I have read these reports before. The HRW report is talking about Black Shirts and UDD supporters setting the buildings on fire.
This does not mean anything. Anybody can put on a black shirt on or become a UDD supporter for a day.
These acts were done by individuals, and I don’t understand how it is possible that not even one of them have been identified. After all they committed these crimes while military troops, security guards, and other public witnesses were watching.
‘Rather than being a referendum on Thaksin, I think the more critical issue in this election is whether the electorate approves of the state killing citizens.’
In my conversations with rank and file red shirts during the Ratchaprasong protests last April-May, I asked about the extra-judicial killings during the ‘war on drugs’ where Thaksin’s role is well documented. The general response was whole-hearted support for decisive action to stop a serious social problem.
If the electorate does not approve of the state killing its citizens, exactly who can they vote for?
Thanks for a terrific article on DO. I particularly agree with the quest to ground DO more firmly in Indic culture, a process that is in its infancy. Have you read Wijesekera’s article on the gandhabba in his Buddhist and Vedic Studies? – along with several of his others, a must read.
A couple of points I would question, however. I can’t understand why you reject the three life interpretation: the Upanisa Sutta simply doesn’t bear the burden you place on it, as it doesn’t refer to rebirth in any way different to any other DO teaching. On the other hand, the Balapandita Sutta (SN12.19), for example, clearly requires three lifetimes.
I think your criticism of Mahasi’s comment is inaccurate. From what I can see, he is commenting on the abbreviated form of DO as found in the Mahapadana Sutta, and explaining that in this case the Buddha didn’t follow his normal course of continuing to the avijja and sankhara in previous lives. As is well known, DO is presented in multiple variations, and the ‘three lives’ only refers to the full 12 links, not the 10 found in the Mahapadana Sutta.
I find your suggestion about nama representing paternity to be a fascinating one. Since paternity is always uncertain (without a DNA test), it is common for patriarchs to seek immortality through their ‘name’. It could well be the case that this has contributed to the use of nama in the context of rebirth. Of course, the connection is an abstract one.
In reply to the earlier comment about the relevance of this interpretation in practice: I think it means that the Buddha’s teaching is at root an existential one, not merely a psychological one. There are plenty of places where the Buddha dealt with the way we give rise to suffering in our mind, but as this article points out, the twelve links of DO is not one of those places. It is about the basic existential fact that birth and its consequences are suffering, and to overcome suffering we have to not get reborn.
Associate Professor Dr. Chalong Soontravanich was in the Department of History, Faculty of Arts at Chulalongkorn University. I presume he is still there. I don’t know anything about Thong-in meeting with members of the Na Champasak family in Laos. I know Fong Sitthitham, another Ubon deputy, met with Raxadanai or Boun Oum as well as the King of Laos during WWII. If interested in studies of the Isan Seri Thai readers should also contact Mahasarakham University where a couple of dissertations were done on significant figures.
Nice to see Phue Thai giving Wan Yubamrung a run in a Bangkok constituency. His father will be proud. Maybe they will let him run the anti-drug campaign if they win.
As the Thai education system neglects teaching the processes of reasoning and thinking, how can the majority of people be able to understand accountability let alone act on it. Thai politicians wont even fathom ‘debating’ as they claim it doesn’t belong in Thai politics. How convenient for them..
The very authoritarian nature of Thai culture both political and social has kept the masses “obedient, subservient and mindless”. Thais are taught not to question, not to inquire and above all not to ‘critically think.’
The Thai authorities, elites and those that back them have deliberately deprived the masses of the ability to think for themselves and when the masses have stood up as they have done periodically over the decades to this authoritarian stance they have been quickly subdued with violence.
A voiceless people are an exploitable people.
Those in economic control of the kingdom can shift the blame all they like but for decades they have manipulated the whole of Thai culture to elevate themselves into these illegitimate roles of supremacy. They rule with impunity as they have made the laws.
Thai people have been brainwashed into thinking that these so called benevolent patrons will care for them, when in reality they are just treated as underpaid fodder for their monopolized businesses.
That the Sino Thai are the most wealthiest and influential people in the kingdom is no secret. They have collaborated and networked with the Thai indigenous establishment as well as the security forces for decades to create the very instability that exists today.
In conflict/ resolution situations the root cause must be identified in order to find a resolution. The root cause in this conflict is firmly based at the feet of those people who for nearly eighty years have claimed they want democracy for the kingdom but for decades have only wanted to maintain their feudal like control over the masses. Yes the diaspora s of Chinese who came into Thailand in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries were discriminated against but yet their tenacity for business saw a change in Thai laws which gave them citizenship. They have built the Thai economy to what it is today, yet they also took advantage of a society who for centuries worked under the ‘patronage’ system of subservience to ones masters. They with the indigenous elites became those MASTERS.
It is the ‘clique’ like behavior of wealthy Chinese Thais and the Thai indigenous establishment backed by security forces, built up and perfected over decades that has not only brought enormous wealth to the kingdom but also enormous disparity.
I may receive harsh criticism for my pointing the finger at particular cultural groups in Thailand and blaming them for the present situation. Yet Thailand’s issues with diaspora s conspiring with indigenous elites is not a lone case.
Throughout Asia it has been well documented especially in Indonesia, Malaysia and recently the Solomon s how diaspora s of Chinese immigrants have conspired with indigenous elites to enrich themselves through nepotism and corruption. That they have been integral in building infrastructure especially financial infrastructure is true yet they are far from altruistic when it comes to spreading this wealth.
That the military in these countries have protected the interests of these minority groups, themselves becoming extraordinarily wealthy is also well documented. You only have to do a search on the Thailand’s famous military leader Sarit to see how much this general accumulated while at the helm of the country.
Thailand’s destiny lies in redefining ‘accountability’ especially from those in leadership roles both politically and economically. If the kingdom wants to proclaim itself as a progressive democracy in the region it must act on all the claims of reform that presently are acknowledged but are never actually addressed…
Thailand’s establishment have had their day, it is time to give the nation back to its rightful owners.. They are not royalty as they seem to assume themselves, hiding in their shadows, neither are they lords of a once feudal kingdom.
The people of the Arab world have experienced similar autocratic regimes to what exists in many parts of Asia, regimes of oligarch families that protect themselves by paying off and collaborating with security forces to keep there centralized cliques in power.
These people are not loyal to anyone but themselves, their families and their cronies who continue to perpetuate not only disparity in their host countries but corruption and suppression over the very people they need to maintain their illicit wealth.
They need to be made ACCOUNTABLE and the human right of FREEDOM to choose ones destiny advocated !
I’m concerned, as a Bangkokian, that many people in my city are apathetic towards the 91 deaths last year. There’s not much outright public pressure for Abhisit to do much. I was at the Democrats’ rally 2 days ago and a Red Shirt shouted during Abhisit’s speech “What about the 91 deaths?” No one really cared to push this any further. Thai PBS interviewed Abhisit for the whole hour re: election and not a question on this issue.
After all, one side is responsible for Tak Bai and the other for Ratchaprasong.
Agree with most of your post, but we must remember the people who pulled the triggers were the same. The RTA.
The Thai Army are above the government, though sometimes they do agree to agree.
“In fact, the ECT categorizes vote no ballots, incorrectly filled ballots and any other problematic ballots as “wasted ballots”.” No. The ECT distinguishes between invalid ballots and no-vote ballots (just have a look at one of their election statistics reports).
[…] preventing a dialogue with Robert Amsterdam organised by AI Malaysia. See Benjamin’s response here. See also CJ Hinke’s comment as quoted by Asia Sentinel: Amnesty International enjoys the […]
I have been living in Thailand for the past six years and each week practice my Thai on around a dozen different taxi drivers. Since the election was called only one out of more than 20 has told me he intended to vote for the Democrats. The rest said that they would vote for Phuea Thai because they see them as better economic managers under Thaksin’s direction, and also to register a protest at the army for removing a prime minister they and others like them had elected three times in a row. I think the most critical issue in this election is whether the electorate approves of the army unilaterally removing a government voted in by a majority of the electorate, not whether the electorate approves of the state killing citizens. After all, one side is responsible for Tak Bai and the other for Ratchaprasong.
One side has put up a clone as its No. 1 candidate, and the other a puppet. My money is on the clone.
Accountability is a cultural value, and its practice is greatly variant between societies. I would love to see an academic study that summarized the history, role, expression, and consequences of high vs low cultural value on accountability and correlations between those variables and trends in political structure and economic development.
In Thailand, the monarchy (current form), a military without civilian oversight, a pay-for-play justice system, plaintiff-favorable libel laws, quasi-Buddhist karmic systems, and extreme economic disparity between classes all discourage the mindset of accountability.
Democracy operates on accountability: fulfill your campaign promises or lose the next election. Without some kind of improvement to Thailand’s accountability culture (which could take a generation), one wonders whether elections really represent progress or just a rotation in who’s turn it is to get away with murder.
“Rather than being a referendum on Thaksin, I think the more critical issue in this election is whether the electorate approves of the state killing citizens.”
In principle, yes – though I’d want to express it as “one of the more critical issue(s)” and widen it to include what I described in c23 above.
Abhisit recently said: “We have been mired in a seemingly endless politically coloured conflict with Thaksin at the very centre of it for several years now. Do we really want, or need, a Thaksin clone?”. This seems to be the heart of the pro-government message – with a hint of re-running the 2006-and-after experience. But that coin has two sides; the obvious counter is “Why vote for more of the same (and worsening) conflict that has been so evident since September 2006 – and particularly during Abhisit’s time in office?”
In practice, I see the overwhelming majority of Thai voters regarding most of all that as a relatively minor side-issue – if they think of it at all. Yes….. “It’s the economy, stupid!”. Under Abhisit, despite all the fine talk and promises of jam tomorrow, the cost of living (including, particularly for farmers, the cost of making a living – e.g. buying fertiliser) has gone up way more than their incomes (e.g. what their crops sell for) . That hurts where it counts – and it compares badly with what many perceive to have been the good old days of relative plenty – and with promises made and kept – in the Thaksin years. Doesn’t matter if the perception is correct or whether there are external (global) causes for their change in circumstances. These voters are not paying attention to the (for them) arcane issues of sub-prime meltdown, Wall Street shenanigans and bank bail-outs – nor are they going to be checking the SET index or perusing the latest GDP figures before going in to cast their vote.
A nice report, but it was obvious that the military was responsible for these killings already.
The burning of buildings is much more interesting. Are there any report on this? There must be plenty of witnesses. The soldiers on the BTS tracks must at least have seen the buildings around Siam Square being set ablaze.
From the point of view of the government, this issue must be of a much higher priority (unless they are trying to hide something), as their case of labeling the red-shirts as terrorists are resting on this case.
Thank you to whoever translated this. As so aptly put in
“Thai Political prisoners” (http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/one-year-on-and-no-justice/) “The impunity enjoyed by state officials is a festering sore on the Thai body politic”. According to Suthep when questioned by media it was the fault of red shirts running into bullets; yeah: makes sense? It remains an appalling cover up and later fabrication by the DSI boss Tharit Pengdit. Earlier investigating officers were removed to discreets corners of the kingdom when the report looked like being not too favorable to the state and replaced with amaat dummies. Even the chief forensic pathologist Pornthip Rojanasunand covered over facts or gave misleading statements to protect amaat friends in high places. [It is to me as practicing Buddhist, and as a former Thammayut forest monk, really sad – not least of all because of innocent women and men murdered randomly inside or just outside a sacred site, a third class royal Thammayut monastery favoured earlier by Mongkut]. Judgment day is not far away.
In regard Pornthip As Bob Amsterdam noted “Dr. Pornthip can be counted on to produce findings that invariably square with the theory offered by the government and the PAD” (“THE BANGKOK MASSACRES…White Paper”, n.d. p.72). she even said that “the shootings that claimed the lives of six protesters who had taken shelter inside Wat Pathumwanaram on May 19 raised the possibility that the dead had been ‘executed’ at close range…” (!) in spite of contrary evidence including entry and exit wounds – Military sniper rifles used consist of 5.56 NATO caliber rifles (implying by sleight of hand that it must have been someone among the red shirts who shot themselves with close range weapons! the somewhat tenebrous and convenient “men in black” maybe? or did they wear military issue uniforms? It all gets sadder by the minute [indeed ever since a big cover up in 1946 which led to three innocent men being executed 9 years later to close one story]. Another story continues…well, I am sure that at least the truths of May 19, 2010 will never be allowed to be fudged over by decent folk.
Jim Taylor (59). Chulalongkorn’s words quoted by the OP belong to a programme to transform his tyrannical little backwater into something more like the prosperous, glorious, and relatively liberal Empire of the little woman who ruled half the world. The royal programme suggests a desire for self aggrandisement far beyond merely maintaining his position as a tin-pot dictator. Now that the Empire has disappeared, and there is nothing left in the world worth emulating, the Chakris, have reverted to tin-pot concerns centred on their uneasy relationship with a barbarous military.
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Killings at Wat Pathum Wanaram
# Les Abbey and Sam Deedes
I have read these reports before. The HRW report is talking about Black Shirts and UDD supporters setting the buildings on fire.
This does not mean anything. Anybody can put on a black shirt on or become a UDD supporter for a day.
These acts were done by individuals, and I don’t understand how it is possible that not even one of them have been identified. After all they committed these crimes while military troops, security guards, and other public witnesses were watching.
Agen DominoQQ Online Paling Populer
Nganadeeleg #39
‘Rather than being a referendum on Thaksin, I think the more critical issue in this election is whether the electorate approves of the state killing citizens.’
In my conversations with rank and file red shirts during the Ratchaprasong protests last April-May, I asked about the extra-judicial killings during the ‘war on drugs’ where Thaksin’s role is well documented. The general response was whole-hearted support for decisive action to stop a serious social problem.
If the electorate does not approve of the state killing its citizens, exactly who can they vote for?
Unpopular facts about one of Buddhist philosophy’s most popular doctrines
Thanks for a terrific article on DO. I particularly agree with the quest to ground DO more firmly in Indic culture, a process that is in its infancy. Have you read Wijesekera’s article on the gandhabba in his Buddhist and Vedic Studies? – along with several of his others, a must read.
A couple of points I would question, however. I can’t understand why you reject the three life interpretation: the Upanisa Sutta simply doesn’t bear the burden you place on it, as it doesn’t refer to rebirth in any way different to any other DO teaching. On the other hand, the Balapandita Sutta (SN12.19), for example, clearly requires three lifetimes.
I think your criticism of Mahasi’s comment is inaccurate. From what I can see, he is commenting on the abbreviated form of DO as found in the Mahapadana Sutta, and explaining that in this case the Buddha didn’t follow his normal course of continuing to the avijja and sankhara in previous lives. As is well known, DO is presented in multiple variations, and the ‘three lives’ only refers to the full 12 links, not the 10 found in the Mahapadana Sutta.
I find your suggestion about nama representing paternity to be a fascinating one. Since paternity is always uncertain (without a DNA test), it is common for patriarchs to seek immortality through their ‘name’. It could well be the case that this has contributed to the use of nama in the context of rebirth. Of course, the connection is an abstract one.
In reply to the earlier comment about the relevance of this interpretation in practice: I think it means that the Buddha’s teaching is at root an existential one, not merely a psychological one. There are plenty of places where the Buddha dealt with the way we give rise to suffering in our mind, but as this article points out, the twelve links of DO is not one of those places. It is about the basic existential fact that birth and its consequences are suffering, and to overcome suffering we have to not get reborn.
Khrong Chandawong remembered
Associate Professor Dr. Chalong Soontravanich was in the Department of History, Faculty of Arts at Chulalongkorn University. I presume he is still there. I don’t know anything about Thong-in meeting with members of the Na Champasak family in Laos. I know Fong Sitthitham, another Ubon deputy, met with Raxadanai or Boun Oum as well as the King of Laos during WWII. If interested in studies of the Isan Seri Thai readers should also contact Mahasarakham University where a couple of dissertations were done on significant figures.
Agen DominoQQ Online Paling Populer
Nice to see Phue Thai giving Wan Yubamrung a run in a Bangkok constituency. His father will be proud. Maybe they will let him run the anti-drug campaign if they win.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/238679/chalerm-son-confident-voters-to-give-him-chances
Altering the history of impunity?
As the Thai education system neglects teaching the processes of reasoning and thinking, how can the majority of people be able to understand accountability let alone act on it. Thai politicians wont even fathom ‘debating’ as they claim it doesn’t belong in Thai politics. How convenient for them..
The very authoritarian nature of Thai culture both political and social has kept the masses “obedient, subservient and mindless”. Thais are taught not to question, not to inquire and above all not to ‘critically think.’
The Thai authorities, elites and those that back them have deliberately deprived the masses of the ability to think for themselves and when the masses have stood up as they have done periodically over the decades to this authoritarian stance they have been quickly subdued with violence.
A voiceless people are an exploitable people.
Those in economic control of the kingdom can shift the blame all they like but for decades they have manipulated the whole of Thai culture to elevate themselves into these illegitimate roles of supremacy. They rule with impunity as they have made the laws.
Thai people have been brainwashed into thinking that these so called benevolent patrons will care for them, when in reality they are just treated as underpaid fodder for their monopolized businesses.
That the Sino Thai are the most wealthiest and influential people in the kingdom is no secret. They have collaborated and networked with the Thai indigenous establishment as well as the security forces for decades to create the very instability that exists today.
In conflict/ resolution situations the root cause must be identified in order to find a resolution. The root cause in this conflict is firmly based at the feet of those people who for nearly eighty years have claimed they want democracy for the kingdom but for decades have only wanted to maintain their feudal like control over the masses. Yes the diaspora s of Chinese who came into Thailand in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries were discriminated against but yet their tenacity for business saw a change in Thai laws which gave them citizenship. They have built the Thai economy to what it is today, yet they also took advantage of a society who for centuries worked under the ‘patronage’ system of subservience to ones masters. They with the indigenous elites became those MASTERS.
It is the ‘clique’ like behavior of wealthy Chinese Thais and the Thai indigenous establishment backed by security forces, built up and perfected over decades that has not only brought enormous wealth to the kingdom but also enormous disparity.
I may receive harsh criticism for my pointing the finger at particular cultural groups in Thailand and blaming them for the present situation. Yet Thailand’s issues with diaspora s conspiring with indigenous elites is not a lone case.
Throughout Asia it has been well documented especially in Indonesia, Malaysia and recently the Solomon s how diaspora s of Chinese immigrants have conspired with indigenous elites to enrich themselves through nepotism and corruption. That they have been integral in building infrastructure especially financial infrastructure is true yet they are far from altruistic when it comes to spreading this wealth.
That the military in these countries have protected the interests of these minority groups, themselves becoming extraordinarily wealthy is also well documented. You only have to do a search on the Thailand’s famous military leader Sarit to see how much this general accumulated while at the helm of the country.
Thailand’s destiny lies in redefining ‘accountability’ especially from those in leadership roles both politically and economically. If the kingdom wants to proclaim itself as a progressive democracy in the region it must act on all the claims of reform that presently are acknowledged but are never actually addressed…
Thailand’s establishment have had their day, it is time to give the nation back to its rightful owners.. They are not royalty as they seem to assume themselves, hiding in their shadows, neither are they lords of a once feudal kingdom.
The people of the Arab world have experienced similar autocratic regimes to what exists in many parts of Asia, regimes of oligarch families that protect themselves by paying off and collaborating with security forces to keep there centralized cliques in power.
These people are not loyal to anyone but themselves, their families and their cronies who continue to perpetuate not only disparity in their host countries but corruption and suppression over the very people they need to maintain their illicit wealth.
They need to be made ACCOUNTABLE and the human right of FREEDOM to choose ones destiny advocated !
Killings at Wat Pathum Wanaram
The burning of buildings is much more interesting. Are there any report on this?
Also, go to : http://blogs.reuters.com/andrew-marshall/2011/02/13/reclaiming-the-truth-in-thailand/
About one third of the way through there is a section titled: “Who Started the Fire that Destroyed Central World?”
Within that section there is a fascinating link: “analysis of the photographs by an anonymous source has also been circulated online.”
Killings at Wat Pathum Wanaram
Les Abbey
Weakest bit of entire HRW report as it doesnt have any video or photographic evidence nor credible firsthand accounts.
But it makes HRW appear “impartial” which is why they included it.
Altering the history of impunity?
I’m concerned, as a Bangkokian, that many people in my city are apathetic towards the 91 deaths last year. There’s not much outright public pressure for Abhisit to do much. I was at the Democrats’ rally 2 days ago and a Red Shirt shouted during Abhisit’s speech “What about the 91 deaths?” No one really cared to push this any further. Thai PBS interviewed Abhisit for the whole hour re: election and not a question on this issue.
Agen DominoQQ Online Paling Populer
Khun Aran
After all, one side is responsible for Tak Bai and the other for Ratchaprasong.
Agree with most of your post, but we must remember the people who pulled the triggers were the same. The RTA.
The Thai Army are above the government, though sometimes they do agree to agree.
“Vote No” logic flawed
“In fact, the ECT categorizes vote no ballots, incorrectly filled ballots and any other problematic ballots as “wasted ballots”.” No. The ECT distinguishes between invalid ballots and no-vote ballots (just have a look at one of their election statistics reports).
Killings at Wat Pathum Wanaram
Chris L – 3
The burning of buildings is much more interesting. Are there any report on this?
Yes, the Human Rights Watch report at the link below.
http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2011/05/03/descent-chaos-0
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
[…] preventing a dialogue with Robert Amsterdam organised by AI Malaysia. See Benjamin’s response here. See also CJ Hinke’s comment as quoted by Asia Sentinel: Amnesty International enjoys the […]
Agen DominoQQ Online Paling Populer
I have been living in Thailand for the past six years and each week practice my Thai on around a dozen different taxi drivers. Since the election was called only one out of more than 20 has told me he intended to vote for the Democrats. The rest said that they would vote for Phuea Thai because they see them as better economic managers under Thaksin’s direction, and also to register a protest at the army for removing a prime minister they and others like them had elected three times in a row. I think the most critical issue in this election is whether the electorate approves of the army unilaterally removing a government voted in by a majority of the electorate, not whether the electorate approves of the state killing citizens. After all, one side is responsible for Tak Bai and the other for Ratchaprasong.
One side has put up a clone as its No. 1 candidate, and the other a puppet. My money is on the clone.
Altering the history of impunity?
Accountability is a cultural value, and its practice is greatly variant between societies. I would love to see an academic study that summarized the history, role, expression, and consequences of high vs low cultural value on accountability and correlations between those variables and trends in political structure and economic development.
In Thailand, the monarchy (current form), a military without civilian oversight, a pay-for-play justice system, plaintiff-favorable libel laws, quasi-Buddhist karmic systems, and extreme economic disparity between classes all discourage the mindset of accountability.
Democracy operates on accountability: fulfill your campaign promises or lose the next election. Without some kind of improvement to Thailand’s accountability culture (which could take a generation), one wonders whether elections really represent progress or just a rotation in who’s turn it is to get away with murder.
Agen DominoQQ Online Paling Populer
c 39
“Rather than being a referendum on Thaksin, I think the more critical issue in this election is whether the electorate approves of the state killing citizens.”
In principle, yes – though I’d want to express it as “one of the more critical issue(s)” and widen it to include what I described in c23 above.
Abhisit recently said: “We have been mired in a seemingly endless politically coloured conflict with Thaksin at the very centre of it for several years now. Do we really want, or need, a Thaksin clone?”. This seems to be the heart of the pro-government message – with a hint of re-running the 2006-and-after experience. But that coin has two sides; the obvious counter is “Why vote for more of the same (and worsening) conflict that has been so evident since September 2006 – and particularly during Abhisit’s time in office?”
In practice, I see the overwhelming majority of Thai voters regarding most of all that as a relatively minor side-issue – if they think of it at all. Yes….. “It’s the economy, stupid!”. Under Abhisit, despite all the fine talk and promises of jam tomorrow, the cost of living (including, particularly for farmers, the cost of making a living – e.g. buying fertiliser) has gone up way more than their incomes (e.g. what their crops sell for) . That hurts where it counts – and it compares badly with what many perceive to have been the good old days of relative plenty – and with promises made and kept – in the Thaksin years. Doesn’t matter if the perception is correct or whether there are external (global) causes for their change in circumstances. These voters are not paying attention to the (for them) arcane issues of sub-prime meltdown, Wall Street shenanigans and bank bail-outs – nor are they going to be checking the SET index or perusing the latest GDP figures before going in to cast their vote.
Killings at Wat Pathum Wanaram
A nice report, but it was obvious that the military was responsible for these killings already.
The burning of buildings is much more interesting. Are there any report on this? There must be plenty of witnesses. The soldiers on the BTS tracks must at least have seen the buildings around Siam Square being set ablaze.
From the point of view of the government, this issue must be of a much higher priority (unless they are trying to hide something), as their case of labeling the red-shirts as terrorists are resting on this case.
Killings at Wat Pathum Wanaram
Thank you to whoever translated this. As so aptly put in
“Thai Political prisoners” (http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/one-year-on-and-no-justice/) “The impunity enjoyed by state officials is a festering sore on the Thai body politic”. According to Suthep when questioned by media it was the fault of red shirts running into bullets; yeah: makes sense? It remains an appalling cover up and later fabrication by the DSI boss Tharit Pengdit. Earlier investigating officers were removed to discreets corners of the kingdom when the report looked like being not too favorable to the state and replaced with amaat dummies. Even the chief forensic pathologist Pornthip Rojanasunand covered over facts or gave misleading statements to protect amaat friends in high places. [It is to me as practicing Buddhist, and as a former Thammayut forest monk, really sad – not least of all because of innocent women and men murdered randomly inside or just outside a sacred site, a third class royal Thammayut monastery favoured earlier by Mongkut]. Judgment day is not far away.
In regard Pornthip As Bob Amsterdam noted “Dr. Pornthip can be counted on to produce findings that invariably square with the theory offered by the government and the PAD” (“THE BANGKOK MASSACRES…White Paper”, n.d. p.72). she even said that “the shootings that claimed the lives of six protesters who had taken shelter inside Wat Pathumwanaram on May 19 raised the possibility that the dead had been ‘executed’ at close range…” (!) in spite of contrary evidence including entry and exit wounds – Military sniper rifles used consist of 5.56 NATO caliber rifles (implying by sleight of hand that it must have been someone among the red shirts who shot themselves with close range weapons! the somewhat tenebrous and convenient “men in black” maybe? or did they wear military issue uniforms? It all gets sadder by the minute [indeed ever since a big cover up in 1946 which led to three innocent men being executed 9 years later to close one story]. Another story continues…well, I am sure that at least the truths of May 19, 2010 will never be allowed to be fudged over by decent folk.
Chulalongkorn abolished prostration
Jim Taylor (59). Chulalongkorn’s words quoted by the OP belong to a programme to transform his tyrannical little backwater into something more like the prosperous, glorious, and relatively liberal Empire of the little woman who ruled half the world. The royal programme suggests a desire for self aggrandisement far beyond merely maintaining his position as a tin-pot dictator. Now that the Empire has disappeared, and there is nothing left in the world worth emulating, the Chakris, have reverted to tin-pot concerns centred on their uneasy relationship with a barbarous military.
“Vote No” logic flawed
“If enough people vote no, we could do away with the current political system and start over from scratch.”
Wasn’t their last start-from-scratch idea that 70% of the house should be appointed?
So, in other words, vote No now and never have a meaningful vote again.