In the spirit of non-violent protest would it not be time for UDD to cancel the protest and engage in a political process?
Jatuporn is quotes as saying the people will continue to fight. Is he still wearing his Mahatma Gandhi T shirt?
This is a huge risk for UDD. They are still betting on a mass popular uprising. If it doesn’t happen their only option will be to continue a campaign of guerilla warfare – hoping (reasonably realistically) that the military excess will push the masses to UDD.
It will be difficult for UDD leadership to deny some degree of responsibility for this unfolding disaster. Another blow for progressive politics in Thailand – if all it can offer is this
background to an unfolding massacre: Ok so its now also about army against army; seemingly conflicts emerging on the street as a high ranking affinal army relative of mine now out of the country says: starting since Prem’s time in the 1980s (holding three positons at once: min of Defence, Chief of Army, & PM)- favouring his people (the all-powerful annual promotion selections?); subsequent coups were attemping to bring replace the power monopoly controlled by Prem but he was leaning to the palace; every soldier is trained to have loyalty to the monarchy. Prem got to the monarchy first. He pulled the strings then and up to now…The monarcy are used. the king has no power since he appointed Prem (a BIG mistake but could not dispose of him). once the king’s mother died (& she was an effective power holding him together) – the rest…is decline. Few scholars have focused on this. Pity. In fact I would suggest that Prem’s military opposition are prepared to help Red Shirts- because if the later win they can fix the system which was scripted by Prem over past 30+ years. Any ideas out there?
[…] thunderers silent on Thailand (China.org.cn) Nick Nostitz in the killing zone Who and what is causing the Thailand confrontation? (Guardian) Asia-Pacific Socialists Show […]
Whether you agree with Ji Ungpakorn’s socialist views or not is one issue.
The overarching issue is that a sensible conversation cannot be held on these views in Thailand because it is illegal to read them.
Can we agree on this or would those who don’t like his views say that what they don’t agree with should be suppressed? I think that most of those commenting who think Giles is a boring writer or that socialism is outmoded would not think this means his views should be illegal.
But the Thai government (Thaksin’s too but it is getting worse now) believes that they have acorner on what is the right information and therefore have the right to suppress the wrong information.
– M79 hit the protesters at Ngam Du Plee (near Bon Kai), 4 injured
– At stage, leaving music on. Earlier, Nuttawut, the leader asked all protesters to be alert and not to panic. If the army come, just sit tight. Those elder, women, children are asked to evacuate to the temple. See pic.
– The tanks are moving in, waiting for further instruction. Guess it would be 8 a.m. The PR team is asking protesters to leave the site at Silom, Victory Monument.
There’s so many reason to kill a person, didn’t you learn anything from our bloody history? Didn’t you know the reason they use to shoot at the students in 1976? because they were commie, now what’s the reason? because they are terrorist. Dont you know the establishment’s old trick is a bit old already? why do people get fool all the time.
I told you what happened after 1976, Thailand was spiral into the 8 years of communist movement war that took unaccountable of lives and we are talking about no more than 10,000 students movement here. However, this time, the movement is much bigger, who knows what it will turn out this time.
after this event people will rise up and are already threatening to burn every sala-klaang (Govt Provincial Hall) in the country the ground; **black humour: Democrat Party & ASTV have just sent a death wreath to the Reds on stage…**CNN & other foerign News reporters asked to leave…Nuttawut just sent women and children to Wat Pathum
Urgent update via email: 04.00 hrs Bangkok Wednesday. At least forty armoured vehicles move out of army barracks to attack the Rajprasong protest site. Red Shirts move children and vulnerable people to a nearby temple.
“They have decided in their wisdom to protect the Thai people from the wrong information and to be the arbiters of truth. ”
Correct!
Thai’s are raised not to question anything they get dished up by a person higher in rank because if they would they would show disrespect – even if they would be right they have to humble and show respect – thus shut up.
Also Thai population has not the ability to judge a situation by what they hear and see, but what they are supposed to hear and see ordered by the government.
Do not think that this will stay or last another 10 years.
This foreign press has it all wrong. All these stories of being shot at, or executed with clean shots straight in the head when stepping outside the OWN door, are just propaganda and all the videos and photos bogus as demonstrated on Thai TV.
In my opinion CNN and BBC are a bit tame in their reporting and do not say out loud what is happening here. I spell it out: murder. Caught on video or with camera, by journalists that got shot at and people that move within the crowd.
A blog entry at http://www.somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers.html#comment-form
was describing the attitude of a part of Bangkok society in one sentence:
Red shirts are talked about by Thais as if they are not Thai – in fact as if they are some kind of aliens trying to invade Thailand.
Very true!
Massacre or not, a UDD leader admitted yesterday that Thaksin is funding the protests. The New York Times reported today that each time the parties have tried to negotiate a solution, the negotiations have broken down because the UDD insists that the government grant amnesty to Thaksin.
Add those facts together and what do you have? You have a “political movement” purporting to seek economic justice, equality and democracy, that is really just a shill for the ambitions of one of Thailand’s most venal politicians. The red-shirt movement’s various protests began in force after the Thai courts froze a few billion baht of Thaksin’s money. Just connect the dots. Maybe he’s seeking revenge, maybe he wants to return to Thailand to run for PM again so he can steal a few more billion baht and kill a few thousand more Thais (whether or not these deaths are a massacre, Thaksin’s summary execution of some 2,000 Thais in his war on drugs certainly was!). Either way, it’s hard to see the UDD as a legitimate social movement when Thaksin is pulling the strings.
Since BernardSG has raised the regency question I’ll add to that rumour mill. Other joint regents I’ve heard suggested are the CP and Sirindhorn. Prem is older than the king and cannot have too many more years ahead of him. However a friend of mine whose a bit of an expert in childhood problems and who’s had the opportunity to observe the young prince suggested to me that the child exhibits many of the classic symptoms of autism.
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Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
In the spirit of non-violent protest would it not be time for UDD to cancel the protest and engage in a political process?
Jatuporn is quotes as saying the people will continue to fight. Is he still wearing his Mahatma Gandhi T shirt?
This is a huge risk for UDD. They are still betting on a mass popular uprising. If it doesn’t happen their only option will be to continue a campaign of guerilla warfare – hoping (reasonably realistically) that the military excess will push the masses to UDD.
It will be difficult for UDD leadership to deny some degree of responsibility for this unfolding disaster. Another blow for progressive politics in Thailand – if all it can offer is this
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
background to an unfolding massacre: Ok so its now also about army against army; seemingly conflicts emerging on the street as a high ranking affinal army relative of mine now out of the country says: starting since Prem’s time in the 1980s (holding three positons at once: min of Defence, Chief of Army, & PM)- favouring his people (the all-powerful annual promotion selections?); subsequent coups were attemping to bring replace the power monopoly controlled by Prem but he was leaning to the palace; every soldier is trained to have loyalty to the monarchy. Prem got to the monarchy first. He pulled the strings then and up to now…The monarcy are used. the king has no power since he appointed Prem (a BIG mistake but could not dispose of him). once the king’s mother died (& she was an effective power holding him together) – the rest…is decline. Few scholars have focused on this. Pity. In fact I would suggest that Prem’s military opposition are prepared to help Red Shirts- because if the later win they can fix the system which was scripted by Prem over past 30+ years. Any ideas out there?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
[…] thunderers silent on Thailand (China.org.cn) Nick Nostitz in the killing zone Who and what is causing the Thailand confrontation? (Guardian) Asia-Pacific Socialists Show […]
Giles Ungpakorn on asset seizures, etc
Whether you agree with Ji Ungpakorn’s socialist views or not is one issue.
The overarching issue is that a sensible conversation cannot be held on these views in Thailand because it is illegal to read them.
Can we agree on this or would those who don’t like his views say that what they don’t agree with should be suppressed? I think that most of those commenting who think Giles is a boring writer or that socialism is outmoded would not think this means his views should be illegal.
But the Thai government (Thaksin’s too but it is getting worse now) believes that they have acorner on what is the right information and therefore have the right to suppress the wrong information.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Update at 6:43 a.m./ 19 May
– M79 hit the protesters at Ngam Du Plee (near Bon Kai), 4 injured
– At stage, leaving music on. Earlier, Nuttawut, the leader asked all protesters to be alert and not to panic. If the army come, just sit tight. Those elder, women, children are asked to evacuate to the temple. See pic.
http://rajdumnern.ownforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=658
– The tanks are moving in, waiting for further instruction. Guess it would be 8 a.m. The PR team is asking protesters to leave the site at Silom, Victory Monument.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
A reader has just through this link to live Reuters coverage from the streets of Bangkok.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Bangkok: This is a massacre
P – 65
There’s so many reason to kill a person, didn’t you learn anything from our bloody history? Didn’t you know the reason they use to shoot at the students in 1976? because they were commie, now what’s the reason? because they are terrorist. Dont you know the establishment’s old trick is a bit old already? why do people get fool all the time.
I told you what happened after 1976, Thailand was spiral into the 8 years of communist movement war that took unaccountable of lives and we are talking about no more than 10,000 students movement here. However, this time, the movement is much bigger, who knows what it will turn out this time.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Military crack down ongoing in Bon Kai area. all UN staff advised to stay indoors
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
after this event people will rise up and are already threatening to burn every sala-klaang (Govt Provincial Hall) in the country the ground; **black humour: Democrat Party & ASTV have just sent a death wreath to the Reds on stage…**CNN & other foerign News reporters asked to leave…Nuttawut just sent women and children to Wat Pathum
A chance for peace?
I read about the approaching 40 armoured vehicles from Ji Ungpakorn’s blogg. He adds:
On 17th May Matichon On Line reported that Abhisit’s Democrat Party said that the 35 deaths last week end were at “an acceptable level” since they were originally prepared for 200-500 civilian deaths. http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1274104360&catid=01
A professor of East-Asian studies in Stockholm was interviewed on Swedish TV: more deaths are necessary for the world to react(roughly)
Well, at least for a “democracy”…
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
watch live broadcast from stage at Rajprasong on Thai e-news http://thaienews.blogspot.com/
Long Live Democracy and the brave Red Movement!
A chance for peace?
advancing now towards Rajprasong stage; 10 six-wheel trucks, +armoured vehicles – massacre imminent
A chance for peace?
Urgent update via email: 04.00 hrs Bangkok Wednesday. At least forty armoured vehicles move out of army barracks to attack the Rajprasong protest site. Red Shirts move children and vulnerable people to a nearby temple.
A chance for peace?
“They have decided in their wisdom to protect the Thai people from the wrong information and to be the arbiters of truth. ”
Correct!
Thai’s are raised not to question anything they get dished up by a person higher in rank because if they would they would show disrespect – even if they would be right they have to humble and show respect – thus shut up.
Also Thai population has not the ability to judge a situation by what they hear and see, but what they are supposed to hear and see ordered by the government.
Do not think that this will stay or last another 10 years.
This foreign press has it all wrong. All these stories of being shot at, or executed with clean shots straight in the head when stepping outside the OWN door, are just propaganda and all the videos and photos bogus as demonstrated on Thai TV.
In my opinion CNN and BBC are a bit tame in their reporting and do not say out loud what is happening here. I spell it out: murder. Caught on video or with camera, by journalists that got shot at and people that move within the crowd.
A blog entry at http://www.somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers.html#comment-form
was describing the attitude of a part of Bangkok society in one sentence:
Red shirts are talked about by Thais as if they are not Thai – in fact as if they are some kind of aliens trying to invade Thailand.
Very true!
Giles Ungpakorn on asset seizures, etc
David # 17
“If there were more men or women as brave As Giles Umprakorn in Thailand”.
Excuse me – but Giles is NOT IN Thailand these days.
A chance for peace?
I found CRES website at http://www.capothai.org/
Not sure if others have already discovered it.
Day 5 – how much longer?
JBW, Nazis… again?
Haven’t we all agreed on stopping the Nazis debate?
If you want Nazis, Sondhi’s new party has a shiny green logo similar to one. How’s that for ‘quality’ debate?
Stop bringing up the short man with horrible mustache please. It’s not funny anymore.
A chance for peace?
Chris Hacker, which do you prefer? Thai Media spin, or the Foreign media spin?
Better yet, ASTV spin! 24 hours of pure entertainment!
Bangkok: This is a massacre
Massacre or not, a UDD leader admitted yesterday that Thaksin is funding the protests. The New York Times reported today that each time the parties have tried to negotiate a solution, the negotiations have broken down because the UDD insists that the government grant amnesty to Thaksin.
Add those facts together and what do you have? You have a “political movement” purporting to seek economic justice, equality and democracy, that is really just a shill for the ambitions of one of Thailand’s most venal politicians. The red-shirt movement’s various protests began in force after the Thai courts froze a few billion baht of Thaksin’s money. Just connect the dots. Maybe he’s seeking revenge, maybe he wants to return to Thailand to run for PM again so he can steal a few more billion baht and kill a few thousand more Thais (whether or not these deaths are a massacre, Thaksin’s summary execution of some 2,000 Thais in his war on drugs certainly was!). Either way, it’s hard to see the UDD as a legitimate social movement when Thaksin is pulling the strings.
Assumptions about the next in line
Since BernardSG has raised the regency question I’ll add to that rumour mill. Other joint regents I’ve heard suggested are the CP and Sirindhorn. Prem is older than the king and cannot have too many more years ahead of him. However a friend of mine whose a bit of an expert in childhood problems and who’s had the opportunity to observe the young prince suggested to me that the child exhibits many of the classic symptoms of autism.