I dont think many of the red are very interested in this release from the DSI
its the rich and wealthy that drool over money and get jealous if they see anyone else has some
the rich and wealthy will fill the pages with speculation and gleeful “evidence” of Thaksins influence and “control”
the rest of us just know that this whole thing is about the unhealthy military/amnart minority controlling Thailand for their own benefit riding on the backs of the rest of the Thai people
anyone that comments here should ponder on how much respect or contempt they are held by the current Thai ruling class, including the academics and business people that populate the Thai middle class and are predominant in commenting
if you toady they might throw you a few baht, if not then they will manipulate the law to get you
Andrew:
I suspect that Tarrin might be able to shed more light in terms of actual reports. My knowledge is sketchy, and only based on the few villagers I know and complains from a lot of my Bangkok friends.
As far as I know, the 1 million baht fund is available to all villagers. It is not tied to voting in any way. As of July 2001, almost all of the almost 75,000 villages opened account for the one million baht village fund. The TRT government, in accordance to its campaign promise, started transferring money on July 25th. There was no discrimination as to whether that village voted for or against Taksin or TRT. The villages were to managed their own money under the condition that once the money is gone, it will not be replaced. During that time was also the aftermath of the financial crisis and there are a lot of unemployed undergraduates, so the TRT government did “employ” some of these to help with the management of the fund. There were also complaints that in some cases, that local MPs (not the Kamnans) tries to interfere by bringing in their own people to tamper with how the money should be spent. There are rare cases where the money sat untouched in a village fund because the village had no project or no need of the money – one village in the Nan Province.
Conclusion of Effectiveness of the village fund is very mixed, and it cannot be viewed in isolation – not without taking into consideration other farmers loans mechanism and OTOP. But my perspective is that the key failure in the village fund is in its implementation: there is just not enough people who know how to manage that amount of money and many loans were made without proper checks on business plans. Many of those against the funds charged that half the loans were wasted because it went to repay loanshark debts instead of investing in businesses and a big deal was made of a case where a drug-dealer in the south used a loan from the fund to stock up on drugs. (However, perhaps the use of fund to repay loan-shark might help to endear grateful farmers to Taksin? I mean, its deadly to owe money to loansharks, but one only get blacklisted owing money to governments, and eventually those debts gets forgiven – see US financial crisis).
Then again, I learn in Management and MBA courses that only 5% of new businesses survive their first year, and even less survive the 5 year mark… so… I am not expecting high success rate for Village Fund.
Nevertheless, there are enough villages that made good with the village fund and OTOP was so successful I knew a group of Japanese academics flew down to Thailand to study this OTOP and charted its progress and evolution to MTOP – Multi-Tamboon One Product for export. (Note that OTOP was based on a Japanese project that never took off in Japan – can’t remember names but try Waseda Uni in Tokyo). I believe there was one Economist article on how the village fund helped break villagers reliance on equipment loansharks/ rice cartel middlemen for equipment to harvest and mill the rice for sale (they rent these big equipment out to farmers at loanshark rates) by letting villagers group together to buy and share those equipment.
In terms of academic studies in Thailand, there is one study by Wichai Turongpun covering 19 provinces indicating that the fund increased debt rather than increased income. I’ll have to drop by NIDA to see what are the new studies in this area.
Seah Deang is no doubt a colorful character. Whoever he was, he did not deserve to be sniped so ignonimously. May he rest in peace.
igbymac:
I agree with you that it is painful that Taksin blew the chance at being a truly positive and historic figure for Thailand. Not because I like Taksin all that much, but because it is for me a yet another missed chance for Thailand to move forward – and I had so much hope when TRT was elected, and reelected by landslide. Regardless of what I think of the man, there ARE changes on the ground that is really amazing for me, as an observer of growing democracy, and as a social worker watching the improving opportunities for the rural folks.
For the rural folks, I must comment on and correct this statement of yours:
“Sept 19, 2006 was the military approach. May 2010 was the mob approach. All that is left is a replay of these failed solutions…”
I disagree: Sept 2006 was military approach. 2008 was mob approach by the educated urbane Bangkokians and it worked. 2010 was a replay of 2008 by the northern rural mass and it failed.
—
That was what happened – the mob rule was initiated by PAD and pro-establishment and pro-royalists. As of today, the PAD mob rule did not fail. It is unfortunately sadly successful, and Abhisit sits on the PM chair unelected. Freedom of speech in Thailand is now at a historic low, censorship at record high and those who do not like the establishment or do not ‘love the King’ now lives in fear and wears fake smiles nodding at snide comments about ‘water buffoloes’ and terrorists.
Just like the polls of 07, few would dare tell the truth of their feelings. The polls will return falling support for Reds’ movement and will be used by the Democrat Party to justify their actions. But the anger will simmer beneath. Elections will not be held until a mechanism can be worked out to assure that Democrat Party wins – and there is no doubt Democrat Party will win the next election and by a landslide. They were the chosen – as they were as far back as ’90s – only to have their long plotted for long term victory snatched from them by an underdog of the TRT party. The Courts will see to the return of DP as per orders from the de facto powers. Any other parties that even dares look a small challenge will be disbanded – but really, there is no party left that can do that.
Woow! 150 billions, that amount can definitely fund the red-shirt to stay in Ratprasong for years. It can also employs millions of Thai throughout the country to kick this government’s ass. If that amount is true, I think Thaksin would rather buy guns, bombs, war-planes and many other arms to fight this government. The red-shirt would be the one who shoot those army, instead of being shot. I think only fools without brain would believe in this tricky plot set up by the government.
While, as I already have shown, the DSI’s use of the 150 billion baht figure, made up as it is of all the combined deposits and withdrawals for some 83 individuals and companies, creates a ludicrous numerical hyperbole, nonetheless there is clearly a deeper purpose behind their fishing trip and it is the most likely explanation of why the State of Emergency is being kept in place long after the rally has ended and the rioters have been quelled. After all it is only under the terms of the SoE that such a fishing trip is made legally possible. And the case the government wants to make is that far more than a protest, a rally and a demand that the government resign, this was actually to be used as the starting point of an armed insurrection. It believes that satisfactory proof of this will justify its extreme violent action and also provide good cause to keep the military-dominated “Democrats” in power for as long as they deem necessary. There has already been talk of cancelling the next election and extending the government’s life for up to six years and longer if necessary. Maybe another Burma on the way.
Well, the Thai government has issued bonds to absorb this excess solvency in the market. The THB 1m cap per buyer ensures that retail investors will be able to buy the bond if they want to. However, it turned out only THB 80.7 bn government bond was sold despite the target of THB 100 bn. http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_news.php?newsid=TURObFkyOHhOekU0TURZMU13PT0=
Perhaps, the UDD leaders took too much and distributed too little to the villagers. Can you put these leaders into you calculation next times, Andrew? I’d like to know your estimation of their return.
I think the problem of where the funding came from poses some UDD supporters with a major problem. First we had the news that “some” lads from the Klong Toey area were earning large amounts of money for taking part in the protest. This was from a source that not many would want to argue with. Second, once the cops and accountants started to look at bank accounts there is pretty sure to be some smoking guns found. It’s in the nature of how we use money now-a-days that at certain points it usually touches the banking system.
I suspect many countries have money laundering laws that force the owner of the money to say where it came from and where it went on the minimum pain of having it confiscated. Now for those UDD leaders and supporters who always admitted that the movement was largely financed by Thaksin there is no problem. Why shouldn’t the man finance his own movement? That’s standard practice for politician’s in most of provincial Thailand anyway.
The problem is for those supporters who have been trying to distance themselves and the movement from Thaksin. They are the ones who have been in denial over the red shirt financing. To be fair this group doesn’t include the leadership of either the UDD or Puea Thai. It doesn’t even include some of the Thai academic UDD supporters who said they can live with this financing.
Whose reputation is hurt by the numbers gradually coming out are those on the left who tried to make the red shirt movement into something it wasn’t, an independent grass roots pro-democracy force. It hurts those overseas who have pushed the same line. In the end all they were doing was providing Thaksin with some respectability while he tried to buy himself a country through revolution or putsch, whichever word you prefer.
I have recently heard from a former Lao employee of NTPC that 80 villages are estimated to be located along the Xebangfai River downstream from where the NT2 dam is dumping water from its reservoir into the river.
Since the NTPC knew that the water quality coming from a large reservoir that flooded a large area of largely uncleared vegetation would lead to very low quality water releases, they made plans to drill wells for all 80 villages. They were all supposed to be finished and usable before the dam began to operate, so that people would at least have access to drinking water once the dam started operating. However, NTPC has apparently been unsuccessful in completing all the well. Moreover, many that were drilled do not work, or the water is contaminated with various minerals that have made the water undrinkable. So people are lacking drinking and water for domestic uses. They are also lacking water for their livestock. In addition, people have to look after their buffaloes and cattle much more closely now, to make sure they don’t drink the polluted water from the river. This is taking a lot of extra time. Some animals that have consumed the water have reportedly become sick and died.
I have also heard that NTPC is investigating a large number of reports from villages along the Xebangfai related to getting rashes and itchiness as a result of bathing in the river. This is to be expected, based on what we have seen for other rivers in the Mekong basin, such as the Nam Ngum River in Laos (below the Nam Ngum 1 dam), and the Sesan River in northeastern Cambodia (below the Yali Falls dam).
No Andrew, I’m totally caught out. I have no idea how the village fund works. I just supposed that it was run through the existing village administration. If I’m wrong I apologise for my obvious ignorance.
On the other hand if I were village headman, which by the way is one of the better examples of working democracy in Thailand, and I had some control over the use of the fund I suspect I would make sure I was re-elected and I would support the guy handing the money out.
I think many some people is having the misconception here, the numbers that DSI provided were the “total transaction amount” this means that they count every amount both deposited and withdrew so the number balloon to a much larger amount than what it seems to be.
Sae Daeng boasts of murdering over 20 ‘commies’ in his heyday, yet became the on-the-ground leader of the Red Shirt militant arm once he recently learned what ‘democracy’ was all about.
The irony is bitter.
The ability to squeeze a trigger with no comprehension of what one is doing, or why one is doing it, is profoundly ignorant.
_____________________
Now perhaps if Thaksin truly had the people of Thailand on his side, not just a few hundred-thousand squeaky wheels, he would have been restored to power in 48 hours like Hugo Chavez. Clearly something fundamental was missing from him earning, or was it retaining?, wide-spread, heart-felt appeal.
There is plenty of fault to go around, from the top to the bottom, from all sides of the political spectrum. In short, there remain three fundamental ways ahead, without accounting for the merit of each:
1) the fair application of the rule of law and Constitutional approach, which takes into concern all the people of the nation;
2) a military solution which imposes its will; or
3) mob rule.
Sept 19, 2006 was the military approach. May 2010 was the mob approach. All that is left is a replay of these failed solutions, or an acceptable approach under the rule of law.
Unfortunately, in Thailand, the rule of law is utterly meaningless within the psyche of the people. The importance of this cultural ‘value’ may take generations to change for the good. So until a figure can come along who warrants the peoples’ trust and has noble aspirations, Thailand will continue bouncing between mob insurrections and military coups.
It is painful to realize that Thaksin blew his chance at being a truly positive, historic figure for the country and the people. Instead, he left a wealthy billionaire a few times over, ethically bankrupt, and with a shameful life which even he must detest. I wonder who will emerge from the ashes to lead the way now, for better or worse?
Les Abbey, you wrote: “Andrew regarding Thaksin’s popularity in the Northeast while at the same time seeing a lower agricultural budget, could it be explained with the one million Baht village fund? It put village headmen into his pocket and the results we can see today.”
Can you explain how that works. How did headmen get control of the village fund? And how did headmen get villagers to vote a particular way? I would love to see reports, data or ethnographic observation on this.
A redsistributiuon of wealth from the veryu rich and powerful to the rich and powerful below them and in a few cases in creating a new rich and powerful
Buying powerbrokers and funding political campaigns costs lots of money and very littel ends up in the hands of the actual rally goers compared to what is remuneration for the middlemen. This is how Thai poltics works and only those who dont know how it works would be surprised at large amounts of money changing hands. Of course that doesnt fit certain memes about the red shirts but them agian they are only memes
The actual amounts are not the interesting part but the opportunity to actually for once to see at least parts of how these things work and hopefully more information will be rel;eased in the future. TYhis is an opportunity for Thai poltical organisation and culture to be studied from the financial perspective an area that is usually well hidden.
“The Thai armed forces support the reds and Thaksin because he paid them better, treated them better and had no competition or other propaganda while he did it.”
Did I read this correctly? “Thai armed force support the reds” the red wouldn’t running hiding rats now if that statement even hold 50% truth in it.
At the end of the day, there are many powerful groups who want their piece of the pie and are willing to do whatever it takes to get there, even using the Yellows & Reds as pawns. The endgame and ultimate trophy is going to be open soon.
Yes I agreed, but the main point is “the majority of the people” get the pie, and this is not the case today since the minority upper echelon of the society is controlling the huge chunk of the pie.
All the comments were really interesting except some comments that Thongchai wanted to say but didn’t dare to say it, due to the lese majeste law. I wonder how much more fun it would be if he can express freely. But I think most of the Thai know very well what really happened, and who were the real mastermind behind this massacre. They all know very well that Apisit didn’t have the gut to order this crackdown.
I think DSI just wanted to defame the red shirt supporters. I heard one policeman withdrew only 40K baht in the last 9 mths. What’s wrong with that amount? Or just because he withdrew the money at ATM by himself? Also, Veera actually has around 1M baht, not 10M as claim by DSI in his bank account (pls check his bank statement). Another military guy, at first, was accused to have almost 700M, but as it turns out – he has only 7M, from a family property. No need to mention others …
What DSI did is actually discredit itself. What a shame!
When Seh Daeng is cremated on the 22nd, let us see his legacy. He has a beautiful daughter who will continue his fight for justice.
Let us see his bank account. He was reported to be close to Thaksin but why DSI has not included his name in the list of 83 people ? Let us see if he has any hidden plot of land which encroaches on state property. But most important of all, let us see WHO attend his cremation.
Why Chai? Are you a gun-obsessed uniformed terrorist nutcase yourself? Or do you truly believe that mafias will deliver nirvana to your life without you actually having to lift a finger to help yourself. Hero worship of thugs is just lazy politics.
“The Thai armed forces support the reds and Thaksin because he paid them better, treated them better and had no competition or other propaganda while he did it.”
Dear Collin, is the above true? I know the soldiers are very very badly paid and treated. So if what you say is true, then, oh dear, you are really making me like Thaksin just a little more.
“Mind you Andrew a certain UDD leader has suddenly found himself 10 million Baht richer. He must have 2.5 million of someone else’s money I guess.”
Following Andrew’s simple and elegant (though not useful but clearly sarcastic) example, a possible respond correctly using the same analogy would be:
A certain UDD leader found himself 10m baht richer instead of only 20,000 baht. The Gini Coefficient for income inequality is clearly way off scale and Taksin obviously needed to improve that tremendously before he could be nominated.
By the way, your numbers are way off, that UDD leader should be having 9.98million of 499 others’ money.
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Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
I dont think many of the red are very interested in this release from the DSI
its the rich and wealthy that drool over money and get jealous if they see anyone else has some
the rich and wealthy will fill the pages with speculation and gleeful “evidence” of Thaksins influence and “control”
the rest of us just know that this whole thing is about the unhealthy military/amnart minority controlling Thailand for their own benefit riding on the backs of the rest of the Thai people
anyone that comments here should ponder on how much respect or contempt they are held by the current Thai ruling class, including the academics and business people that populate the Thai middle class and are predominant in commenting
if you toady they might throw you a few baht, if not then they will manipulate the law to get you
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
Andrew:
I suspect that Tarrin might be able to shed more light in terms of actual reports. My knowledge is sketchy, and only based on the few villagers I know and complains from a lot of my Bangkok friends.
As far as I know, the 1 million baht fund is available to all villagers. It is not tied to voting in any way. As of July 2001, almost all of the almost 75,000 villages opened account for the one million baht village fund. The TRT government, in accordance to its campaign promise, started transferring money on July 25th. There was no discrimination as to whether that village voted for or against Taksin or TRT. The villages were to managed their own money under the condition that once the money is gone, it will not be replaced. During that time was also the aftermath of the financial crisis and there are a lot of unemployed undergraduates, so the TRT government did “employ” some of these to help with the management of the fund. There were also complaints that in some cases, that local MPs (not the Kamnans) tries to interfere by bringing in their own people to tamper with how the money should be spent. There are rare cases where the money sat untouched in a village fund because the village had no project or no need of the money – one village in the Nan Province.
Conclusion of Effectiveness of the village fund is very mixed, and it cannot be viewed in isolation – not without taking into consideration other farmers loans mechanism and OTOP. But my perspective is that the key failure in the village fund is in its implementation: there is just not enough people who know how to manage that amount of money and many loans were made without proper checks on business plans. Many of those against the funds charged that half the loans were wasted because it went to repay loanshark debts instead of investing in businesses and a big deal was made of a case where a drug-dealer in the south used a loan from the fund to stock up on drugs. (However, perhaps the use of fund to repay loan-shark might help to endear grateful farmers to Taksin? I mean, its deadly to owe money to loansharks, but one only get blacklisted owing money to governments, and eventually those debts gets forgiven – see US financial crisis).
Then again, I learn in Management and MBA courses that only 5% of new businesses survive their first year, and even less survive the 5 year mark… so… I am not expecting high success rate for Village Fund.
Nevertheless, there are enough villages that made good with the village fund and OTOP was so successful I knew a group of Japanese academics flew down to Thailand to study this OTOP and charted its progress and evolution to MTOP – Multi-Tamboon One Product for export. (Note that OTOP was based on a Japanese project that never took off in Japan – can’t remember names but try Waseda Uni in Tokyo). I believe there was one Economist article on how the village fund helped break villagers reliance on equipment loansharks/ rice cartel middlemen for equipment to harvest and mill the rice for sale (they rent these big equipment out to farmers at loanshark rates) by letting villagers group together to buy and share those equipment.
In terms of academic studies in Thailand, there is one study by Wichai Turongpun covering 19 provinces indicating that the fund increased debt rather than increased income. I’ll have to drop by NIDA to see what are the new studies in this area.
Hope this helps.
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
Seah Deang is no doubt a colorful character. Whoever he was, he did not deserve to be sniped so ignonimously. May he rest in peace.
igbymac:
I agree with you that it is painful that Taksin blew the chance at being a truly positive and historic figure for Thailand. Not because I like Taksin all that much, but because it is for me a yet another missed chance for Thailand to move forward – and I had so much hope when TRT was elected, and reelected by landslide. Regardless of what I think of the man, there ARE changes on the ground that is really amazing for me, as an observer of growing democracy, and as a social worker watching the improving opportunities for the rural folks.
For the rural folks, I must comment on and correct this statement of yours:
“Sept 19, 2006 was the military approach. May 2010 was the mob approach. All that is left is a replay of these failed solutions…”
I disagree: Sept 2006 was military approach. 2008 was mob approach by the educated urbane Bangkokians and it worked. 2010 was a replay of 2008 by the northern rural mass and it failed.
—
That was what happened – the mob rule was initiated by PAD and pro-establishment and pro-royalists. As of today, the PAD mob rule did not fail. It is unfortunately sadly successful, and Abhisit sits on the PM chair unelected. Freedom of speech in Thailand is now at a historic low, censorship at record high and those who do not like the establishment or do not ‘love the King’ now lives in fear and wears fake smiles nodding at snide comments about ‘water buffoloes’ and terrorists.
Just like the polls of 07, few would dare tell the truth of their feelings. The polls will return falling support for Reds’ movement and will be used by the Democrat Party to justify their actions. But the anger will simmer beneath. Elections will not be held until a mechanism can be worked out to assure that Democrat Party wins – and there is no doubt Democrat Party will win the next election and by a landslide. They were the chosen – as they were as far back as ’90s – only to have their long plotted for long term victory snatched from them by an underdog of the TRT party. The Courts will see to the return of DP as per orders from the de facto powers. Any other parties that even dares look a small challenge will be disbanded – but really, there is no party left that can do that.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
Woow! 150 billions, that amount can definitely fund the red-shirt to stay in Ratprasong for years. It can also employs millions of Thai throughout the country to kick this government’s ass. If that amount is true, I think Thaksin would rather buy guns, bombs, war-planes and many other arms to fight this government. The red-shirt would be the one who shoot those army, instead of being shot. I think only fools without brain would believe in this tricky plot set up by the government.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
While, as I already have shown, the DSI’s use of the 150 billion baht figure, made up as it is of all the combined deposits and withdrawals for some 83 individuals and companies, creates a ludicrous numerical hyperbole, nonetheless there is clearly a deeper purpose behind their fishing trip and it is the most likely explanation of why the State of Emergency is being kept in place long after the rally has ended and the rioters have been quelled. After all it is only under the terms of the SoE that such a fishing trip is made legally possible. And the case the government wants to make is that far more than a protest, a rally and a demand that the government resign, this was actually to be used as the starting point of an armed insurrection. It believes that satisfactory proof of this will justify its extreme violent action and also provide good cause to keep the military-dominated “Democrats” in power for as long as they deem necessary. There has already been talk of cancelling the next election and extending the government’s life for up to six years and longer if necessary. Maybe another Burma on the way.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
Well, the Thai government has issued bonds to absorb this excess solvency in the market. The THB 1m cap per buyer ensures that retail investors will be able to buy the bond if they want to. However, it turned out only THB 80.7 bn government bond was sold despite the target of THB 100 bn. http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_news.php?newsid=TURObFkyOHhOekU0TURZMU13PT0=
Perhaps, the UDD leaders took too much and distributed too little to the villagers. Can you put these leaders into you calculation next times, Andrew? I’d like to know your estimation of their return.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
I think the problem of where the funding came from poses some UDD supporters with a major problem. First we had the news that “some” lads from the Klong Toey area were earning large amounts of money for taking part in the protest. This was from a source that not many would want to argue with. Second, once the cops and accountants started to look at bank accounts there is pretty sure to be some smoking guns found. It’s in the nature of how we use money now-a-days that at certain points it usually touches the banking system.
I suspect many countries have money laundering laws that force the owner of the money to say where it came from and where it went on the minimum pain of having it confiscated. Now for those UDD leaders and supporters who always admitted that the movement was largely financed by Thaksin there is no problem. Why shouldn’t the man finance his own movement? That’s standard practice for politician’s in most of provincial Thailand anyway.
The problem is for those supporters who have been trying to distance themselves and the movement from Thaksin. They are the ones who have been in denial over the red shirt financing. To be fair this group doesn’t include the leadership of either the UDD or Puea Thai. It doesn’t even include some of the Thai academic UDD supporters who said they can live with this financing.
Whose reputation is hurt by the numbers gradually coming out are those on the left who tried to make the red shirt movement into something it wasn’t, an independent grass roots pro-democracy force. It hurts those overseas who have pushed the same line. In the end all they were doing was providing Thaksin with some respectability while he tried to buy himself a country through revolution or putsch, whichever word you prefer.
Nam Theun 2: what about the Xe Bang Fai?
I have recently heard from a former Lao employee of NTPC that 80 villages are estimated to be located along the Xebangfai River downstream from where the NT2 dam is dumping water from its reservoir into the river.
Since the NTPC knew that the water quality coming from a large reservoir that flooded a large area of largely uncleared vegetation would lead to very low quality water releases, they made plans to drill wells for all 80 villages. They were all supposed to be finished and usable before the dam began to operate, so that people would at least have access to drinking water once the dam started operating. However, NTPC has apparently been unsuccessful in completing all the well. Moreover, many that were drilled do not work, or the water is contaminated with various minerals that have made the water undrinkable. So people are lacking drinking and water for domestic uses. They are also lacking water for their livestock. In addition, people have to look after their buffaloes and cattle much more closely now, to make sure they don’t drink the polluted water from the river. This is taking a lot of extra time. Some animals that have consumed the water have reportedly become sick and died.
I have also heard that NTPC is investigating a large number of reports from villages along the Xebangfai related to getting rashes and itchiness as a result of bathing in the river. This is to be expected, based on what we have seen for other rivers in the Mekong basin, such as the Nam Ngum River in Laos (below the Nam Ngum 1 dam), and the Sesan River in northeastern Cambodia (below the Yali Falls dam).
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
Can you explain how that works.
No Andrew, I’m totally caught out. I have no idea how the village fund works. I just supposed that it was run through the existing village administration. If I’m wrong I apologise for my obvious ignorance.
On the other hand if I were village headman, which by the way is one of the better examples of working democracy in Thailand, and I had some control over the use of the fund I suspect I would make sure I was re-elected and I would support the guy handing the money out.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
I think many some people is having the misconception here, the numbers that DSI provided were the “total transaction amount” this means that they count every amount both deposited and withdrew so the number balloon to a much larger amount than what it seems to be.
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
Sae Daeng boasts of murdering over 20 ‘commies’ in his heyday, yet became the on-the-ground leader of the Red Shirt militant arm once he recently learned what ‘democracy’ was all about.
The irony is bitter.
The ability to squeeze a trigger with no comprehension of what one is doing, or why one is doing it, is profoundly ignorant.
_____________________
Now perhaps if Thaksin truly had the people of Thailand on his side, not just a few hundred-thousand squeaky wheels, he would have been restored to power in 48 hours like Hugo Chavez. Clearly something fundamental was missing from him earning, or was it retaining?, wide-spread, heart-felt appeal.
There is plenty of fault to go around, from the top to the bottom, from all sides of the political spectrum. In short, there remain three fundamental ways ahead, without accounting for the merit of each:
1) the fair application of the rule of law and Constitutional approach, which takes into concern all the people of the nation;
2) a military solution which imposes its will; or
3) mob rule.
Sept 19, 2006 was the military approach. May 2010 was the mob approach. All that is left is a replay of these failed solutions, or an acceptable approach under the rule of law.
Unfortunately, in Thailand, the rule of law is utterly meaningless within the psyche of the people. The importance of this cultural ‘value’ may take generations to change for the good. So until a figure can come along who warrants the peoples’ trust and has noble aspirations, Thailand will continue bouncing between mob insurrections and military coups.
It is painful to realize that Thaksin blew his chance at being a truly positive, historic figure for the country and the people. Instead, he left a wealthy billionaire a few times over, ethically bankrupt, and with a shameful life which even he must detest. I wonder who will emerge from the ashes to lead the way now, for better or worse?
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
Les Abbey, you wrote: “Andrew regarding Thaksin’s popularity in the Northeast while at the same time seeing a lower agricultural budget, could it be explained with the one million Baht village fund? It put village headmen into his pocket and the results we can see today.”
Can you explain how that works. How did headmen get control of the village fund? And how did headmen get villagers to vote a particular way? I would love to see reports, data or ethnographic observation on this.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
A redsistributiuon of wealth from the veryu rich and powerful to the rich and powerful below them and in a few cases in creating a new rich and powerful
Buying powerbrokers and funding political campaigns costs lots of money and very littel ends up in the hands of the actual rally goers compared to what is remuneration for the middlemen. This is how Thai poltics works and only those who dont know how it works would be surprised at large amounts of money changing hands. Of course that doesnt fit certain memes about the red shirts but them agian they are only memes
The actual amounts are not the interesting part but the opportunity to actually for once to see at least parts of how these things work and hopefully more information will be rel;eased in the future. TYhis is an opportunity for Thai poltical organisation and culture to be studied from the financial perspective an area that is usually well hidden.
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
Collin – 8
“The Thai armed forces support the reds and Thaksin because he paid them better, treated them better and had no competition or other propaganda while he did it.”
Did I read this correctly? “Thai armed force support the reds” the red wouldn’t running hiding rats now if that statement even hold 50% truth in it.
At the end of the day, there are many powerful groups who want their piece of the pie and are willing to do whatever it takes to get there, even using the Yellows & Reds as pawns. The endgame and ultimate trophy is going to be open soon.
Yes I agreed, but the main point is “the majority of the people” get the pie, and this is not the case today since the minority upper echelon of the society is controlling the huge chunk of the pie.
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
All the comments were really interesting except some comments that Thongchai wanted to say but didn’t dare to say it, due to the lese majeste law. I wonder how much more fun it would be if he can express freely. But I think most of the Thai know very well what really happened, and who were the real mastermind behind this massacre. They all know very well that Apisit didn’t have the gut to order this crackdown.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
I think DSI just wanted to defame the red shirt supporters. I heard one policeman withdrew only 40K baht in the last 9 mths. What’s wrong with that amount? Or just because he withdrew the money at ATM by himself? Also, Veera actually has around 1M baht, not 10M as claim by DSI in his bank account (pls check his bank statement). Another military guy, at first, was accused to have almost 700M, but as it turns out – he has only 7M, from a family property. No need to mention others …
What DSI did is actually discredit itself. What a shame!
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
When Seh Daeng is cremated on the 22nd, let us see his legacy. He has a beautiful daughter who will continue his fight for justice.
Let us see his bank account. He was reported to be close to Thaksin but why DSI has not included his name in the list of 83 people ? Let us see if he has any hidden plot of land which encroaches on state property. But most important of all, let us see WHO attend his cremation.
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
Why Chai? Are you a gun-obsessed uniformed terrorist nutcase yourself? Or do you truly believe that mafias will deliver nirvana to your life without you actually having to lift a finger to help yourself. Hero worship of thugs is just lazy politics.
Translation of interview with Sae Daeng
Collin:
“The Thai armed forces support the reds and Thaksin because he paid them better, treated them better and had no competition or other propaganda while he did it.”
Dear Collin, is the above true? I know the soldiers are very very badly paid and treated. So if what you say is true, then, oh dear, you are really making me like Thaksin just a little more.
Thaksin’s greatest reform ever!
“Mind you Andrew a certain UDD leader has suddenly found himself 10 million Baht richer. He must have 2.5 million of someone else’s money I guess.”
Following Andrew’s simple and elegant (though not useful but clearly sarcastic) example, a possible respond correctly using the same analogy would be:
A certain UDD leader found himself 10m baht richer instead of only 20,000 baht. The Gini Coefficient for income inequality is clearly way off scale and Taksin obviously needed to improve that tremendously before he could be nominated.
By the way, your numbers are way off, that UDD leader should be having 9.98million of 499 others’ money.
Sorry, can’t resist econs.