The violent radical Reds had just committed a murderous rampage of arson, bombings and killings. And the recent devastation of Bangkok thereof is being compared to the 9/11 attack of New York city.
I am beginning to think that the comparison is very apt . There are common denominators in (a) the burnings/gutting of the buildings, and, (b) the attacks by remote commands by BinLaden and by Thaksin S. There is even a third denominator: the defenders of the vicious attacks cite righteousness as their justification. In the case of the AlQaeda attack, they cite the Koran. In the case of the May2010 Bangkok attacks, should the defenders cite New Mandala?
[Editor – NSF: Normally we probably wouldn’t allow this comment because of its abusive language. But I anticipate that right now it will be of wider interest and have, as such, allowed it through unedited.]
I can see that those white men who stick noses into Thai’s business ,and have tried to keep up do this stupid network with asshole Thaksin and his allies; you guys had better watch out your own domestic problems. White folks are just like the snakes spread world wild, especailly, those are waiting for a good time to jump into whenever see the chance. This’s call caucasian raptiles ! Go to fuck yourselves in hell !
Glad to see Jim Taylor’s apt comments on Pasuk and Baker (WSJ article May 21).
Their commentry was rather one-sided asking Thaksin to forgo some of his billions while ignoring the vast hoard of wealth on the other side of the equation.
My dream solution for Thailand has long been that Thaksin should do a Buddha and give his vast wealth to the people, after all he has already given up his wife and we can forgive him and welcome him home.
The problem with that is the other side would grab the money and continue living their obscenely Hiso lifestyles building even more Central Worlds to parade around in.
But if Thailand could do a double Buddha with its wise and beloved monarch doing exactly the same as co-Buddha Thaksin the problem could be solved and Bangkok could become a Mecca for Righteousness rather than Sex and Shopping.
Jim Taylor, why do you have the expecation that things ought to be fair? Since when has fairness/justice been achieved in any society let alone one in Southeast Asia? All privileged elites dislike democracy. Not just ones in Thailand. Just ask your colleague Prof. Downer! Isn’t it better to look at commentary on Thailand as part of the overall narrative, rather than some sort of tool overtly angling for social justice? Trying inoffensively to find the middle ground might actually end up helping to foster one. Pretty sure everyone over 40 needs to keep it real. Is your ardent support of one side over the other somehow less ridiculous?
And who do you propose they sell their rice to? I-San , which in many parts is only able to produce one paltry rice crop a year, is hardly the bread basket of Thailand. There’s a reason why ‘central’ Siam rose to prominence, centred initially around the fertile plains of Sukhothai and later Ayuthaya. I-San has never been in a position to dictate terms to anybody. That hasn’t changed. They are in no economic position to declare independence and go it alone. Their only choice is to force the urban elite into a new social contract within the existing economic sphere…by whatever means they deem appropriate (violence, is my best guess). There needs to be more equitable access across the existing the economic sphere – not a split of the existing sphere into unequal and independent pieces.
Regarding my comment #33 above:
In the light of further information, I no longer believe all that I wrote at that time.
In particular, I now view the idolization of one person (no matter whom) to be detrimental to the development of a fair, just and democratic society.
I therefore now disagree with the succession plan outlined at the conclusion of my old comment, as such a plan would enable Thailand to continue to be held back by it’s worst elements.
As to the other aspects of my original comment, I still think there is some validity to my comments, but also believe the country is in the current mess because some old dogs failed to learn some new tricks when the country badly needed them to.
Thomas Hoy,
I use an iMac and Safari which is normally instantaneous, however, the last few months NM has been slow to load. It just might be traffic.
As a retired person in Thailand it would be stupid to use my real name because then I would then be retired back in Australia.
Freedom of speech in Thailand depends on the whims of a nurse and her husband. The fern is from her; you are far too uneducated to make up your own mind, so she does it for you.
Pasuk and Baker (WSJ article May 21) once again show how stupid, contradictory and shallow an analysis where they try to navigate an impossible middle ground where this no longer exists. Sure- they dont want to offend the amaat. They need them. But my question: why should Thaksin come back to serve a sentence unfairly imposed by a skewed and corrupt judiciary put there by the coup-makers? there is nothing “heroic” about accepting an unfair judgement for an offence that would at best get a slap on the wrist or a fine. Fairness cuts both ways. get real guys.
I am not sure whether there will be, or perhaps has been, a breakup of Thailand as much as a fractionation of the myth of unity and harmony and an embarrassing demonstration by the disenfranchised that they really want, deserve, and demand some sort of equality. That four or five dozen were killed between April and may 2010 means little to the ruling elite (including Thaksin) who have had a good thing for a long time and don’t want anyone – especially the water buffalo from the northeast – to rock their boat. That was the issue with Thaksin: he rocked the boat by presenting a threat to their traditional control. That he was a Thai, sort of, caused even more alarm because it showed that the system was not going to support these guys forever and they needed to assess where they stood and how to defend themselves.
As usual, a mix of military where-with-all, legislation and willing supporters led to the Red Shirt defeat and a future where democracy is merely to be mocked in the Land of Smiles.
My personal concerns also involve mentalities like Akbar Khan and Pol. Col. Wattanasak who are on the cutting edge of voluntarily involving themselves in making sure the Thai people toe the line (and incurring Buddhist bad kharma from this practice). Strange that a Thai and foreigner can work so well together to bring what some see as shame and disgrace on an entire nation. Of course, I am not one of these. I have learned to admire the activities of these two, because they might conceivably contribute toward a true study of human nature vs. individual aberrations and motivations for the disparity.
Just read your report regarding being under fire at Soi Rangnam. Once again a stellar report you had my heart pounding mate, it was almost like being there.
You are certainly in my opinion heads and shoulders above rest and your poor wife she must have been pulling your her hair out.
Keep up the great work and by the way I hope you’re wearing a bullet proof vest during your missions.
I used to use Ultrasurf to navigate the Net for at least a couple of years from Thailand. However, i began to find last year that Ultrasurf wasn’t working as near as well as it used to, especially in regards to watching blocked videos. In the olden days of blocked YouTube vids Ultrasurf was pretty good.
I am now using Free VPN and it works great. When downloaded (almost instantly) you’ll be given a list of servers ‘free’ or ‘paid’ mainly from the USA and Euro. Click on a free one with no ‘offline’ after it and you’ll be surfing immediately. Blocked videos also download as well as dowloading direct.
Re: Video link by Updater #89 The person interviewing him mentions
“multiple snipers on Chula hospital”. That institution is utterly shameless
and its reputation is permanently damaged. Like the university of the same
name it has become a base for the most disgusting of intellectual reactionaries.
The government in Thailand has been widely criticized for their use of deadly force and censorship in its attempts to maintain peace in that country.
Arguably, the present leadership in Thailand was installed by the military to represent their interests. Maybe that’s true. Does it matter? Democracy from its birth has represented the most powerful factions in a society and in that part of the world, the military is certainly all of that.
For a moment though, lets leave the political catchwords behind and look at the performance of this government.
Thailand’s economy is the region’s second biggest, and the country has made incredible strides forward in the last 20 years. Thais rarely want to leave their country, and westerners flock there in droves. Foreign ownership and exploitation has been kept to a minimum. Government bureaucracy is far less burdensome than in almost any other country you might care to mention. Crime is at very low levels compared to just about anywhere.
This is a country people want to live.
Whatever you want to call the present government, they have been doing a good job. Kingdom, Democracy, Military Junta. Call it what you will, its working and working well.
If there is one fault they have manifested, its the lack of recognition of their own strength. If they were more confident in their position, this government could reach out with an open hand to protesters and dissidents and offer them a greater part in the creation of the paradise that Thailand could become.
Thanks to Suzy Wong for her excellent comments which are correct and confirmed by sources which cannot be disclosed for evident security reasons. I would like to add, that it is quite clear that several army units are opposed to shoot on Thai people and information has leaked out already mote than one week ago that the queen has given orders “to eradicate all reds”, but, it’s the king’s and the queen’s policy to “leave no fingerprints”.
I would like to add some more information about this unjustifiable way to treat people’s legitimate request for democracy. The first bloody incident took place on April 10 where apparently over 50 soldiers died and 200 were hurt by “friendly fire” i.e. military opposed to other fractions over this way to put an end to the peaceful demonstrations. It also appeared that the army engages mercenary’s (Karen, Cambodians, 2000 Bath a day plus 2000 Bath per head-shot) and uses also forces from the south which don’t speak or understand neither northern language nor eastern dialects and therefore are somehow immunized to the red’s explanations and also have no “red wives” at home. It’s also one of the reasons why the police forces have not been utilized despite the fact that they would have been the most appropriate force to break up the demonstrations which were carried out at certain periods by over 100’000 clearly unarmed people. You cannot qualify slings, firecrackers and homemade “rockets” as arms, material frequently used in European football matches and never gave any government the idea to bring in the army). It’s evident that the main responsible for killing people are the king’s and the queen’s guards. It seems that at one point the Navy was also asked to step in, but they refused because they didn’t want to be implicated in this shitty operation.
The buildings burnt in Bangkok belong mostly to the King/Queen. Besides that, it could be that some “owners” took the occasion to light up their property as the government has installed a special insurance to largely compensate the losses of the poor owners who also don’t pay property taxes.
To my opinion that’s what will go on in the near future: As it seems evident that now Thailand is again under an Army-Government and as the “soft” red leaders have rendered, the hardliners have gone underground and are preparing armed actions. You certainly will soon see bombings similar to the ones in the south (not as amateurish as the bomb placed by the army itself in Bangkok soon after Thaksin’s “departure”). The irresponsible generals and the puppet PM are best advised by continue to hide in army camps. The red populations have amassed so much frustration that there is no real way back and they now will only come the rest when the monarchy and all its lackeys and the corrupt army chiefs have been pushed aside, brought to justice or even “cleaned up” by an action similar to the one of Jerry Rawlings in Ghana in 1981.
It’s a false distinction, and you strain very much to try to define differences. No one in Thailand knows another monarch and monarchy but Bhumibol’s. So no one knows what it is like to support the institution beyond the person, or vice-versa. They are going to find out though.
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What next for Thailand?
What next for education? Nothing. Out of sight out of mind.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
chris beale (#12) and someone else (#10),
That’s exactly my point.
The violent radical Reds had just committed a murderous rampage of arson, bombings and killings. And the recent devastation of Bangkok thereof is being compared to the 9/11 attack of New York city.
I am beginning to think that the comparison is very apt . There are common denominators in (a) the burnings/gutting of the buildings, and, (b) the attacks by remote commands by BinLaden and by Thaksin S. There is even a third denominator: the defenders of the vicious attacks cite righteousness as their justification. In the case of the AlQaeda attack, they cite the Koran. In the case of the May2010 Bangkok attacks, should the defenders cite New Mandala?
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
[Editor – NSF: Normally we probably wouldn’t allow this comment because of its abusive language. But I anticipate that right now it will be of wider interest and have, as such, allowed it through unedited.]
I can see that those white men who stick noses into Thai’s business ,and have tried to keep up do this stupid network with asshole Thaksin and his allies; you guys had better watch out your own domestic problems. White folks are just like the snakes spread world wild, especailly, those are waiting for a good time to jump into whenever see the chance. This’s call caucasian raptiles ! Go to fuck yourselves in hell !
What next for Thailand?
I’ll take the easy one:
What next for General Anupong?
He retires with his ill gotten loot. This has actually all worked out reasonably well for him.
A much more interesting question would be who has more money, Anupong or Thaksin, but I doubt we’ll ever know the answer to that.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Re # 60
Glad to see Jim Taylor’s apt comments on Pasuk and Baker (WSJ article May 21).
Their commentry was rather one-sided asking Thaksin to forgo some of his billions while ignoring the vast hoard of wealth on the other side of the equation.
My dream solution for Thailand has long been that Thaksin should do a Buddha and give his vast wealth to the people, after all he has already given up his wife and we can forgive him and welcome him home.
The problem with that is the other side would grab the money and continue living their obscenely Hiso lifestyles building even more Central Worlds to parade around in.
But if Thailand could do a double Buddha with its wise and beloved monarch doing exactly the same as co-Buddha Thaksin the problem could be solved and Bangkok could become a Mecca for Righteousness rather than Sex and Shopping.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Jim Taylor, why do you have the expecation that things ought to be fair? Since when has fairness/justice been achieved in any society let alone one in Southeast Asia? All privileged elites dislike democracy. Not just ones in Thailand. Just ask your colleague Prof. Downer! Isn’t it better to look at commentary on Thailand as part of the overall narrative, rather than some sort of tool overtly angling for social justice? Trying inoffensively to find the middle ground might actually end up helping to foster one. Pretty sure everyone over 40 needs to keep it real. Is your ardent support of one side over the other somehow less ridiculous?
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
[…] Political Prisoners in Thailand was also blocked yesterday — Political Prisoners in Thailand and New Mandala is “temporarily curtailed” […]
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Stuart Goddard (36)
And who do you propose they sell their rice to? I-San , which in many parts is only able to produce one paltry rice crop a year, is hardly the bread basket of Thailand. There’s a reason why ‘central’ Siam rose to prominence, centred initially around the fertile plains of Sukhothai and later Ayuthaya. I-San has never been in a position to dictate terms to anybody. That hasn’t changed. They are in no economic position to declare independence and go it alone. Their only choice is to force the urban elite into a new social contract within the existing economic sphere…by whatever means they deem appropriate (violence, is my best guess). There needs to be more equitable access across the existing the economic sphere – not a split of the existing sphere into unequal and independent pieces.
20 May 1992
Eyewitness: Under fire in Thailand
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/eyewitness-under-fire-in-thailand-1977647.html
‘I promised. So I’ll stay until the soldiers come and shoot me’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7131331.ece
Here is a picture of the last person in Rachaprasong.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/716/t3223468783.jpg
The King Never Smiles?
Regarding my comment #33 above:
In the light of further information, I no longer believe all that I wrote at that time.
In particular, I now view the idolization of one person (no matter whom) to be detrimental to the development of a fair, just and democratic society.
I therefore now disagree with the succession plan outlined at the conclusion of my old comment, as such a plan would enable Thailand to continue to be held back by it’s worst elements.
As to the other aspects of my original comment, I still think there is some validity to my comments, but also believe the country is in the current mess because some old dogs failed to learn some new tricks when the country badly needed them to.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Thomas Hoy,
I use an iMac and Safari which is normally instantaneous, however, the last few months NM has been slow to load. It just might be traffic.
As a retired person in Thailand it would be stupid to use my real name because then I would then be retired back in Australia.
Freedom of speech in Thailand depends on the whims of a nurse and her husband. The fern is from her; you are far too uneducated to make up your own mind, so she does it for you.
Roger
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Pasuk and Baker (WSJ article May 21) once again show how stupid, contradictory and shallow an analysis where they try to navigate an impossible middle ground where this no longer exists. Sure- they dont want to offend the amaat. They need them. But my question: why should Thaksin come back to serve a sentence unfairly imposed by a skewed and corrupt judiciary put there by the coup-makers? there is nothing “heroic” about accepting an unfair judgement for an offence that would at best get a slap on the wrist or a fine. Fairness cuts both ways. get real guys.
Former Australian Foreign Minister calls for new election in Thailand
I am not sure whether there will be, or perhaps has been, a breakup of Thailand as much as a fractionation of the myth of unity and harmony and an embarrassing demonstration by the disenfranchised that they really want, deserve, and demand some sort of equality. That four or five dozen were killed between April and may 2010 means little to the ruling elite (including Thaksin) who have had a good thing for a long time and don’t want anyone – especially the water buffalo from the northeast – to rock their boat. That was the issue with Thaksin: he rocked the boat by presenting a threat to their traditional control. That he was a Thai, sort of, caused even more alarm because it showed that the system was not going to support these guys forever and they needed to assess where they stood and how to defend themselves.
As usual, a mix of military where-with-all, legislation and willing supporters led to the Red Shirt defeat and a future where democracy is merely to be mocked in the Land of Smiles.
My personal concerns also involve mentalities like Akbar Khan and Pol. Col. Wattanasak who are on the cutting edge of voluntarily involving themselves in making sure the Thai people toe the line (and incurring Buddhist bad kharma from this practice). Strange that a Thai and foreigner can work so well together to bring what some see as shame and disgrace on an entire nation. Of course, I am not one of these. I have learned to admire the activities of these two, because they might conceivably contribute toward a true study of human nature vs. individual aberrations and motivations for the disparity.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Hi Nick,
Just read your report regarding being under fire at Soi Rangnam. Once again a stellar report you had my heart pounding mate, it was almost like being there.
You are certainly in my opinion heads and shoulders above rest and your poor wife she must have been pulling your her hair out.
Keep up the great work and by the way I hope you’re wearing a bullet proof vest during your missions.
Take care,
Brendan.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
I used to use Ultrasurf to navigate the Net for at least a couple of years from Thailand. However, i began to find last year that Ultrasurf wasn’t working as near as well as it used to, especially in regards to watching blocked videos. In the olden days of blocked YouTube vids Ultrasurf was pretty good.
I am now using Free VPN and it works great. When downloaded (almost instantly) you’ll be given a list of servers ‘free’ or ‘paid’ mainly from the USA and Euro. Click on a free one with no ‘offline’ after it and you’ll be surfing immediately. Blocked videos also download as well as dowloading direct.
Search for “Free VPN download”
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
I can’t believe it, 47 thumbs up for Suzie Wong. Hilarious.
Guess where one of the thumbs down came from.
Burning, curfew
Re: Video link by Updater #89 The person interviewing him mentions
“multiple snipers on Chula hospital”. That institution is utterly shameless
and its reputation is permanently damaged. Like the university of the same
name it has become a base for the most disgusting of intellectual reactionaries.
Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
-The Flip Side-
The government in Thailand has been widely criticized for their use of deadly force and censorship in its attempts to maintain peace in that country.
Arguably, the present leadership in Thailand was installed by the military to represent their interests. Maybe that’s true. Does it matter? Democracy from its birth has represented the most powerful factions in a society and in that part of the world, the military is certainly all of that.
For a moment though, lets leave the political catchwords behind and look at the performance of this government.
Thailand’s economy is the region’s second biggest, and the country has made incredible strides forward in the last 20 years. Thais rarely want to leave their country, and westerners flock there in droves. Foreign ownership and exploitation has been kept to a minimum. Government bureaucracy is far less burdensome than in almost any other country you might care to mention. Crime is at very low levels compared to just about anywhere.
This is a country people want to live.
Whatever you want to call the present government, they have been doing a good job. Kingdom, Democracy, Military Junta. Call it what you will, its working and working well.
If there is one fault they have manifested, its the lack of recognition of their own strength. If they were more confident in their position, this government could reach out with an open hand to protesters and dissidents and offer them a greater part in the creation of the paradise that Thailand could become.
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
Thanks to Suzy Wong for her excellent comments which are correct and confirmed by sources which cannot be disclosed for evident security reasons. I would like to add, that it is quite clear that several army units are opposed to shoot on Thai people and information has leaked out already mote than one week ago that the queen has given orders “to eradicate all reds”, but, it’s the king’s and the queen’s policy to “leave no fingerprints”.
I would like to add some more information about this unjustifiable way to treat people’s legitimate request for democracy. The first bloody incident took place on April 10 where apparently over 50 soldiers died and 200 were hurt by “friendly fire” i.e. military opposed to other fractions over this way to put an end to the peaceful demonstrations. It also appeared that the army engages mercenary’s (Karen, Cambodians, 2000 Bath a day plus 2000 Bath per head-shot) and uses also forces from the south which don’t speak or understand neither northern language nor eastern dialects and therefore are somehow immunized to the red’s explanations and also have no “red wives” at home. It’s also one of the reasons why the police forces have not been utilized despite the fact that they would have been the most appropriate force to break up the demonstrations which were carried out at certain periods by over 100’000 clearly unarmed people. You cannot qualify slings, firecrackers and homemade “rockets” as arms, material frequently used in European football matches and never gave any government the idea to bring in the army). It’s evident that the main responsible for killing people are the king’s and the queen’s guards. It seems that at one point the Navy was also asked to step in, but they refused because they didn’t want to be implicated in this shitty operation.
The buildings burnt in Bangkok belong mostly to the King/Queen. Besides that, it could be that some “owners” took the occasion to light up their property as the government has installed a special insurance to largely compensate the losses of the poor owners who also don’t pay property taxes.
To my opinion that’s what will go on in the near future: As it seems evident that now Thailand is again under an Army-Government and as the “soft” red leaders have rendered, the hardliners have gone underground and are preparing armed actions. You certainly will soon see bombings similar to the ones in the south (not as amateurish as the bomb placed by the army itself in Bangkok soon after Thaksin’s “departure”). The irresponsible generals and the puppet PM are best advised by continue to hide in army camps. The red populations have amassed so much frustration that there is no real way back and they now will only come the rest when the monarchy and all its lackeys and the corrupt army chiefs have been pushed aside, brought to justice or even “cleaned up” by an action similar to the one of Jerry Rawlings in Ghana in 1981.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
It’s a false distinction, and you strain very much to try to define differences. No one in Thailand knows another monarch and monarchy but Bhumibol’s. So no one knows what it is like to support the institution beyond the person, or vice-versa. They are going to find out though.