The anti-Islamic rhetoric here is interesting. It seems we have forgotten of that much of the conflict in the world cross borders and are not dominated by a single ideological group. Islam for that matter as some have clearly pointed out, contradicts itself … if one only saw Islam as a religion (i.e. a spiritual institution). But from what we have here, Islam can also be ideological-a source for political inspiration-be it anti-colonialism, anti-authoritarian regime, a source for idealism, etc. What I have to say about both Woo’s and Troy’s article is that statistics read in such a fashion reflect more of the authors biases rather than as a useful tool to understand and address some of the issues associated with ethnic or religion divides. I would think Malaysia’s problems were better understood in class analysis. But to turn a survey on religion and violence that clearly does not say the majority of Malaysian Muslims agree to the use of force (i wonder what response would come if the same questions were asked to Israelis, Americans, Indian Hindus, etc. on the use of force to protect religion) and to read ambiguity to one’s purpose is not just weak analysis or attempts at sensationalizing is deceitful.
US lawmakers support pivot strategy, look to Asian allies to build military capabilities
тАв Article by: MATTHEW PENNINGTON , Associated Press
тАв Updated: October 29, 2013
WASHINGTON – Lawmakers voiced bipartisan support Tuesday for the Obama administration’s strategic pivot to Asia but stressed the need for partner nations to strengthen their military capabilities and contribute more to their own defense.
Members of the House Armed Services Committee plan to step up scrutiny of U.S. military policy in the fast-growing region, where despite budget pressure, Washington wants to increase its presence as it draws down forces in Afghanistan.
Lawmakers said they plan a wide-ranging examination of U.S. force deployments and how to optimize security relationships. They plan a series of five hearings between now and early 2014, mostly focused on the growing military power of China. Topics will include its capabilities in space, the modernization of its navy and air force, and maritime disputes.
The lawmakers said part of the committee’s intent is to explain to congressional colleagues and the American public about the strategic importance of the U.S. remaining engaged in the Asia-Pacific, where it has been the dominant force since World War II. Some in Asia, however, are voicing doubts about Washington’s staying power in the region as it grapples with political divisions at home and crises in the Mideast.
“The biggest thing for us is presence. If we have presence there it’s the greatest stability you can have in that region,” said Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., one of six lawmakers briefing reporters on the upcoming hearings.
Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., said the committee would look at how the U.S. can guarantee its alliance commitments with nations like South Korea and Japan, while building on its many other relationships in the region.
“One of the keys to making this work is partner capacity,” he said, citing as an example U.S. counterinsurgency support for Philippine forces fighting Islamic rebels. “What other options are out there to build capacity in forces so it doesn’t all fall on us?”
But Smith also advocated cooperation with China, which views the U.S. pivot as an attempt to encircle and crimp its emerging power. Smith said China should be viewed as a partner that could work with the U.S. on issues including North Korea and the transition in Afghanistan.
Committee chair Howard McKeon, R-Cal., sounded less accommodating.
He supported a more active role for Japan’s military in response to assertive behavior by China. Japan has the region’s second strongest military after China but it remains constrained by its pacifist constitution.
“It’s incumbent upon us to do all we can to build up and strengthen our partners so they can bring more to the table when they are needed,” McKeon said.
That risks tension not just with China but South Korea. Both those nations nurse bitter memories of Japan’s wartime atrocities and colonialist expansion in the first half of the 20th century.
Rep. Colleen Hanabusa, D-Hawaii, said the U.S. needs to recognize that the historical conflicts between its allies like South Korea and Japan, often can’t be solved by Washington.
“They have got to, on their own, decide that this is either a conflict they can park on the side for a little or resolve,” she said. “We are not going to be able to resolve history.”
I fail to see how the figures I quoted directly from the Pew Center’s report are “just
as, if not more, open to statistical questions of bias”. I have identified quite clearly the specific areas where I think Woo’s analysis could have been improved but I did not say that his figures were biased as such – in fact, I noted that the more rigorous analysis yielded similar substantive conclusions. If you think that the Pew Center’s research is biased in some way, perhaps you could highlight some specific flaws in their methodology. The fact that you disagree with their findings is not sufficient reason to discount them.
I do agree that numbers (including yours
which are not believable) detract from the
main point. But your main argument revolves around the numbers. You can’t defend the
statistical integrity of the numerical analyses and then say they are not the most
important part (which I happen to agree with). Which is it ?
My article is a discussion of Woo’s statistical analysis, which I was asked to write as a result of criticisms that had been levelled at his analysis. As such, it necessarily focuses on the numbers. What I meant by the comment you are referring to is that Woo’s article is not primarily a statistical one and so my criticisms do not necessarily detract from the substance of his article.
KUALA LUMPUR — Malaysia and China are to engage in joint military exercises beginning next year, nine years after having signed a memorandum of understanding on defence cooperation.
Defence Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein, who is on his maiden visit to Beijing following his appointment to the post in May, said the exercises would encompass the three disciplines of land, sea and air.
He said the holding of the exercises was one of the matters agreed to during his meeting with China’s Defence Minister Gen Chang Wanquan on Tuesday to forge a more comprehensive strategic cooperation between the two countries.
“Both sides agreed to foster greater cooperation in defence, particularly in holding joint exercises, exchange of military personnel, establishing cooperation in the defence industry and fighting terrorism and transnational crime,” he said in a statement sent to Bernama from Beijing.
Hishammuddin’s visit was aimed at strengthening bilateral defence relations besides following up on the state visit of China’s President Xi Jinping to Malaysia from Oct 3 to 5.
Malaysia had officially established defence cooperation with China in 2005 but it had hitherto been confined to exchange of visits and education.
Hishammuddin said his visit also coincided with the 40th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Malaysia and China, which would be celebrated next year.
He said he had invited Gen Chang to visit the Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) base in Teluk Sepanggar, Sabah, to jointly launch the establishment of direct contact between Malaysia’s Naval Region Command 2 (Mawilla 2) and China’s Southern Sea Fleet Command.
Hishammuddin also met with several of China’s top leaders, including Vice Chairman 1 of the Central Military Commission, Gen Fan Changlong.
He was taken on a visit to the headquarters of the Southern Sea Fleet Command in Zhanjiang and the Guangzhou Military Region, which is one of the seven military administrative regions in China.
“It is hoped that this visit will enable Malaysia-China defence ties to expand and encompass other fields and consolidate interaction between the two countries,” said Hishammuddin. -BERNAMA-
I think it is not too wise to quote coups from wikipedia as I have read the causes to one of the coup does not really reflected in one of the literature I read, ‘a history of Thailand’ by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaicit. CMIIW.
“Half of more of Muslims in most countries surveyed say that suicide bombing and other acts of violence that target civilians can never be justified in the name of Islam. This opinion is most prevalent in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%). Majorities or pluralities share this unequivocal rejection of religious-inspired violence in Malaysia (58% never justified), Turkey (54%), Jordan (53%), and Senegal (50%). In Malaysia, however, roughly a quarter of Muslims (27%) take the view that attacks on citizens are sometimes or often justified.”
You criticize Woo’s statistical analysis
and then quote figures above that are just
as, if not more, open to statistical questions of bias. I do not believe the
numbers quoted above.
I do agree that numbers (including yours
which are not believable) detract from the
main point. But your main argument revolves around the numbers. You can’t defend the
statistical integrity of the numerical analyses and then say they are not the most
important part (which I happen to agree with). Which is it ?
It is not that every Malay or Indonesian
bombs Jakarta, Bali and Aceh. It is that
when they do bomb, they do so in the name
of Allah. It is not that every Malay agrees
with Ibrahim Ali, but the ones that do proclaim exclusivity of the use of Allah and
the mandated rights of Malays and the Malaysian government and many Malays support this (read Harakah, for example).
It is not that every Nigerian supports Boko Haram in northern Nigeria, but the government does nothing to stop it and Boko Haram is spreading among the Hausa-Fulani in nothern
Nigeria. Pew does not poll this information.
Syria is being destroyed by a member of a sect of Islam (Alawite) that most Sunnis don’t even accept as true Islam. Is that ironic ? Well, it would be if thousands of
people were not being killed. Assad claims to
be both secular and a devout Alawite. What
nonsense. The Ba’ath Parties and their military surrogates in Iraq and Syria (both wings of the Party) have killed around 100,000 people. That has been documented. Yes, you might find an Iraqi or Syrian that abhors violence, so he or she says.
It is not that all Javanese massacre Ahamdiyya minorities in Indonesia, but that the Indonesian police and many average Indonesian stand by and do nothing when people’s heads are bashed in. This has
been reported. Do the NGOs in Indonesia
agree with this ? No, they don’t. But most
Indonesians are not members of NGOs.
“89 % of Pakistanis oppose violence,” but at least 89 % of Pakistanis agree with the bombing of Shi’ite mosques in Pakistan, opposed the killing of Usama bin Laden, and support Jihad for Islam. Have you been to Pakistan ? Some Pakistani Imams in London call for Jihad. Maybe if the Anglican Church did the same, they would stop losing adherents. But probably not. Since the Church
deacons and archbishops don’t advocate violence.
Jordan is a major supplier of terrorists.
Jordanians, as well as Saudis, were involved in the planning and execution of 9/11. Tunisians participate in the Maghrebi wing
of Al Qaeda. Erodogan of Turkey has reversed
all of Ataturk’s secular reforms. Erdogan is also a public anti-Semite (as Mahathir was; see below).
The Arab World is in turmoil, led by corrupt governments and the extremist Muslim Brotherhood is the most popular organization in much of the Arab World. Iran is led by Islamic Fascist anti-Semitic extremists who want to wipe Israel of the planet in violation of UN rules prohibiting one member nation from calling for violence against another; no surprise, the UN doesn’t follow its own rules. Iran remains a member
in good standing. Special treatment for Iran, but not Israel or the US.
Mr. Woo’s claims are not sensationalist. How many of the countries that you discuss have you visited ? In keeping with cultural and
moral equivalency, you make the assumption
global Muslims provide the same response to different people doing the polling. Polling should always be done in the native language by a native.
Islamic governments everywhere are becoming
more conservative, including in “moderate”
Malaysia, Indonesia and Turkey. I have seen
this from first-hand experience. It is not
clear that a majority of Muslims anywhere
are concerned about religious violence. The
Quran itself advocates avoidance of contact with non-Muslims. When the mainspring of a belief system contains admonitions to promote Jihad (internal and external) then one must (as a very few Muslim scholars have) examine the source of belief. Islamic violence is not ascribed to every Muslim, true, but it is widespread and occurs in every Muslim country. The same cannot be said for Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity, where violence does sometimes happen, but it is not initiated globally on foreign territory. Hindus don’t bomb Jakarta. Christians don’t bomb Pakistan. Jews don’t bomb Tunisia. Buddhists don’t bomb Kuala Lumpur. Jains don’t bomb Senegal. Taoists don’t bomb Nigeria.
Each of these countries, I have made reference to, has produced indigenous extremists of whatever number, and these extremists do not recognize national borders. Thus, Islamic violence takes place in both Islamic and non-Islamic countries. This sets Islam apart. This unique quality
of Islam is a qualitative factor that is relevant; the quantitative factor does not
change the innate nature and cause of the violence. I am talking about Islam over the course of history from the 6th Century (please don’t mention the “Golden Age” because it wasn’t that golden). The Crusades
are over. Christianity reformed itself.
Whatever differences there are between Israelis and Palestinians, there are Israeli-Arabs in the Knesset that routinely, with the
permission of the Israeli Supreme Court, call
for the destruction of the state they are
a citizen of. This democracy does not exist in the Muslim world, even if there are Muslims who might advocate it.
Not only is UMNO encouraging Malay extremism
but it creates an environment within which Malay nationalism and Islamic extremism is
acceptable. PAS only exacerbates this situation. I might mention that what you read and hear in English is not necessarily the same as what you read and hear in Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia (or Arabic or Farsi or Urdu).
Finally, I really need give only one example.
At the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) meeting in KL in 2003, when then
PM Dr. Mahathir said Jews are responsible
for all the problems in the Islamic world
(Yes, I read Bahasa Malaysia and I have the
transcript), ALL members of the OIC (which means ALL Islamic countries, because they all attended) representatives gave Mahathir a ten-minute standing ovation. That speaks volumes about the attitudes of the Islamic world, with or without your numbers or Mr. Woo’s numbers. This might make some people uncomfortable, but this incident happened and it means something qualitatively important that a Pew Center statistical sample will not address. I do not recall any Muslim countering Mahathir’s words, at least in print.
Before accusing me of making stupid comparisons, you might want to review your understanding of Central limit theorem.
The reason so many people get away with blatant misuse of statistics is that a great many people really don’t understand statistical models and inferences.
This is an excellent article and a very important issue. I have just returned form India where we are seeing dramatic increases in diabetes and NCD risk factors. in the 1990s India was an emerging market for industries selling unhealthy products but now it is a well established market. One can only guess that this is the way Burma will go and the impacts on NCDs might be similar. nathan
He means zero tolerance for laundering drug money. Just go ask Stephen Lo, son of the late Hsinghan Lo, the heroin drug warlord of Burma. I’m sure civilised Burmese people like them don’t chew betel nuts or gum. They have rich souls!
Do you mean Zero tolerance for bad behaviors, Ruffians and otherwise all criminal activities as defined by LKY?
Only if you understand or envious of NOT experience the disgusting behavior of pre-LKY ‘spitting’, ‘cussing’ and being in constant fear of being pick pocketed or vandalized will you described Singapore as soulless.
I think the larger question is what happens to Singapore post-Lee’s family influence. As it is the Lee-Kwa-Ho triparite’s tentacles on Singapore will continue and as long as the game plays on, all the parasites will continue to feed and get fat in the name it public service.
However what happens to Singapore when LKY passes on, will depend on your view whether he is, using the automobile as an analogy, a) the steering wheel b) the engine.c) the tyres d) the fuel e) the rear view mirror d) the spoiler e) the back seat driver
Whatever your answer is Singapore will be a well run machine although corruption will definitely increase. It will be more like temasek inc then a nation. The technocrats and bureaucrats will continue to apply their excellent business and management skill albeit soulless.
With the ratio of old to new citizens coming to 50%, it’s already a new creature and if you look at the workforce it probably has reached if not surpass 50% and in the lucrative financial industry it certainly feels like 99%.
LKY has clinically disinfected Singapore till it is now soulless. The men and women that leads that country are soulless people.
Singapore after the late 80’s has been dying. It looks like midlife crisis but it is near death. The soul of the country has left even before the founder’s.
1) Thank you for reminding academics that a clear short concept that is easily grasped by all s better than the razzle dazzle time wasters to impress.
2) Thank you for reminding that despite the complexity of some subject, boiling down to its most fundamentals and using simple terms will inspire more to participate than keeping those subject seem unreachable to all.
Take for example:
The use and abuse of the word Democracy by almost everyone here at New Mandala.
This word in it complexity seem to confer an aura of legitimacy to the user why stating nothing specific.
Using simple terms such as ‘Freedom/Liberty’ ‘Dignity’ to qualify Democracy will be so much more less academic that any body can grasp.
Thank you again for making this video available at New Mandala.
You are correct. I accidentally transposed the total percent of German Christians with German Protestants. However, my point remains. Instead of acknowledging that you have misinterpreted Mr. Cohen’s and my observations, and instead of engaging the actual premises of my counter-argument, you continue to merely obfuscate with non sequitur after non sequitur concerning your uneducated opinions of Anglo-American Christianity.
Indeed, the irony remains in that you falsely accuse your opponents of making “blanket statements” about Buddhism and Islam, while at the same time making outrageous, offensive, and unsupported blanket statements about Anglo-American Protestantism.
If you will remember, my original observation was that your bigotry against religion in general warps, into absurdity, your viewpoint concerning the reality that differing religious ideologies possess differing viewpoints as to the morality of religious violence. Your statements in this thread have lent support to my observation more eloquently than I ever could have.
Not premature. I could feel the palpable drumbeat, the oohs and sighs that yes! Thaksin should be home soon. Fully amnestied by democractic parliament, thank you. And will be fully recompensed, plus interest of course, for the Bht 46 billion something that those ‘undemocractic minds’ seized from him by force.
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Overstating Islamic extremism – a response
The anti-Islamic rhetoric here is interesting. It seems we have forgotten of that much of the conflict in the world cross borders and are not dominated by a single ideological group. Islam for that matter as some have clearly pointed out, contradicts itself … if one only saw Islam as a religion (i.e. a spiritual institution). But from what we have here, Islam can also be ideological-a source for political inspiration-be it anti-colonialism, anti-authoritarian regime, a source for idealism, etc. What I have to say about both Woo’s and Troy’s article is that statistics read in such a fashion reflect more of the authors biases rather than as a useful tool to understand and address some of the issues associated with ethnic or religion divides. I would think Malaysia’s problems were better understood in class analysis. But to turn a survey on religion and violence that clearly does not say the majority of Malaysian Muslims agree to the use of force (i wonder what response would come if the same questions were asked to Israelis, Americans, Indian Hindus, etc. on the use of force to protect religion) and to read ambiguity to one’s purpose is not just weak analysis or attempts at sensationalizing is deceitful.
Malaysia-US and Malaysia-China relations
US lawmakers support pivot strategy, look to Asian allies to build military capabilities
тАв Article by: MATTHEW PENNINGTON , Associated Press
тАв Updated: October 29, 2013
WASHINGTON – Lawmakers voiced bipartisan support Tuesday for the Obama administration’s strategic pivot to Asia but stressed the need for partner nations to strengthen their military capabilities and contribute more to their own defense.
Members of the House Armed Services Committee plan to step up scrutiny of U.S. military policy in the fast-growing region, where despite budget pressure, Washington wants to increase its presence as it draws down forces in Afghanistan.
Lawmakers said they plan a wide-ranging examination of U.S. force deployments and how to optimize security relationships. They plan a series of five hearings between now and early 2014, mostly focused on the growing military power of China. Topics will include its capabilities in space, the modernization of its navy and air force, and maritime disputes.
The lawmakers said part of the committee’s intent is to explain to congressional colleagues and the American public about the strategic importance of the U.S. remaining engaged in the Asia-Pacific, where it has been the dominant force since World War II. Some in Asia, however, are voicing doubts about Washington’s staying power in the region as it grapples with political divisions at home and crises in the Mideast.
“The biggest thing for us is presence. If we have presence there it’s the greatest stability you can have in that region,” said Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., one of six lawmakers briefing reporters on the upcoming hearings.
Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., said the committee would look at how the U.S. can guarantee its alliance commitments with nations like South Korea and Japan, while building on its many other relationships in the region.
“One of the keys to making this work is partner capacity,” he said, citing as an example U.S. counterinsurgency support for Philippine forces fighting Islamic rebels. “What other options are out there to build capacity in forces so it doesn’t all fall on us?”
But Smith also advocated cooperation with China, which views the U.S. pivot as an attempt to encircle and crimp its emerging power. Smith said China should be viewed as a partner that could work with the U.S. on issues including North Korea and the transition in Afghanistan.
Committee chair Howard McKeon, R-Cal., sounded less accommodating.
He supported a more active role for Japan’s military in response to assertive behavior by China. Japan has the region’s second strongest military after China but it remains constrained by its pacifist constitution.
“It’s incumbent upon us to do all we can to build up and strengthen our partners so they can bring more to the table when they are needed,” McKeon said.
That risks tension not just with China but South Korea. Both those nations nurse bitter memories of Japan’s wartime atrocities and colonialist expansion in the first half of the 20th century.
Rep. Colleen Hanabusa, D-Hawaii, said the U.S. needs to recognize that the historical conflicts between its allies like South Korea and Japan, often can’t be solved by Washington.
“They have got to, on their own, decide that this is either a conflict they can park on the side for a little or resolve,” she said. “We are not going to be able to resolve history.”
Malaysia-US and Malaysia-China relations
Thanks Geoff.
I’d be interested to know what the US thinks of this especially with its pivot in Asia.
Overstating Islamic extremism – a response
I fail to see how the figures I quoted directly from the Pew Center’s report are “just
as, if not more, open to statistical questions of bias”. I have identified quite clearly the specific areas where I think Woo’s analysis could have been improved but I did not say that his figures were biased as such – in fact, I noted that the more rigorous analysis yielded similar substantive conclusions. If you think that the Pew Center’s research is biased in some way, perhaps you could highlight some specific flaws in their methodology. The fact that you disagree with their findings is not sufficient reason to discount them.
My article is a discussion of Woo’s statistical analysis, which I was asked to write as a result of criticisms that had been levelled at his analysis. As such, it necessarily focuses on the numbers. What I meant by the comment you are referring to is that Woo’s article is not primarily a statistical one and so my criticisms do not necessarily detract from the substance of his article.
Malaysia-US and Malaysia-China relations
KUALA LUMPUR — Malaysia and China are to engage in joint military exercises beginning next year, nine years after having signed a memorandum of understanding on defence cooperation.
Defence Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein, who is on his maiden visit to Beijing following his appointment to the post in May, said the exercises would encompass the three disciplines of land, sea and air.
He said the holding of the exercises was one of the matters agreed to during his meeting with China’s Defence Minister Gen Chang Wanquan on Tuesday to forge a more comprehensive strategic cooperation between the two countries.
“Both sides agreed to foster greater cooperation in defence, particularly in holding joint exercises, exchange of military personnel, establishing cooperation in the defence industry and fighting terrorism and transnational crime,” he said in a statement sent to Bernama from Beijing.
Hishammuddin’s visit was aimed at strengthening bilateral defence relations besides following up on the state visit of China’s President Xi Jinping to Malaysia from Oct 3 to 5.
Malaysia had officially established defence cooperation with China in 2005 but it had hitherto been confined to exchange of visits and education.
Hishammuddin said his visit also coincided with the 40th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Malaysia and China, which would be celebrated next year.
He said he had invited Gen Chang to visit the Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) base in Teluk Sepanggar, Sabah, to jointly launch the establishment of direct contact between Malaysia’s Naval Region Command 2 (Mawilla 2) and China’s Southern Sea Fleet Command.
Hishammuddin also met with several of China’s top leaders, including Vice Chairman 1 of the Central Military Commission, Gen Fan Changlong.
He was taken on a visit to the headquarters of the Southern Sea Fleet Command in Zhanjiang and the Guangzhou Military Region, which is one of the seven military administrative regions in China.
“It is hoped that this visit will enable Malaysia-China defence ties to expand and encompass other fields and consolidate interaction between the two countries,” said Hishammuddin. -BERNAMA-
Malaysia-US and Malaysia-China relations
I’ve given the reasons why I think Malaysia will not allow any Chinese military presence on Malaysian soil over at The Strategist.
http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/reader-response-chinese-military-bases-in-malaysia/
Counting Thailand’s coups
I think it is not too wise to quote coups from wikipedia as I have read the causes to one of the coup does not really reflected in one of the literature I read, ‘a history of Thailand’ by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaicit. CMIIW.
Thanks
Overstating Islamic extremism – a response
Troy,
“Half of more of Muslims in most countries surveyed say that suicide bombing and other acts of violence that target civilians can never be justified in the name of Islam. This opinion is most prevalent in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%). Majorities or pluralities share this unequivocal rejection of religious-inspired violence in Malaysia (58% never justified), Turkey (54%), Jordan (53%), and Senegal (50%). In Malaysia, however, roughly a quarter of Muslims (27%) take the view that attacks on citizens are sometimes or often justified.”
You criticize Woo’s statistical analysis
and then quote figures above that are just
as, if not more, open to statistical questions of bias. I do not believe the
numbers quoted above.
I do agree that numbers (including yours
which are not believable) detract from the
main point. But your main argument revolves around the numbers. You can’t defend the
statistical integrity of the numerical analyses and then say they are not the most
important part (which I happen to agree with). Which is it ?
It is not that every Malay or Indonesian
bombs Jakarta, Bali and Aceh. It is that
when they do bomb, they do so in the name
of Allah. It is not that every Malay agrees
with Ibrahim Ali, but the ones that do proclaim exclusivity of the use of Allah and
the mandated rights of Malays and the Malaysian government and many Malays support this (read Harakah, for example).
It is not that every Nigerian supports Boko Haram in northern Nigeria, but the government does nothing to stop it and Boko Haram is spreading among the Hausa-Fulani in nothern
Nigeria. Pew does not poll this information.
Syria is being destroyed by a member of a sect of Islam (Alawite) that most Sunnis don’t even accept as true Islam. Is that ironic ? Well, it would be if thousands of
people were not being killed. Assad claims to
be both secular and a devout Alawite. What
nonsense. The Ba’ath Parties and their military surrogates in Iraq and Syria (both wings of the Party) have killed around 100,000 people. That has been documented. Yes, you might find an Iraqi or Syrian that abhors violence, so he or she says.
It is not that all Javanese massacre Ahamdiyya minorities in Indonesia, but that the Indonesian police and many average Indonesian stand by and do nothing when people’s heads are bashed in. This has
been reported. Do the NGOs in Indonesia
agree with this ? No, they don’t. But most
Indonesians are not members of NGOs.
“89 % of Pakistanis oppose violence,” but at least 89 % of Pakistanis agree with the bombing of Shi’ite mosques in Pakistan, opposed the killing of Usama bin Laden, and support Jihad for Islam. Have you been to Pakistan ? Some Pakistani Imams in London call for Jihad. Maybe if the Anglican Church did the same, they would stop losing adherents. But probably not. Since the Church
deacons and archbishops don’t advocate violence.
Jordan is a major supplier of terrorists.
Jordanians, as well as Saudis, were involved in the planning and execution of 9/11. Tunisians participate in the Maghrebi wing
of Al Qaeda. Erodogan of Turkey has reversed
all of Ataturk’s secular reforms. Erdogan is also a public anti-Semite (as Mahathir was; see below).
The Arab World is in turmoil, led by corrupt governments and the extremist Muslim Brotherhood is the most popular organization in much of the Arab World. Iran is led by Islamic Fascist anti-Semitic extremists who want to wipe Israel of the planet in violation of UN rules prohibiting one member nation from calling for violence against another; no surprise, the UN doesn’t follow its own rules. Iran remains a member
in good standing. Special treatment for Iran, but not Israel or the US.
Mr. Woo’s claims are not sensationalist. How many of the countries that you discuss have you visited ? In keeping with cultural and
moral equivalency, you make the assumption
global Muslims provide the same response to different people doing the polling. Polling should always be done in the native language by a native.
Islamic governments everywhere are becoming
more conservative, including in “moderate”
Malaysia, Indonesia and Turkey. I have seen
this from first-hand experience. It is not
clear that a majority of Muslims anywhere
are concerned about religious violence. The
Quran itself advocates avoidance of contact with non-Muslims. When the mainspring of a belief system contains admonitions to promote Jihad (internal and external) then one must (as a very few Muslim scholars have) examine the source of belief. Islamic violence is not ascribed to every Muslim, true, but it is widespread and occurs in every Muslim country. The same cannot be said for Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity, where violence does sometimes happen, but it is not initiated globally on foreign territory. Hindus don’t bomb Jakarta. Christians don’t bomb Pakistan. Jews don’t bomb Tunisia. Buddhists don’t bomb Kuala Lumpur. Jains don’t bomb Senegal. Taoists don’t bomb Nigeria.
Each of these countries, I have made reference to, has produced indigenous extremists of whatever number, and these extremists do not recognize national borders. Thus, Islamic violence takes place in both Islamic and non-Islamic countries. This sets Islam apart. This unique quality
of Islam is a qualitative factor that is relevant; the quantitative factor does not
change the innate nature and cause of the violence. I am talking about Islam over the course of history from the 6th Century (please don’t mention the “Golden Age” because it wasn’t that golden). The Crusades
are over. Christianity reformed itself.
Whatever differences there are between Israelis and Palestinians, there are Israeli-Arabs in the Knesset that routinely, with the
permission of the Israeli Supreme Court, call
for the destruction of the state they are
a citizen of. This democracy does not exist in the Muslim world, even if there are Muslims who might advocate it.
Not only is UMNO encouraging Malay extremism
but it creates an environment within which Malay nationalism and Islamic extremism is
acceptable. PAS only exacerbates this situation. I might mention that what you read and hear in English is not necessarily the same as what you read and hear in Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia (or Arabic or Farsi or Urdu).
Finally, I really need give only one example.
At the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) meeting in KL in 2003, when then
PM Dr. Mahathir said Jews are responsible
for all the problems in the Islamic world
(Yes, I read Bahasa Malaysia and I have the
transcript), ALL members of the OIC (which means ALL Islamic countries, because they all attended) representatives gave Mahathir a ten-minute standing ovation. That speaks volumes about the attitudes of the Islamic world, with or without your numbers or Mr. Woo’s numbers. This might make some people uncomfortable, but this incident happened and it means something qualitatively important that a Pew Center statistical sample will not address. I do not recall any Muslim countering Mahathir’s words, at least in print.
Extremism in the name of Islam and Malaysian Muslims
Dear Oblong,
Before accusing me of making stupid comparisons, you might want to review your understanding of Central limit theorem.
The reason so many people get away with blatant misuse of statistics is that a great many people really don’t understand statistical models and inferences.
On the cusp of disease transition in Myanmar
This is an excellent article and a very important issue. I have just returned form India where we are seeing dramatic increases in diabetes and NCD risk factors. in the 1990s India was an emerging market for industries selling unhealthy products but now it is a well established market. One can only guess that this is the way Burma will go and the impacts on NCDs might be similar. nathan
When Lee Kuan Yew dies…
He means zero tolerance for laundering drug money. Just go ask Stephen Lo, son of the late Hsinghan Lo, the heroin drug warlord of Burma. I’m sure civilised Burmese people like them don’t chew betel nuts or gum. They have rich souls!
Extremism in the name of Islam and Malaysian Muslims
Bro Sam,
You make a stupid comparison. 1 drop of blood cell can tell your health condition but 500 people can’t represent 28Milion other opinion.
When Lee Kuan Yew dies…
“LKY has clinically disinfected Singapore”
Do you mean Zero tolerance for bad behaviors, Ruffians and otherwise all criminal activities as defined by LKY?
Only if you understand or envious of NOT experience the disgusting behavior of pre-LKY ‘spitting’, ‘cussing’ and being in constant fear of being pick pocketed or vandalized will you described Singapore as soulless.
When Lee Kuan Yew dies…
I think the larger question is what happens to Singapore post-Lee’s family influence. As it is the Lee-Kwa-Ho triparite’s tentacles on Singapore will continue and as long as the game plays on, all the parasites will continue to feed and get fat in the name it public service.
However what happens to Singapore when LKY passes on, will depend on your view whether he is, using the automobile as an analogy, a) the steering wheel b) the engine.c) the tyres d) the fuel e) the rear view mirror d) the spoiler e) the back seat driver
Whatever your answer is Singapore will be a well run machine although corruption will definitely increase. It will be more like temasek inc then a nation. The technocrats and bureaucrats will continue to apply their excellent business and management skill albeit soulless.
With the ratio of old to new citizens coming to 50%, it’s already a new creature and if you look at the workforce it probably has reached if not surpass 50% and in the lucrative financial industry it certainly feels like 99%.
LKY has clinically disinfected Singapore till it is now soulless. The men and women that leads that country are soulless people.
Singapore after the late 80’s has been dying. It looks like midlife crisis but it is near death. The soul of the country has left even before the founder’s.
Academics behaving badly
Dear Dr Andrew Walker
A more elaborated thank you is in order.
1) Thank you for reminding academics that a clear short concept that is easily grasped by all s better than the razzle dazzle time wasters to impress.
2) Thank you for reminding that despite the complexity of some subject, boiling down to its most fundamentals and using simple terms will inspire more to participate than keeping those subject seem unreachable to all.
Take for example:
The use and abuse of the word Democracy by almost everyone here at New Mandala.
This word in it complexity seem to confer an aura of legitimacy to the user why stating nothing specific.
Using simple terms such as ‘Freedom/Liberty’ ‘Dignity’ to qualify Democracy will be so much more less academic that any body can grasp.
Thank you again for making this video available at New Mandala.
Far reaching implications….
You are correct. I accidentally transposed the total percent of German Christians with German Protestants. However, my point remains. Instead of acknowledging that you have misinterpreted Mr. Cohen’s and my observations, and instead of engaging the actual premises of my counter-argument, you continue to merely obfuscate with non sequitur after non sequitur concerning your uneducated opinions of Anglo-American Christianity.
Indeed, the irony remains in that you falsely accuse your opponents of making “blanket statements” about Buddhism and Islam, while at the same time making outrageous, offensive, and unsupported blanket statements about Anglo-American Protestantism.
If you will remember, my original observation was that your bigotry against religion in general warps, into absurdity, your viewpoint concerning the reality that differing religious ideologies possess differing viewpoints as to the morality of religious violence. Your statements in this thread have lent support to my observation more eloquently than I ever could have.
Haris Ibrahim @ ANU
For New Mandala readers in Melbourne and Sydney, please take note that Haris Ibrahim will also be speaking in these two cities on the following days.
Melbourne: 30 October 2013
Sydney: 2 November 2013
Full details on Haris Ibrahim’s blog:
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/2013/10/23/my-talks-in-canberra-melbourne-and-sydney/
Thailand’s international human rights obligations in question
Hep hep hurray! Again: Hep hep hurray!
Not premature. I could feel the palpable drumbeat, the oohs and sighs that yes! Thaksin should be home soon. Fully amnestied by democractic parliament, thank you. And will be fully recompensed, plus interest of course, for the Bht 46 billion something that those ‘undemocractic minds’ seized from him by force.
Let’s celebrate everyone!
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
That’ll be the day!
Totalitarian and capitalist corporatist states used to be called fascist in case some people have wilfully or just blithely forgotten.
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
North Korea does not have billions of Barrels of oil, otherwise it would have been CALLED a friendly dictatorship. Now is is BRANDED a rogue state.
I am not a fan of N. Korea or any similar countries, but I truly believe that the US or Europe should be less self serving.