Al:
I wish corruption is as simple as black and white or eye for an eye.
It is not.
Specifically targeting one corrupted man in a sea of corruption will not reduce corruption. While it cannot be all (Do I wish in vain!), it has to be a little more encompassing than that – perhaps a few from every side, if only to give an impression of fairness – for corruption reduction to work.
If only one side is always prevented from corruption, but its OK for the other side, then the message is really: only I can corrupt, not you. Then, you get “absolute power corrupts absolutely”. I do not want to see Thailand down that course with Thaksin, nor do I want to see Thailand down that course with Suthep. So yes, I want to see both Thaksin and Suthep convicted, preferably by an independent international court so neither side can claim the judges are stacked or prejudiced against them. After those two, whoever who is leading the charge to clear up corruption will have to pick a few more big fishes – then we may finally see the start of lower corruption.
As to your question, will Thaksin do it? At this point in time, NO.
At this point in time, I do not believe anyone is sincere about fighting corruption at all, and that this is only an excuse for a power grab.
That is why I am more concerned about my right to vote being stolen. History has shown that once the right to vote is taken away, even a billion dollars cannot buy it back. The price of that right is usually paid in blood and tears. I am not sorry to say, I value life above dollars.
The prediction is pretty much what I think will happened too. However, this time round there may be a severe backlash.. the beginning of the end for the elites. French revolution comes to mind. Hope Mrs Suthep don’t say “let them eat cake” That would really be bad.
Good try, but to put this in real perspective, you should have put up the figures of wealth increase of other Thai billionaires. That would be revealing…
Your comments about U Nu are at once revolting, patent nonsense, and ignorant. U Nu was hardly a right-wing fanatic or a faux-Socialist. He was elected and he was a democrat and respected by the vast majority or Burmese, and not just by ethnic Bamars. Your emotional, irrational and nonsensical comments, in particular about U Nu, demonstrates your lack of knowledge of contemporary Burma, as well as Burma in any historical context.
The point, my dear plan B, is to come up with a civilised solution to the issue instead of harping on endlessly about the past. Quelling requires a real rebellion first, like the Mujahid rebellion in Western Burma in 1947. The Sri Lankan solution might then be employed.
If they are deemed stateless then they need residential permits/ID of one form or another since they have been in Burma for so long unless you can deport them but where to?
Re-Burmanisation or Re-Rakhinisation of the three townships could be one answer being sought. Certainly the concentration of one group of people, not in a simple ghetto in some city, but in a large enclave, is asking for trouble, but we are where we are. How it all came about is history.
Outsiders egging them on and helping them notwithstanding (starting another jihad may be just what the govt wanted), voluntary resettlement and dispersion may be the way forward in exchange for recognition and residency. Done properly in a humane and legitimate manner, future assimilation and integration may be expected over time like the Burmese/Rakhine Muslims.
It doesn’t help when the Rohingya spokesmen insist on a prior ‘historical’ settlement in the region. Harking back to history, neither does their past attempt at carving out an independent caliphate by force of arms, genocidal measures on the local Rakhine, land grabbing and dominating over a large territory next to their original homeland.
Just a word of caution. As the article and many posts indicate, there are similarities between what is going on in Malaysia and the inquisition. But don’t get taken away! As far as I know we do not have any auto da fe, neither are there public burnings of heretics or ethnic cleansings, etc. Malaysia ist still quite civilized! (This does not imply that I don’t agree with most of the critique! But, if such a critique had been raised during the inquisition, one would quite certainly be turned into a barbecue)
There is no reason to be ashamed to be muslim and Bumiputra at all, as little as there is no reason to be ashamed to be christian, buddhist, European, Chinese etc. The problems come up, if people assume to be better then others because they are muslim, christian, white or whatever they might be. We ourselves are responsible for what we do (this is what all religions teach), and thus can and should only be ashamed if we do bad things to others, for whatever reason.
That would have two important implications. First they are likely to be different from Hanbali school of Islamic practice as in that only country in the world of a family’s name Saudi. Being Hanafi sect with some Sufi practices, modern day Salafsits may not see them so eye to eye. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi%E2%80%93Salafi_relations
But importantly they would have leaning for Pakistan as All Muslim State as opposed to Bangladeshi who died in millions to be apart from Urudu speaking Pakistani. Hence Jaamat-e-Islami as their main supporter and sympathizer.
For U Nu though, even though it is so sobbingly romantic to shine him up for being “DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED” (such overused/ reverse-meaning nauseating words), he was the most right wing religious fanatic of faux-socialist. Building pagoda at the top of Nat-dwelling Popa and building a town “Kyauk-pa-daung” which until today is the only sizable town in Burma with no mosque, as such was his strong discriminatory credentials.
Lastly, sections of the Burmese equivalents aping the dominant militant, overbearing, yet at once subservient to the rulers, practitioners of the Brand Buddhism in Sri Lanka is biggest and most devastating social problem in Burma today where extreme cruelty and crass boastful, nauseating opulence is now called popular religion. Fanned by the current inane leadership, all inclusive, of the country it can only get worse.
Ok, for the record, here’s my prediction on Suthep and Co’s strategy over the course of the next month or so.
Anyone who follows the political games in Thailand over the medium term knows that the 2006 coup makers specifically stacked the election commission, National Anti Corruption Commission and the Judiciary with ‘good men’ to ensure they can disbar any government at will.
Suthep, the coup makers chief operations officer will remain under strict orders to spend most of January ratcheting up the chaos in Bangkok, any deaths or violence will be a huge bonus because no matter who what or how, it will all be blamed on men in black and their master in Dubai.
The core objective is to keep the general public on edge, wear them down, keep them up at night worrying so they grow tired with the endless conflict. Suthep is tasked to ensure they just want it to stop and for peace to return to the nation at any cost.
Then, days before the election and with chaos on the streets reaching an ugly and destructive climax, the coup installed ‘good men’ in the judiciary will be instructed to disbar the democratically elected government on tedious legal grounds (they used a cooking show last time, so any excuse will do really).
With the exquisitely timed political vacuum, and Sutheps perfectly orchestrated Chaos on the streets, the coup makers symphony will reach a crescendo when the military gallantly ride into Bangkok to restore peace.
The army will have ‘no choice under the circumstances but to oversee the installation of a National Reform Government’ made up primarily of, you guessed it ‘appointed good men’ and a few random faces from both sides of the political divide to act as window dressing. Democracy will be temporarily stolen from the masses yet again.
I think this prediction will prove to be accurate and the coup makers have it all planned down to the finest detail. The part that I think is impossible to plan or predict is the scope and depth of the inevitable back lash. I think the coup makers have totally underestimated that part.
Wkipedia provides some interesting Information on the failures of cloud seeding and other rain making attempts. By the way, this whole Thing started in the 1940th.
– So that means you think corruption is blank or white…an eye for an eye and so on.
– I agree, let’s jail them all…(the corrupted); but where do we start now? Will Thaksin do it? Well maybe not…but after all, he is holding the throne and we all see how that is going? In financial terms…
At my street just along Wong Wien Yai at the Thon Buri side of Bangkok we waited. It was a very long wait. Since 10AM the buzz and air of anticipation breezed in with the heat. Reading my mind, the wife said “The Kamnan and the people under the sun … “ . A friend who owns a shop at BanMo phoned to warn us. “Suthep is still at Pahurad, very slow, because everyone wanted to see and be seen with the Kamnan …. lines/rows of people giving banknotes are very thick and very long.”, he said.
The cacophony of whistles, motorcycle roars and rah rah “Kamnan Su Su Su!” get louder demanding attention. Excitement, smiles and neighbors wave at each other. Pleasantly .. known Red Shirt symphatizers were there too, and they waved and we waved back. Good sports my Red Shirt neighbors – blowing whistles, their kids waving Thai flags, and their daughters wearing those silly head gears! Then two women jumped in front of the slowing motorcade (three taxis were leading) and started ramwong-dancing while lively speakers atop one truck blasted rhythm and fun; the faces smiled again and I realized we were all getting primed for the Kamnan. The smell of sweat was not pleasant but the noises somehwere else were enticing … she pulled me along to make the walk two or so kilometers ahead… my wife could not wait!
Then we say him! The Kamnan! At the corner the Kamnan began his invasion of my neighborhood . . . . .
“What came over you?” my wife protested but I could see she was very pleased. “Nearly every morning at breakfast all you do is cuss and insult Suthep, while you read your Ipad.” And my wife was starting to pant a little as we make the long trek back home. “Yet I saw you press three banknotes to the Kamnan! And those were not red banknotes either.”
Is there anywhere in the Holy Quran that forbids or even discourage non believers to use the word Allah?
If so please enlighten me, as I have not managed to find it. If you truly believe that the Holy Quran is the final authority on whatever disputes that Man may have, then please use it to enlighten me and not use verses from non-Quranic texts or Fatwa’s from Malaysians.
Aaaahh not you too K. Nomi inhaling this canard: “Please don’t prosecute Thaksin … because there were others too before Thaksin …”
That’s a very pathetic very lame argument K. Nomi and you know it! Time to stop the rot K. Nomi. Now is that time. The Thaksin mega-kleptomanic toxicity is poison to Thailand … pure poison.
Good point. Maybe the Northeast is poor because it was always designed to be poor. The whole idea may have been to put them (the conquered Lao) into inhospitable areas with low agricultural productivity, landlocked, etc.–basically keep them at a struggling-to-survive subsistence level so they can never challenge Bangkok. And at the same time be an endless supply of cheap labor for domestic work, sex work, etc. In other words, they want them to be “buffalo.”
But now the buffalo have thrown off their yokes…
This makes it a little easier to understand the fury behind the Sino-Thai/Siamese/Palace/Elite/Yellows of Bangkok. They never wanted the Northeast to develop. The development of the Northeast was a problem to be dealt with, not a goal.
Everything was just theater. The king parading around handing out diplomas, ribbon cutting, surveying, as well as all the stuff he didn’t do in 60 years on the throne and while sitting on some $30 billion in assets. And then Thaksin comes and in a few years in power suddenly improves the lives of the people dramatically…
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How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Al:
I wish corruption is as simple as black and white or eye for an eye.
It is not.
Specifically targeting one corrupted man in a sea of corruption will not reduce corruption. While it cannot be all (Do I wish in vain!), it has to be a little more encompassing than that – perhaps a few from every side, if only to give an impression of fairness – for corruption reduction to work.
If only one side is always prevented from corruption, but its OK for the other side, then the message is really: only I can corrupt, not you. Then, you get “absolute power corrupts absolutely”. I do not want to see Thailand down that course with Thaksin, nor do I want to see Thailand down that course with Suthep. So yes, I want to see both Thaksin and Suthep convicted, preferably by an independent international court so neither side can claim the judges are stacked or prejudiced against them. After those two, whoever who is leading the charge to clear up corruption will have to pick a few more big fishes – then we may finally see the start of lower corruption.
As to your question, will Thaksin do it? At this point in time, NO.
At this point in time, I do not believe anyone is sincere about fighting corruption at all, and that this is only an excuse for a power grab.
That is why I am more concerned about my right to vote being stolen. History has shown that once the right to vote is taken away, even a billion dollars cannot buy it back. The price of that right is usually paid in blood and tears. I am not sorry to say, I value life above dollars.
Another big weekend for Thailand
The prediction is pretty much what I think will happened too. However, this time round there may be a severe backlash.. the beginning of the end for the elites. French revolution comes to mind. Hope Mrs Suthep don’t say “let them eat cake” That would really be bad.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Good try, but to put this in real perspective, you should have put up the figures of wealth increase of other Thai billionaires. That would be revealing…
The Little India riot – another view
About $4000 sgp?
A Malaysian Inquisition?
The Inquisition is the wrong allusion and wrong analogy.
“First they came for the Chinese, and nobody
spoke up…”
“Then they came for the Indians, and nobody
spoke up..”
“And then they came for the Orang Asli, and
nobody spoke up…”
“And then they came for the Bumiputera
in East Malaysia, and nobody spoke up..”
“And then the came for the Buddhists, and the
Hindus, and the Taoists, and then they
came for the Christians, but nobody spoke up..”
“Finally, they came for the Malays, and
when they did, there was nobody left to speak up..”
Sound familiar ?
http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2014/01/09/police-in-malaysia-investigate-priest-for-sedition/
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Your comments about U Nu are at once revolting, patent nonsense, and ignorant. U Nu was hardly a right-wing fanatic or a faux-Socialist. He was elected and he was a democrat and respected by the vast majority or Burmese, and not just by ethnic Bamars. Your emotional, irrational and nonsensical comments, in particular about U Nu, demonstrates your lack of knowledge of contemporary Burma, as well as Burma in any historical context.
The Little India riot – another view
No kidding!
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
The point, my dear plan B, is to come up with a civilised solution to the issue instead of harping on endlessly about the past. Quelling requires a real rebellion first, like the Mujahid rebellion in Western Burma in 1947. The Sri Lankan solution might then be employed.
If they are deemed stateless then they need residential permits/ID of one form or another since they have been in Burma for so long unless you can deport them but where to?
Re-Burmanisation or Re-Rakhinisation of the three townships could be one answer being sought. Certainly the concentration of one group of people, not in a simple ghetto in some city, but in a large enclave, is asking for trouble, but we are where we are. How it all came about is history.
Outsiders egging them on and helping them notwithstanding (starting another jihad may be just what the govt wanted), voluntary resettlement and dispersion may be the way forward in exchange for recognition and residency. Done properly in a humane and legitimate manner, future assimilation and integration may be expected over time like the Burmese/Rakhine Muslims.
It doesn’t help when the Rohingya spokesmen insist on a prior ‘historical’ settlement in the region. Harking back to history, neither does their past attempt at carving out an independent caliphate by force of arms, genocidal measures on the local Rakhine, land grabbing and dominating over a large territory next to their original homeland.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Just a word of caution. As the article and many posts indicate, there are similarities between what is going on in Malaysia and the inquisition. But don’t get taken away! As far as I know we do not have any auto da fe, neither are there public burnings of heretics or ethnic cleansings, etc. Malaysia ist still quite civilized! (This does not imply that I don’t agree with most of the critique! But, if such a critique had been raised during the inquisition, one would quite certainly be turned into a barbecue)
A Malaysian Inquisition?
There is no reason to be ashamed to be muslim and Bumiputra at all, as little as there is no reason to be ashamed to be christian, buddhist, European, Chinese etc. The problems come up, if people assume to be better then others because they are muslim, christian, white or whatever they might be. We ourselves are responsible for what we do (this is what all religions teach), and thus can and should only be ashamed if we do bad things to others, for whatever reason.
The Little India riot – another view
Higher than what it would be back home in India.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Neptunian,
You may well be right, but then Malaysia will not be advanced by singing only to the choir, will it ?
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Few observations here may be relevant.
Regardless of fruitless digging up the history to the neanderthal age and finding the origin of the word “Rohingya” etc, the very people stuck in neglected sub-human concentration camps in Arakan would have large resemblance to the people who were of Farai-di movement where people on the ground, then as well as now, were used by their leaders for their own agenda. http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=wzm36rEol3sC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=faraidi+movement&source=bl&ots=EYpjE-Ow1m&sig=k6dzvR1himdVnT6Bh6V-UJ5qtzw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=w9vOUtiHBIf1kQXXjYHQAg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=faraidi%20movement&f=false
That would have two important implications. First they are likely to be different from Hanbali school of Islamic practice as in that only country in the world of a family’s name Saudi. Being Hanafi sect with some Sufi practices, modern day Salafsits may not see them so eye to eye. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi%E2%80%93Salafi_relations
But importantly they would have leaning for Pakistan as All Muslim State as opposed to Bangladeshi who died in millions to be apart from Urudu speaking Pakistani. Hence Jaamat-e-Islami as their main supporter and sympathizer.
For U Nu though, even though it is so sobbingly romantic to shine him up for being “DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED” (such overused/ reverse-meaning nauseating words), he was the most right wing religious fanatic of faux-socialist. Building pagoda at the top of Nat-dwelling Popa and building a town “Kyauk-pa-daung” which until today is the only sizable town in Burma with no mosque, as such was his strong discriminatory credentials.
Lastly, sections of the Burmese equivalents aping the dominant militant, overbearing, yet at once subservient to the rulers, practitioners of the Brand Buddhism in Sri Lanka is biggest and most devastating social problem in Burma today where extreme cruelty and crass boastful, nauseating opulence is now called popular religion. Fanned by the current inane leadership, all inclusive, of the country it can only get worse.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Ok, for the record, here’s my prediction on Suthep and Co’s strategy over the course of the next month or so.
Anyone who follows the political games in Thailand over the medium term knows that the 2006 coup makers specifically stacked the election commission, National Anti Corruption Commission and the Judiciary with ‘good men’ to ensure they can disbar any government at will.
Suthep, the coup makers chief operations officer will remain under strict orders to spend most of January ratcheting up the chaos in Bangkok, any deaths or violence will be a huge bonus because no matter who what or how, it will all be blamed on men in black and their master in Dubai.
The core objective is to keep the general public on edge, wear them down, keep them up at night worrying so they grow tired with the endless conflict. Suthep is tasked to ensure they just want it to stop and for peace to return to the nation at any cost.
Then, days before the election and with chaos on the streets reaching an ugly and destructive climax, the coup installed ‘good men’ in the judiciary will be instructed to disbar the democratically elected government on tedious legal grounds (they used a cooking show last time, so any excuse will do really).
With the exquisitely timed political vacuum, and Sutheps perfectly orchestrated Chaos on the streets, the coup makers symphony will reach a crescendo when the military gallantly ride into Bangkok to restore peace.
The army will have ‘no choice under the circumstances but to oversee the installation of a National Reform Government’ made up primarily of, you guessed it ‘appointed good men’ and a few random faces from both sides of the political divide to act as window dressing. Democracy will be temporarily stolen from the masses yet again.
I think this prediction will prove to be accurate and the coup makers have it all planned down to the finest detail. The part that I think is impossible to plan or predict is the scope and depth of the inevitable back lash. I think the coup makers have totally underestimated that part.
So is my prediction on track?
Royal rain-making in the news
Wkipedia provides some interesting Information on the failures of cloud seeding and other rain making attempts. By the way, this whole Thing started in the 1940th.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
@Nomi
– So that means you think corruption is blank or white…an eye for an eye and so on.
– I agree, let’s jail them all…(the corrupted); but where do we start now? Will Thaksin do it? Well maybe not…but after all, he is holding the throne and we all see how that is going? In financial terms…
Another big weekend for Thailand
Today I personally met Suthep Thaugsuban.
At my street just along Wong Wien Yai at the Thon Buri side of Bangkok we waited. It was a very long wait. Since 10AM the buzz and air of anticipation breezed in with the heat. Reading my mind, the wife said “The Kamnan and the people under the sun … “ . A friend who owns a shop at BanMo phoned to warn us. “Suthep is still at Pahurad, very slow, because everyone wanted to see and be seen with the Kamnan …. lines/rows of people giving banknotes are very thick and very long.”, he said.
The cacophony of whistles, motorcycle roars and rah rah “Kamnan Su Su Su!” get louder demanding attention. Excitement, smiles and neighbors wave at each other. Pleasantly .. known Red Shirt symphatizers were there too, and they waved and we waved back. Good sports my Red Shirt neighbors – blowing whistles, their kids waving Thai flags, and their daughters wearing those silly head gears! Then two women jumped in front of the slowing motorcade (three taxis were leading) and started ramwong-dancing while lively speakers atop one truck blasted rhythm and fun; the faces smiled again and I realized we were all getting primed for the Kamnan. The smell of sweat was not pleasant but the noises somehwere else were enticing … she pulled me along to make the walk two or so kilometers ahead… my wife could not wait!
Then we say him! The Kamnan! At the corner the Kamnan began his invasion of my neighborhood . . . . .
“What came over you?” my wife protested but I could see she was very pleased. “Nearly every morning at breakfast all you do is cuss and insult Suthep, while you read your Ipad.” And my wife was starting to pant a little as we make the long trek back home. “Yet I saw you press three banknotes to the Kamnan! And those were not red banknotes either.”
My wife just had a very good time.
A Malaysian Inquisition?
Is there anywhere in the Holy Quran that forbids or even discourage non believers to use the word Allah?
If so please enlighten me, as I have not managed to find it. If you truly believe that the Holy Quran is the final authority on whatever disputes that Man may have, then please use it to enlighten me and not use verses from non-Quranic texts or Fatwa’s from Malaysians.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Aaaahh not you too K. Nomi inhaling this canard: “Please don’t prosecute Thaksin … because there were others too before Thaksin …”
That’s a very pathetic very lame argument K. Nomi and you know it! Time to stop the rot K. Nomi. Now is that time. The Thaksin mega-kleptomanic toxicity is poison to Thailand … pure poison.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Good point. Maybe the Northeast is poor because it was always designed to be poor. The whole idea may have been to put them (the conquered Lao) into inhospitable areas with low agricultural productivity, landlocked, etc.–basically keep them at a struggling-to-survive subsistence level so they can never challenge Bangkok. And at the same time be an endless supply of cheap labor for domestic work, sex work, etc. In other words, they want them to be “buffalo.”
But now the buffalo have thrown off their yokes…
This makes it a little easier to understand the fury behind the Sino-Thai/Siamese/Palace/Elite/Yellows of Bangkok. They never wanted the Northeast to develop. The development of the Northeast was a problem to be dealt with, not a goal.
Everything was just theater. The king parading around handing out diplomas, ribbon cutting, surveying, as well as all the stuff he didn’t do in 60 years on the throne and while sitting on some $30 billion in assets. And then Thaksin comes and in a few years in power suddenly improves the lives of the people dramatically…