Gee Hla Oo, as a western, I had no idea the Burmese Army had it’s own people’s following. Really?
Hey, but don’t let my ignorance stand in the way as you once again selectively use facts to try bolster a pretty tenuous false equivalence between the military’s “Astroturf”-a term used in the US for fake grassroots organizations really funded and controlled by political parties- organizations and groups like the NLD. You yourself use the term “army-built grass roots paramilitary organizations”. Now that is grass roots!
The UMP? You mean the Union Military Police? The UMP that had members defect to both the Communist and the Karens?
The Pyusawhti and Pyithusit? You mean the paramilitary organizations the Burmese Army had to disband because they were too out of control by the standards of an army perfectly willing to shoot unarmed monks?
You left one out, Hla Oo. What about the Ka Kwe Ye, you know the organization the Khun Sa and Lo Hsing Han both operated their militias/drug smuggling networks under? Actually, I kind of wish Khun Sa were still around; despite his complete lack of morals (or maybe because of it), he did understand political horse trading, in fact had it down to an art form. He’d be the perfect go-between for the ASSK and the Army.
Oh yeah, I forgot the DKBA. Although the may have started out as a legitimate paramilitary group with a definite political agenda, they pretty much morphed in to the textbook Burmese Astroturf militia. Ask the Burmese Army commander at Three Pagodas Pass how that is working out for him.
I’m sure there really is a grass roots support for the military in some segment of society. There always is, but I doubt many of those genuine supporters are in any of the groups you listed, including the USDA, and especially at the leadership level. Those folks have never supported the military, they support their own self serving greed and thuggery. The military depends on their support because they have no program or policy beyond a continuous militarization of Burmese society. They offer no political concessions beyond sham (there’s no “so called” about it) elections. That is why these paramilitary groups routinely bite the hand that feeds them. That is why Burma is in limbo, not because of Aung San’s actions over 60 years ago.
Dr. M has gone a full circle – back to the 60s – when he was a rabid Malay chauvinists.
Analyst suggest that the fluctuating political atmosphere in Malaysia may wipe out his “legacy” and this is one thing the Great Dictator detest the most (note that his attacks on Badawi or Najib is always related to suggestions of undoing his policies).
The man is now a like a dog with rabies and he should be put to rest (i.e. ignored).
An example of the blatant lies he propagates (Read here)
Here at New Mandala, from Ko Hla Oo personal assertions to multiple quasi-autobiographical/exposée by various ex Tamadaw Burmese, the fantasizing of a Bolshevik/Menshevik type scenario 2┬║ to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, in Myanmar quagmire lives on.
SPDC is in charge so successfully only because of the Tamadaw support, a supporting Tamadaw that has been honed to its present form, for 1/2 a Century, to a perfect instrument of domination and oppression for every Junta willing to take charge.
Thanks to the initial laissez-faires and subsequent careless useless approach of the West.
Until we begin to discuss the fate of Myanmar not just from the prism of:
1) “I love DASSK no matter what anonymous”
2)” SPDC hater R us”
point of view SPDC will continue to have it way absolutely.
Since the Dabayin knavery by SPDC Daw Aung San Suu Kyi has effect NOTHING of significance that will change the dynamic of last 2 decades of SPDC era.
An orphan era neither recognized by the West nor claimed by SPDC as their very own product.
An era that will never have been without support of it own, a point well made by Ko Hla Oo #9.
ASSK has always played down her own personal scarifices which she maintains were nothing compared with the plight of her followers and the people.
Typically, she said she was ”already focused on the other 2100 political prisoners” in Burmese jails.
Equally typically, plan B homes in on the Western sanctions and opprobrium against the junta in the name of the Myanmar citizenry’s sufferings. It’s clearly not working either.
The poor guy fervently believes in unconditional Western aid liberating the people from poverty and hardship with no right to demand any lessening of the relentless repression going hand in hand with the expropriation of the country’s natural and human resources. He’s effectively pleading to water the proverbial poison plant.
I wish you health so you can witness the end of military misrule and the dawn of a new society in the country you profess to love but clearly not enough to part your ways with your army bosses.
You realise that the battle lines are being drawn, don’t you? ASSK backed by Communists and ethnics and the dissenting public with some ex-Tatmadaw (present party excepted of course) and also those coming over to the people’s side where they belong against the newly ‘elected’ military regime, ex-army loyalists, ex-Socialists, ex-Communists, their paramilitary thugs and death squads.
Burma has been in limbo like you said, only you arrived at the understandably right wing conclusion typical of defectors corrupted by a comfortable middle age middle class (expat in your case) life style. It’s a rather well trodden path.
Judging the extent of vote rigging in this instance sounded rather like judging whether a woman is slightly pregnant or simply pregnant. Whilst some people were fixated on the process, the junta went hell for leather for the desired outcome.
This Sufficiency Economy sounds like the Special Economy Period for the Cuban people from communist Castro’s regime: hard life for the common people and good life for the Elites and High So !!! About corruption…..someone can tell us where is the money for the thai students in Italy that every month the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand send them through the Thai Royal Embassy in Rome and why everytime the staff of Thai Embassy take time to give it, menacing them and creating many big problems to the students to pay regularly the rent of houses or to buy food ? How the students can live and study without troubles and fair ? They must find other ways to have money ? They must go to selling bodies ??
“Whatever one thinks of the UN or US sanctions against Burma, Suu Kyi’s release does not change anything. It does not warrant any lessening of the worldwide opprobrium that the junta has always deserved and will deserve until it is gone.”
1) By what given RIGHTS/ ASSUMED RIGHTEOUS do USA, EU & Australia justify their policies of sanctions/opprobrium that has hurt and weaken the citizenry of Myanmar more than SPDC alone could have?
2) Has sanctions/opprobrium work towards your stated desire of SPDC demise, so far?
Has this opprobrium that the west chose EVER work in the past?
3) Can you quantify the damages sanctions/opprobrium have done to the citizenry welfare alone and concerted with SPDC Treacheries?
4) Is Daw Aung San Suu Kyi misery = Myanmar citizenry’s sufferings?
Answering those questions:
Will reflect well on anyone’s regards to “The fate of most vulnerable ones in Myanmar”.
This call by Ramos-Horta is not new. He has urged an end to sanctions for some years now, possibly in a bid to smooth Timor-Leste’s entrance into ASEAN and not solely from any humanitarian impulse.
..the question would be then, why does Ramos is a proponent for the lift if the sanctions? Why does a President of a post-conflict country with massive domestic problems (politically and economically) sides with the Chinese line of argumentation?
[…] algunos casos crea programas para promover esos grupos. Por ejemplo, hay una organizaci├│n llamada “Cyber Scouts” que recluta a estudiantes como voluntarios para que denuncien los contenidos que supuestamente […]
Dear Ko Hla Oo, Aung San Suu Kyi did not make any mistakes in the aftermath of the 1988 protests. U Nu was a defunct force and Aung Gyi was a political joker. The SlORC and SPDC or the military junta was determined to hold onto political power at all costs. They did not respect the people’s desire and mandate after the NLD massive victory in the 1990 general election. You seem to be blaming the victim rather than the culprit of the crime like a raped victim is blamed because she is sexually attractive!
I’m sure this conference will be a lot better than Dr. Mahathir’s latest anti-democracy, anti-Australia rant – in which he labelled democracy a “failed” ideology, citing hung parliaments in the UK and Australia.
Strange that he is hitting at a hung UK which has bought the Conservatives to power, and with that the greatest roll-back of the Welfare State in a generation (which Mahathir, judging by past performance, would wholly support).
Even stranger his lambasting hung Oz – if he knew anything about Australian history, he’d know that many of the most efficient, most innovative governments Down Under have been in hung parliaments – where politicians are kept on a constant knife-edge to perform.
Something Malaysia desperately needs, after decades of one-party rule, and unaccountable mis-rule.
Abhisit wasn’t handed a “poisoned chalice”. He grabbed it with both hands and destroyed himself as a politician of supposed virtue by doing so. If he had done as he and the PAD asked the PPP government to do i.e. resign and have an election as soon as he came into power, he might have won and justifiably built that reputation. Now he’s utterly compromised.
“What they call the third, fourth or fifth forces are not important. What is important is how the democratic forces can come together to work for the people.” – Daw Aung San Suu Kyi on November 14
In addition to making life more miserable for the Burmese, economic sanctions suppress commerce, and suppress the political power of commercial interests, making it easier for the junta to retain its power monopoly. The Americans and Europeans apparently think that if they do their best to compound the suffering of the Burmese people, the junta will somehow be overthrown. That hasn’t worked and it’s time they tried something less cruel. No doubt the generals will steal much of the new wealth, but enough will flow on to make it worth while.
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Burma commentary, with more to come
Gee Hla Oo, as a western, I had no idea the Burmese Army had it’s own people’s following. Really?
Hey, but don’t let my ignorance stand in the way as you once again selectively use facts to try bolster a pretty tenuous false equivalence between the military’s “Astroturf”-a term used in the US for fake grassroots organizations really funded and controlled by political parties- organizations and groups like the NLD. You yourself use the term “army-built grass roots paramilitary organizations”. Now that is grass roots!
The UMP? You mean the Union Military Police? The UMP that had members defect to both the Communist and the Karens?
The Pyusawhti and Pyithusit? You mean the paramilitary organizations the Burmese Army had to disband because they were too out of control by the standards of an army perfectly willing to shoot unarmed monks?
You left one out, Hla Oo. What about the Ka Kwe Ye, you know the organization the Khun Sa and Lo Hsing Han both operated their militias/drug smuggling networks under? Actually, I kind of wish Khun Sa were still around; despite his complete lack of morals (or maybe because of it), he did understand political horse trading, in fact had it down to an art form. He’d be the perfect go-between for the ASSK and the Army.
Oh yeah, I forgot the DKBA. Although the may have started out as a legitimate paramilitary group with a definite political agenda, they pretty much morphed in to the textbook Burmese Astroturf militia. Ask the Burmese Army commander at Three Pagodas Pass how that is working out for him.
I’m sure there really is a grass roots support for the military in some segment of society. There always is, but I doubt many of those genuine supporters are in any of the groups you listed, including the USDA, and especially at the leadership level. Those folks have never supported the military, they support their own self serving greed and thuggery. The military depends on their support because they have no program or policy beyond a continuous militarization of Burmese society. They offer no political concessions beyond sham (there’s no “so called” about it) elections. That is why these paramilitary groups routinely bite the hand that feeds them. That is why Burma is in limbo, not because of Aung San’s actions over 60 years ago.
Malaysia and Singapore event at the ANU
Dr. M has gone a full circle – back to the 60s – when he was a rabid Malay chauvinists.
Analyst suggest that the fluctuating political atmosphere in Malaysia may wipe out his “legacy” and this is one thing the Great Dictator detest the most (note that his attacks on Badawi or Najib is always related to suggestions of undoing his policies).
The man is now a like a dog with rabies and he should be put to rest (i.e. ignored).
An example of the blatant lies he propagates (Read here)
Aung San Suu Kyi released
Here at New Mandala, from Ko Hla Oo personal assertions to multiple quasi-autobiographical/exposée by various ex Tamadaw Burmese, the fantasizing of a Bolshevik/Menshevik type scenario 2┬║ to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, in Myanmar quagmire lives on.
SPDC is in charge so successfully only because of the Tamadaw support, a supporting Tamadaw that has been honed to its present form, for 1/2 a Century, to a perfect instrument of domination and oppression for every Junta willing to take charge.
Thanks to the initial laissez-faires and subsequent careless useless approach of the West.
Burma commentary, with more to come
Ko Maung Maung #10
Until we begin to discuss the fate of Myanmar not just from the prism of:
1) “I love DASSK no matter what anonymous”
2)” SPDC hater R us”
point of view SPDC will continue to have it way absolutely.
Since the Dabayin knavery by SPDC Daw Aung San Suu Kyi has effect NOTHING of significance that will change the dynamic of last 2 decades of SPDC era.
An orphan era neither recognized by the West nor claimed by SPDC as their very own product.
An era that will never have been without support of it own, a point well made by Ko Hla Oo #9.
Ramos-Horta on Burma sanctions
ASSK has always played down her own personal scarifices which she maintains were nothing compared with the plight of her followers and the people.
Typically, she said she was ”already focused on the other 2100 political prisoners” in Burmese jails.
Equally typically, plan B homes in on the Western sanctions and opprobrium against the junta in the name of the Myanmar citizenry’s sufferings. It’s clearly not working either.
The poor guy fervently believes in unconditional Western aid liberating the people from poverty and hardship with no right to demand any lessening of the relentless repression going hand in hand with the expropriation of the country’s natural and human resources. He’s effectively pleading to water the proverbial poison plant.
Burma commentary, with more to come
Hla Oo,
I wish you health so you can witness the end of military misrule and the dawn of a new society in the country you profess to love but clearly not enough to part your ways with your army bosses.
You realise that the battle lines are being drawn, don’t you? ASSK backed by Communists and ethnics and the dissenting public with some ex-Tatmadaw (present party excepted of course) and also those coming over to the people’s side where they belong against the newly ‘elected’ military regime, ex-army loyalists, ex-Socialists, ex-Communists, their paramilitary thugs and death squads.
Burma has been in limbo like you said, only you arrived at the understandably right wing conclusion typical of defectors corrupted by a comfortable middle age middle class (expat in your case) life style. It’s a rather well trodden path.
Aung San Suu Kyi on engagement
kyaw #9
Judging the extent of vote rigging in this instance sounded rather like judging whether a woman is slightly pregnant or simply pregnant. Whilst some people were fixated on the process, the junta went hell for leather for the desired outcome.
kyaw #10
Exactly.
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
This Sufficiency Economy sounds like the Special Economy Period for the Cuban people from communist Castro’s regime: hard life for the common people and good life for the Elites and High So !!! About corruption…..someone can tell us where is the money for the thai students in Italy that every month the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand send them through the Thai Royal Embassy in Rome and why everytime the staff of Thai Embassy take time to give it, menacing them and creating many big problems to the students to pay regularly the rent of houses or to buy food ? How the students can live and study without troubles and fair ? They must find other ways to have money ? They must go to selling bodies ??
Aung San Suu Kyi on engagement
Charles F #7
A well described trajectory of SPDC aspiration indeed!
Knowing that trajectory, nothing new or surprising:
Why does the West or DASSK use these known facts as base in formulating their policies towards Myanmar?
Ko Kyaw
DASSK has so far squandered all her multiple opportunities to represent Myanmar Citizenry well beings.
Do you think it will be different this time given the lack of maneuverability that SPDC has cunningly crafted to corral her through?
Ko Moe Aung
Res Ipsa Loquitur.
Ramos-Horta on Burma sanctions
BKK lawyer
“Whatever one thinks of the UN or US sanctions against Burma, Suu Kyi’s release does not change anything. It does not warrant any lessening of the worldwide opprobrium that the junta has always deserved and will deserve until it is gone.”
1) By what given RIGHTS/ ASSUMED RIGHTEOUS do USA, EU & Australia justify their policies of sanctions/opprobrium that has hurt and weaken the citizenry of Myanmar more than SPDC alone could have?
2) Has sanctions/opprobrium work towards your stated desire of SPDC demise, so far?
Has this opprobrium that the west chose EVER work in the past?
3) Can you quantify the damages sanctions/opprobrium have done to the citizenry welfare alone and concerted with SPDC Treacheries?
4) Is Daw Aung San Suu Kyi misery = Myanmar citizenry’s sufferings?
Answering those questions:
Will reflect well on anyone’s regards to “The fate of most vulnerable ones in Myanmar”.
Ramos-Horta on Burma sanctions
This call by Ramos-Horta is not new. He has urged an end to sanctions for some years now, possibly in a bid to smooth Timor-Leste’s entrance into ASEAN and not solely from any humanitarian impulse.
Ramos-Horta on Burma sanctions
..the question would be then, why does Ramos is a proponent for the lift if the sanctions? Why does a President of a post-conflict country with massive domestic problems (politically and economically) sides with the Chinese line of argumentation?
From Village Scouts to Cyber Scouts
[…] algunos casos crea programas para promover esos grupos. Por ejemplo, hay una organizaci├│n llamada “Cyber Scouts” que recluta a estudiantes como voluntarios para que denuncien los contenidos que supuestamente […]
Burma commentary, with more to come
Dear Ko Hla Oo, Aung San Suu Kyi did not make any mistakes in the aftermath of the 1988 protests. U Nu was a defunct force and Aung Gyi was a political joker. The SlORC and SPDC or the military junta was determined to hold onto political power at all costs. They did not respect the people’s desire and mandate after the NLD massive victory in the 1990 general election. You seem to be blaming the victim rather than the culprit of the crime like a raped victim is blamed because she is sexually attractive!
Malaysia and Singapore event at the ANU
I’m sure this conference will be a lot better than Dr. Mahathir’s latest anti-democracy, anti-Australia rant – in which he labelled democracy a “failed” ideology, citing hung parliaments in the UK and Australia.
Strange that he is hitting at a hung UK which has bought the Conservatives to power, and with that the greatest roll-back of the Welfare State in a generation (which Mahathir, judging by past performance, would wholly support).
Even stranger his lambasting hung Oz – if he knew anything about Australian history, he’d know that many of the most efficient, most innovative governments Down Under have been in hung parliaments – where politicians are kept on a constant knife-edge to perform.
Something Malaysia desperately needs, after decades of one-party rule, and unaccountable mis-rule.
Once a Jolly Hangman: Singapore Justice in the Dock
The Jolly Hangman author is sentenced. Read here
War and politics, in Burmese
Thanks for the interesting links. A long shot, but is it possible to post a table of contents for the Major Tint Wai Aye book?
Abhisit on sufficiency and corruption
Polyphemus,
Abhisit wasn’t handed a “poisoned chalice”. He grabbed it with both hands and destroyed himself as a politician of supposed virtue by doing so. If he had done as he and the PAD asked the PPP government to do i.e. resign and have an election as soon as he came into power, he might have won and justifiably built that reputation. Now he’s utterly compromised.
Aung San Suu Kyi on engagement
“What they call the third, fourth or fifth forces are not important. What is important is how the democratic forces can come together to work for the people.” – Daw Aung San Suu Kyi on November 14
Ramos-Horta on Burma sanctions
In addition to making life more miserable for the Burmese, economic sanctions suppress commerce, and suppress the political power of commercial interests, making it easier for the junta to retain its power monopoly. The Americans and Europeans apparently think that if they do their best to compound the suffering of the Burmese people, the junta will somehow be overthrown. That hasn’t worked and it’s time they tried something less cruel. No doubt the generals will steal much of the new wealth, but enough will flow on to make it worth while.