Thank you for your great review. I hope to get a hold of a copy sometime soon. It must be an important contribution to the complex mosaic of research on a variety of Buddhist practices in my native land.
To some degree I agree with you that the label, ‘ideological war’ may be too much for the criticism possibly coming from meditation centers. However, there are indeed some extreme views, on which it seems to be based on.
I also hope there’s some clarification of the term, ‘forest monks’ or ‘forest tradition’ (if it is used in the book). A brief comparison with ‘forest tradition’ as used in academic literature on Thai Buddhism would be great.
I’m Lao Tristan. Actually, Lao people rather hear you pronounce the word Lao without the “s” than with the lingering “s” sound. No one on this board can speak on behalf the Lao people. They are all opinions. A correction to a personal pet peeve doesn’t not make it a de facto standard.
English is one crazy language and it’s great. It’s ever evolving. Anything goes just as long as the message is understood by the receiver. French is another story. How you say it is just as important as the message itself.
Speak for yourself. I am Lao. Not Laotian. Welcome to Lao. I rather say Lao than the anglify version – Laos. English is a mix-bag of other languages anyway. So chill. In Chinese, they call us lao wo ren. No “s”. Hope that doesn’t upsets you.
A country is like a ship and we have to ask ourselves which ship is sinking?
If the underlying is weak , then it is just matter of time the ship will sink.
As our talent slowly ship out so are our underlying strength.
The future is quite bleak , and only time will tell whether we are on the right path to success?
In reality , no one should distort the force of nature.
There is huge consequences for doing that, as the most recent financial crisis shown to us.
” … one must consider what the actual alternative is. In this case the alternative is Abhisit.” – Daniel (12.1.1.1.2)
The unelectable Abhisit? Daniel you are getting overly and needlessly alarmed. Vichai’s “some kill-joy Thai general disrupts with a coup tempted by her constant absentee Thai premiership” was a stab at jest, nothing else. Ms. Yingluck is made of harder-than-steel stuff and probably more iron and more lady than UK’s Margaret Thatcher (that’s praise btw). Those Thai generals would by now be shaking in their boots after Ms Yingluck’s warning (from Geneva) that she’ll annihilate every Thai “undemocratic minds”.
At any rate as I mentioned somewhere, there must be at least two Yinglucks. So even if the ‘undemocractic minds’ somehow manage to remove Yingluck1, avenging Yingluck2 will be there to deal with the ‘undemoratic minds’. And Daniel you must be aware of the deep Shinawatra family tree.
(http://www.newmandala.org/2011/08/08/the-shinawatra-family-tree/
If the ‘undemocratic minds’ also somehow succeed to remove Yingluck2, the “alternatives” include former wife Potjaman, or sisters Yaowares or Yaowapa, and the ‘Damapongs’ and in-laws too. That’s comforting thought that Chalerm Yubamrung is not an “alternative” or any of the no-name Peau Thai Party executives.
Hey, Vichai, even the Nation has climbed aboard the Yingluck foreign travel bandwagon with this very favorable piece on her meetings with the Italian Prime Minister….maybe it’s time for you to throw in the towel and recognize and accept what an huge asset she is to Thailand’s international trade, investment, tourism and general all around standing…
When there is a lot of pecking going on in the henhouse, the roughest and toughest of them all rises to the top of the order.
In the account of the U Thant uprising, a bunch of hot-headed young men made a rough, tough challenge, but soon found out they weren’t the roughest and toughest of them all. It’s no suprise that a culture like that is run by the army. (The account of the uprising was a good one, because it was not full of one-sided rhetoric.)
Now to contradict myself. Even dark-age leaders can be peacemakers who reconcile and unite warring factions. It is hard to imagine Gengis Khan getting anywhere without that talent. In addition to the necessary brute force, the Assad clan’s main strategy was to unite Syria by reconciling Sunnis, Alawites, and others but that was broken by the rise of the new militant Sunni Islam backed by Saudi/American oil money. The strategy of the Indian Congress Party (with the help of the Indian Army) to reconcile Hindus and Moslems may have failed too, had India not been partitioned. It may still fail if the oil fire spreads east.
The apparent trend of Islamization in Malaysia is very much misinterpreted by outsiders. The one setup by Mahathir administration was more on form than substance. What followed since is not further Islamised but the formation of a culture of “ampu” (ingratiation) that further transformed into an “ampu industry complex”, according to the “I help you. You help me.” philosophy.
Many Chinese would concur with the Merdeka Center limited polls that 25% of Malays (i.e. 15% of the total population) are pro-Islamist, as in accordance with their daily dealing with Malays. Thus, voting for PAS is not a huge issue.
The ban on Muslim in beauty contest, the outcry on a Muslim vet celebrating Hari Raya with her dogs, etc., are more a manifestation of “ampu industry complex” than that of Islamization.
I enjoyed Dr A.B. Shamsul’s post “The Aussie media on Malaysia: Compromised representation or manicured distortion?”. In his papers and talks in Ausralia, Dr Shamsul has got partisan politics in his country across to us as a shimmering, diverse living lanscape.
Stepwolf hints that more than eighty percent of malays in the countryside, but also the multi-lingual ones in t cities, side-step communicating data about Malaysian politics to Anglomorph foreigners.
I had my first contact wih Malays in final year secondary school in 1962. They came under the Colombo plan. They were reticent about the politics of newly independent Malaya. Their Chinese Malaysian peers were not: they were frank about the UMNO political leaders of that era, but not hostile.
Malays I met at Mebourne university also did not say too much. Malay culture does not favor frankness lest that offend individuals.
But now in our new century I have visited Malaysia five times. Because I upgraded my Malay and speak it fairly well, the Muslim Malaysians have been very frank with me.
Ability to read Malay and speak it does break the ice and draw frank communication from the Malays of Malaysia.
Dr Shamsul is right!
Dr Dennis Walker,
Researcher on Southern Thailand,
Monash University [email protected]
are dead silent. PAS are clueless. So are the urban Malays. How to blame the foreign media and academics??
It would be politically incorrect to continue using this term.
I wish to highlight, that this festival is commonly, ” Known as the Spring Festival in PRC, China, ‘Tet in Vietnam and ‘Sol’ in South Korea ”
It is a festival celebrated by many asians of non chinese descent, the Vietnames call it Tet and the Koreans Sol, many nations in asia celebrate that too especially in the northern hemisphere. The indiscriminately used term, ‘Chinese New Year’, had come from the largely english speaking overseas chinese who are half the time coining words from the chinese language they do not fully understand themselve.
The name Chinese New Year caught on because the Chinese had made up the largest proportion of foreign asian immigrants around the world. Had it been the Koreans being the largest in number, it would be known as Happy Korean New Year ! And likewise known as Happy Vietnamese New Year had it been the vietnamese who made up the majority of the asian immigrants around the world. Logical ?
The Spring Festival is an occasion that marks the change of season, the end of winter, and it tells the farmers when to prepare the seedlings for sowing, in time for the summer harvest before the next cold sets in.
You might find it interesting, the chinese themselves ( especially the 1.6 billion in China ) do not call it Chinese New Year but, ‘Spring Festival’ or ‘the Lunar New Year’. The oriental calendar is derived from the rotation of the moon not the sun.
Refrain from that term, to be more inclusive as it is a celebration for all, not just the chinese and that includes all of us. We had enough discrimination and let us not exclude others who share this festival in the same spirit.
I hope you take my comments positively and it is written with no intention to injure.
This is an example where education is wasted on a person. Despite having years of education you make assertions which reflect the views of a person who has limited comprehension skills and who misses the point of the article. There is nothing wrong with being a Muslim. The article is not about being a Christian or a Muslim. It is about the racial tension and negativity emerging in East Malaysia that has come across from West Malaysia. You need to read articles with an open mind and not let your biasness cloud your comprehension and understanding of an article. All the best Independant Malaya.
Vichai – your answer somehow managed to demonstrate Arthur’s point perfectly. The narrative you created sounds all too plausible, that is, because it fits perfectly into the narrative that those who oppose the Shinawatra’s have created. A Shinawatra + doing anything at all = corruption? Why not, right?
Its fair to criticize the actions of a politician, even a politician that one generally supports. However, to make vicious attacks on that politician’s character, one must consider what the actual alternative is. In this case the alternative is Abhisit.
Very interesting. Peaceful cultures are a recent phenomenon historically, not very common even now, and there is no guarantee that they will remain peaceful. People are very foolish to believe that the leaders of violent cultures could be anything but violent themselves. They would not last a minute otherwise.
Thailand’s road toward democracy remains fraught with challenges, but threats to such progress are unacceptable and must be fought, PM Yingluck said in a speech to the UNHRC forum on Monday. And to the ooohs and aaahs of the Arthurs of the world, PM Yingluck promised “to defend (Thai) democracy from undemocratic minds”.
“Undemocratic minds” That’s impressive oratory! That’s nearly as eloquent as Obama’s “Yes we can”.
Are there two Yinglucks? There was Yingluck S. only two years at Davos, Switzerland who was mumbling incoherently about “helping Thai prostitutes … with finance … because personally …. had Yingluck not been born into money …. etc etc” vs. Yingluck of today sounding the alarm against “undemocratic minds”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ2ktL77vnA#t=201
But Arthur (#12.1.1.1 ) insightfully says: “. . . it’s her foreign diplomacy trips, but it could be anything really …”
That ‘anything really’ ignited Vichai’s suspicious mind whirring. Why the rush to fly to Switzerland while urgent pressing issues (constitutional amendment, the amnesty, the Southern rubber farmers getting more violent protests, etc etc)? Aha! Perhaps Yingluck’s Switzerland visit was not really about ‘human rights’ but primarily and urgently about ‘property rights’ and ‘privacy rights’. The Shinawatra clan property and privacy rights, that is.
CNBC Sept. 3rd News: “Swiss banks say they’re sorry for assisting tax cheats” “It was not because we lacked skills and knowledge that we found ourselves in these unfortunate situations. It was because we acted wrongly and we displayed wrong conduct,” Swiss bankers association chairman Patrick Odier said. And to tax cheats of the world (and there are many in Thailand among politicians, high military/police/government officials and businessmen), this must be really earth-shaking news. In particular, the Thaksin & Shinawatra clan ‘offshore bank accounts’ saga may just be starting unravelling and I suspect Yingluck’s trip to Switzerland was to meet with the clan’s Swiss bankers specifically about ‘damage control’.
Subsequenly Yingluck visits The Pope for heavenly intervention that the Swiss zip their mouths, and, to Montenegro to submit her damage control report to the Shinawatra Clan chief, who also happens to be the richest citizen of Montenegro.
harry oo was born in Pyinmanha, Nha Like Chaung (creek ) where his parents were serving in Communists Party’s red army. Nha Kike Chaung is where between Pegu Yoma and Daw Nha taung tan, there was old saying when heavy raining, the horses even could not cross through, becasue of heavy floods and also Malaria disease.
PKS only became a prominent party once it sought to deemphasise its Islamist origins and focus instead on social welfare and an anti-graft agenda. No doubt their support will collapse next year following the LHI corruption scandal etc. If anything, PKS’s trajectory over the last decade lends support to Ed’s argument: single-issue parties and ideological outliers really struggle to make electoral headway in Indonesian politics.
The guest writer U Hla Oo of this NM post has recently posted on his own blog a very interesting article about U Thant’s son-in-law Dr. Tin Myint Oo (then the Chief of UN-ESCAP in Bangkok) in the aftermath of 8-8-88 Uprising.
Apparently he was being groomed to rule Burma as a legacy-candidate, but another legacy-candidate ASSK unexpectedly appeared in Rangoon and the rest is history.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Review of Renunciation and Power
Thank you for your great review. I hope to get a hold of a copy sometime soon. It must be an important contribution to the complex mosaic of research on a variety of Buddhist practices in my native land.
To some degree I agree with you that the label, ‘ideological war’ may be too much for the criticism possibly coming from meditation centers. However, there are indeed some extreme views, on which it seems to be based on.
I also hope there’s some clarification of the term, ‘forest monks’ or ‘forest tradition’ (if it is used in the book). A brief comparison with ‘forest tradition’ as used in academic literature on Thai Buddhism would be great.
Fiscal folly or essential infrastructure
I’m Lao Tristan. Actually, Lao people rather hear you pronounce the word Lao without the “s” than with the lingering “s” sound. No one on this board can speak on behalf the Lao people. They are all opinions. A correction to a personal pet peeve doesn’t not make it a de facto standard.
English is one crazy language and it’s great. It’s ever evolving. Anything goes just as long as the message is understood by the receiver. French is another story. How you say it is just as important as the message itself.
Cheers – T
Fiscal folly or essential infrastructure
Speak for yourself. I am Lao. Not Laotian. Welcome to Lao. I rather say Lao than the anglify version – Laos. English is a mix-bag of other languages anyway. So chill. In Chinese, they call us lao wo ren. No “s”. Hope that doesn’t upsets you.
Behind Malaysia’s brain drain, surprise! Real people
A country is like a ship and we have to ask ourselves which ship is sinking?
If the underlying is weak , then it is just matter of time the ship will sink.
As our talent slowly ship out so are our underlying strength.
The future is quite bleak , and only time will tell whether we are on the right path to success?
In reality , no one should distort the force of nature.
There is huge consequences for doing that, as the most recent financial crisis shown to us.
Left out of reconciliation?
” … one must consider what the actual alternative is. In this case the alternative is Abhisit.” – Daniel (12.1.1.1.2)
The unelectable Abhisit? Daniel you are getting overly and needlessly alarmed. Vichai’s “some kill-joy Thai general disrupts with a coup tempted by her constant absentee Thai premiership” was a stab at jest, nothing else. Ms. Yingluck is made of harder-than-steel stuff and probably more iron and more lady than UK’s Margaret Thatcher (that’s praise btw). Those Thai generals would by now be shaking in their boots after Ms Yingluck’s warning (from Geneva) that she’ll annihilate every Thai “undemocratic minds”.
At any rate as I mentioned somewhere, there must be at least two Yinglucks. So even if the ‘undemocractic minds’ somehow manage to remove Yingluck1, avenging Yingluck2 will be there to deal with the ‘undemoratic minds’. And Daniel you must be aware of the deep Shinawatra family tree.
(http://www.newmandala.org/2011/08/08/the-shinawatra-family-tree/
If the ‘undemocratic minds’ also somehow succeed to remove Yingluck2, the “alternatives” include former wife Potjaman, or sisters Yaowares or Yaowapa, and the ‘Damapongs’ and in-laws too. That’s comforting thought that Chalerm Yubamrung is not an “alternative” or any of the no-name Peau Thai Party executives.
Left out of reconciliation?
Hey, Vichai, even the Nation has climbed aboard the Yingluck foreign travel bandwagon with this very favorable piece on her meetings with the Italian Prime Minister….maybe it’s time for you to throw in the towel and recognize and accept what an huge asset she is to Thailand’s international trade, investment, tourism and general all around standing…
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Thailand-seeks-Italys-partnership-in-strengthening-30214706.html
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
When there is a lot of pecking going on in the henhouse, the roughest and toughest of them all rises to the top of the order.
In the account of the U Thant uprising, a bunch of hot-headed young men made a rough, tough challenge, but soon found out they weren’t the roughest and toughest of them all. It’s no suprise that a culture like that is run by the army. (The account of the uprising was a good one, because it was not full of one-sided rhetoric.)
Now to contradict myself. Even dark-age leaders can be peacemakers who reconcile and unite warring factions. It is hard to imagine Gengis Khan getting anywhere without that talent. In addition to the necessary brute force, the Assad clan’s main strategy was to unite Syria by reconciling Sunnis, Alawites, and others but that was broken by the rise of the new militant Sunni Islam backed by Saudi/American oil money. The strategy of the Indian Congress Party (with the help of the Indian Army) to reconcile Hindus and Moslems may have failed too, had India not been partitioned. It may still fail if the oil fire spreads east.
Malaysia’s election: An Indonesian comparison
The apparent trend of Islamization in Malaysia is very much misinterpreted by outsiders. The one setup by Mahathir administration was more on form than substance. What followed since is not further Islamised but the formation of a culture of “ampu” (ingratiation) that further transformed into an “ampu industry complex”, according to the “I help you. You help me.” philosophy.
Many Chinese would concur with the Merdeka Center limited polls that 25% of Malays (i.e. 15% of the total population) are pro-Islamist, as in accordance with their daily dealing with Malays. Thus, voting for PAS is not a huge issue.
The ban on Muslim in beauty contest, the outcry on a Muslim vet celebrating Hari Raya with her dogs, etc., are more a manifestation of “ampu industry complex” than that of Islamization.
The Aussie media on Malaysia: Compromised representation or manicured distortion?
I enjoyed Dr A.B. Shamsul’s post “The Aussie media on Malaysia: Compromised representation or manicured distortion?”. In his papers and talks in Ausralia, Dr Shamsul has got partisan politics in his country across to us as a shimmering, diverse living lanscape.
Stepwolf hints that more than eighty percent of malays in the countryside, but also the multi-lingual ones in t cities, side-step communicating data about Malaysian politics to Anglomorph foreigners.
I had my first contact wih Malays in final year secondary school in 1962. They came under the Colombo plan. They were reticent about the politics of newly independent Malaya. Their Chinese Malaysian peers were not: they were frank about the UMNO political leaders of that era, but not hostile.
Malays I met at Mebourne university also did not say too much. Malay culture does not favor frankness lest that offend individuals.
But now in our new century I have visited Malaysia five times. Because I upgraded my Malay and speak it fairly well, the Muslim Malaysians have been very frank with me.
Ability to read Malay and speak it does break the ice and draw frank communication from the Malays of Malaysia.
Dr Shamsul is right!
Dr Dennis Walker,
Researcher on Southern Thailand,
Monash University
[email protected]
are dead silent. PAS are clueless. So are the urban Malays. How to blame the foreign media and academics??
Universalising Islam in Malaysia
It would be politically incorrect to continue using this term.
I wish to highlight, that this festival is commonly, ” Known as the Spring Festival in PRC, China, ‘Tet in Vietnam and ‘Sol’ in South Korea ”
It is a festival celebrated by many asians of non chinese descent, the Vietnames call it Tet and the Koreans Sol, many nations in asia celebrate that too especially in the northern hemisphere. The indiscriminately used term, ‘Chinese New Year’, had come from the largely english speaking overseas chinese who are half the time coining words from the chinese language they do not fully understand themselve.
The name Chinese New Year caught on because the Chinese had made up the largest proportion of foreign asian immigrants around the world. Had it been the Koreans being the largest in number, it would be known as Happy Korean New Year ! And likewise known as Happy Vietnamese New Year had it been the vietnamese who made up the majority of the asian immigrants around the world. Logical ?
The Spring Festival is an occasion that marks the change of season, the end of winter, and it tells the farmers when to prepare the seedlings for sowing, in time for the summer harvest before the next cold sets in.
You might find it interesting, the chinese themselves ( especially the 1.6 billion in China ) do not call it Chinese New Year but, ‘Spring Festival’ or ‘the Lunar New Year’. The oriental calendar is derived from the rotation of the moon not the sun.
Refrain from that term, to be more inclusive as it is a celebration for all, not just the chinese and that includes all of us. We had enough discrimination and let us not exclude others who share this festival in the same spirit.
I hope you take my comments positively and it is written with no intention to injure.
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
Interesting statement itself, R.N. England.
Would you care to expend it with examples?
East Malaysia: primus inter pares
This is an example where education is wasted on a person. Despite having years of education you make assertions which reflect the views of a person who has limited comprehension skills and who misses the point of the article. There is nothing wrong with being a Muslim. The article is not about being a Christian or a Muslim. It is about the racial tension and negativity emerging in East Malaysia that has come across from West Malaysia. You need to read articles with an open mind and not let your biasness cloud your comprehension and understanding of an article. All the best Independant Malaya.
Left out of reconciliation?
Vichai – your answer somehow managed to demonstrate Arthur’s point perfectly. The narrative you created sounds all too plausible, that is, because it fits perfectly into the narrative that those who oppose the Shinawatra’s have created. A Shinawatra + doing anything at all = corruption? Why not, right?
Its fair to criticize the actions of a politician, even a politician that one generally supports. However, to make vicious attacks on that politician’s character, one must consider what the actual alternative is. In this case the alternative is Abhisit.
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
Very interesting. Peaceful cultures are a recent phenomenon historically, not very common even now, and there is no guarantee that they will remain peaceful. People are very foolish to believe that the leaders of violent cultures could be anything but violent themselves. They would not last a minute otherwise.
Malaysia’s election: An Indonesian comparison
Dear TP,
The trend appears to be different in Malaysia. Political parties that become more Islamist such as UMNO appears to be doing very well.
Any thoughts on that
Review of Modern Thai Buddhism and Buddhadasa
Kudos to NM for posting this topic.
Left out of reconciliation?
Thailand’s road toward democracy remains fraught with challenges, but threats to such progress are unacceptable and must be fought, PM Yingluck said in a speech to the UNHRC forum on Monday. And to the ooohs and aaahs of the Arthurs of the world, PM Yingluck promised “to defend (Thai) democracy from undemocratic minds”.
“Undemocratic minds” That’s impressive oratory! That’s nearly as eloquent as Obama’s “Yes we can”.
Are there two Yinglucks? There was Yingluck S. only two years at Davos, Switzerland who was mumbling incoherently about “helping Thai prostitutes … with finance … because personally …. had Yingluck not been born into money …. etc etc” vs. Yingluck of today sounding the alarm against “undemocratic minds”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ2ktL77vnA#t=201
But Arthur (#12.1.1.1 ) insightfully says: “. . . it’s her foreign diplomacy trips, but it could be anything really …”
That ‘anything really’ ignited Vichai’s suspicious mind whirring. Why the rush to fly to Switzerland while urgent pressing issues (constitutional amendment, the amnesty, the Southern rubber farmers getting more violent protests, etc etc)? Aha! Perhaps Yingluck’s Switzerland visit was not really about ‘human rights’ but primarily and urgently about ‘property rights’ and ‘privacy rights’. The Shinawatra clan property and privacy rights, that is.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/swiss-banks-say-theyre-sorry-assisting-tax-cheats-8C11062055
CNBC Sept. 3rd News: “Swiss banks say they’re sorry for assisting tax cheats” “It was not because we lacked skills and knowledge that we found ourselves in these unfortunate situations. It was because we acted wrongly and we displayed wrong conduct,” Swiss bankers association chairman Patrick Odier said. And to tax cheats of the world (and there are many in Thailand among politicians, high military/police/government officials and businessmen), this must be really earth-shaking news. In particular, the Thaksin & Shinawatra clan ‘offshore bank accounts’ saga may just be starting unravelling and I suspect Yingluck’s trip to Switzerland was to meet with the clan’s Swiss bankers specifically about ‘damage control’.
Subsequenly Yingluck visits The Pope for heavenly intervention that the Swiss zip their mouths, and, to Montenegro to submit her damage control report to the Shinawatra Clan chief, who also happens to be the richest citizen of Montenegro.
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
harry oo was born in Pyinmanha, Nha Like Chaung (creek ) where his parents were serving in Communists Party’s red army. Nha Kike Chaung is where between Pegu Yoma and Daw Nha taung tan, there was old saying when heavy raining, the horses even could not cross through, becasue of heavy floods and also Malaria disease.
Malaysia’s election: An Indonesian comparison
PKS only became a prominent party once it sought to deemphasise its Islamist origins and focus instead on social welfare and an anti-graft agenda. No doubt their support will collapse next year following the LHI corruption scandal etc. If anything, PKS’s trajectory over the last decade lends support to Ed’s argument: single-issue parties and ideological outliers really struggle to make electoral headway in Indonesian politics.
1974 U Thant uprising – a first hand account
The guest writer U Hla Oo of this NM post has recently posted on his own blog a very interesting article about U Thant’s son-in-law Dr. Tin Myint Oo (then the Chief of UN-ESCAP in Bangkok) in the aftermath of 8-8-88 Uprising.
Apparently he was being groomed to rule Burma as a legacy-candidate, but another legacy-candidate ASSK unexpectedly appeared in Rangoon and the rest is history.
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.com/2013/07/8-8-88-uprising-failed-aung-san-oo-or.html