Never mind, Rohin, but remember the words of the late lamented British radical, Tony Benn: “How does progress occur? To begin with, if you come up with a radical idea it’s ignored. Then if you go on, you’re told it’s unrealistic. Then if you go on after that, you’re mad. Then if you go on saying it, you’re dangerous. Then there’s a pause and you can’t find anyone at the top who doesn’t claim to have been in favour of it in the first place.” !
Its not counted in the sense that it does not have the power to affect the results of an election, except in special circumstances, usually if a candidate is running unopposed.
And even in these circumstances on the third try the ‘i do not wish to vote’ option is then ignored, even if it gets more votes than the unopposed ‘winner’ of the election.
It is used as a way for voters to abstain from voting, and if used widely will only lead to confusion and uncertainty on its implications.
See section 88 of the organic act the election of Mps.
The ”non-vote’ option and an option to withhold consent are not in any way equivalent.
The Nation is sometimes lambasted on New Mandala, by some commentators, as being a “Royalist rag”. But here’s a good analysis, insight, and overall summary of the current political situation. A revealing revelation for the uninitiated. And for the more sophisticated : an interesting exercise in how to discuss difficult issues, while cleverly – and somewhat, sadly and amusingly – skirting legal difficulties : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thai-politics-for-dummies-30230058.html
I agree too, Rohin. But I believe the elites are so strong and the feudalistic attitude so prominent (inbred?) that it will take time. You’re right that moving towards a democracy acceptable to Thais and Thai culture – if I may paraphrase you – is very positive.
This debate on Mandala could be very fruitful if it weren’t for the ususl suspects abusing the voting system, shooting the messenger rather than engaging in constructive and meaningful debate. Expressing one’s opinions is not something NW likes very much.
Oh yeah, Jokowi is the “Real Life of the “Party” and I can hardly wait for fresh, but not novel, hot air to be blown from within the
Istana Merdeka (or wherever, should Indonesia decide to move the President’s complex).
“Shtick” is right, as is ‘Mishigas’, an apt
description of Jokowi’s rhetorical flourishes.
Rusdi’s money would even be better spent improving the quality of life for poor Indonesians, living in squalid conditions,
in places like South Jakarta, where housing rearrangement has proven to be a very poor remedy indeed.
I don’t see any twilight or decline of the power of the elite. They still control all the powerful organisations and important resources. Certainly, their creativity and understanding is rather limited as the nice comment by Songkran in the Bangkok Post indicates, but do they have to be creative? So far, all works quite well for them, doesn’t it? Are their laws that they are under? Do they have to pay taxes? Don’t the majority of the people still shoiw respect and crawl on the floor?
One should not forget that the elite is deeply entreched, their ideology is still very powerful and widely internalized, and they control the required resources by they resources of force, culture or social status.
Currently pretty much all democracies run on the lines of lead, follow, or get out of the way, and changes to this model are viewed with suspicion and derided.
Average fresh graduate pay US$470
Average double storey terrace house in Klang Valley(dwelling of choice of middle class) US$60,000/- (127.5 mths pay)
Average 1.5 ltr car – US$3500 (7.5 mths pay)
2013
Average fresh graduate pay US$750
Average double storey terrace house in Klang Valley – US$300,000/- (400 mths pay)
Average 1.5 ltr car – US$24200/- (32 mths pay)
How is the economy doing? It does not depend on who you ask, it depends on how you measure. For me, it is purchasing power parity. This reflects on your quality of live and standard of living!
The usual candidates abusing the Mandala voting system rather than making constructive comments. I had thought RV’s article would have provoked some sensible debate but I was being over optimistic. Too much comment against the “messengers” rather than against the message. NM needs to allow free speech and opinion and get rid of those who effectively flame posters.
Such financial appendages are hardly rare. Liem Sioe Liong, did very well for himself, as a Suharto/Golkar appendage. Robert Kuok, did equally well as a Mahathir/UMNO appendage in Malaysia, and in fact, the Malaysian Chinese Association (MCA) is a not-so-successful example of a whole party being an appendage of a sitting Government (UMNO-BN) in Malaysia. Such parasitic (rarely symbiotic) relationships abound in Southeast Asia, though not all that benefit from such parasitism, are as wealthy as Liem or Kuok.
For the vast majority of Malays, who happen to live in rural or semi-rural kampungs, the economy has not grown all that much, and consequently, they have seen little direct benefit from that growth. Likewise, any expansion and increased profits from petrol and natural gas, impact Putrajaya far more
than the Malaysian States (and their coastal shelves) from which, petrol and natural gas are obtained, as a disproportionate share of the profits from such resources are taken by the Government in Putrajaya, leaving the regions from which such natural resource are obtained, insufficiently monetarily rewarded for their local resources. The rapid decline in primary forest in Sarawak, with the resultant exportation of raw hardwood and finished products, on the other hand, has all but rewarded the local State Government in Sarawak, leaving its Chief Minister, Datuk Taib Mahmud, handsomely rewarded for his state’s timber products.
It is not that Malaysia’ economy has not grown, or performed as anticipated, as much as, it is that Malaysia’s economy does not advantage all participants to the same degree by any means, nor do all benefits that accrue from various sectors of the Malaysian economy, reach most Malaysian citizens either proportionately or even fairly. Thus, quantitative measures of Malaysia’s economic growth does not accurately reflect the overall quality of economic and social life of the vast majority of Malaysia’s citizens as that economic growth is unevenly distributed and tends to exacerbate, rather than narrow, the income divisions and disparities between the wealthy top tiers and poorer bottom tiers of Malaysia’s citizens.
Hi Doug, its not the same. It is usually not counted, but has an effect if there is only one candidate standing on the ballot and it receives 20% of the vote.
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Thailand’s fairest reform?
Never mind, Rohin, but remember the words of the late lamented British radical, Tony Benn: “How does progress occur? To begin with, if you come up with a radical idea it’s ignored. Then if you go on, you’re told it’s unrealistic. Then if you go on after that, you’re mad. Then if you go on saying it, you’re dangerous. Then there’s a pause and you can’t find anyone at the top who doesn’t claim to have been in favour of it in the first place.” !
Thailand’s fairest reform?
Its not counted in the sense that it does not have the power to affect the results of an election, except in special circumstances, usually if a candidate is running unopposed.
And even in these circumstances on the third try the ‘i do not wish to vote’ option is then ignored, even if it gets more votes than the unopposed ‘winner’ of the election.
It is used as a way for voters to abstain from voting, and if used widely will only lead to confusion and uncertainty on its implications.
See section 88 of the organic act the election of Mps.
The ”non-vote’ option and an option to withhold consent are not in any way equivalent.
Network monarchy’s twilight
The Nation is sometimes lambasted on New Mandala, by some commentators, as being a “Royalist rag”. But here’s a good analysis, insight, and overall summary of the current political situation. A revealing revelation for the uninitiated. And for the more sophisticated : an interesting exercise in how to discuss difficult issues, while cleverly – and somewhat, sadly and amusingly – skirting legal difficulties : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thai-politics-for-dummies-30230058.html
Thailand’s fairest reform?
I agree too, Rohin. But I believe the elites are so strong and the feudalistic attitude so prominent (inbred?) that it will take time. You’re right that moving towards a democracy acceptable to Thais and Thai culture – if I may paraphrase you – is very positive.
This debate on Mandala could be very fruitful if it weren’t for the ususl suspects abusing the voting system, shooting the messenger rather than engaging in constructive and meaningful debate. Expressing one’s opinions is not something NW likes very much.
Jokowi the party man
Oh yeah, Jokowi is the “Real Life of the “Party” and I can hardly wait for fresh, but not novel, hot air to be blown from within the
Istana Merdeka (or wherever, should Indonesia decide to move the President’s complex).
“Shtick” is right, as is ‘Mishigas’, an apt
description of Jokowi’s rhetorical flourishes.
The Lion of PKB: Rusdi Kirana
Sidney,
Rusdi’s money would even be better spent improving the quality of life for poor Indonesians, living in squalid conditions,
in places like South Jakarta, where housing rearrangement has proven to be a very poor remedy indeed.
Akanat “six degrees” Promphan
I won’t say that Yingluck is “fluent” in English, but at least she manages to understand the question and give a short answer to interview partners.
But Suthep never even listens to anything asked in English and lets Akanat do the translation.
Network monarchy’s twilight
I don’t see any twilight or decline of the power of the elite. They still control all the powerful organisations and important resources. Certainly, their creativity and understanding is rather limited as the nice comment by Songkran in the Bangkok Post indicates, but do they have to be creative? So far, all works quite well for them, doesn’t it? Are their laws that they are under? Do they have to pay taxes? Don’t the majority of the people still shoiw respect and crawl on the floor?
One should not forget that the elite is deeply entreched, their ideology is still very powerful and widely internalized, and they control the required resources by they resources of force, culture or social status.
Thailand’s fairest reform?
There is always a resistance to new ideas.
Currently pretty much all democracies run on the lines of lead, follow, or get out of the way, and changes to this model are viewed with suspicion and derided.
Thailand’s fairest reform?
It is not counted?
Network monarchy’s twilight
Shall I presume, Arthurson, that you deliberately created or is creating the fiction of ‘the Crown Prince and Thaksin together on a vengeance path’?
Why does this fiction of ‘the Crown Prince and Thaksin and the Red Shirts togetherness’ ready for vengeance, civil war, etc.?
Thailand’s fairest reform?
I disagree with you, you are being very dismissive without fully understanding how radical this reform actually is.
NOTA is exactly what is needed to turn the fuedalistic nature of Thai society on its head.
In a democracy power is supposed to reside with the electorate, all too often it does not; it resides with elite groups.
Once you grasp that when power to withhold consent is given to the electorate then they are now the most powerful section of society.
This is truly radical change with the electorate in charge of the direction of change and the change is achieved through the ballot box.
It sets up a very robust system of democracy that will be very difficult to subvert by any type of elites.
What more can you ask for?
The Lion of PKB: Rusdi Kirana
Rusdi’s money would be better used improving the safety record of Lion Air.
The Lion of PKB: Rusdi Kirana
[…] Read original article here: http://www.newmandala.org/2014/03/31/the-lion-of-pkb-rusdi-kirana/?utm_source=rss&… […]
Malaysia – a multigear, multiengine economy
Middle income trap:
1981
Average fresh graduate pay US$470
Average double storey terrace house in Klang Valley(dwelling of choice of middle class) US$60,000/- (127.5 mths pay)
Average 1.5 ltr car – US$3500 (7.5 mths pay)
2013
Average fresh graduate pay US$750
Average double storey terrace house in Klang Valley – US$300,000/- (400 mths pay)
Average 1.5 ltr car – US$24200/- (32 mths pay)
How is the economy doing? It does not depend on who you ask, it depends on how you measure. For me, it is purchasing power parity. This reflects on your quality of live and standard of living!
Thailand’s fairest reform?
The usual candidates abusing the Mandala voting system rather than making constructive comments. I had thought RV’s article would have provoked some sensible debate but I was being over optimistic. Too much comment against the “messengers” rather than against the message. NM needs to allow free speech and opinion and get rid of those who effectively flame posters.
The Lion of PKB: Rusdi Kirana
Such financial appendages are hardly rare. Liem Sioe Liong, did very well for himself, as a Suharto/Golkar appendage. Robert Kuok, did equally well as a Mahathir/UMNO appendage in Malaysia, and in fact, the Malaysian Chinese Association (MCA) is a not-so-successful example of a whole party being an appendage of a sitting Government (UMNO-BN) in Malaysia. Such parasitic (rarely symbiotic) relationships abound in Southeast Asia, though not all that benefit from such parasitism, are as wealthy as Liem or Kuok.
Malaysia – a multigear, multiengine economy
For the vast majority of Malays, who happen to live in rural or semi-rural kampungs, the economy has not grown all that much, and consequently, they have seen little direct benefit from that growth. Likewise, any expansion and increased profits from petrol and natural gas, impact Putrajaya far more
than the Malaysian States (and their coastal shelves) from which, petrol and natural gas are obtained, as a disproportionate share of the profits from such resources are taken by the Government in Putrajaya, leaving the regions from which such natural resource are obtained, insufficiently monetarily rewarded for their local resources. The rapid decline in primary forest in Sarawak, with the resultant exportation of raw hardwood and finished products, on the other hand, has all but rewarded the local State Government in Sarawak, leaving its Chief Minister, Datuk Taib Mahmud, handsomely rewarded for his state’s timber products.
It is not that Malaysia’ economy has not grown, or performed as anticipated, as much as, it is that Malaysia’s economy does not advantage all participants to the same degree by any means, nor do all benefits that accrue from various sectors of the Malaysian economy, reach most Malaysian citizens either proportionately or even fairly. Thus, quantitative measures of Malaysia’s economic growth does not accurately reflect the overall quality of economic and social life of the vast majority of Malaysia’s citizens as that economic growth is unevenly distributed and tends to exacerbate, rather than narrow, the income divisions and disparities between the wealthy top tiers and poorer bottom tiers of Malaysia’s citizens.
Thailand’s fairest reform?
Thanks for the reply. I am glad you found it interesting
Thailand’s fairest reform?
Hi Doug, its not the same. It is usually not counted, but has an effect if there is only one candidate standing on the ballot and it receives 20% of the vote.