Maratjp don’t waste your energy trying to convince useful intellectuals … Next they’ll say is that Thaksin saved Thai democracy. Mostly angry bitter men in their 40s to 60s dominate this pseodo-intellectual ghetto forum here. They’re aggressive, they’re full of hate, they’re textbook red. Nobody really needs them, but also your kindness and reasoning trying to present them simple facts should have limits.
@Maratjp
“The real violence in Thailand is much more insidious than what happened on April 10 and May 19.” // I agree, the real violence thrives under the false testimonials perpetrated by those with biased political leanings and vested business interests; the real damage is done when the owners of the guns and those hired to fire them continue to use their power indiscriminately in the name of overwhelming an opposing and dissenting voice.
Maratjp , I was there also, and witnessing snipers on roofs killing un armed civilians didn’t make me feel there was an equal repartee of force at play. The casualty statistics the govt is too embarrassed to reveal speaks volumes against your fallacious arguments.
Agree with him or not, it seems to me that he has added considerably to intelligent debate about the state of politics in Thailand and continues to do so on a regular basis.
Tarrin, I think you forgot our brave red Seh Dang, killed by Jor Por Ror. That may be one reason to leave Thailand to fight from outside,and other reason is we are not strong enough to bring our country to be the same in Nepal. We can do many things from outside when we think and compare if we stay in jail like Weng and others, useless. Another reason is our followers not mature to understand our target because they depend on only ONE person who leaves his people now. He is no meaning now when that ONE changes already. He is only rich and can not trust to go together to our target.
Whoopla: You are correct in that journalists are paid to take risks. But they are not paid to then accuse soldiers of systematically targeting them when they get killed.
“To give credit to a violent and cruel government’s action to dispel un-lethally-armed protesters is in itself a questionable prejudice.”
The government’s action was not violent and cruel. There were armed protestors who lobbed grenades at them. Up until that point the soldiers fell back, shot blanks, shot in the air, and threw tear gas at protesters. Protests are protests but where in the world can you shut down an entire business district of a major city endlessly and get away with it? Every protest has limits. In my own country there are things you can and cannot do in a protest. The protesters didn’t leave and they openly challenged soldiers. And this was after days, weeks, months.
Dead Journalists: “Fabio was murdered by the Thai state and they’ve now attempted to cover it up.”
No. Fabio was killed because he wore black and wore a motorcycle helmet and failed to heed the advice of common sense and even his friend Gina Mariah who told him “not to go.” He rolled the dice and lost.
Dead Journalists: “The journalists and others posting here as apologists are actually quite pathetic and are certainly representative of most of the journalists and expats I’ve encountered in Thailand.”
I do agree that most expats in Thailand are pathetic. However, I don’t think that my eyewitness account of nearly two months of being part of these protests should be so easily dismissed.
Tarrin: “In other country there’s standard set of action that the government has to take before start dispersing the protest from warning to using water gun and so on but I don’t believe any country allow an entire infantry division full of APCs, tanks, and other types of small arms to be use to disperse the protest.”
The Thai military did use these rules of engagement as I have mentioned before: shooting blanks, shooting in the air, tear gas, falling back, music, talking on a microphone etc. An “entire infantry division”? 20k troops? There weren’t that many. Tanks? There were no tanks, just APC’s and not many of those. You must be joking when you mentioned that countries have never used such military force to quell protests. Take a gander at the 20th century.
Tarrin: You mention 1976. 2010 and 1976 are completely different. Burning corpses? Free fire at students as they staged a sit in? Lynching?
Please listen to the comments of those of us WHO WERE THERE. And listen to the journalists who were shot in the RWB report.
The real violence in Thailand is much more insidious than what happened on April 10 and May 19.
Rainseeding, even with the top-technology like in the Royal project cannot change the amount of rain per year, but possibly the timing and location of rainfalls. The aim is to make rains fall on suitable lands and preferably upstream of dams.
The issue is that it is simply impossible to evaluate any Royal project in Thailand.
So will you just write off Chamlong’s role in 92 and the fight against Suchinda? Is this where your historical revisionism leads you? What role will you write for Thaksin in 92? Will you make him the hero?
Its the approach that governments take in (not) allowing citizens to express their views.
Whether its authoritarian single party states such as Singapore, Burma, Vietnam or Brunei – or dysfunctional democracies such as Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia – all attempt to curb popular expression.
@Charles F
Actually I was listening to the resistance songs of the Italian Partigiani, who had no choice but to take decisive steps to rid their people of its poisonous fascist rulers. Inevitably this improvement didn’t come about by them acquiescing to the corrupt and incumbent elite’s heavy boot in their face. In this parallell universe it would be indeed utopic to hope that the inevitable change coming to Thailand should be blood free. Hopefully some education and savvy use of technology will ameliorate the pain of that transition. Conversely, a small dose of corruption-free and non-despotic leadership for the grass roots might also help. With regards to inspirational music, at least the Internationale aspired to truly “noble” ideals.
The Grippen is no doubt a fine 4.5th generation air craft with a fly-away price below $30 million, but Thailand is buying the plane at almost $70 million each, I think that’s a pretty steep price for a $30 million fighter dont you think?
Tarrin, those 4.6 sq. Km are mined. I speak from my 10 years’ working along Thai borderlines except Malaysia’s.
It was technically belong to us already when Nopadon strike the deal with the Cambodian when he was still the foreign minister, but the PAD fellow ruined everything by reviewing the deal to the public, now the Cambodian knew there were being trick so now they wouldn’t give that land to us, nice going.
In other country there’s standard set of action that the government has to take before start dispersing the protest from warning to using water gun and so on but I don’t believe any country allow an entire infantry division full of APCs, tanks, and other types of small arms to be use to disperse the protest. Maybe Nick can tell you what actually happened during the fateful day he was being shot at.
You speak as if the red can fight the Army face to face, if that’s the case then we would have seen a civil war already.
Maratjp – 58
If you keep insisting that the Army is doing the right thing then obviously you are falling for the same trick they used in 1976 when TU was being assault by the border petrol polices. Do you want to same tragedy to repeat itself again and again?
Chamlong staying with his followers to the bitter end when the bullets were flying, or was that just my memory of the 90s failing?
Nope there’s nothing wrong with your memory Chamlomg was there when the firing start. However you just didn’t know that Chamlong has nothing to be afraid of since you don’t know one very important fact about the cadet’s tradition. The student from Jor Por Ror cadet school will never, and I repeat “NEVER” shoot at their own fellow student. Chamlong had nothing to be afraid of because he knew that no one soldier will dare to shoot him.This lead to another fact that the assassination of Sae Dang will yield some very unfavorable result in the future let me assured you that.
Democrats have been the more liberal party while the politicians that fell in behind an authoritarian Thaksin have been some of the most corrupt that Thailand has to offer.
Democrat liberal??? I beg you pardon but I have to strongly disagree on that. Our dashing PM has brought back the classic 1993-96 rotten management style that was indirectly result in 97 crisis. Furthermore the under the Dem government, the country has never see such a heavy media censorship environment before. The technology like 3G that suppose to be here 3 years ago never arrived because of that “rotten management style”, I don’t call that liberal. As for corruption, you should go back and check out what Suthep, Banharn, Newin, et al had been sucking out of the country.
Fabio was murdered by the Thai state and they’ve now attempted to cover it up.
The journalists and others posting here as apologists are actually quite pathetic and are certainly representative of most of the journalists and expats I’ve encountered in Thailand.
I can imagine the same people reporting Bloody Sunday or Sharpeville – hiding behind objectivity as a repugnant regime kills their own citizens.
Sometimes things are just wrong and a stand needs to be taken.
The Thai elite have been drenched in blood for generations such is their desire to hang onto power.
Ahh yes, Chamlong – the same man who used to head up anti-“communist” death squads in the 60s and 70s. What a brave and honourable man. Wonder how much blood he has on his hands?
MattB/StainG – and where was Abhisit when he was ordering the deaths of dozens of Thai citizens? Hiding in a bunker. The guy doesn’t even have the guts to visit parts of his own country.
It is difficult to fault Arisman and the rest of the Reds leadership for deserting their ‘soldiers’ when the bullets started to fly, because the Supreme Red Leader Thaksin himself was leading the ‘fight-to-the-end’ at Montenegro.
What I wish to know is: Did Arisman himself made any attempt to toss a liter-bottle-filled-with-petrol, or, was he just pissing at his pants when going really got tough?
It’s rather the other way around: Thailand was a province of Cambodia and still is if some cultural considerations are taken into account, for example, the old Cambodian-style relics in northeastern and eastern Thailand.
Thailand should take a lesson from Cambodia regarding the polite language and manner employed in dealing with Thaksin Shinawatra. It goes to show who is the more civilized.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Maratjp don’t waste your energy trying to convince useful intellectuals … Next they’ll say is that Thaksin saved Thai democracy. Mostly angry bitter men in their 40s to 60s dominate this pseodo-intellectual ghetto forum here. They’re aggressive, they’re full of hate, they’re textbook red. Nobody really needs them, but also your kindness and reasoning trying to present them simple facts should have limits.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
@Maratjp
“The real violence in Thailand is much more insidious than what happened on April 10 and May 19.” // I agree, the real violence thrives under the false testimonials perpetrated by those with biased political leanings and vested business interests; the real damage is done when the owners of the guns and those hired to fire them continue to use their power indiscriminately in the name of overwhelming an opposing and dissenting voice.
Maratjp , I was there also, and witnessing snipers on roofs killing un armed civilians didn’t make me feel there was an equal repartee of force at play. The casualty statistics the govt is too embarrassed to reveal speaks volumes against your fallacious arguments.
More on the “strategy of tension”
Robert Amsterdam has today turned out yet another interesting article entitled “Thailand and State Capture”
http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/?p=316 .
Agree with him or not, it seems to me that he has added considerably to intelligent debate about the state of politics in Thailand and continues to do so on a regular basis.
More on the “strategy of tension”
Tarrin, I think you forgot our brave red Seh Dang, killed by Jor Por Ror. That may be one reason to leave Thailand to fight from outside,and other reason is we are not strong enough to bring our country to be the same in Nepal. We can do many things from outside when we think and compare if we stay in jail like Weng and others, useless. Another reason is our followers not mature to understand our target because they depend on only ONE person who leaves his people now. He is no meaning now when that ONE changes already. He is only rich and can not trust to go together to our target.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Whoopla: You are correct in that journalists are paid to take risks. But they are not paid to then accuse soldiers of systematically targeting them when they get killed.
“To give credit to a violent and cruel government’s action to dispel un-lethally-armed protesters is in itself a questionable prejudice.”
The government’s action was not violent and cruel. There were armed protestors who lobbed grenades at them. Up until that point the soldiers fell back, shot blanks, shot in the air, and threw tear gas at protesters. Protests are protests but where in the world can you shut down an entire business district of a major city endlessly and get away with it? Every protest has limits. In my own country there are things you can and cannot do in a protest. The protesters didn’t leave and they openly challenged soldiers. And this was after days, weeks, months.
Dead Journalists: “Fabio was murdered by the Thai state and they’ve now attempted to cover it up.”
No. Fabio was killed because he wore black and wore a motorcycle helmet and failed to heed the advice of common sense and even his friend Gina Mariah who told him “not to go.” He rolled the dice and lost.
Dead Journalists: “The journalists and others posting here as apologists are actually quite pathetic and are certainly representative of most of the journalists and expats I’ve encountered in Thailand.”
I do agree that most expats in Thailand are pathetic. However, I don’t think that my eyewitness account of nearly two months of being part of these protests should be so easily dismissed.
Tarrin: “In other country there’s standard set of action that the government has to take before start dispersing the protest from warning to using water gun and so on but I don’t believe any country allow an entire infantry division full of APCs, tanks, and other types of small arms to be use to disperse the protest.”
The Thai military did use these rules of engagement as I have mentioned before: shooting blanks, shooting in the air, tear gas, falling back, music, talking on a microphone etc. An “entire infantry division”? 20k troops? There weren’t that many. Tanks? There were no tanks, just APC’s and not many of those. You must be joking when you mentioned that countries have never used such military force to quell protests. Take a gander at the 20th century.
Tarrin: You mention 1976. 2010 and 1976 are completely different. Burning corpses? Free fire at students as they staged a sit in? Lynching?
Please listen to the comments of those of us WHO WERE THERE. And listen to the journalists who were shot in the RWB report.
The real violence in Thailand is much more insidious than what happened on April 10 and May 19.
Royal rain-making in the news
Rainseeding, even with the top-technology like in the Royal project cannot change the amount of rain per year, but possibly the timing and location of rainfalls. The aim is to make rains fall on suitable lands and preferably upstream of dams.
The issue is that it is simply impossible to evaluate any Royal project in Thailand.
More on the “strategy of tension”
GStain – Tarrin – chris beale
So will you just write off Chamlong’s role in 92 and the fight against Suchinda? Is this where your historical revisionism leads you? What role will you write for Thaksin in 92? Will you make him the hero?
That Effing Show
I think Islam is not to be blamed denyzofisarn.
Its the approach that governments take in (not) allowing citizens to express their views.
Whether its authoritarian single party states such as Singapore, Burma, Vietnam or Brunei – or dysfunctional democracies such as Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia – all attempt to curb popular expression.
Najib, are you for real?
Your right Neptunian,
The idea of playing to the gallery by UMNO & right wing Muslims is clearly taking Malaysia to the breaking point.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
@Charles F
Actually I was listening to the resistance songs of the Italian Partigiani, who had no choice but to take decisive steps to rid their people of its poisonous fascist rulers. Inevitably this improvement didn’t come about by them acquiescing to the corrupt and incumbent elite’s heavy boot in their face. In this parallell universe it would be indeed utopic to hope that the inevitable change coming to Thailand should be blood free. Hopefully some education and savvy use of technology will ameliorate the pain of that transition. Conversely, a small dose of corruption-free and non-despotic leadership for the grass roots might also help. With regards to inspirational music, at least the Internationale aspired to truly “noble” ideals.
Abhisit’s territorial rite
denyzofisarn – 29
The Grippen is no doubt a fine 4.5th generation air craft with a fly-away price below $30 million, but Thailand is buying the plane at almost $70 million each, I think that’s a pretty steep price for a $30 million fighter dont you think?
Tarrin, those 4.6 sq. Km are mined. I speak from my 10 years’ working along Thai borderlines except Malaysia’s.
It was technically belong to us already when Nopadon strike the deal with the Cambodian when he was still the foreign minister, but the PAD fellow ruined everything by reviewing the deal to the public, now the Cambodian knew there were being trick so now they wouldn’t give that land to us, nice going.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Charles F – 61
In other country there’s standard set of action that the government has to take before start dispersing the protest from warning to using water gun and so on but I don’t believe any country allow an entire infantry division full of APCs, tanks, and other types of small arms to be use to disperse the protest. Maybe Nick can tell you what actually happened during the fateful day he was being shot at.
You speak as if the red can fight the Army face to face, if that’s the case then we would have seen a civil war already.
Maratjp – 58
If you keep insisting that the Army is doing the right thing then obviously you are falling for the same trick they used in 1976 when TU was being assault by the border petrol polices. Do you want to same tragedy to repeat itself again and again?
More on the “strategy of tension”
McCargo wrote an excellent book on Chamlong – including his duplicitious role during the Thammasat massacre period.
More on the “strategy of tension”
LesAbbey – 24
Chamlong staying with his followers to the bitter end when the bullets were flying, or was that just my memory of the 90s failing?
Nope there’s nothing wrong with your memory Chamlomg was there when the firing start. However you just didn’t know that Chamlong has nothing to be afraid of since you don’t know one very important fact about the cadet’s tradition. The student from Jor Por Ror cadet school will never, and I repeat “NEVER” shoot at their own fellow student. Chamlong had nothing to be afraid of because he knew that no one soldier will dare to shoot him.This lead to another fact that the assassination of Sae Dang will yield some very unfavorable result in the future let me assured you that.
Democrats have been the more liberal party while the politicians that fell in behind an authoritarian Thaksin have been some of the most corrupt that Thailand has to offer.
Democrat liberal??? I beg you pardon but I have to strongly disagree on that. Our dashing PM has brought back the classic 1993-96 rotten management style that was indirectly result in 97 crisis. Furthermore the under the Dem government, the country has never see such a heavy media censorship environment before. The technology like 3G that suppose to be here 3 years ago never arrived because of that “rotten management style”, I don’t call that liberal. As for corruption, you should go back and check out what Suthep, Banharn, Newin, et al had been sucking out of the country.
Who killed Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi?
Fabio was murdered by the Thai state and they’ve now attempted to cover it up.
The journalists and others posting here as apologists are actually quite pathetic and are certainly representative of most of the journalists and expats I’ve encountered in Thailand.
I can imagine the same people reporting Bloody Sunday or Sharpeville – hiding behind objectivity as a repugnant regime kills their own citizens.
Sometimes things are just wrong and a stand needs to be taken.
The Thai elite have been drenched in blood for generations such is their desire to hang onto power.
More on the “strategy of tension”
Les
Ahh yes, Chamlong – the same man who used to head up anti-“communist” death squads in the 60s and 70s. What a brave and honourable man. Wonder how much blood he has on his hands?
MattB/StainG – and where was Abhisit when he was ordering the deaths of dozens of Thai citizens? Hiding in a bunker. The guy doesn’t even have the guts to visit parts of his own country.
More on the “strategy of tension”
It is difficult to fault Arisman and the rest of the Reds leadership for deserting their ‘soldiers’ when the bullets started to fly, because the Supreme Red Leader Thaksin himself was leading the ‘fight-to-the-end’ at Montenegro.
What I wish to know is: Did Arisman himself made any attempt to toss a liter-bottle-filled-with-petrol, or, was he just pissing at his pants when going really got tough?
Cambodia is not a province of Thailand
It’s rather the other way around: Thailand was a province of Cambodia and still is if some cultural considerations are taken into account, for example, the old Cambodian-style relics in northeastern and eastern Thailand.
Thailand-Cambodia agreement!
Thailand should take a lesson from Cambodia regarding the polite language and manner employed in dealing with Thaksin Shinawatra. It goes to show who is the more civilized.
Royal rain-making in the news
Poor Thai people to have to put up with polluted atmosphere!