In respect of the first sentence in Ahmad Fauzi Abdul Hamid’s piece above, perhaps attention could be drawn to the comments of Ibn Battuta when visiting Sumatra in the 14th century. When passing through Samudera (or al-Jawa as he referred to it) in 1345-46, Ibn Battuta recorded that the ruler – one Sultan Al-Malik Al-Zahir – was “a Sh─Бfi’─л in madhhab and a lover of jurists” who “often fights against and raids the infidels.” It was further noted that “the people of his country are Sh─Бfi’─л who are eager to fight infidels and readily go on campaign with him. They dominate the neighbouring infidels who pay jizya to have peace.”
Like in earlier post by Hanuman, I feel sad for the King. Perhaps – I would not know – he would have wanted his country to progress like Singapore, about the wealthiest country today. Now I know of democracy deficit, at least in the past, in Singapore and I am usually very strict about that kind of things but I like to know I am not killed while walking off from SMRT station at night which could happen in some of the newly undeveloped countries in continental european union, or south america.
Now living in Thailand I saw that was the direction during the now hated (by some) Thaksin years – economy opened and it grew and everyone got richer, I felt things moving, there was a, say like “cool Thailand feeling” if you like, and I felt great, this was Asian Tiger economy and I got richer too. And I personally do no not care about some killed drug dealers. Thailand got better in those years, while after the military coup of 2006 it has been shaky – this is my personal account, perhaps some see events that followed like major international airport being taken over or more than 100 people killed as a high.
Now what the King said can in no way seen as supporting the Suthep faction or the violent protest and earlier he spoke in very clear terms against undemocratic ideals now being flouted by Suthep/”Democrat”/PAD/New Politics faction/So called Royalists/17 Families/Mad – and make no mistake, I am not anti-monarchy and regard this King a very good man who has done many good things for this country.
It appears live and let live is not an option for some. Hey, lets storm every TV station and force them to show only our feed or be mugged(much like Nick)! Great way forward! Bring Thailand to last century, or make it two!
It does seem hard to differentiate baby from bath waters.
Burma is poor material-ly not because it is not suitably endowed but because of inordinate expenditure of different killing implements and resource diversion for that purpose at once wasting away productive land and manpower.
The sharp up swing of the graph line in Mr Jacob Sommer’s distinctively informative article should violently alarm any true benevolent Burma watcher as it pokes a gaping hole in the this grooooovy sickening lovey-dovey narrative of ASTONISHING REFORM rotten crap.
With few glaring exceptions like Vietnam War (American War), who wins the war is often decided by who is funding it and how much and how much support mechanism is there by innocent looking bystanders. Rather like American election. Kachin war is no exception.
We now see in Kachin Land full effort is going on, after thoroughly pounding the land, to buy off the leaders as well the corrupted populace.
The narrative is that to get “Peace” there has to be development. And this development entails surrendering to the multinational companies and their agents and facilitators named in Derek Tonkin’s comment to give them a freehand and let them formulate absolute tyrannical authoritarian rules the whole country has to live with for decades in parallel with increasing the military and riot police funding and training under various fanciful guises and pretenses.
In other words, limiting the extravagant (awfully wasteful) military spending and to continue peaceful, co-operative lives public of Burma are leading now is NOT an option.
To that end are a large collective of various players chiding the POOR little Burmese for their backwardness, not-so-liberal-ness, poor-ness and most of all, not-so-like-us-ness. Only choice is total denunciation and renunciation of traditional peaceful living, copying every thing so-called LIBERAL, and LIBERATED (funnily containing distinctive discrimination and pathological idol worship-ping) and spending most if not all the earnings in killing implements of TV movie nature.
The fact that once were dissident Burmese who have such authority to inform the general public has no ability to see and inform after such long time to realize is perhaps the deepest cut. Baby and bath waters!
A reminder that presently Myanmar is under the largesse of SR Gen Than Shwe, “Disciplined Democracy”.
Until this road travel is far enough and long enough that ‘A U turn is no longer possible’.
Mentioning of War Crime, and related documented atrocious behaviors against this regime will create a persecution complex akin to the observed recent paranoia, that might truncate this present largesse.
Myanmar already has a frame work to ROL that just need to be updated and applied diligently to “Justice for ALL/ROL”/
Quite sure you will realize that the fastest way to ROL is to recruit present judges and solicitors within Myanmar and bring them up to speed to the justice system in any Western democracies, with EXPLICIT CONTINUAL SUPPORT to justice for ALL within Myanmar.
Mr. Tonkin, thank you for your comment. Your point is well taken but I think you may have misunderstood my final sentence. My point was not that all FDI projects (read World Bank sponsored basic infrastructure construction) are bad but instead that investment by foreign firms previously forbidden from doing business in Burma has increased the government’s tax revenue/credit supply and therefore its ability to buy weapons which it has used to fight these deadly wars. I believe Suu Kyi’s comment was that the level of FDI so far isn’t enough to trickle down to affect the lives of ordinary Burmese. She was not saying that it was insignificant in terms of how much it was helping to fund the government. I’m certainly not against basic infrastructure projects to help the average Burmese person as long as they don’t include measures that will fund the regime and allow it buy more arms and wage wars against its own population. The lesson here is probably that when sanctions are lifted it needs to be done in a way that doesn’t simply allow the regime to fill up its bank account and go on an arms buying shopping spree, especially when the sanctioned country is in the process of fighting a civil war. Sudan, for example, might be a similar case in the years to come.
As long as the military is the government in Myanmar, Mr Sommer’s observations, of “guns and violence” to solve every problems including political ones, are just—Old News.
If Mr Sommer will wish to associate the observed facts responsibly with any ongoing events in toto, he will need to attribute responsibilities to parties, that historically and continue to contribute to present quagmire other than recent ones.
Being an outsider and regarded as pariah by the regime apparatchik yet supported by most citizenry and respected internationally, DASSK has ONLY RECENTLY being in position of somewhat influence.
Nothing is going to change towards more freedom/ROL until she can forge an understanding with the regime apparatchik within Upper and lower Hlutthaw.
Meanwhile ALL investment that were so lacking is god even though it might benefit the cronies more.
Daw Su has been hammering away at rule of law that is tally lacking in the country ruled by ruthless army men for years. with the current comprising of army guys in the majority, things won’t change much. the international aids and development programs will certainly do little to help the majority that are in dire need of help. Those in power and their cronies will continue to ride roughshod over proper procedures and tyrannize the people.
Hi Vichai.
Several years ago one of my yellow shirt friends told me ‘ Thaksin is corrupt everyone knows he is corrupt but we can’t prove it because he is too clever’.
I say if you can’t prove it in a court of law we must presume he is innocent.
Ged, Chuan and Abhisit may be personally uncorrupt. But Chuan dissolved the Parliament in the nineties so that Suthep wouldn’t have to face the music about corrupt land deals in Phuket and Abhisit was so desperate to become PM that he sold his soul and the Interior Ministry to the devil – Newin. So the fact that they haven’t been raking in the cash personally makes their clean image just that – an image. Good to see that you put “clean” in inverted commas.
And what exactly is vote-buying. It’s sometimes pictured as 500 baht per vote but it’s also pictured as paid-off kamnans (wise men/village elders?) advising/persuading/convincing/telling/ordering their locals who to vote for, and also as party organizers getting the vote out, providing transport, meals and parties. It’s also described in terms of “populist” policies i.e. bribing the peasants with policies they want, famously described by THE Nation newspaper some years ago as catering to their “unprincipled wants and needs”.
It’s difficult to know what people mean when they talk about vote buying.Many of these things are perfectly normal practices in Australia where I come from which is generally considered to be quite democratic.
You started with one anecdote about an old Pattaya sea-dog and his daughter and then generalized it to say that there was “no doubt” about vote buying. So let me give you another anecdote about corrupt electioneering. My father was a stalwart grass roots member and organizer of the Australian Labor Party. When he got a bit drunk, he would tell us stories of electioneering in the fifties and sixties where the slogan “Vote early, vote often” and the idea that the dead should get a vote because they would have wanted it to go to the Labor Party, were popular. I suspected his role in this and the extent of it were exaggerated for an audience but it certainly happened; but Australia didn’t give up on democracy on account of it not being perfect.
Nor should THailand. Democracy takes practice and is never perfect.
Anyway, perhaps you should have a look at this article written by two people who have done really serious longterm study on Thaksin and Thai politics.
The King addressing the people said ‘I am a constitutional King and every elected government is my government’.
So said the King of Toyland.
He begged the mob that had been making trouble on the streets not to try and overthrow his elected government.
When the mob heard these wise words they went home and went about their normal business.
So the King and all the people lived happily ever after.
More likely the average person per sqm would be 2, not 3.
It would be 3 in parts but also quite a large percentage of the area would be 1 or even less per sqm.
So, on average, 2 is much more likely.
Secondly Ratchadamnoen Klang Avenue is not a square, empty box. There is street furniture, flower beds, lamp posts, letter and phones boxes etc etc and, of course the stage and the behind it etc. This would likely total at least 5th of the space – so we’re down to 40,000sqm and 80,000 protesters.
At Sanam Luang – half the space was occupied. Again Bangkok Pundit makes no calculation for the intrusion of fencing, stage areas, etc etc. So, we could take a fifth off the 59000sqm occupied by the protesters leaving us with 47200sqm.
Multiple 47200 by two and you get roughly 95000. Add that to the Ratchadamnoen Klang Avenue figure and it comes out at about 170k.
I very very much doubt the protest number went above 200k at its absolute maximum.
I’ve no idea why anyone would cite an anonymous blogger without at least attempting some form of fact check but Pundit’s calculations are very poor and not credible.
Blaming one lowly Hlutthaw member, for the events that has transpired due to:
1) Colonial Legacy
2) West useless careless acts
3) Natural and man made disasters
Surely illustrate where your heart is for MYANMAR beyond blaming the Chinese at every turn and disregarding the much dangerous looming Muslim vs Buddhist problem. a legacy of #1, exacerbated by #2 and #3.
Another shameless way to suggest a country called Myanmar, ruled by a regime that have to rely on the “foreigners, mainly Chinese” to operate “the jets and helicopters”.
The source : “According to intercepted radio communications”
Hmm Will someone @ New Mandala please help?
1) Does that mean Charles F, is on to a reliable source.
2) Does that suggest the regime is so incompetent that deserve no quarter whatsoever, to the west justifiable useless careless policy and Charles F. assertion that Bamar lives are worth less that that of ethnic Brothers?
What about the ongoing Muslim onslaught that no one here at New Mandala ever heard Charles F. or Tocherian mentioned?
The discussion of Democracy in Thailand must always include the understanding of the significance of vote buying. Just before one of the first Taksin democratic “wins” we were on a dive boat going out to sea from Pattaya. The captain an old local when asked was proud to explain he had already been paid to vote for Taksin. His daughter who lived in Bangkok hissed at him to keep quiet as the Farang would think him foolish and corrupt, so an argument followed, but there was no doubt that a very clever systematic process of buying votes was a major part of the Taksin approach to democracy and has been in every election since. (other parties are hardly innocent of this crime!)
This makes it very hard to treat Taksin as anything other than another in the long list of corrupt Prime Ministers Thailand has suffered from. Albeit one with deeper pockets, through his mobile phone empire.
But Taksin was and could be so much more, because he did identify the key issues which the majority of voters cared about, for example free or low cost health care, and did something about them. His governments did more to help poor people in some key ways than any other Thai Government, so I also have a problem with saying everything Taksin did is bad or wrong.
But look at his record, it is in stark contrast to the myth he has built. He has founded more failed businesses than businesses that have succeeded, he allegedly got his effective monopoly on mobile phones in the early days via corrupt means,and then spent years using this to generate his great wealth. Later it was more subtle, again allegedly he arranged for his company to have different and beneficial terms for his mobile phone license than his rivals.
Then he blatantly abused his position to issue decrees to change the law, and sell his company to the Singaporeans.
Is this the hero that people, including influential commentators want to see restored to power.
Lets hope that never happens to Thailand.
Oh and just in case you think I support Suthep, nothing could be further from the truth. The current nonsense of “peoples power” is simply ducking the much harder issues of eliminating corruption from politics, something few if any nations have had success with.
I believe Chuan and later Apisit were genuinely “clean” and honest Prime Ministers, but other elements in the Democrat party are at best on a par with the worst of Taksin and potentially not that good!
At no time have I seen the Democrats really focused on how to benefit the poor or lower middle class in Thailand, although I do believe at least in recent years they have had more respect for the law, and more respect for parliament than the current government or any of those Taksin governments have evidenced
Clearly Thailand needs a new force in politics, one around which clean politicians, and I think there are several, and other clean and maybe idealistic elements of Thai society can coalesce. Sad thing is there is no practical sign of such a force emerging.
Meanwhile bleating about democracy and respect for the will of the majority when democracy is submerged by corruption is not appropriate or helpful. No one knows how people would vote in a corruption free election because there has never been one.
I for one believe that the cleaner the election the less the domination of votes by one party will be seen, I think a large number of people who vote for Taksin and his proxies are in fact fed up with corruption and fed up with blatant cronyism, but really what option to they have!
A corruption free election today would I suspect return the current government but with a much reduced majority, and only if they promised no chance of “amnesties” to let Taksin avoid his court awarded punishment for corrupt activities, as determined by the courts when his proxies were in power.
Such a government would need to become honest over key issues like the rice subsidies, and the government finances, and would need to ensure parliament oversaw all government expenditure rather than hiding it in extra-parliamentary bodies due to the funding source being the Chinese government!
Transparency is the enemy of the corrupt, and they knows it. Look at how the Thai ranking in corruption and freedom of expression dropped during the years Taksin was in charge, Taksin on this evidence is no friend of real Democracy, it appears he regards it as a tool, much beloved of fools, that he can allegedly use to whitewash his manipulation of the country for his, his family and his cronies benefit.
Sadly it is hard to see a viable alternative at the moment and that is surely the saddest part of the Thai story today.
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Islamist conservatism in Malaysia
In respect of the first sentence in Ahmad Fauzi Abdul Hamid’s piece above, perhaps attention could be drawn to the comments of Ibn Battuta when visiting Sumatra in the 14th century. When passing through Samudera (or al-Jawa as he referred to it) in 1345-46, Ibn Battuta recorded that the ruler – one Sultan Al-Malik Al-Zahir – was “a Sh─Бfi’─л in madhhab and a lover of jurists” who “often fights against and raids the infidels.” It was further noted that “the people of his country are Sh─Бfi’─л who are eager to fight infidels and readily go on campaign with him. They dominate the neighbouring infidels who pay jizya to have peace.”
The king’s birthday speech
Like in earlier post by Hanuman, I feel sad for the King. Perhaps – I would not know – he would have wanted his country to progress like Singapore, about the wealthiest country today. Now I know of democracy deficit, at least in the past, in Singapore and I am usually very strict about that kind of things but I like to know I am not killed while walking off from SMRT station at night which could happen in some of the newly undeveloped countries in continental european union, or south america.
Now living in Thailand I saw that was the direction during the now hated (by some) Thaksin years – economy opened and it grew and everyone got richer, I felt things moving, there was a, say like “cool Thailand feeling” if you like, and I felt great, this was Asian Tiger economy and I got richer too. And I personally do no not care about some killed drug dealers. Thailand got better in those years, while after the military coup of 2006 it has been shaky – this is my personal account, perhaps some see events that followed like major international airport being taken over or more than 100 people killed as a high.
Now what the King said can in no way seen as supporting the Suthep faction or the violent protest and earlier he spoke in very clear terms against undemocratic ideals now being flouted by Suthep/”Democrat”/PAD/New Politics faction/So called Royalists/17 Families/Mad – and make no mistake, I am not anti-monarchy and regard this King a very good man who has done many good things for this country.
It appears live and let live is not an option for some. Hey, lets storm every TV station and force them to show only our feed or be mugged(much like Nick)! Great way forward! Bring Thailand to last century, or make it two!
Myanmar’s military: Money and guns
It does seem hard to differentiate baby from bath waters.
Burma is poor material-ly not because it is not suitably endowed but because of inordinate expenditure of different killing implements and resource diversion for that purpose at once wasting away productive land and manpower.
The sharp up swing of the graph line in Mr Jacob Sommer’s distinctively informative article should violently alarm any true benevolent Burma watcher as it pokes a gaping hole in the this grooooovy sickening lovey-dovey narrative of ASTONISHING REFORM rotten crap.
With few glaring exceptions like Vietnam War (American War), who wins the war is often decided by who is funding it and how much and how much support mechanism is there by innocent looking bystanders. Rather like American election. Kachin war is no exception.
We now see in Kachin Land full effort is going on, after thoroughly pounding the land, to buy off the leaders as well the corrupted populace.
The narrative is that to get “Peace” there has to be development. And this development entails surrendering to the multinational companies and their agents and facilitators named in Derek Tonkin’s comment to give them a freehand and let them formulate absolute tyrannical authoritarian rules the whole country has to live with for decades in parallel with increasing the military and riot police funding and training under various fanciful guises and pretenses.
In other words, limiting the extravagant (awfully wasteful) military spending and to continue peaceful, co-operative lives public of Burma are leading now is NOT an option.
To that end are a large collective of various players chiding the POOR little Burmese for their backwardness, not-so-liberal-ness, poor-ness and most of all, not-so-like-us-ness. Only choice is total denunciation and renunciation of traditional peaceful living, copying every thing so-called LIBERAL, and LIBERATED (funnily containing distinctive discrimination and pathological idol worship-ping) and spending most if not all the earnings in killing implements of TV movie nature.
The fact that once were dissident Burmese who have such authority to inform the general public has no ability to see and inform after such long time to realize is perhaps the deepest cut. Baby and bath waters!
Questions about rule of law for DASSK
Dear Ms K. Simion
A reminder that presently Myanmar is under the largesse of SR Gen Than Shwe, “Disciplined Democracy”.
Until this road travel is far enough and long enough that ‘A U turn is no longer possible’.
Mentioning of War Crime, and related documented atrocious behaviors against this regime will create a persecution complex akin to the observed recent paranoia, that might truncate this present largesse.
Myanmar already has a frame work to ROL that just need to be updated and applied diligently to “Justice for ALL/ROL”/
Quite sure you will realize that the fastest way to ROL is to recruit present judges and solicitors within Myanmar and bring them up to speed to the justice system in any Western democracies, with EXPLICIT CONTINUAL SUPPORT to justice for ALL within Myanmar.
Myanmar’s military: Money and guns
Mr. Tonkin, thank you for your comment. Your point is well taken but I think you may have misunderstood my final sentence. My point was not that all FDI projects (read World Bank sponsored basic infrastructure construction) are bad but instead that investment by foreign firms previously forbidden from doing business in Burma has increased the government’s tax revenue/credit supply and therefore its ability to buy weapons which it has used to fight these deadly wars. I believe Suu Kyi’s comment was that the level of FDI so far isn’t enough to trickle down to affect the lives of ordinary Burmese. She was not saying that it was insignificant in terms of how much it was helping to fund the government. I’m certainly not against basic infrastructure projects to help the average Burmese person as long as they don’t include measures that will fund the regime and allow it buy more arms and wage wars against its own population. The lesson here is probably that when sanctions are lifted it needs to be done in a way that doesn’t simply allow the regime to fill up its bank account and go on an arms buying shopping spree, especially when the sanctioned country is in the process of fighting a civil war. Sudan, for example, might be a similar case in the years to come.
Myanmar’s military: Money and guns
As long as the military is the government in Myanmar, Mr Sommer’s observations, of “guns and violence” to solve every problems including political ones, are just—Old News.
If Mr Sommer will wish to associate the observed facts responsibly with any ongoing events in toto, he will need to attribute responsibilities to parties, that historically and continue to contribute to present quagmire other than recent ones.
Questions about rule of law for DASSK
Being an outsider and regarded as pariah by the regime apparatchik yet supported by most citizenry and respected internationally, DASSK has ONLY RECENTLY being in position of somewhat influence.
Nothing is going to change towards more freedom/ROL until she can forge an understanding with the regime apparatchik within Upper and lower Hlutthaw.
Meanwhile ALL investment that were so lacking is god even though it might benefit the cronies more.
Questions about rule of law for DASSK
Daw Su has been hammering away at rule of law that is tally lacking in the country ruled by ruthless army men for years. with the current comprising of army guys in the majority, things won’t change much. the international aids and development programs will certainly do little to help the majority that are in dire need of help. Those in power and their cronies will continue to ride roughshod over proper procedures and tyrannize the people.
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Hi Vichai.
Several years ago one of my yellow shirt friends told me ‘ Thaksin is corrupt everyone knows he is corrupt but we can’t prove it because he is too clever’.
I say if you can’t prove it in a court of law we must presume he is innocent.
Thailand’s stark choice
Though I like your math better, to be clear, the cited source was the Post and not the Pundit.
Thailand’s stark choice
Ged, Chuan and Abhisit may be personally uncorrupt. But Chuan dissolved the Parliament in the nineties so that Suthep wouldn’t have to face the music about corrupt land deals in Phuket and Abhisit was so desperate to become PM that he sold his soul and the Interior Ministry to the devil – Newin. So the fact that they haven’t been raking in the cash personally makes their clean image just that – an image. Good to see that you put “clean” in inverted commas.
And what exactly is vote-buying. It’s sometimes pictured as 500 baht per vote but it’s also pictured as paid-off kamnans (wise men/village elders?) advising/persuading/convincing/telling/ordering their locals who to vote for, and also as party organizers getting the vote out, providing transport, meals and parties. It’s also described in terms of “populist” policies i.e. bribing the peasants with policies they want, famously described by THE Nation newspaper some years ago as catering to their “unprincipled wants and needs”.
It’s difficult to know what people mean when they talk about vote buying.Many of these things are perfectly normal practices in Australia where I come from which is generally considered to be quite democratic.
You started with one anecdote about an old Pattaya sea-dog and his daughter and then generalized it to say that there was “no doubt” about vote buying. So let me give you another anecdote about corrupt electioneering. My father was a stalwart grass roots member and organizer of the Australian Labor Party. When he got a bit drunk, he would tell us stories of electioneering in the fifties and sixties where the slogan “Vote early, vote often” and the idea that the dead should get a vote because they would have wanted it to go to the Labor Party, were popular. I suspected his role in this and the extent of it were exaggerated for an audience but it certainly happened; but Australia didn’t give up on democracy on account of it not being perfect.
Nor should THailand. Democracy takes practice and is never perfect.
Anyway, perhaps you should have a look at this article written by two people who have done really serious longterm study on Thaksin and Thai politics.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/383418/vote-buying-claims-nothing-but-dangerous-nonsense
Thailand’s stark choice
Well, further proof that there’s no reason to read informed commentary when you can rely on the broken English of a Pattaya service worker instead.
The king’s birthday speech
The King addressing the people said ‘I am a constitutional King and every elected government is my government’.
So said the King of Toyland.
He begged the mob that had been making trouble on the streets not to try and overthrow his elected government.
When the mob heard these wise words they went home and went about their normal business.
So the King and all the people lived happily ever after.
Thailand’s stark choice
Bangkok Pundit’s maths are pretty easy to debunk.
More likely the average person per sqm would be 2, not 3.
It would be 3 in parts but also quite a large percentage of the area would be 1 or even less per sqm.
So, on average, 2 is much more likely.
Secondly Ratchadamnoen Klang Avenue is not a square, empty box. There is street furniture, flower beds, lamp posts, letter and phones boxes etc etc and, of course the stage and the behind it etc. This would likely total at least 5th of the space – so we’re down to 40,000sqm and 80,000 protesters.
At Sanam Luang – half the space was occupied. Again Bangkok Pundit makes no calculation for the intrusion of fencing, stage areas, etc etc. So, we could take a fifth off the 59000sqm occupied by the protesters leaving us with 47200sqm.
Multiple 47200 by two and you get roughly 95000. Add that to the Ratchadamnoen Klang Avenue figure and it comes out at about 170k.
I very very much doubt the protest number went above 200k at its absolute maximum.
I’ve no idea why anyone would cite an anonymous blogger without at least attempting some form of fact check but Pundit’s calculations are very poor and not credible.
Questions about rule of law for DASSK
Blaming one lowly Hlutthaw member, for the events that has transpired due to:
1) Colonial Legacy
2) West useless careless acts
3) Natural and man made disasters
Surely illustrate where your heart is for MYANMAR beyond blaming the Chinese at every turn and disregarding the much dangerous looming Muslim vs Buddhist problem. a legacy of #1, exacerbated by #2 and #3.
Myanmar’s military: Money and guns
Good Try!
Charles F.
Another shameless way to suggest a country called Myanmar, ruled by a regime that have to rely on the “foreigners, mainly Chinese” to operate “the jets and helicopters”.
The source : “According to intercepted radio communications”
Hmm Will someone @ New Mandala please help?
1) Does that mean Charles F, is on to a reliable source.
2) Does that suggest the regime is so incompetent that deserve no quarter whatsoever, to the west justifiable useless careless policy and Charles F. assertion that Bamar lives are worth less that that of ethnic Brothers?
What about the ongoing Muslim onslaught that no one here at New Mandala ever heard Charles F. or Tocherian mentioned?
Thailand’s stark choice
The discussion of Democracy in Thailand must always include the understanding of the significance of vote buying. Just before one of the first Taksin democratic “wins” we were on a dive boat going out to sea from Pattaya. The captain an old local when asked was proud to explain he had already been paid to vote for Taksin. His daughter who lived in Bangkok hissed at him to keep quiet as the Farang would think him foolish and corrupt, so an argument followed, but there was no doubt that a very clever systematic process of buying votes was a major part of the Taksin approach to democracy and has been in every election since. (other parties are hardly innocent of this crime!)
This makes it very hard to treat Taksin as anything other than another in the long list of corrupt Prime Ministers Thailand has suffered from. Albeit one with deeper pockets, through his mobile phone empire.
But Taksin was and could be so much more, because he did identify the key issues which the majority of voters cared about, for example free or low cost health care, and did something about them. His governments did more to help poor people in some key ways than any other Thai Government, so I also have a problem with saying everything Taksin did is bad or wrong.
But look at his record, it is in stark contrast to the myth he has built. He has founded more failed businesses than businesses that have succeeded, he allegedly got his effective monopoly on mobile phones in the early days via corrupt means,and then spent years using this to generate his great wealth. Later it was more subtle, again allegedly he arranged for his company to have different and beneficial terms for his mobile phone license than his rivals.
Then he blatantly abused his position to issue decrees to change the law, and sell his company to the Singaporeans.
Is this the hero that people, including influential commentators want to see restored to power.
Lets hope that never happens to Thailand.
Oh and just in case you think I support Suthep, nothing could be further from the truth. The current nonsense of “peoples power” is simply ducking the much harder issues of eliminating corruption from politics, something few if any nations have had success with.
I believe Chuan and later Apisit were genuinely “clean” and honest Prime Ministers, but other elements in the Democrat party are at best on a par with the worst of Taksin and potentially not that good!
At no time have I seen the Democrats really focused on how to benefit the poor or lower middle class in Thailand, although I do believe at least in recent years they have had more respect for the law, and more respect for parliament than the current government or any of those Taksin governments have evidenced
Clearly Thailand needs a new force in politics, one around which clean politicians, and I think there are several, and other clean and maybe idealistic elements of Thai society can coalesce. Sad thing is there is no practical sign of such a force emerging.
Meanwhile bleating about democracy and respect for the will of the majority when democracy is submerged by corruption is not appropriate or helpful. No one knows how people would vote in a corruption free election because there has never been one.
I for one believe that the cleaner the election the less the domination of votes by one party will be seen, I think a large number of people who vote for Taksin and his proxies are in fact fed up with corruption and fed up with blatant cronyism, but really what option to they have!
A corruption free election today would I suspect return the current government but with a much reduced majority, and only if they promised no chance of “amnesties” to let Taksin avoid his court awarded punishment for corrupt activities, as determined by the courts when his proxies were in power.
Such a government would need to become honest over key issues like the rice subsidies, and the government finances, and would need to ensure parliament oversaw all government expenditure rather than hiding it in extra-parliamentary bodies due to the funding source being the Chinese government!
Transparency is the enemy of the corrupt, and they knows it. Look at how the Thai ranking in corruption and freedom of expression dropped during the years Taksin was in charge, Taksin on this evidence is no friend of real Democracy, it appears he regards it as a tool, much beloved of fools, that he can allegedly use to whitewash his manipulation of the country for his, his family and his cronies benefit.
Sadly it is hard to see a viable alternative at the moment and that is surely the saddest part of the Thai story today.
Questions about rule of law for DASSK
For Suu Kyi, “Rule of Law” simply means “Rule of the Lady”
Thailand’s stark choice
500,000 or even 600,000 is nothing in comparison to 15,000000 of red supporters
A royal intervention?
Which Khon performance you mentioning?