Been thinking about the democracy does not work in Asia thesis. I would say ‘False’.
A better way might be: Democracy do not work optimally where great inequality in socio-political awareness, be learned, and wealth exist. Democracy grew less effective as the inequality widens.
I think this is not the right place to argue over this topic. But I would like to add one more point, that the vote in a democracy is not only a ‘right’, it is also a responsibity. Often in any democracy side, we only hear about the ‘right’, rarely the ‘responsibiity’.And when the latter is mentioned, it is tragically almost always use to justify not giving that power to the people because the ‘masses’ are – not ready, not educated, not responsible, not smart, etc.
Wang:
China Politico’s perspective on current Thai crisis will certainly be interesting and useful. The links between China and Thailand is ever present, historically as well as through various naratives. The hush-hush rumors of Chinese warriors battling to expel the Burmese, the hidden stash of gold wrap in cabbages that never reach China, etc, told by many elderly chinese workers by the godowns along Songwat when I was child running wild over there. My grandaunt who disappeared to China with her entire class to aid in the fight for communism. Her views and her colleagues observations are always sharp and refreshing. The novel, The dragon’s pearl, about a Thai ward to Zhou Enlai. The reason why she was sent was more interesting than why she stayed.
There is much ‘strangeness’ in Thais version of the greatness of Thai history. That perhaps accounts for the lack of certain ingredients in contemporary thai society that seems strange when one looks at the said-history.
You might be interested in this article by Patrick Jory: Problems in contemporary Thai Nationalist Historiography
I would love discussions on China’s take on future thai political directions.
Yes, I have always expected another race riot against the Chinese especially in Mandalay this time. Perhaps until the time is ripe for the generals to instigate one we’ll have to wait patiently.
At present we owe so much to the Chinese what with the unqualified success of the SEA Games they’ll probably resume the Myitsone dam construction. Shwe Gas pipelines were successfully completed behind the smoke screen of the Rakhine unrest.
While the 969 movement gains momentum with the regime’s blessing, another anti-Chinese riot won’t be necessary unless the govt desperately needs to gain brownie points with the West.
I guess NM ran out of neutral colors. Watermelon Red, Sanyasin Powder Orange, Fascist Border Police & Ninja Black, Conservative True Blue, Cowardly Custard Yellow, Military Khaki, Virginal Holier-than-thou White, Nouveaux Prai Chianti Red and Non-Pinko Pink are all pretty much reserved by the the massed forces of succession fever reaction.
A very spiteful Christmas & New Year to ALL factions of this country’s fascist mafia troublemakers, their variously color-coded thugs and their money-grabbing cronies & apologists.
Might have known the venting would supercede practical suggestions.
You say that as if you were addressing an assemblage of senior diplomats who actually had the ability to do something about the situation.
As for a “practice suggestion”, Mr. Hollingworth, I would suggest that you avoid labeling the rightful observation that so many of the Palestinian’s coreligionists and cultural cousins act with utter callousness toward their plight as mere “venting”, as we attempt to have a civil and constructive dialogue concerning your interview subject’s tragic situation.
Indeed, considering the geographic proximity of the two countries, and the previous outspoken advocacy for the Palestinian cause in many sectors of Malaysian civil society, don’t you think that putting pressure on the Malaysian government to put its money where its mouth is concerning the Palestinian refugee situation is a germane suggestion?
As others have suspected here, Hollingworth’s purported concern for Arab refugees in Thailand is only a screen for an attack on Israel’s policies. Too bad – there are important issues regarding Muslim refugees that transcend Islamic hatred and envy of Israeli culture.
That those views are “becoming” mainstream is not surprising or new at all. And “surely does”, should read “surely is”.
This is just a plug for Ahmad Fauzi’s post. This post should have just been called “Plug for Ahmad Fauzi”.
Why say it’s new that these views are mainstream and entrenched when clearly they’re not? Or, if they are, how can you prove something like that? Increasingly becoming etc… Where are the graphs with time series data?
The UMNO-non UMNO polemic is overcooked. What about writing with a new perspective on Malaysia? Isn’t there one?
Mr. Sommer never said Dr. Cohen was condemning the entire population as terrorists he said “Wait a second here Mr. Cohen,you need to put these Rohingyah rebel groups into perspective before you go condemning the entire Muslim/Rohingyah population of Burma to suspected terrorist status.” More than half of Cohen’s comment focused on the RSO and ARIF’s connection with Al Qaeda, a terrorist group.
Well, the army chief just refused to rule out a coup. In fact, he said it ‘could happen’ (although the military was trying to stay neutral).
And Deputy PM / Foreign Minister / Thaksin’s cousin is reported as saying that some members of the government would prefer a coup to handing over to Suthep et al.
Politically this country is completely dysfunctional.
Might have known the venting would supercede practical suggestions. Looks like UN/UNHCR/UNWRA are all busted flushes. But then what else do you suggest?
Oh, well, I may as well join in with a link to the documentary “This is My Land – Hebron” to put Israel’s granting of rights to the Palestinians in perspective.
Weary as some might be of tocharian’s “obsession” with harping on and on about “Chinese bashing”, there is surely a strong point for him to be so. It is common knowledge since Khin Nyunt’s (the most treacherous snake, a Chinese) time, Chinese have been buying National Registration Cards by bundles and all the prime lands in Mandalay are all taken by them driving the natives away, etc. etc.
Just like in Pangsang, the signs in Mandalay WERE in Chinese letters as well before they took them down hastily one day incidentally just before Rohingya pogrom and most inhumane unspeakable cruelty on them (for which ALL Burmese seem decidedly nonchalant about) arose. Then again it was treated by equally decadent world in unison with “LIP SERVICE” and LIP SERVICE alone, then and NOW,including Muslim countries.
The most inhumane other killings and deprivations are indeed happening in support of the CHINESE GAS PIPE LINE and the DAM, THE DAM. Not ROHINGYA GAS PIPELINE as it happens and definitely NOT Rohingya DAM. And these killing, raping and torturing happening EVERY day INCLUDING this day you are reading these letters, are done by these highly DEMOCRATIC, reformed, amazingly transformation-al Sit-tut (of course by the bogeyman hardliners but not these nice Thamada Gyi or his Peace Team- how stupid can one get?) in support of CHINESE interest and definite NOT for any Muslim however one hates them. Oh, Latpadaung where global pin-up girl, Amay Suuuuuu is exasperated the villagers simply do not curl up and die quietly.
And why does no one ever mention the fact that these undersea graveyards of hundreds of thousands of freshly fin-less sharks, extinction of tigers and rhinos all over the world, (in Burma, dogs, snakes and even Koke-ko Pins )(do you need a longer list?), etc. etc are related to one race only on earth? And THIS IS a decidedly RACIST remark.
Unfortunately, unless one faces the truth and realty NOW, it will always catch up with one later with interest .
Current global formula of Exuberant sucking up of the Chinese will exact a heavy price one day. Neither good is inciting them as the most virulent Fascist rulers in LDP are doing now. At least ten of so-called Class A War Criminals in Yasukune were directly involved in Nanking.
In my opinion, upon reading Dr. Cohen’s writing, I found nothing indicating that he condemned the entire Rohingya population as terrorists. It is important to understand the history of the Rohingya in order to make a more unbiased opinion and viewpoint. Different perspectives are always needed to be informed readers.
There are no reliable statistics for illegal immigration in Burma, as Burma has porous borders and no territorial integrity, but Chinese “recent immigrants” are ubiquitous in Burma, as everyone knows (Zhong Guo, Zhong Guo ├╝ber Alles und ├╝berall).
Chinese can easily buy fake Burmese ID’s, for example of dead Burmese (may their ghosts haunt them!) from corrupt Burmese officials, including military guys (Tatmadaw or KIA or Shan or Wa or whatever).
Once, many years a go, I was offered a fake Burmese ID like from some “well-connected” Chinese guy who was just trying to be nice to me (he didn’t quite offer me a young Burmese bride for an extra 1000 Yuan LOL) Chinese are so “nice and caring”!
Individuals may be changing their views, but international govts have always known UMNO to be what it is. They just choose to ignore it.
Just recently, it was disclosed that Najib “the moderate” have been funding Perkasa (the Ultra Malay KKK equivalent) while touting 1Malaysia. Was there a whimper from the international community, including journalists covering Malaysia? NO
Can you back up this piece of statistics? “there are more illegal Chinese immigrants than illegal Bingala-Kalars in Burma”.
Unless you are happy to designate a good chunk of territory to the Rohingya, like say New Mexico to the Hispanics, talk about the Chinese does not hold water. “Kokang substate” is Han Chinese but it’s a fait accompli, a British legacy. In fact so is the Bengali presence in Western Burma. With compliments.
it is not unreasonable to ask that Palestinians who were born and lived there little more than 60 years ago and their descendants be afforded the same right.
And since its inception, Israel has afforded them that right, of which currently, they compose 20 percent of the Israel population, their native tongue is one of two official languages of the country, they enjoy representation in the Israeli parliament, military, and civil service, and enjoy the right of assembly and protest (of which there exist political parties in Israel that argue for the dissolution of Israel as an ethnically-defined nation-state and its reformation into a pluralistic, multicultural state), but I think you know that.
Why even look to the Middle East? Where is the supposed Malaysian “solidarity” to the Palestinian cause? Where is their spirit of sadaqah toward fellow believers? For all their talk, they allow these refugees to languish in a non-Muslim majority country where they can’t even get halal food!
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Assault on Nick Nostitz
[…] at the receiving end of accusations of being biased or even physical attacks against both local and foreign […]
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Been thinking about the democracy does not work in Asia thesis. I would say ‘False’.
A better way might be: Democracy do not work optimally where great inequality in socio-political awareness, be learned, and wealth exist. Democracy grew less effective as the inequality widens.
I think this is not the right place to argue over this topic. But I would like to add one more point, that the vote in a democracy is not only a ‘right’, it is also a responsibity. Often in any democracy side, we only hear about the ‘right’, rarely the ‘responsibiity’.And when the latter is mentioned, it is tragically almost always use to justify not giving that power to the people because the ‘masses’ are – not ready, not educated, not responsible, not smart, etc.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
Wang:
China Politico’s perspective on current Thai crisis will certainly be interesting and useful. The links between China and Thailand is ever present, historically as well as through various naratives. The hush-hush rumors of Chinese warriors battling to expel the Burmese, the hidden stash of gold wrap in cabbages that never reach China, etc, told by many elderly chinese workers by the godowns along Songwat when I was child running wild over there. My grandaunt who disappeared to China with her entire class to aid in the fight for communism. Her views and her colleagues observations are always sharp and refreshing. The novel, The dragon’s pearl, about a Thai ward to Zhou Enlai. The reason why she was sent was more interesting than why she stayed.
There is much ‘strangeness’ in Thais version of the greatness of Thai history. That perhaps accounts for the lack of certain ingredients in contemporary thai society that seems strange when one looks at the said-history.
You might be interested in this article by Patrick Jory: Problems in contemporary Thai Nationalist Historiography
I would love discussions on China’s take on future thai political directions.
All the best for your assignment.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Yes, I have always expected another race riot against the Chinese especially in Mandalay this time. Perhaps until the time is ripe for the generals to instigate one we’ll have to wait patiently.
At present we owe so much to the Chinese what with the unqualified success of the SEA Games they’ll probably resume the Myitsone dam construction. Shwe Gas pipelines were successfully completed behind the smoke screen of the Rakhine unrest.
While the 969 movement gains momentum with the regime’s blessing, another anti-Chinese riot won’t be necessary unless the govt desperately needs to gain brownie points with the West.
Another big weekend for Thailand
I guess NM ran out of neutral colors. Watermelon Red, Sanyasin Powder Orange, Fascist Border Police & Ninja Black, Conservative True Blue, Cowardly Custard Yellow, Military Khaki, Virginal Holier-than-thou White, Nouveaux Prai Chianti Red and Non-Pinko Pink are all pretty much reserved by the the massed forces of succession fever reaction.
A very spiteful Christmas & New Year to ALL factions of this country’s fascist mafia troublemakers, their variously color-coded thugs and their money-grabbing cronies & apologists.
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
Might have known the venting would supercede practical suggestions.
You say that as if you were addressing an assemblage of senior diplomats who actually had the ability to do something about the situation.
As for a “practice suggestion”, Mr. Hollingworth, I would suggest that you avoid labeling the rightful observation that so many of the Palestinian’s coreligionists and cultural cousins act with utter callousness toward their plight as mere “venting”, as we attempt to have a civil and constructive dialogue concerning your interview subject’s tragic situation.
Indeed, considering the geographic proximity of the two countries, and the previous outspoken advocacy for the Palestinian cause in many sectors of Malaysian civil society, don’t you think that putting pressure on the Malaysian government to put its money where its mouth is concerning the Palestinian refugee situation is a germane suggestion?
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
As others have suspected here, Hollingworth’s purported concern for Arab refugees in Thailand is only a screen for an attack on Israel’s policies. Too bad – there are important issues regarding Muslim refugees that transcend Islamic hatred and envy of Israeli culture.
Who divides Malaysia?
That those views are “becoming” mainstream is not surprising or new at all. And “surely does”, should read “surely is”.
This is just a plug for Ahmad Fauzi’s post. This post should have just been called “Plug for Ahmad Fauzi”.
Why say it’s new that these views are mainstream and entrenched when clearly they’re not? Or, if they are, how can you prove something like that? Increasingly becoming etc… Where are the graphs with time series data?
The UMNO-non UMNO polemic is overcooked. What about writing with a new perspective on Malaysia? Isn’t there one?
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Mr. Sommer never said Dr. Cohen was condemning the entire population as terrorists he said “Wait a second here Mr. Cohen,you need to put these Rohingyah rebel groups into perspective before you go condemning the entire Muslim/Rohingyah population of Burma to suspected terrorist status.” More than half of Cohen’s comment focused on the RSO and ARIF’s connection with Al Qaeda, a terrorist group.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Any chance of getting the colour of links changed to something more obvious? They are practically invisible.
Thanks and have a good new year.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Well, the army chief just refused to rule out a coup. In fact, he said it ‘could happen’ (although the military was trying to stay neutral).
And Deputy PM / Foreign Minister / Thaksin’s cousin is reported as saying that some members of the government would prefer a coup to handing over to Suthep et al.
Politically this country is completely dysfunctional.
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
Might have known the venting would supercede practical suggestions. Looks like UN/UNHCR/UNWRA are all busted flushes. But then what else do you suggest?
Oh, well, I may as well join in with a link to the documentary “This is My Land – Hebron” to put Israel’s granting of rights to the Palestinians in perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5kfE5uDEBY
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Weary as some might be of tocharian’s “obsession” with harping on and on about “Chinese bashing”, there is surely a strong point for him to be so. It is common knowledge since Khin Nyunt’s (the most treacherous snake, a Chinese) time, Chinese have been buying National Registration Cards by bundles and all the prime lands in Mandalay are all taken by them driving the natives away, etc. etc.
Just like in Pangsang, the signs in Mandalay WERE in Chinese letters as well before they took them down hastily one day incidentally just before Rohingya pogrom and most inhumane unspeakable cruelty on them (for which ALL Burmese seem decidedly nonchalant about) arose. Then again it was treated by equally decadent world in unison with “LIP SERVICE” and LIP SERVICE alone, then and NOW,including Muslim countries.
The most inhumane other killings and deprivations are indeed happening in support of the CHINESE GAS PIPE LINE and the DAM, THE DAM. Not ROHINGYA GAS PIPELINE as it happens and definitely NOT Rohingya DAM. And these killing, raping and torturing happening EVERY day INCLUDING this day you are reading these letters, are done by these highly DEMOCRATIC, reformed, amazingly transformation-al Sit-tut (of course by the bogeyman hardliners but not these nice Thamada Gyi or his Peace Team- how stupid can one get?) in support of CHINESE interest and definite NOT for any Muslim however one hates them. Oh, Latpadaung where global pin-up girl, Amay Suuuuuu is exasperated the villagers simply do not curl up and die quietly.
And why does no one ever mention the fact that these undersea graveyards of hundreds of thousands of freshly fin-less sharks, extinction of tigers and rhinos all over the world, (in Burma, dogs, snakes and even Koke-ko Pins )(do you need a longer list?), etc. etc are related to one race only on earth? And THIS IS a decidedly RACIST remark.
Unfortunately, unless one faces the truth and realty NOW, it will always catch up with one later with interest .
Current global formula of Exuberant sucking up of the Chinese will exact a heavy price one day. Neither good is inciting them as the most virulent Fascist rulers in LDP are doing now. At least ten of so-called Class A War Criminals in Yasukune were directly involved in Nanking.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Mr. Sommer
In my opinion, upon reading Dr. Cohen’s writing, I found nothing indicating that he condemned the entire Rohingya population as terrorists. It is important to understand the history of the Rohingya in order to make a more unbiased opinion and viewpoint. Different perspectives are always needed to be informed readers.
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
There are no reliable statistics for illegal immigration in Burma, as Burma has porous borders and no territorial integrity, but Chinese “recent immigrants” are ubiquitous in Burma, as everyone knows (Zhong Guo, Zhong Guo ├╝ber Alles und ├╝berall).
Chinese can easily buy fake Burmese ID’s, for example of dead Burmese (may their ghosts haunt them!) from corrupt Burmese officials, including military guys (Tatmadaw or KIA or Shan or Wa or whatever).
Once, many years a go, I was offered a fake Burmese ID like from some “well-connected” Chinese guy who was just trying to be nice to me (he didn’t quite offer me a young Burmese bride for an extra 1000 Yuan LOL) Chinese are so “nice and caring”!
Who divides Malaysia?
Individuals may be changing their views, but international govts have always known UMNO to be what it is. They just choose to ignore it.
Just recently, it was disclosed that Najib “the moderate” have been funding Perkasa (the Ultra Malay KKK equivalent) while touting 1Malaysia. Was there a whimper from the international community, including journalists covering Malaysia? NO
Beyond bigotry: Unravelling ethnic violence in Rakhine
Can you back up this piece of statistics?
“there are more illegal Chinese immigrants than illegal Bingala-Kalars in Burma”.
Unless you are happy to designate a good chunk of territory to the Rohingya, like say New Mexico to the Hispanics, talk about the Chinese does not hold water. “Kokang substate” is Han Chinese but it’s a fait accompli, a British legacy. In fact so is the Bengali presence in Western Burma. With compliments.
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
it is not unreasonable to ask that Palestinians who were born and lived there little more than 60 years ago and their descendants be afforded the same right.
And since its inception, Israel has afforded them that right, of which currently, they compose 20 percent of the Israel population, their native tongue is one of two official languages of the country, they enjoy representation in the Israeli parliament, military, and civil service, and enjoy the right of assembly and protest (of which there exist political parties in Israel that argue for the dissolution of Israel as an ethnically-defined nation-state and its reformation into a pluralistic, multicultural state), but I think you know that.
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
Why even look to the Middle East? Where is the supposed Malaysian “solidarity” to the Palestinian cause? Where is their spirit of sadaqah toward fellow believers? For all their talk, they allow these refugees to languish in a non-Muslim majority country where they can’t even get halal food!
The hypocrisy and cynicism of these governments astounds; they see it fit to weekly broadcast the vicious rants of decrepit imams and and mullahs raising their kris or janbiya in the air while screaming for Jewish blood, and yet they are content to push the victims of the atmosphere of hatred they help to create as pawns in a cruel game of realpolitik. I include the war profiteering racket known as “UNWRA” in this indictment, of which 30,000 UN bureaucrats would lose their jobs if peace and reconciliation were achieved.
Interview with a Palestinian refugee in Thailand
They were in 1948 and they turned it down.