Haris Ibrahim provides some insights on why he has taken this path in this interview with Radio Australia’s Sen Lam
Again, like I said, if those Malaysians you speak of, make up the forty percent who’re marginalised, then I will listen to them. But if it’s the middle class who’re concerned that their life-style may not be maintained, the numbers who are marginalised are growing. And history has taught us, the history of revolutions will teach us, that when the numbers who’re marginalised are large enough, they will come around and change the way of life of the middle class. Now they (the middle class) don’t want that to happen – so stand with the marginalised now.
On a personal note, I’d find it hard pressed to believe that Malaysia (or any of the major ASEAN member states) would allow a Chinese military base in any of the ASEAN countries.
Matt, this reads like a blog post (slightly lacking context): do you have a blog? (And yes, I found it very interesting – that’s why I’d like to know if you have a blog).
It’s not conclusive evidence that the Burmese police have caught the right man, but it’s suggestive.
I also recall that this isn’t the first time a bomb has gone off at Traders – the earlier one was on the street outside, and led to increased security measures (those barriers that now fence the hotel off from the street).
The article seems, in my mind, to place too much emphasis on the apparent irrationality of the bombers’ philosophy – I doubt that they’re thinking things through as thoroughly as Yola Verbruggen does.
USA led sanctions, blockades and other punitive measures reserved for no other through UN and common positions have failed.
Post Korean war fear of ‘Communists hegemony in Asia’. Now an archaic absolute useless careless concept/policy, justified only by continuing DPRK intransigence to same policy under different reason, ‘possible invasion of S Korea’.
No amount of relentless continual vilification of the now 4th generation Kims, can deny the fact that even its own Billy Graham is appealing privately for rescuing the destitute N Korean Citizenry, despite the periodical the Kim shameful attempt to use the missionaries as bargaining chip successfully.
Overcoming every odds to acquire Nuclear Bomb now supplying all anti USA countries who wish to have the know how.
DPRK is not unlike any nationalistic Asiaan country. If Vietnam can be enticed into not becoming another DPRK by joining capitalism without shedding the totalitarian characteristic, then DPRK can be similarly drawn into the an international circle “WITH A STAKE” instead of strictly anti USA.
They’re gonna need a desperate economic crisis, a popular uprising leading to a multi-party system, a Korean Aung San Suu Kyi to be thrown into prison Mandela style, then released, and invited into dialogue before the sanctions get lifted. Whoa, whoa, hold your horses…. there’s the small matter of a nuclear arsenal getting in the way.
Dr Chan has got his work cut out. Might he expect the same experience Dr Zarni had in the 90s with the generals and ended up deeply disillusioned? Worth a try I guess.
In all your irony you have gotten your numbers wrong – Germany has approximately 30% protestants (not 63% – that is the pre WW2 number, things have changed quite significantly in Germany since then), 30% Catholics, between 2 and 5% Muslims, and 32% without confession.
The majority of protestants are part of the Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD), and are mostly liberal-conservative, but rather mild.
I do not personally know anyone who is a member of the more radical protestant churches from Baptist or Anabaptist backgrounds. Religiously based discussion over topics such as abortion or creationism vs. evolution theory are almost non-existent in Germany’s public, other than on the nutty fringes, and when papers and TV stations need to fill empty space.
The number of people leaving the churches is increasing, and both churches have enormous difficulties to find young priests. In every day life in Germany the role of the churches is decreasing.
Wacky esoteric fringes are increasing, and also the new born again cults, mostly coming from US and UK based churches. But they still are quite a minority.
What is of concern (at least to me) in today’s Germany is the increase of Neo-Nazism, especially the level of violence against foreigners. But fortunately this has not been reflected in parliamentary politics in any significant way. While in some local political bodies and in some federal government Nazi parties play a role, they have not managed to reach the 5% hurdle in national elections, and are therefore not represented in the national parliament.
In terms of Islam and Muslims – there is a rise in Salafism, but the bigger problem seems to be that many young Muslims, especially more recent immigrants, have difficulties to integrate into society, and turn to crime – which is quite secular. But in European comparison the situation is by far not as problematic as in other countries, such as France, for example.
Generally speaking – today’s German mainstream still occupies a rather boring middle ground. It is far more fascinated with leisure activities, such as football and where to spend the next holidays, than religion and politics.
It is almost unbearable to see here @ NM 4 contributors, among which 2 of my favourite tearing each other apart over current religion inspired sectarian violence.
Myanmar the country of Theravada Buddhism.
The ultimate religion epitomizing restraint,
yet when confronted with Islam ‘a religion that is inherently against all other belief’ now appear to be the villain.
Myanmar being 90% Buddhist is bound to be labeled “Buddhist against xyz” if there is any riot against another race.
Even though the etiology of almost every riot initially started with poverty induced incidences, followed by opportunistic hoodlum taking advantage by looting due to poor, law enforcement.
Impoverished?
To the point where heath care, education and minimal material just need to survive,become priority, thus following the Buddha’s wisdom/suffering is the furthest thing in most Buddhist mind.
Wonder why there are no such riot in city like Maulmyain, Thanthon and Yangon cities where Muslim and other coexisted well?
1) In those city the impoverished Citizenry are less desperate mainly because of ‘more to go around’ for everyone
2) Better law enforcement to stop the initial disputes from progressing.
Living in a Rural Monastery for a few years where:
1) Eating only one frugal meal a day.
2) Attending to all funerals and sickness
3) Consoling the weary,
Generally living a life of deprivations should be mandatory to anyone of truly wish to understand the quagmire in Myanmar.
I’m going to leave alone the irony of someone who hails from a land where 63% of its population claim membership in the Lutheran/Calvinistic church frothing at the mouth at the supposed “radicalism” of American Protestantism (Who make up a mere 51% of the US population). Likewise, the projection and cognitive dissonance to tar all religions as “violent superstition”, with no real differences between them, while accusing one’s interlocutors as “Islamophobes” is amazing in both its disingenuousness and mendacity.
I must have clearly mistaken your statement to me: “Your admiration for the Koran then suggests that you must approve of its anti-Jewish Suras. That says enough.” could have implied that i might be antisemitic as well.
I do therefore accept your apology.
While i do believe that there is quite a difference in terms of internal politics between Republicans and Democrats, in terms of foreign policy they do not differ too much, other than that most of the time Democrat presidents are more polite in doing the same things that Republicans are more brash about. Therefore, my love affair with Obama has always been somewhat cool, yet i found it quite interesting how Obama could grab the attention of the world with the completely inane “yes we can” slogan. Great PR machine though.
The killing of Bin Laden leaves me also rather cold, as it quite obviously did not substantially weaken Al Qaeda. Again, great PR, and stuff for successful books and Hollywood movies.
Yet i wonder though how history will judge in the end the initial reaction after 9/11 – starting a war in Afghanistan, and then in Iraq (based on fake evidence of WMD), and how those wars actually increased Islamic fundamentalism and anti-Americanism all over the world and gave feelings of marginalization a clear focus.
And yes – you are right: i am very hesitant to criticize Islam, as i am hesitant to criticize any religious doctrine. Insulting other people’s religion is not a very productive sport, and usually results only in violence.
I however will criticize fanatics of any religion. You can’t imagine, for example, how glad i was that i escaped back in ’91 or ’92 the Ramadan in Pakistan into Iran, as in Iran it was dealt with far more laissez faire than in Pakisthan. At that time, long before 9/11 i was already quite concerned about rising fundamentalism and fanaticism in Pakisthan i had to encounter there regularly, and questioned the close ties between the US and Pakistan.
That does not mean though that i will tar Islam itself, or all Muslims with the same brush. I never forget, for example, my stay with Muslim tribals in the desert of Kutch, who, with Islamic hospitality have given me great insides into their way of life. Or, when i was destitute in Djibouti, i was with the same Islamic hospitality, housed and fed until i could get back home.
You may cite sures after sures in the Koran justifying your Islamophobia – and i can only repeat my point that people are still people, and have the freedom of choice to do good or bad regardless of what faith they belong to.
Having regularly visited Thai cinemas in the last 20 years I have found it very informative to observe the frequent updating of the national anthem videos. there is a degree thesis in there for anyone who wants it.
The latest video has moved on from the “God of Rain” theme to a cyber museum theme where the important couple have been relegated to still life virtual wall hangings.. I must say I found this a trifle peremptory and briefly considered a les-majeste suit but I guess someone high up considered it appropriate.
Stil ..plus ca change…
I am sorry to say, but, speaking from a western European perspective, what you in the US call mainstream churches is for us a rather weird remnant of the reformation era’s more extreme protestantism that has by some fluke of history survived in the US. And the fact that more than a few leading US politicians are members of pentecostal churches is for me nothing but bizarre.
It is not a conspiracy theory that the long and close relationship between the US and the maybe most responsible countries for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism – Pakistan and Saudi Arabia – are a historical fact, including Faustian collaboration in the Afghanistan of the 80’s. And lets not talk about the Irak war, and what may come out of Syria and the rest of the “Arab Spring”.
What i am trying to point out here that first of all regardless of permissibility of violence in religious doctrine, people are still people, and violence is part of human nature. Secondly, religious doctrine has been used/abused in all religions to justify violence against opponents. Suicide attacks and attacks against innocents is not permissible in Islam (and not supported by most Muslims), yet as we can see, in today’s fundamentalist terrorism it became common practice. Even Muslims are suddenly declared legitimate targets by those fundamentalists. Salafists suddenly declare Muslims that do not follow their extremist path as non-Muslims.
At the same, as i have shown, on numerous occasions Buddhist monks have supported and legitimized the use of violence, which is quite naturally against Buddhist doctrine.
Yet when Muslim extremists abuse their doctrine, the whole of Islam is judged to be at fault, and therefore the logical conclusion is that all Muslims are responsible and follow the “wrong” religion.
We can’t just explain human action and reaction by religious doctrine. If that were so, primarily Buddhist countries such as Thailand, Sri Lanka, or Burma would not have such appalling Human Rights violation records, and such high murder rates. Also the rise of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism has a multitude of factors, in which Islam is but one of them. Marginalization, dictatorships (mostly quite secular in nature) and effects of Machiavellian cold war politics are as much, if not more, root causes.
Proponents of the notion that Buddhism is so peaceful (which in pure doctrine it may be), do not answer on the points that the rise of Buddhism was in fact not always entirely so. What about the rise off the Gelugpa in Tibet, was that so peaceful? What about Tibet’s social system, which was indeed supported by the clergy? Is serfdom of large parts of the population and horrific tortures part of Buddhist doctrine? That doesn’t suit into the still ongoing trend of romanticizing Tibet that started with Hilton’s “Lost Horizon” and turn of the last century’s cults such as the Theosophic Society, but is nevertheless fact.
Thailand’s drug war and legitimacy given by prominent members of the clergy?
Etc.
All religions are double edged swords. Without doubt, presently Islamic fundamentalist organizations are a major problem. But we should not forget that in all world religions fundamentalism is on the rise (even Buddhism isn’t free of that). Blanket judgements over the whole of Islam is but sign of that rather concerning worldwide trend.
Again, you “borrowed” the words out of my mouth. I think the fact that Mr. Nostitz believes that George Bush is a fanatic Christian pretty much epitomizes his world view. Many Europeans (and I might mention, Muslims) think the same as Mr. Nostitz. I wonder then, given the love affair Europe and much of the developing world still has for President Obama, does Mr. Nostitz think the Liberal-leaning President a fanatic too for ordering the capture and killing of Usama Bin Laden ? Much of the foreign press (outside the Muslim world) continues to praise Obama (I think not so much for the dissolution of Bin Laden, however) through the hero worship that many innately anti-American individuals have for a globalist-thinking President who
shares Mr. Nostitz’s devotion to moral and multicultural equivalency, qualitatively and quantitatively.
“Just because I do not demonize Islam, I therefore must be antisemitic. Of course, me being German, it has to be the natural conclusion..”
This comment cannot go unanswered. Let me be clear: I did not say, nor did anyone else on New Mandala, that you were anti-Semitic. What I did say is that the Koran (or Quran if you prefer) is full of anti-Jewish (or anti-Judaic) Suras. But I don’t mind so much being referred to as a monkey or pig or having Muslims hide behind trees lest they be overtaken by Jews (I can provide the Sura references if you want them). The Baghavad Gita contains no such admonitions for Hindus to hide behind trees lest they be overwhelmed by Jains (Muslims and Sikhs came later).
I also said you seem most hesitant to criticize Islam. These two together do not lead to what you stated earlier. On further reflection, I think it shows some cultural
insecurity on your part to raise such a stereotype. Had you asked me, I would have said Germany has done more to atone for its
prior sins of National Socialism then any other Western or Eastern European country, of which there were many, that participated in the deportation and killing of innocent people (mostly, but not all, Jews). But you
didn’t ask me.
The words you used in quotes above belong to you and nobody else, Mr. Nostitz.
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Haris Ibrahim @ ANU
Haris Ibrahim provides some insights on why he has taken this path in this interview with Radio Australia’s Sen Lam
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/radio/program/asia-pacific/anything-but-umno-movement-calls-for-change-in-malaysia/1209816
Malaysia-US and Malaysia-China relations
Hi Geoff,
Thanks for this.
On a personal note, I’d find it hard pressed to believe that Malaysia (or any of the major ASEAN member states) would allow a Chinese military base in any of the ASEAN countries.
Malaysia-US and Malaysia-China relations
Readers might also like to fit this story into the equation:
http://www.janes.com/article/28438/malaysia-to-establish-marine-corps-naval-base-close-to-james-shoal
Who will eventually be able to use this base?
After the bombings: 15 October in Yangon
Matt, this reads like a blog post (slightly lacking context): do you have a blog? (And yes, I found it very interesting – that’s why I’d like to know if you have a blog).
Review of Brave New Burma
Thanks Andrew, thanks Nic 🙂
Increasing insecurity in Myanmar
According to this report the man arrested for the Traders bombing was captured on the hotel CCTV:
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/oct/15/police-small-time-bomb-caused-myanmar-hotel/
It’s not conclusive evidence that the Burmese police have caught the right man, but it’s suggestive.
I also recall that this isn’t the first time a bomb has gone off at Traders – the earlier one was on the street outside, and led to increased security measures (those barriers that now fence the hotel off from the street).
The article seems, in my mind, to place too much emphasis on the apparent irrationality of the bombers’ philosophy – I doubt that they’re thinking things through as thoroughly as Yola Verbruggen does.
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
USA led sanctions, blockades and other punitive measures reserved for no other through UN and common positions have failed.
Post Korean war fear of ‘Communists hegemony in Asia’. Now an archaic absolute useless careless concept/policy, justified only by continuing DPRK intransigence to same policy under different reason, ‘possible invasion of S Korea’.
No amount of relentless continual vilification of the now 4th generation Kims, can deny the fact that even its own Billy Graham is appealing privately for rescuing the destitute N Korean Citizenry, despite the periodical the Kim shameful attempt to use the missionaries as bargaining chip successfully.
Overcoming every odds to acquire Nuclear Bomb now supplying all anti USA countries who wish to have the know how.
DPRK is not unlike any nationalistic Asiaan country. If Vietnam can be enticed into not becoming another DPRK by joining capitalism without shedding the totalitarian characteristic, then DPRK can be similarly drawn into the an international circle “WITH A STAKE” instead of strictly anti USA.
DPRK is a product of USA cold war policy, period.
Dr Chan thinking out of the box is a must.
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
They’re gonna need a desperate economic crisis, a popular uprising leading to a multi-party system, a Korean Aung San Suu Kyi to be thrown into prison Mandela style, then released, and invited into dialogue before the sanctions get lifted. Whoa, whoa, hold your horses…. there’s the small matter of a nuclear arsenal getting in the way.
Dr Chan has got his work cut out. Might he expect the same experience Dr Zarni had in the 90s with the generals and ended up deeply disillusioned? Worth a try I guess.
Academics behaving badly
A good ‘reset’ for all. Thank you Dr Walker.
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
The vast waste land of sanctions, where the purpose was to hurt therefore change the evil govt:
1) Hurt and weaken the Citizenry more than the regime.
2) Justify the evil regime resolve to survive at the expense of it Citizenry.
3) Establishing precedent to defy against the norm of civilization.
And with abundant of evidences to the contrary in Taiwan, China and Vietnam isn’t it insulting to suggest Dr Chan as a patsy??
Far reaching implications….
In all your irony you have gotten your numbers wrong – Germany has approximately 30% protestants (not 63% – that is the pre WW2 number, things have changed quite significantly in Germany since then), 30% Catholics, between 2 and 5% Muslims, and 32% without confession.
The majority of protestants are part of the Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD), and are mostly liberal-conservative, but rather mild.
I do not personally know anyone who is a member of the more radical protestant churches from Baptist or Anabaptist backgrounds. Religiously based discussion over topics such as abortion or creationism vs. evolution theory are almost non-existent in Germany’s public, other than on the nutty fringes, and when papers and TV stations need to fill empty space.
The number of people leaving the churches is increasing, and both churches have enormous difficulties to find young priests. In every day life in Germany the role of the churches is decreasing.
Wacky esoteric fringes are increasing, and also the new born again cults, mostly coming from US and UK based churches. But they still are quite a minority.
What is of concern (at least to me) in today’s Germany is the increase of Neo-Nazism, especially the level of violence against foreigners. But fortunately this has not been reflected in parliamentary politics in any significant way. While in some local political bodies and in some federal government Nazi parties play a role, they have not managed to reach the 5% hurdle in national elections, and are therefore not represented in the national parliament.
In terms of Islam and Muslims – there is a rise in Salafism, but the bigger problem seems to be that many young Muslims, especially more recent immigrants, have difficulties to integrate into society, and turn to crime – which is quite secular. But in European comparison the situation is by far not as problematic as in other countries, such as France, for example.
Generally speaking – today’s German mainstream still occupies a rather boring middle ground. It is far more fascinated with leisure activities, such as football and where to spend the next holidays, than religion and politics.
Far reaching implications….
It is almost unbearable to see here @ NM 4 contributors, among which 2 of my favourite tearing each other apart over current religion inspired sectarian violence.
Myanmar the country of Theravada Buddhism.
The ultimate religion epitomizing restraint,
yet when confronted with Islam ‘a religion that is inherently against all other belief’ now appear to be the villain.
Myanmar being 90% Buddhist is bound to be labeled “Buddhist against xyz” if there is any riot against another race.
Even though the etiology of almost every riot initially started with poverty induced incidences, followed by opportunistic hoodlum taking advantage by looting due to poor, law enforcement.
Impoverished?
To the point where heath care, education and minimal material just need to survive,become priority, thus following the Buddha’s wisdom/suffering is the furthest thing in most Buddhist mind.
Wonder why there are no such riot in city like Maulmyain, Thanthon and Yangon cities where Muslim and other coexisted well?
1) In those city the impoverished Citizenry are less desperate mainly because of ‘more to go around’ for everyone
2) Better law enforcement to stop the initial disputes from progressing.
Living in a Rural Monastery for a few years where:
1) Eating only one frugal meal a day.
2) Attending to all funerals and sickness
3) Consoling the weary,
Generally living a life of deprivations should be mandatory to anyone of truly wish to understand the quagmire in Myanmar.
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
Three thumbs down for Dr. Chan. What a patsy !
Military can still be good state-builders for Myanmar
Erik R
Do not forget Myanmar is the only country that endure isolation/sanction from 1962-1988/1988-present.
Unprecedented cutting 3 ways:
1) Making the ruling regime stronger.
2) Impoverishing the Citizenry.
3) Instilling surviving regime an enduring sense of invincibility.
All against a destiny like Indonesia but rather Vietnam.
Malaysia to build bridges with North Korea
3 Cheers for Dr Chan.
Far reaching implications….
I’m going to leave alone the irony of someone who hails from a land where 63% of its population claim membership in the Lutheran/Calvinistic church frothing at the mouth at the supposed “radicalism” of American Protestantism (Who make up a mere 51% of the US population). Likewise, the projection and cognitive dissonance to tar all religions as “violent superstition”, with no real differences between them, while accusing one’s interlocutors as “Islamophobes” is amazing in both its disingenuousness and mendacity.
Far reaching implications….
I must have clearly mistaken your statement to me: “Your admiration for the Koran then suggests that you must approve of its anti-Jewish Suras. That says enough.” could have implied that i might be antisemitic as well.
I do therefore accept your apology.
While i do believe that there is quite a difference in terms of internal politics between Republicans and Democrats, in terms of foreign policy they do not differ too much, other than that most of the time Democrat presidents are more polite in doing the same things that Republicans are more brash about. Therefore, my love affair with Obama has always been somewhat cool, yet i found it quite interesting how Obama could grab the attention of the world with the completely inane “yes we can” slogan. Great PR machine though.
The killing of Bin Laden leaves me also rather cold, as it quite obviously did not substantially weaken Al Qaeda. Again, great PR, and stuff for successful books and Hollywood movies.
Yet i wonder though how history will judge in the end the initial reaction after 9/11 – starting a war in Afghanistan, and then in Iraq (based on fake evidence of WMD), and how those wars actually increased Islamic fundamentalism and anti-Americanism all over the world and gave feelings of marginalization a clear focus.
And yes – you are right: i am very hesitant to criticize Islam, as i am hesitant to criticize any religious doctrine. Insulting other people’s religion is not a very productive sport, and usually results only in violence.
I however will criticize fanatics of any religion. You can’t imagine, for example, how glad i was that i escaped back in ’91 or ’92 the Ramadan in Pakistan into Iran, as in Iran it was dealt with far more laissez faire than in Pakisthan. At that time, long before 9/11 i was already quite concerned about rising fundamentalism and fanaticism in Pakisthan i had to encounter there regularly, and questioned the close ties between the US and Pakistan.
That does not mean though that i will tar Islam itself, or all Muslims with the same brush. I never forget, for example, my stay with Muslim tribals in the desert of Kutch, who, with Islamic hospitality have given me great insides into their way of life. Or, when i was destitute in Djibouti, i was with the same Islamic hospitality, housed and fed until i could get back home.
You may cite sures after sures in the Koran justifying your Islamophobia – and i can only repeat my point that people are still people, and have the freedom of choice to do good or bad regardless of what faith they belong to.
Thai politics, 14 October and all that
Having regularly visited Thai cinemas in the last 20 years I have found it very informative to observe the frequent updating of the national anthem videos. there is a degree thesis in there for anyone who wants it.
The latest video has moved on from the “God of Rain” theme to a cyber museum theme where the important couple have been relegated to still life virtual wall hangings.. I must say I found this a trifle peremptory and briefly considered a les-majeste suit but I guess someone high up considered it appropriate.
Stil ..plus ca change…
Far reaching implications….
I am sorry to say, but, speaking from a western European perspective, what you in the US call mainstream churches is for us a rather weird remnant of the reformation era’s more extreme protestantism that has by some fluke of history survived in the US. And the fact that more than a few leading US politicians are members of pentecostal churches is for me nothing but bizarre.
It is not a conspiracy theory that the long and close relationship between the US and the maybe most responsible countries for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism – Pakistan and Saudi Arabia – are a historical fact, including Faustian collaboration in the Afghanistan of the 80’s. And lets not talk about the Irak war, and what may come out of Syria and the rest of the “Arab Spring”.
What i am trying to point out here that first of all regardless of permissibility of violence in religious doctrine, people are still people, and violence is part of human nature. Secondly, religious doctrine has been used/abused in all religions to justify violence against opponents. Suicide attacks and attacks against innocents is not permissible in Islam (and not supported by most Muslims), yet as we can see, in today’s fundamentalist terrorism it became common practice. Even Muslims are suddenly declared legitimate targets by those fundamentalists. Salafists suddenly declare Muslims that do not follow their extremist path as non-Muslims.
At the same, as i have shown, on numerous occasions Buddhist monks have supported and legitimized the use of violence, which is quite naturally against Buddhist doctrine.
Yet when Muslim extremists abuse their doctrine, the whole of Islam is judged to be at fault, and therefore the logical conclusion is that all Muslims are responsible and follow the “wrong” religion.
We can’t just explain human action and reaction by religious doctrine. If that were so, primarily Buddhist countries such as Thailand, Sri Lanka, or Burma would not have such appalling Human Rights violation records, and such high murder rates. Also the rise of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism has a multitude of factors, in which Islam is but one of them. Marginalization, dictatorships (mostly quite secular in nature) and effects of Machiavellian cold war politics are as much, if not more, root causes.
Proponents of the notion that Buddhism is so peaceful (which in pure doctrine it may be), do not answer on the points that the rise of Buddhism was in fact not always entirely so. What about the rise off the Gelugpa in Tibet, was that so peaceful? What about Tibet’s social system, which was indeed supported by the clergy? Is serfdom of large parts of the population and horrific tortures part of Buddhist doctrine? That doesn’t suit into the still ongoing trend of romanticizing Tibet that started with Hilton’s “Lost Horizon” and turn of the last century’s cults such as the Theosophic Society, but is nevertheless fact.
Thailand’s drug war and legitimacy given by prominent members of the clergy?
Etc.
All religions are double edged swords. Without doubt, presently Islamic fundamentalist organizations are a major problem. But we should not forget that in all world religions fundamentalism is on the rise (even Buddhism isn’t free of that). Blanket judgements over the whole of Islam is but sign of that rather concerning worldwide trend.
Far reaching implications….
Mr. Schwartz,
Again, you “borrowed” the words out of my mouth. I think the fact that Mr. Nostitz believes that George Bush is a fanatic Christian pretty much epitomizes his world view. Many Europeans (and I might mention, Muslims) think the same as Mr. Nostitz. I wonder then, given the love affair Europe and much of the developing world still has for President Obama, does Mr. Nostitz think the Liberal-leaning President a fanatic too for ordering the capture and killing of Usama Bin Laden ? Much of the foreign press (outside the Muslim world) continues to praise Obama (I think not so much for the dissolution of Bin Laden, however) through the hero worship that many innately anti-American individuals have for a globalist-thinking President who
shares Mr. Nostitz’s devotion to moral and multicultural equivalency, qualitatively and quantitatively.
“Just because I do not demonize Islam, I therefore must be antisemitic. Of course, me being German, it has to be the natural conclusion..”
This comment cannot go unanswered. Let me be clear: I did not say, nor did anyone else on New Mandala, that you were anti-Semitic. What I did say is that the Koran (or Quran if you prefer) is full of anti-Jewish (or anti-Judaic) Suras. But I don’t mind so much being referred to as a monkey or pig or having Muslims hide behind trees lest they be overtaken by Jews (I can provide the Sura references if you want them). The Baghavad Gita contains no such admonitions for Hindus to hide behind trees lest they be overwhelmed by Jains (Muslims and Sikhs came later).
I also said you seem most hesitant to criticize Islam. These two together do not lead to what you stated earlier. On further reflection, I think it shows some cultural
insecurity on your part to raise such a stereotype. Had you asked me, I would have said Germany has done more to atone for its
prior sins of National Socialism then any other Western or Eastern European country, of which there were many, that participated in the deportation and killing of innocent people (mostly, but not all, Jews). But you
didn’t ask me.
The words you used in quotes above belong to you and nobody else, Mr. Nostitz.