyable read – esp. the J&W reference.
A coup by any other name…
Absolutely nonsense comparison – Clinton’s impeachment was heard before two fully elected houses, with the Senate rejecting the impeachment.
The entire thing underwent thorough democratic oversight in comparison to Yingluck’s which went before 9 unelected judges from a court imposed by a military junta.
Another dumb false equivalence.
Review of A Civilized Woman
I am still reading this wonderful book. It’s a pleasure to read as Dr.Kepner is a superb writer and translator who makes history come to life.
Interview with Burma’s Ma Thanegi
Fast forward 2014. Amazing how the generals have triumphed over all the Westerners who pressed for sanctions, and all the Burmese who sat in their comfortable homes in the West, pressing for sanctions against their longsuffering Burmese who never left to go anywhere because they never had British husbands or wives. Amazing how empty-headed Aung San Suu Kyi has turned out now she has her liberty. All she can manage in her many speeches are human rights and rule of law. Nothing of substance BUT EMPTY platitudes. What mediocrity. She is also known to be arrogant and dictatorial in her own party, having sacked people who disagree with her. … Burma, you don’t need this shallow woman. You deserve a homegrown leader, free from British influence.
A coup by any other name…
Well I followed the link to the original article and like this article, it skirts around the issue of whether former PM Yingluck Shinawatra (yes I know) was proven guilty of the corrupt practice beyond reasonable doubt. IMO the general public in Thailand has very little doubt that Ms was guilty as charged because they understand very well that’s how things work here in Thailand – they only have to look back to the dodgy dealings of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to have that view reinforced. Of course I expect the usual knee-jerk reaction from the Shinawatra apologists that habitually infest NM unless they are too busy defending the rice scheme or the scheming Shinawatra proxy, former PM Samak.
My considered opinion is that even the various intelligent arguments put forward by Thaksin supporters are based on the philosophical under-pining that ‘the end justifies the means’ which is essentially an unproven proposition which should be open both to conjecture and constructive comment, not shouted down by a self-righteous majority. But of course that’s the majoritarian arrogance of power which typifies Thaksinism right there.
A coup by any other name…
It’s hard to argue with such a clumsy comment, that’s for sure.
A coup by any other name…
Robert, you seem to have a salient point in stating that it would take a revolution to sort out Thailand once and for all.But revolutions are not always a commendable solution since it is always the poorest and most vulnerable in society who suffer the most, whereas the culprits get away with murder and much more.
On the otherhand there have been cases in modern history of a revolution that has benefited the poor and underclass.
In Thailand only when the wealthy elite start feeling the pinch really badly will they start to seriously negotiate. How about a world-wide travel ban on the country and other sanctions, but then again, it is the weakest part of society that will suffer the most.
Wither Human Rights?
Hi!
Great article.
When you mentioned that Fadli an Kivlan’s statements said that Prabowo “was simply placed in a higher moral category… that Wiranto masterminded the kidnappings”, I’d like to ask what source you used, and where I could access this.
Thanks.
Myanmar’s ASEAN challenges
“Standing on their own two feet is what the military has been doing with the people crushed under their boots for the last half century, with a little help from their friends.” One of the best sentences ever on New Mandala Moe Aung.
Myanmar’s unreliable narrators
Excellent points U Moe Aung.
Burma is unlike any other lands mainly because of flashes of independent thinking by common people, some of whom are incredibly able.
As we have seen in Ma Aye Net and Ma Thwe Thwe Win at Latpadaung. At the same time the leading lights like Aung San Suu Kyi and Zarganar call them ignorant trouble makers simply because they do not simply curl up and die fertilizing the now Chinese owned land. That later tyrant and mass murderer Aung Zay Ya was once a simple village headman. Who know how many of these around?
Yet Burma of now is truly fertile ground for doomsayers.
NOT because the Chinese want to rape it. NOT because “The West” (including Japan, Korean and Taiwan) or their own handler Rothschilds or any other named anonymous and anomalous group are drooling for their latest conquest. NOT even because opinion makers people have put their precious false faith in are thoroughly co-opted by the second group’s decades long indoctrination.
But simply because of people’s own ignorance. Because of their own poisonous greed and false pride.
And the traditional moral compass is lost way back!
Unless they realize their own stupidity soon enough, Cambodia would soon look like Switzerland compared to Burma.
Myanmar’s ASEAN challenges
Like in its domestic sphere expect Burma to be strong on rhetoric and weak on delivery. If these generals had ever put their money where their mouth is this nation wouldn’t have been in such dire straits for so long in the first place.
Thein Sein going on a begging round was common knowledge. Standing on their own two feet is what the military has been doing with the people crushed under their boots for the last half century, with a little help from their friends.
Now that their new best friends from the West are welcoming them to the New World Order they don’t even need to be afraid of a certain lady’s aspirations to the highest office in the land anymore. The West is won, and strategies to sideline the opposition underway as ‘defenders of race and religion’.
Come 2015 election year they will have a plan B up their sleeve too in case the swinish multitudes misbehave egged on by the Lady or others.
ASEAN is merely a sideshow for the benefit of the ‘international community’ feeling pretty charitable in their assessment of the opening market place which fundamentally is what Burma means to them. You can’t buck the market said another ‘great lady’.