Unless the democrats succeed in creating a heartless state. Some of them are talking about 15 years with no elections while they can educate the rural poor in how to vote.
Recently too some democrats and their cohorts were calling for not only a government appointed to run the country for five years but, not to allow foreigners to enter the kingdom during that period.
In their opinion foreigner bring in ideas that result in negative thinking. Like democratic values and one-man one-vote and freedom of expression for everyone.
One sometimes wonders why Thailand ever signed the UN Declaration of Human Rights in the first place.
Thailand wants to be recognized as being a modern democracy but refuses to actually live up to the expectations of being one.
The democrats and their supporters still have one foot firmly planted in the feudal past. Voting democrat in Thailand will relegate most of the poor (farmers especial but working class too) to indentured servitude.
Bangkokians play while millions in Isan still eke out a daily survival minimum.
I think Andrew is right. People should vote DEmocrat. They have finally solved the problem that has been bedeviling Thailand for the past 80 years since the Absolute Monarchy was replaced by a rather tepid democracy. This is the solution. An Absolute Democracy:
“Mr Suthep last night also declared the formation of the “People’s Committee for Thailand’s Absolute Democracy under the Constitutional Monarchy.” He announced he would serve as its secretary-general.”
Q: What is the worst-case scenario for Thailand’s Democrat Party?
A: Thaksin suddenly dies from a heart attack today.
If Thaksin dies … the Democrat Party will have completely lost a “cause” by which to rally the so-called “middle-class” to their side. And no more reason to vote for the Democrat Party in any election.
This article is a very useful source of facts. I would be interested to know more about why Suthep and his cronies resigned from the Democrat Party. It suggests to me there is a growing split: Queen’s people versus King’s people?
Also, I am not sure that the group’s activities on the streets can be described as a success. If the Government keeps playing them with a dead bat, there are two possible outcomes: (i) the shouting and public nuisance die away, the whole thing fades with a whimper; (ii) frustration drives them into committing some atrocity that outrages almost everybody. If (ii) occurs their efforts may succeed only in shaping some kind of rapprochement between the Government and the more peace-loving (King’s?) faction of the establishment. Thaksin has been a good boy for a while now: I suspect that’s what he’s aiming at. A rapprochement would be a good outcome for Thailand too.
I went out last night and met up with a group of friends. It was Friday night and at our age we should probably know better but we had a great time and drank way too much and ended up on the subject of politics. This group is wealthy and educated. They own hotels, factories, apartment buildings…..
We have all lived long enough to have seen numerous governments and several coups and of course we are all sick of it. We also have in common that we all once believed Thaksin was the solution and the way out of this tedious cycle.
Everyone believes this is a clash of ideologies, the old against the new. Everybody sees the old as inept and supercilious. The new as dynamic and business driven. Both sides are seen as serving their own interests. Nobody sees this conflict as a struggle for democracy although it’s an impressive banner to argue under. The understanding is that this is a battle for two different styles of dictatorship. One that uses the historical methods of control and the other that brilliantly manipulates the political system.
We all once believed that Thaksin was going to change Thailand into a twenty-first century success story. Today we believe he is creating a dynasty that we will all have to kowtow to. We all feel we have reached an age where the expectation that the old guard might become more modern in their thinking if we just wait a few years is unbearable because we don’t have the luxury of time any longer.
The two camps in this clash of ideologies may have already forfeited the credibility to be in charge. The days of the inscrutable statesman only seen briefly on the television as he darts between one giant building and another are over. The puerile whining and insult throwing is a new phenomenon and has changed the people’s perception of their leaders forever.
The consensus of opinion is anything is better than violent civil conflict. We don’t care which group lies to us anymore, we don’t care which side of the ideologies robs us, as long as we can get back to work and our children can go to school in safety. This is a sad state of affairs but, in reality it is what we used to think before the rhetoric.
You can look at this from one perception and believe that your side has all the answers. Or you accept that in the same way there is no credible opposition there is also no credible democratically elected government. Unless you think any old unqualified relative or godfather type will do as long as they do what one oligarch wants.
We all want democracy but we don’t know what it looks like because we’ve never seen it. It isn’t the Democrat party but it can’t be an entire political system built around the wishes of one man either.
Yes, true that UMNO had instigated violence against PR and its supporters, but surely not on this scale and intensity.
Other than May 13, 1969 — UMNO has not resorted to what the Democrats are doing.
Of Course, the comparison is not correct (Malaysia is a hegemonic one party state until 2008) but just the kind of violence that occurs in Thai politics (the number of coups, the number of deaths, etc.) surely has no parallels with Malaysian politics.
if the Democrats bring in DE-CENTRALISATION, along the lines suggested by former PM Anand – then YES : it is indeed the time to vote Democrat, by a landslide.
Politics in Malaysia, at times, can be rough. On the other hand, you are partly right. Remember that the Thai press is more independent than the Malaysian press and there are more political parties in Thailand than in Malaysia.
The overarching dominance of UMNO in Malaysia ‘dissuades’ frequent and large-scale public protest, but not because many Malaysians don’t want to. Thailand is more ‘open’ than Malaysia in several ways, thus Thais may feel somewhat more free to protest than their counterparts in Malaysia (who might wish they could more often and more vocally).
I would not say Malaysia is necessarily more
civilised than Thailand, nor that Malaysian politics is more civil than in Thailand. Only that Thailand has a greater multitude of political parties and independent journalists, and this leads to more opinions and more protests, at times. Both countries have civilised and uncivilised people, and even a few politicians (not many) that are both civil and civilised. Both countries run the gamut, when it comes to corruption, misuse of jurisprudence, ethnic and cultural issues, and income gaps between the affluent and the not so affluent.
With people like Ibrahim Ali and Mahathir, you really can’t say that Malaysian politics
is more civil and equitable than in Thailand.
Suthep and AV have little to lose, they can avoid being tried for murder, which is currently the charges aid against them, only if they topple the government.
If they fail they might end up behind bars where they belong.
The MSM has played readers like a fiddle. Todays 300 red shirts taunted and attacked 3,000 peace loving antigovernment protestors.
Ref Peter’s words-of-wisdom regarding possible dissolution of the Democrat Party – this would be a good thing for Thailand. Conservative factions could then form a party representing their interests without the burden of having to be led by criminals and draft-dodgers.
It was a true pleasure watching the live streaming broadcast of Aung San Suu Kyi’s ANU conferral ceremony today.
Thein Sein also received two honorary PhDs at approximately the same time (9am) today at his presidential palace in Nay Pyi Taw.
One in Public Administration from Mae Fah Luang University, Chiang Rai, Thailand, and one in IT from Naraesuan University, Pitsanuok, Thailand.
While the top global universities are praising and acclaiming Aung Sang Suu Kyi for her efforts towards democracy, human rights and peaceful protest, several Thai universities have done their best to applaud his reforms.
Does the former top ranking Thai military brass that comprises the Boards of these Thai universities have anything to do with their decisions to honour Myanmar’s president? Or is it a simple marketing stunt for more international students?
The best check and balance is to create a decent opposition party whom ordinary Thais feel they can vote for.
The Democrats are not that.
Is that Thaksin’s or the oppositions fault?
The opposition have had over 12years since Thaksin was first elected to create a democratic opposition to Thaksin yet they remain wholly committed to anti-democratic measures. 12years. That’s longer than the amount of time Margaret Thatcher was PM and is a full US presidential term longer than George W Bush served in his office. 12years and they are still calling for coups and still calling for mobs to overthrow elected regimes. And, somehow, it’s the party that does get democratically elected’s fault? I thought the Dems all went to Oxford and Cambridge and were super bright? Even we posters here could fashion on the bag of an envelope a better more democratic strategy to oppose Thaksin than what these arrogant hubristic idiots have cobbled together in over a decade!
And yes, stage street protests, wage social media and press campaigns, organise all manner of extra-parliamentary to Thaksin but it simply MUST be committed to democracy.
At the moment the opposition are not committed to even the most basic democratic idea of the people electing their own government.
And how on earth can you create democratic checks and balances with a regime that is imposed using violent force?
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Time to vote Democrat!
Unless the democrats succeed in creating a heartless state. Some of them are talking about 15 years with no elections while they can educate the rural poor in how to vote.
Recently too some democrats and their cohorts were calling for not only a government appointed to run the country for five years but, not to allow foreigners to enter the kingdom during that period.
In their opinion foreigner bring in ideas that result in negative thinking. Like democratic values and one-man one-vote and freedom of expression for everyone.
One sometimes wonders why Thailand ever signed the UN Declaration of Human Rights in the first place.
Thailand wants to be recognized as being a modern democracy but refuses to actually live up to the expectations of being one.
Time to vote Democrat!
The democrats and their supporters still have one foot firmly planted in the feudal past. Voting democrat in Thailand will relegate most of the poor (farmers especial but working class too) to indentured servitude.
Bangkokians play while millions in Isan still eke out a daily survival minimum.
Time to vote Democrat!
I think Andrew is right. People should vote DEmocrat. They have finally solved the problem that has been bedeviling Thailand for the past 80 years since the Absolute Monarchy was replaced by a rather tepid democracy. This is the solution. An Absolute Democracy:
“Mr Suthep last night also declared the formation of the “People’s Committee for Thailand’s Absolute Democracy under the Constitutional Monarchy.” He announced he would serve as its secretary-general.”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/382361/suthep-declares-people-revolt
Time to vote Democrat!
Thaksin won’t die from a heart attack, Thailand will…..
Time to vote Democrat!
Q: What is the worst-case scenario for Thailand’s Democrat Party?
A: Thaksin suddenly dies from a heart attack today.
If Thaksin dies … the Democrat Party will have completely lost a “cause” by which to rally the so-called “middle-class” to their side. And no more reason to vote for the Democrat Party in any election.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
This article is a very useful source of facts. I would be interested to know more about why Suthep and his cronies resigned from the Democrat Party. It suggests to me there is a growing split: Queen’s people versus King’s people?
Also, I am not sure that the group’s activities on the streets can be described as a success. If the Government keeps playing them with a dead bat, there are two possible outcomes: (i) the shouting and public nuisance die away, the whole thing fades with a whimper; (ii) frustration drives them into committing some atrocity that outrages almost everybody. If (ii) occurs their efforts may succeed only in shaping some kind of rapprochement between the Government and the more peace-loving (King’s?) faction of the establishment. Thaksin has been a good boy for a while now: I suspect that’s what he’s aiming at. A rapprochement would be a good outcome for Thailand too.
What is to be done in Thailand?
I went out last night and met up with a group of friends. It was Friday night and at our age we should probably know better but we had a great time and drank way too much and ended up on the subject of politics. This group is wealthy and educated. They own hotels, factories, apartment buildings…..
We have all lived long enough to have seen numerous governments and several coups and of course we are all sick of it. We also have in common that we all once believed Thaksin was the solution and the way out of this tedious cycle.
Everyone believes this is a clash of ideologies, the old against the new. Everybody sees the old as inept and supercilious. The new as dynamic and business driven. Both sides are seen as serving their own interests. Nobody sees this conflict as a struggle for democracy although it’s an impressive banner to argue under. The understanding is that this is a battle for two different styles of dictatorship. One that uses the historical methods of control and the other that brilliantly manipulates the political system.
We all once believed that Thaksin was going to change Thailand into a twenty-first century success story. Today we believe he is creating a dynasty that we will all have to kowtow to. We all feel we have reached an age where the expectation that the old guard might become more modern in their thinking if we just wait a few years is unbearable because we don’t have the luxury of time any longer.
The two camps in this clash of ideologies may have already forfeited the credibility to be in charge. The days of the inscrutable statesman only seen briefly on the television as he darts between one giant building and another are over. The puerile whining and insult throwing is a new phenomenon and has changed the people’s perception of their leaders forever.
The consensus of opinion is anything is better than violent civil conflict. We don’t care which group lies to us anymore, we don’t care which side of the ideologies robs us, as long as we can get back to work and our children can go to school in safety. This is a sad state of affairs but, in reality it is what we used to think before the rhetoric.
You can look at this from one perception and believe that your side has all the answers. Or you accept that in the same way there is no credible opposition there is also no credible democratically elected government. Unless you think any old unqualified relative or godfather type will do as long as they do what one oligarch wants.
We all want democracy but we don’t know what it looks like because we’ve never seen it. It isn’t the Democrat party but it can’t be an entire political system built around the wishes of one man either.
We all have families and we are all worried.
Time to vote Democrat!
Just in terms of the brutality Peter.
Yes, true that UMNO had instigated violence against PR and its supporters, but surely not on this scale and intensity.
Other than May 13, 1969 — UMNO has not resorted to what the Democrats are doing.
Of Course, the comparison is not correct (Malaysia is a hegemonic one party state until 2008) but just the kind of violence that occurs in Thai politics (the number of coups, the number of deaths, etc.) surely has no parallels with Malaysian politics.
Time to vote Democrat!
if the Democrats bring in DE-CENTRALISATION, along the lines suggested by former PM Anand – then YES : it is indeed the time to vote Democrat, by a landslide.
Time to vote Democrat!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm…I am not so sure Greg.
Politics in Malaysia, at times, can be rough. On the other hand, you are partly right. Remember that the Thai press is more independent than the Malaysian press and there are more political parties in Thailand than in Malaysia.
The overarching dominance of UMNO in Malaysia ‘dissuades’ frequent and large-scale public protest, but not because many Malaysians don’t want to. Thailand is more ‘open’ than Malaysia in several ways, thus Thais may feel somewhat more free to protest than their counterparts in Malaysia (who might wish they could more often and more vocally).
I would not say Malaysia is necessarily more
civilised than Thailand, nor that Malaysian politics is more civil than in Thailand. Only that Thailand has a greater multitude of political parties and independent journalists, and this leads to more opinions and more protests, at times. Both countries have civilised and uncivilised people, and even a few politicians (not many) that are both civil and civilised. Both countries run the gamut, when it comes to corruption, misuse of jurisprudence, ethnic and cultural issues, and income gaps between the affluent and the not so affluent.
With people like Ibrahim Ali and Mahathir, you really can’t say that Malaysian politics
is more civil and equitable than in Thailand.
Time to vote Democrat!
I must say that when I look at the other countries in the region, but especially Thailand, Malaysia is not so bad after all.
Thailand — for all the talk of being civilised, politie, cultured — the politics is really very primitive.
The Malay/Muslim ethnocrats in Malaysia are pussycats compared to what Thailand has to offer.
Review of Modern Thai Buddhism and Buddhadasa
[…] Review of Modern Thai Buddhism and Buddhadasa […]
Time to vote Democrat!
The Democrats appear to falling further and further into the abyss.
Now Yingluck’s 11year old son is being targeted.
http://asiaprovocateur.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/a-new-low-is-reached-are-democrat-party.html
Time to vote Democrat!
No. Obviously. And that’s an even bigger part of the problem.
Time to vote Democrat!
Suthep and AV have little to lose, they can avoid being tried for murder, which is currently the charges aid against them, only if they topple the government.
If they fail they might end up behind bars where they belong.
The MSM has played readers like a fiddle. Todays 300 red shirts taunted and attacked 3,000 peace loving antigovernment protestors.
Suthep belongs in a mental institution
Time to vote Democrat!
Ref Peter’s words-of-wisdom regarding possible dissolution of the Democrat Party – this would be a good thing for Thailand. Conservative factions could then form a party representing their interests without the burden of having to be led by criminals and draft-dodgers.
Burma’s next president
It was a true pleasure watching the live streaming broadcast of Aung San Suu Kyi’s ANU conferral ceremony today.
Thein Sein also received two honorary PhDs at approximately the same time (9am) today at his presidential palace in Nay Pyi Taw.
One in Public Administration from Mae Fah Luang University, Chiang Rai, Thailand, and one in IT from Naraesuan University, Pitsanuok, Thailand.
While the top global universities are praising and acclaiming Aung Sang Suu Kyi for her efforts towards democracy, human rights and peaceful protest, several Thai universities have done their best to applaud his reforms.
Does the former top ranking Thai military brass that comprises the Boards of these Thai universities have anything to do with their decisions to honour Myanmar’s president? Or is it a simple marketing stunt for more international students?
Time to vote Democrat!
Or . . . a massive loss for the Democrats will strongly motive the party to change leadership and policies.
But lets not blame it all on politicians, but on the people that follow them, too . . .
Assault on Nick Nostitz
“By rejecting amnesty and risking lengthy prison time, Abhisit and Suthep show they are the true heroes of democracy”.
Didn’t Voranai once writing an article making the same claim?
Maybe Voranai is Carla? 😉
What is to be done in Thailand?
The best check and balance is to create a decent opposition party whom ordinary Thais feel they can vote for.
The Democrats are not that.
Is that Thaksin’s or the oppositions fault?
The opposition have had over 12years since Thaksin was first elected to create a democratic opposition to Thaksin yet they remain wholly committed to anti-democratic measures. 12years. That’s longer than the amount of time Margaret Thatcher was PM and is a full US presidential term longer than George W Bush served in his office. 12years and they are still calling for coups and still calling for mobs to overthrow elected regimes. And, somehow, it’s the party that does get democratically elected’s fault? I thought the Dems all went to Oxford and Cambridge and were super bright? Even we posters here could fashion on the bag of an envelope a better more democratic strategy to oppose Thaksin than what these arrogant hubristic idiots have cobbled together in over a decade!
And yes, stage street protests, wage social media and press campaigns, organise all manner of extra-parliamentary to Thaksin but it simply MUST be committed to democracy.
At the moment the opposition are not committed to even the most basic democratic idea of the people electing their own government.
And how on earth can you create democratic checks and balances with a regime that is imposed using violent force?