Years ago, the Lao People’s Revolutionary Party daily profiled Kong Le in a (partly) sympathetic article. But the conclusion was that KL was a front for the US and its Thai mercenary allies in Laos whose primary achievement was to prolong the war. Next to revolutionary ethnic minorities leaders like Sithon Kommadam, Faydang Lobliyao, Nhiavu Lobliyao, and Asang Laoli, the Lao opinion of Kong Le comes closer to “quisling” than “patriot”. But they do think of him more highly than Vang Pao who they totally despise.
Quite a lot of this is complete Tosh IMO (and quite a lot is also good analysis). You’re looking at it incorrectly. This is a ‘reverse power grab’. It’s mostly a critical mass of people (middle class and otherwise) who are sick of one family trying to monopolise power, and they want a radical end to it, because the Thaksin juggernaut just won’t go away. Sure there’s a power struggle behind the scenes, but it’s one of struggle for balance. Time and again the Establishment have sat back and let a victorious criminal take power and get on with running the country according to an election mandate, only to watch him and his cronies abuses it. Now that the middle class and others have risen up in disgust they are not letting up until a viable reform structure is put in place to clip Peua Thaksin’s wings. Then there can be an election which a proper political party can win (not a family fiefdom). Case in point, ask yourself where all the rice scheme money is, and how it might be used to affect the outcome of an election. Hardly healthy democracy. The middle class are informed enough to realise this. And they are not paid to protest for any particular power brokers. Big difference.
UMNO, Perkasa and Malay radicals have hijacked the Malaysian Constitution and converted into a mandate for ‘Ketuanan Melayu’ (Malay Supremacy), not realizing the irony as they criticise other nations (Israel, in particular) for supposed fascist tendencies, which Perkasa, and its backers in UMNO, transparently epitomise. One could, with little effort, transpose the speeches of Nazi ideologue Alfred Rosenberg or Joseph Goebbels, with any number of Perkasa utterances or those of voluble former Prime Miniser, Mahathir bin Mohamad. The parallels between Ibrahim Ali of Perkasa or Dr. Mahathir and Rosenberg or Goebbels is not mere hyperbole, it is in fact a very clear and (dangerous) transposition that threatens Malaysia’s multicultural society and makes a mockery of Prime Minister Najib’s superficial and ephemeral ‘Dialogue of the Moderates,’ a concept as oxymoronic, as the potential race war over a Malaysian vegetable (kangkung) is absurd.
Putting Chalerm in charge…….ahhh i can feel the champion of democracy and his goodwill to all, commitment to iclusiveness, respect for a real social contract, improved social equity, respect for rule of law. This remains a power grab by an old style strongman and his clique that started in 1999 and can only end in a continuing downward spiral for Thailand.
Hi Plan B,
In the event I attended, there was no discussion of violence against Buddhists, beyond one comment by the sayadaw regarding the soldier (police officer, I think, but he said ‘soldier’) missing in Rakhine State. I was careful to include that. I think this was because the event was not supposed to engage such issues – both the NGO workers’s comment and the sayadaw’s reference to the missing soldier were met with clear discomfort by the room.
To be honest, my reason for including a reference to the NGO worker was not to highlight the plight of Muslims in Rakhine State. I think that plight is indisputably serious, and also well publicized. Instead, I wanted to trigger reflection on how far apart the different world views are. The NGO worker was saying, ‘If you want people to live together, you must do this.’ The assumption seemed to be that everyone in the room wants people to live together, that everyone in the room agreed that Rakhine and Muslims *should* live together in Sittwe. There clearly is not such agreement anymore – and I think the international/NGO community has not done a good job of operating in light of this. Though obviously that is quite difficult for everyone, and especially outsiders.
I also think there needs to be much greater recognition of just how dire circumstances are for Rakhine people, not just Muslims. I was in a meeting today and someone said, loosely, the following, which I thought to be very convincing: “By most measures, many Buddhist people in Rakhine meet the thresholds needed for international assistance. Yet the Rohingya do as well, and even though the Rakhine situation is bad, the Rohingya may be worse. So if there is only $1, you can understand where it goes. Yet when aid is sent only to the Rohingya, we are asking the Rakhine for a superhuman feat of generosity. ‘Here, you are in need, but these other people have more need – go hungry, and let them be helped first.’ What can we expect but that they be angry?”
A good point indeed, especially when one factors in feelings of national vulnerability for Rakhine people and, as someone else pointed out at my meeting today, the history of aid to Muslims in Rakhine State. That is, the connection between present-day aid and aid to those refugees *returning* to Rakhine State from Bangladesh during the 1991 repatriation process.
I do agree that there is violence by both sides, but I think it’s very difficult for any of us to know what the truth of the matter is. This is a matter of government restriction. Though I do wonder, if there were mass violence against Rakhine people committed by Muslims, why would the government not seek to make this more known internationally? It would certainly help them with the PR problem that is international perception of one-sided anti-Muslim violence.
You make a good point – some Muslims are doing very well economically, and this is often missing in portrayal of ‘victimized Muslims in Burma’ by outside commentators. But this is peanuts compared to the wealth that is being amassed by ‘crony’ families. And I wonder if it is just that ‘Muslim wealth’ is of the kind that is more visible. Regardless, surely no one would say that because some are wealthy, communal violence against others of the same religion is justified!
I don’t mean this as a tit for tat competition about who is more of a victim; I don’t think that is helpful, and I condemn violence by any side. Instead, I think we need to recognize the potential for this violence to grow on a massive scale. And no matter the situation now, if violence grows, Muslims are likely to bear the brunt. That’s a simple product of numbers and power. I sincerely hope such a future can be avoided.
Rules are rules, Ohn. Barbarians do not have the intelligence to make them, barely enough to follow them. So they alone can make ’em, they alone can break ’em. The norms of double standards apply.
The statement “The paler, more genteel Bangkokians often seem uneasy in this atmosphere,” is somewhat biased towards the protesters [kor por por sor]. Actually, the Bangkokians show full support to Kamnun Suthep, as seen today in front of the US Embassy on Wireless Road.
As expected, Thai politicians who appear in the ICIJ documents include Potjaman Na Pombejra, the former wife of Thailand’s ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and her stepbrother Bhanapot Damapong, plus a few ex-ministers with links to Thaksin.
There is though absolutely no need to be bashful. Every one knows that the United States of America is the beacon of humanity and hope and justice. Even the thousands of drone victims would agree to that. Please teach us the barbarian savages to the righteous path, America, the merciful and save our souls.
“…decision-making, self-confidence, friendship, and cultural and religious differences…”
Appealing to hip-sounding themes suing fashionable slogans to stimulate of youths’ natural latent desire to foment a readily available destructive army to be then used like those dogs of Napoleon in Animal Farm.
The young men version as in young (ignorant yet full of confidence and aggression) monks is now complete,and now in full display.
We see it all over the world now. Current show in town is in Ukraine.
Equivalent version of Burmese version of disaster seems in full hatch.
Yes, when there to check on the vaults and found that most of the gold belongs to the Democrats and their Military backers – robbing a country for 60 years tends to make you rich..
The program, Colorful Girls Circles, is run by a community-based organization known as Girl Determined and includes discussions about decision-making, self-confidence, friendship, and cultural and religious differences. More than 1,300 girls between the ages of 12 and 17 participate in the peer groups every week, meeting in the outskirts of Rangoon and Mandalay, as well as the cities of Sagaing and Monywa in northwest Burma, according to Brooke Zobrist, technical director of the organization.
“We also plan to expand in 2014 to some areas of Shan State and Mon State,” she says…
Last week Girl Determined held its third annual conference in Rangoon’s Hlaing Township, with a focus on girls’ rights in education. About 420 girls, including over 100 young nuns, attended the all-day event, while more than 800 girls went to a conference in Mandalay the week before.
Boy, all you NM Shinawatra supporters have become awfully quiet since PM Yingluck’s
‘Emergency Decree’…Have you all followed the relatives to Zurich to check on the gold ?
The rich have always run Thailand and still do. The government has always been politics free, just business. The various cliques (aka political parties)tried to win as many seats in parliament as they could so that they could get into a coalition parliament and latch on to the gravy train. Thaksin wanted it all because he needed a healthy committed majority to get rid of the burdens on Shin Corp, sell abroad and reap a fortune. It was this success that split his party (the coalition partners of 2000-4 had sold their souls to TRT)before the 2004 election. The coup saved him from immediate retribution and he has manipulated his way back into the driving seat. He is being backed by most of his erstwhile partners to swing the election. The rich will be running Bangkok as before.
Thanks for the info, Nomi. I thought at the time that the amazing eruption of animus towards Thaksin over this must have some interesting deep cause. Temasek, a state-owned corporation from of a country at the top of the business probity scale, was very unlikely to be involved in any shady deal. I speculated (unfairly?) that the CPB (from a country well down on the business probity scale) let Thaksin know that they wanted his slice of Shin, but Thaksin got a better price from Temasek (practically lèse majesté). I read much later that the CPB ended up with Temasek’s bundle (at a conveniently depressed price?). Am I being unfair to the Bangkok kleptocracy?
[…] the claim that “rally stages are packed every night with people from all regions” is not accurate at all. That said, we do not doubt that “massive amounts of donations continue to pour in” to […]
If the Shutdown is as ineffectual as most of the correspondents claim, why has it been necessary to impose emergency decree? (illegally if the Senators claim to the Constitutional Court is upheld) This will add to four other recent breaches of law by the adminstration.
I think the shooting of Khanchai is a more marked own goal than the likelihood of Suthep lobbing grenades
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Middle class rage threatens democracy
Good point: ‘Follow the money’
The colonel from Savannakhet
Years ago, the Lao People’s Revolutionary Party daily profiled Kong Le in a (partly) sympathetic article. But the conclusion was that KL was a front for the US and its Thai mercenary allies in Laos whose primary achievement was to prolong the war. Next to revolutionary ethnic minorities leaders like Sithon Kommadam, Faydang Lobliyao, Nhiavu Lobliyao, and Asang Laoli, the Lao opinion of Kong Le comes closer to “quisling” than “patriot”. But they do think of him more highly than Vang Pao who they totally despise.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
Quite a lot of this is complete Tosh IMO (and quite a lot is also good analysis). You’re looking at it incorrectly. This is a ‘reverse power grab’. It’s mostly a critical mass of people (middle class and otherwise) who are sick of one family trying to monopolise power, and they want a radical end to it, because the Thaksin juggernaut just won’t go away. Sure there’s a power struggle behind the scenes, but it’s one of struggle for balance. Time and again the Establishment have sat back and let a victorious criminal take power and get on with running the country according to an election mandate, only to watch him and his cronies abuses it. Now that the middle class and others have risen up in disgust they are not letting up until a viable reform structure is put in place to clip Peua Thaksin’s wings. Then there can be an election which a proper political party can win (not a family fiefdom). Case in point, ask yourself where all the rice scheme money is, and how it might be used to affect the outcome of an election. Hardly healthy democracy. The middle class are informed enough to realise this. And they are not paid to protest for any particular power brokers. Big difference.
The end of constitutionalism in Malaysia
UMNO, Perkasa and Malay radicals have hijacked the Malaysian Constitution and converted into a mandate for ‘Ketuanan Melayu’ (Malay Supremacy), not realizing the irony as they criticise other nations (Israel, in particular) for supposed fascist tendencies, which Perkasa, and its backers in UMNO, transparently epitomise. One could, with little effort, transpose the speeches of Nazi ideologue Alfred Rosenberg or Joseph Goebbels, with any number of Perkasa utterances or those of voluble former Prime Miniser, Mahathir bin Mohamad. The parallels between Ibrahim Ali of Perkasa or Dr. Mahathir and Rosenberg or Goebbels is not mere hyperbole, it is in fact a very clear and (dangerous) transposition that threatens Malaysia’s multicultural society and makes a mockery of Prime Minister Najib’s superficial and ephemeral ‘Dialogue of the Moderates,’ a concept as oxymoronic, as the potential race war over a Malaysian vegetable (kangkung) is absurd.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
Putting Chalerm in charge…….ahhh i can feel the champion of democracy and his goodwill to all, commitment to iclusiveness, respect for a real social contract, improved social equity, respect for rule of law. This remains a power grab by an old style strongman and his clique that started in 1999 and can only end in a continuing downward spiral for Thailand.
Sleeping dogs
Hi Plan B,
In the event I attended, there was no discussion of violence against Buddhists, beyond one comment by the sayadaw regarding the soldier (police officer, I think, but he said ‘soldier’) missing in Rakhine State. I was careful to include that. I think this was because the event was not supposed to engage such issues – both the NGO workers’s comment and the sayadaw’s reference to the missing soldier were met with clear discomfort by the room.
To be honest, my reason for including a reference to the NGO worker was not to highlight the plight of Muslims in Rakhine State. I think that plight is indisputably serious, and also well publicized. Instead, I wanted to trigger reflection on how far apart the different world views are. The NGO worker was saying, ‘If you want people to live together, you must do this.’ The assumption seemed to be that everyone in the room wants people to live together, that everyone in the room agreed that Rakhine and Muslims *should* live together in Sittwe. There clearly is not such agreement anymore – and I think the international/NGO community has not done a good job of operating in light of this. Though obviously that is quite difficult for everyone, and especially outsiders.
I also think there needs to be much greater recognition of just how dire circumstances are for Rakhine people, not just Muslims. I was in a meeting today and someone said, loosely, the following, which I thought to be very convincing: “By most measures, many Buddhist people in Rakhine meet the thresholds needed for international assistance. Yet the Rohingya do as well, and even though the Rakhine situation is bad, the Rohingya may be worse. So if there is only $1, you can understand where it goes. Yet when aid is sent only to the Rohingya, we are asking the Rakhine for a superhuman feat of generosity. ‘Here, you are in need, but these other people have more need – go hungry, and let them be helped first.’ What can we expect but that they be angry?”
A good point indeed, especially when one factors in feelings of national vulnerability for Rakhine people and, as someone else pointed out at my meeting today, the history of aid to Muslims in Rakhine State. That is, the connection between present-day aid and aid to those refugees *returning* to Rakhine State from Bangladesh during the 1991 repatriation process.
I do agree that there is violence by both sides, but I think it’s very difficult for any of us to know what the truth of the matter is. This is a matter of government restriction. Though I do wonder, if there were mass violence against Rakhine people committed by Muslims, why would the government not seek to make this more known internationally? It would certainly help them with the PR problem that is international perception of one-sided anti-Muslim violence.
You make a good point – some Muslims are doing very well economically, and this is often missing in portrayal of ‘victimized Muslims in Burma’ by outside commentators. But this is peanuts compared to the wealth that is being amassed by ‘crony’ families. And I wonder if it is just that ‘Muslim wealth’ is of the kind that is more visible. Regardless, surely no one would say that because some are wealthy, communal violence against others of the same religion is justified!
I don’t mean this as a tit for tat competition about who is more of a victim; I don’t think that is helpful, and I condemn violence by any side. Instead, I think we need to recognize the potential for this violence to grow on a massive scale. And no matter the situation now, if violence grows, Muslims are likely to bear the brunt. That’s a simple product of numbers and power. I sincerely hope such a future can be avoided.
Sleeping dogs
Rules are rules, Ohn. Barbarians do not have the intelligence to make them, barely enough to follow them. So they alone can make ’em, they alone can break ’em. The norms of double standards apply.
The shutdown: In honor of NN
The statement “The paler, more genteel Bangkokians often seem uneasy in this atmosphere,” is somewhat biased towards the protesters [kor por por sor]. Actually, the Bangkokians show full support to Kamnun Suthep, as seen today in front of the US Embassy on Wireless Road.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
I like you better Neptunian when your interlocutions orbit around ‘whorehouses’, where your expertise and profound knowledge indisputably shine.
Of offshore accounts, hidden vaults and gold you are are as blind as a bat … have you ever googled?
From ICIJ (International Consortium of Investigative Journalists): ‘Nearly 600 Thais have owned offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands and other havens.’
(http://www.icij.org/offshore/mugabe-crony-among-thai-names-secret-offshore-files)
As expected, Thai politicians who appear in the ICIJ documents include Potjaman Na Pombejra, the former wife of Thailand’s ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and her stepbrother Bhanapot Damapong, plus a few ex-ministers with links to Thaksin.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
Only if you choose to ignore all that is being said.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
My apologies to NM and readers for all the typo I have been putting up. Farsightedness and a refusal to wear glasses. Good thing, logic still intact.
Sleeping dogs
There is though absolutely no need to be bashful. Every one knows that the United States of America is the beacon of humanity and hope and justice. Even the thousands of drone victims would agree to that. Please teach us the barbarian savages to the righteous path, America, the merciful and save our souls.
Time for a bhikkhuni sangha?
“…decision-making, self-confidence, friendship, and cultural and religious differences…”
Appealing to hip-sounding themes suing fashionable slogans to stimulate of youths’ natural latent desire to foment a readily available destructive army to be then used like those dogs of Napoleon in Animal Farm.
The young men version as in young (ignorant yet full of confidence and aggression) monks is now complete,and now in full display.
We see it all over the world now. Current show in town is in Ukraine.
Equivalent version of Burmese version of disaster seems in full hatch.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
Yes, when there to check on the vaults and found that most of the gold belongs to the Democrats and their Military backers – robbing a country for 60 years tends to make you rich..
Time for a bhikkhuni sangha?
The not so hidden hand of Western feminists seen here in Burma too.
The program, Colorful Girls Circles, is run by a community-based organization known as Girl Determined and includes discussions about decision-making, self-confidence, friendship, and cultural and religious differences. More than 1,300 girls between the ages of 12 and 17 participate in the peer groups every week, meeting in the outskirts of Rangoon and Mandalay, as well as the cities of Sagaing and Monywa in northwest Burma, according to Brooke Zobrist, technical director of the organization.
“We also plan to expand in 2014 to some areas of Shan State and Mon State,” she says…
Last week Girl Determined held its third annual conference in Rangoon’s Hlaing Township, with a focus on girls’ rights in education. About 420 girls, including over 100 young nuns, attended the all-day event, while more than 800 girls went to a conference in Mandalay the week before.
A new wave of mission civilisatrice no doubt.
Middle class rage threatens democracy
Boy, all you NM Shinawatra supporters have become awfully quiet since PM Yingluck’s
‘Emergency Decree’…Have you all followed the relatives to Zurich to check on the gold ?
Middle class rage threatens democracy
The rich have always run Thailand and still do. The government has always been politics free, just business. The various cliques (aka political parties)tried to win as many seats in parliament as they could so that they could get into a coalition parliament and latch on to the gravy train. Thaksin wanted it all because he needed a healthy committed majority to get rid of the burdens on Shin Corp, sell abroad and reap a fortune. It was this success that split his party (the coalition partners of 2000-4 had sold their souls to TRT)before the 2004 election. The coup saved him from immediate retribution and he has manipulated his way back into the driving seat. He is being backed by most of his erstwhile partners to swing the election. The rich will be running Bangkok as before.
Thoughts of a pro-government leader
Thanks for the info, Nomi. I thought at the time that the amazing eruption of animus towards Thaksin over this must have some interesting deep cause. Temasek, a state-owned corporation from of a country at the top of the business probity scale, was very unlikely to be involved in any shady deal. I speculated (unfairly?) that the CPB (from a country well down on the business probity scale) let Thaksin know that they wanted his slice of Shin, but Thaksin got a better price from Temasek (practically lèse majesté). I read much later that the CPB ended up with Temasek’s bundle (at a conveniently depressed price?). Am I being unfair to the Bangkok kleptocracy?
The shutdown: In honor of NN
[…] the claim that “rally stages are packed every night with people from all regions” is not accurate at all. That said, we do not doubt that “massive amounts of donations continue to pour in” to […]
The shutdown: In honor of NN
If the Shutdown is as ineffectual as most of the correspondents claim, why has it been necessary to impose emergency decree? (illegally if the Senators claim to the Constitutional Court is upheld) This will add to four other recent breaches of law by the adminstration.
I think the shooting of Khanchai is a more marked own goal than the likelihood of Suthep lobbing grenades