Read in the context of the whole article which suggests (as his stance throughout 2006-8) that the two sides are the same, are equally bourgeois-capitalist. What’s remarkable in these passages is there’s no understanding the difference between different types of rule by the rulling elites or the different fractions among them. The emphases throughout, to put in bruntly, is “they are both equally bad, let oppose them both (at all times, places, in all cases).
Also compared with Thongchai’s article I mentioned above that, though – like Ji – sees the monarchy as bourgeois-capitalist, reaches political conclusion vastly diffently.
This technique of debating seems common on many webboards these days.
Are villagers happy that they have easier access to money? Yes, undoubtedly.
Are they wise managers of this money? From my observations (and these are just observations based on what I have seen or heard), much has been gambled away, and household debt has risen as a result of the scheme. Some manage it well, but many manage it poorly. While the study referred to does illustrate some beneficial aspects of the scheme, those who have simply lost the money and increased their debt are perhaps mostly outside the stats.
Is it a good scheme? Yes, and equal access is important. I think it highly likely that poor money-managers in the past will learn from mistakes, or copy the methods of those who have successfully used the loans in the future.
Glad to meet you too. Though I am a half Mon, our clan is too Burmanised to speak or read Mon language. Shame on us as I blame that on my grand parents. I think, that applies to most people of the whole delta. We are basically the Mon-Burmese mix. But I am willing to learn and I guess two languages are very similar.
But we’ve read bits and pieces of that “Yar-zar-da-yit Ahe-ye-daw-bone” at the school, and also learned a lot from the local folklore like the story of horseback duel between China’s Gar-ma-ni and Mon’s Tha-mein-ba-yan”. Taung-ngu’s Crown Prince Min-ye-kyaw-zwa was our favorite hero while we were growing up dreaming of becoming army officers.
I also found another site of you and downloaded parts of U Kala Mahayarzawindawgyi save Chapter 21 to 149, which wasn’t there. I honestly think these fascinating stories of warfare between Mon and Burmese, or between Thais and Burmese could easily be turned into very exciting novels in English, if we can find the willing publishers.
I used to live in Bangkok for a few years and pleasantly discovered that many Thais still revered our king Ba-yin-naung and they had books and a movie about him. But, I have to admit that I was shocked by the exhibits of Thai-Burmese wars in their National Museum though.
I still remember, whenever I told a Thai-Mon I am a half-Mon their eyes lit up and told me that famous General Arthit is a Mon too. In my eyes even the General Prem looks like a Mon. I honestly believe, because of that Mon common connection between us, Burmese and Thais are blood brothers and sisters.
Any way, just let me know if you have any particular task or project coming up. I am even willing to come and see you in Bangkok or even in Chaingrai.
Thanks again for what you have done for our culture.
Prior to abandoning this topic for my graduate thesis, my research was generally in accordance with the findings of the Nation’s article. All the people in the various villages that I spoke to regarding the VRF spoke highly of it as a source of credit that was otherwise unavailable to them. This was true for Phu yai baan, straight through to those doing rap-jang type work. I initially attributed the positive endorsements as a result of Thaksin-style “populist” rhetoric, but could it be true that some of Thaksin’s rural economic policies did produce outcomes beneficial to the said targets?
The first time I saw pictures of the Hpakant jade mines I was simultaneously awe struck by the amount of effort it took to create those huge holes in the ground (this was back when very little machinery was being used) and appalled when I thought about the environmental consequences of the mining. I had the same feeling seeing the photos in the report. In some perverse sense, it is a testament to the human spirit that people can accomplish something on this massive of a scale. I’m reminded of a line from a Midnight Oil song, “Nothing’s as precious as a hole in the ground…”
Hla Oo’s beheading story reminds me of a story I heard from some Kachin pastors regarding drug use at Hpakant. Apparently one Burmese Army officer attempted to suppress drug trafficking in the area, and refused a bribe from the drug dealers. The next day, according to the story, they found his head sticking on a pole. The next officer assigned to the area took the bribe.
Jadeite was also mined and used in Pre-Columbian Mesoamerica. I think the deposits are in Guatemala. I wonder if there has been any mining there in recent years.
[…] The Nation’s report was referring to this study of the village funds undertaken by Joseph P Kaboski and Robert M Townsend. The report makes for much more interesting reading than the headlines suggest. It is a useful contribution to the evaluation of an important Thaksin-era program.┬ All too often the local economic development policies of the Thaksin government are┬ dismissed as populist initiatives in vote-buying, without any serious analysis of their positive and negative impacts. (For previous New Mandala discussion on the village funds see this post.) […]
Somsak #12: “(Ji) advocate the sort of politics that sees no difference between bourgeois parliamentary politics and bourgois dictatorship. Since they are both bourgeois, let oppose them both! (see that part of his article on two ‘types’ of bourgeois rules where it implies no difference).”
I don’t think this is a correct or fair characterisation of Ji’s political stance. He certainly sees the difference, as he has been among the loudest voices against dictatorship and for parliamentary politics. Evidence is plenty. Most people here know this well.
Either Somsak misread or misrepresented Ji, I don’t know. But it is too convenient for Somsak to dismiss all other clear evidence of Ji’s opposition to dictatorship, but to rest his argument on “part of (Ji’s) article” that fits his mis-characterisation of Ji.
This technique of debating seems common on many webboards these days.
Whether or not we agree with Ji, we should be fair to him and we can respect his position without having to employ with this technique in making an argument.
Hi NKPVET,
if you actually took the time to read my book, you would not have made the comments you have made. The pen is mightier than any sword.
I’ll look forward to reading more on your quests. I must say I am amazed at how people are just handed government documents to scan. Tell us more.
Cheers,
Dave
Well, we’ve already been treated to the movie, “Blood Diamond” with Leonardo DiCaprio, about how diamonds fueled the war in Sierra Leone. He portrayed a jaded mercenary (this stuff writes itself) in search of the mother of all diamonds, all the while battling rebels, government thugs and even his fellow “mercs”.
I suppose that Sylvester Stallone can make a movie titled, “Blood Jade”, where he uses his walker to wage war against the junta in Burma. We can again see “mercs” – all holding the rank of colonel, of course – thrashing through the jungle, saving the Burmese from the evil junta and Bali gem traders.
The Kentucky legislature bestows the honorary rank of “Colonel” to citizens who have made a contribution to business in their state. That’s how Harlan Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken got his.
Making Sanders a colonel didn’t entitle him to take command of a battalion of state national guard troops and imediately launch an attack against the invading franchise, Boston Chicken.
Some of these guys need to get a grip on themselves, and stop dreaming of being another Michael Hoare of 5 Commando, or “Colonel Callan” of Angola infamy.
As for me, my wife has promoted me to the rank of Field Marshal, Supremo Numero Uno, for “extraordinary action”, if you catch my drift.
Dear NKPVET thank you for your positve posting. I like that you are useing this site for locating contacts and making friends, as every one should.
Here are just a few quick pointers to help you out…. I have never been given any title or rank with the KNU or KNLA. I simply went there to see what I could do to help and offer my advice, I understand your confussion about this and it is no big deal. I have never been paid by the KNLA and I would never work as a mercenary. The way I see it I am just helping the “GOOD GUYS” out. I have been called a Mercenary for this many times and do not feel insulted at your mentioning it.
Also the founder of the FBR likes to keep a low profile, so I think it would just be polite to respect his wishes and keep his name out of the open media as much as possible. I could forward a copy of this posting to him if you would like.
NKPVET just keep trying to do the right thing no matter what people tell you. We can move moutains if we all work together. Keep up the good work.
Joe Cummings: “One of the latest buzz terms used by national tourism offices (NTOs) in the region is “high-yield traveller”. On the face of it, the concept seems relatively clear: “We want visitors who leave behind a lot of money.” But who are the real high-yield travellers? Unfortunately, most south-east Asian NTOs define them as the visitors with the highest expenditure per day. The NTOs believe their task is simple: target the richest and most spendthrift.”
Yet [total] per-day expenditures are not the whole story. …”
Yep. The simple models used by the NTOs never seem to capture the complex reality on the ground, of farang migratory trends to Thailand. What about the many expats (especially recently Iraq war contractors) who come to Thailand with their earnings looking for a new life and buy a house and vehicle who spend literally millions of baht here in their initial outlay, and then after this becomes effectively their home, even more?
NTO policy seems to always ignores the fact that Thailand has developed a extensive fusion culture over time with many Europeans, for instance, permanently residing here. I work with luk krung and am forever bumping into luk krung. This has been going on a long time. How old is Tiger Woods? The Isan life detailed by a retired British lawyer in a book (reviewed by Bernard Trink recently as a model married man) and blog, must be fairly typical: “The Exotic Adventures of a Literary Sexagenarian, A retired law professor, Andrew Hicks regales readers with descriptions of his idyllic life in the rice fields of Thailand, …waxes lyrical about all matters Thai, both personal, agricultural and political.” (easy to find blog in google) I guess this fusion culture reality is avoided intellectually in official discussions of this topic for some reason. Who gets tourism expenditures varies with the type of tourist also. Street vendors and guest house owners are legitimate recipients of tourism money too, not just rich boutique hotel and resort owners.
Hla Oo: “I love your blog about Rajadhirat or Yar-zar-da-yit as we Burmese call him. If you need a translator from Burmese to English I could help. I am half Burmese, half Mon.”
Thanks. Glad to meet you. Thanks for the offer. That would be great. I recently got Emmanuelle Guillon’s translation of the first (Wareru, Magadu) part of the Mon language Rajadhirat, he includes two versions that are slightly different. I have done a translation of the Burmese version, that is more literal translation than the San Lwin version (e.g. dialogue is retained as dialogue as it wuite literally is in the Pak Lat version, San Lwin has done an invaluable service though in providing his translation, just needs some fine-tuning) and have been trying my hand at decoding (Rosetta stone style) the Pak Lat Mon version republished recently by the Mon scholar Nai Maung Toe at the national library. (All of Mon literature in the form of original palm leaf manuscripts supposedly exists fully scanned on a hard drive, which is exciting, because the same can’t be said for Burmese literature. The so-called legendary Monk of Athwa is definitely an author worth looking into.)
It would be nice to set up a collaborative translation but I don’t know of a Mon font as of yet. Do you know of one? One of these days I’m going to get up to Songkhlaburi and learn spoken Mon too.
When one side of the scale is under-paid, inhumanely treated workers and on another goverment, corporate giants, and free market customer. Guess who win?
“In Thailand, even an immensely popular and wealthy politician like Thaksin Shinawatra cannot match the authority wielded by the king.”
But of course that is stating the obvious. There is no man or woman in Thailand who could match the popularity and authority of HMK period.
“If the courts are now showing unprecedented steadfastness in pursuing Mr Thaksin, it could well be because they believe they have royal backing.”
The last sentence is the generally argued presumption on the matter of Thaksin/Potjaman’s and TRT’s past and ongoing judicial woes.
Had there been no coup and Thaksin managed to cling to power (despite the already many known serious transgressions committed by Thaksin & gang), would the Thai courts still be bold, and yes with HMK’s encouragement and backing? I would say yes, but only with royal backing of course considering Thaksin’s paranormal abilities to influence judges.
In a sense we can almost all agree that Thaksin still managed to cling to power up to now, despite the coup, because his nominee Samak is PM and his former TRT men continues to hold still the reins of power. There thus exist a tug of checks-and-balances that is working well and Thai justice is/was being served, therefore to Thaksin & cronies above.
And there is no argument that Thaksin & cronies were tried by ‘kangaroo courts’. Of course not! The judicial processes were carried out religiously above board and people only have to read the many judiciary lengthy decisions on every Thaksin/crony case to get the impression that justice was served fairly without judicial bias.
Now ask me in a few year’s time when Thailand has a new monarch whether or not the Thai judiciary could still be independent, fair and bold . . . But perhaps that is why the perciptible urgency NOW to complete all the many pending judicial cases against Thaksin & his cronies.
I believe that when we use loaded phrases like people who denigrate others that we should keep in mind one Thai government administration after another that has done this throughout their short and long-term incumbancies.
The PAD did not invent the patent here on class distinctions, but is merely fitting the mold.
Biased? You are reading more into the few lines i wrote to the pictures than there is. You have accused the PAD opponents of having set up ‘armed militias’. I would rather classify the “Udon lovers” as thugs, and not a “militia”. A militia needs a proper command structure, and i cannot see this (yet) with the pro Thaksin groups. Groups such as the “Udon Lovers” are more a band of thugs than anything else.
Yet – the PAD guards are what i might call the beginning of a militia, as they do have the command structure in place, and increasingly a uniformed appearance.
You write that you “hate” Thaksin and the present cabinet, and still find much wrong with the PAD. It appears to me that your emotional response towards Thaksin hinders you from a proper analyzes of the present political situation.
It is not speculation that PAD members are armed with swords and knifes – it is a fact that can be easily verified by speaking with police. Also on Thai TV this has been shown briefly, on the occasion of Sondhi Limthongkul surrendering to the Lese Majeste charges.
Again – there is much wrong with Thaksin, but that does not equate having to support the PAD. The PAD is the noisiest anti-Thaksin, anti-government pressure group, but given the many wrongs you have also listed (and including the ‘new politics’ debate) – the PAD is maybe further from the ideals of an egalitarian and democratic society than Thaksin ever was. No surprise that the two most powerful PAD leaders were early Thaksin supporters, and from the political right – Sondhi Limthongkul and Chamlong Srimuang – throughout the drug war killings and other assorted violations they have spend considerable effort to promote Thaksin’s politics.
Supporting this group means that you have to share their political ideals, and not just share their “hate” of Thaksin and the government. Otherwise your position might be seen as somewhat lacking logic. Especially because there are more choices available to support than those two sides.
Closing – i would wish that instead of emotional based response logical analyzes is applied here to asses the situation. Take the photos for what they show – civilians in arms which can hurt, maim, and even kill, members of a group that has always presented itself as ‘non-violent’.
In whatever violence that is, and will possibly come – you will have to hold both sides equally responsible as both sides are part of the circle of escalation.
Srithanonchai, I will never know if my question was too hard or you simply dislike it. I thought, being an academic, you are trained to be able to write abstracts of complex subject matter in 300-500 words. However I understand that it is very hard – often impossible – to see your own biases or prejudices. And the same applies to me, your biases/prejudices is so obvious to me – which probably only reflect my own. I read both Nicks and most of karmablues post – they are both highly articulate and rationale, but at the end of day, they see what they want to see (or they see what they are looking for)…
Just for fun – nothing serious – I will speculate the kind of academic work you do from your views. Are you a laboratory scientist who bring selected bits of the world to investigate in petri-dishes?!
I say that because I think it is too easy to remove the PAD from it’s Thai context and conclude that it is evil, dangerous for Thai democracy. It is as easy to do the same for the monarchy, the military, the police, the elected politicians, the judges, the bureaucrats – even the Thai voters for that matter – and say that, in their respective hands, Thai democracy is doomed. I maintain – as I always had – that those views/analysis will get you very far from lived realities of Thai politics, which is a very complex and dynamic interplay between all those institutions and individuals mentioned and much more.
The mix can be potentially violent I will not deny that – but at the same time, might just resolve itself, balance off rather beautifully – to the spectator’s amazement…
I love your blog about Rajadhirat or Yar-zar-da-yit as we Burmese call him. If you need a translator from Burmese to English I could help. I am half Burmese, half Mon.
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The king, the courts and the former PM
Reply to #29
See Ji’s article on the monarchy, Thai version (the English version distributed here doesn’t contain the paragraphs I’m talking about) at:
http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/page2.php?mod=mod_ptcms&ID=11011&Key=HilightNews
especially the last 6-7 paragraphs.
Read in the context of the whole article which suggests (as his stance throughout 2006-8) that the two sides are the same, are equally bourgeois-capitalist. What’s remarkable in these passages is there’s no understanding the difference between different types of rule by the rulling elites or the different fractions among them. The emphases throughout, to put in bruntly, is “they are both equally bad, let oppose them both (at all times, places, in all cases).
Also compared with Thongchai’s article I mentioned above that, though – like Ji – sees the monarchy as bourgeois-capitalist, reaches political conclusion vastly diffently.
This technique of debating seems common on many webboards these days.
Yes, indeed! You just provide a perfect example.
Thaksin’s village funds: “markedly pro-poor”
Are villagers happy that they have easier access to money? Yes, undoubtedly.
Are they wise managers of this money? From my observations (and these are just observations based on what I have seen or heard), much has been gambled away, and household debt has risen as a result of the scheme. Some manage it well, but many manage it poorly. While the study referred to does illustrate some beneficial aspects of the scheme, those who have simply lost the money and increased their debt are perhaps mostly outside the stats.
Is it a good scheme? Yes, and equal access is important. I think it highly likely that poor money-managers in the past will learn from mistakes, or copy the methods of those who have successfully used the loans in the future.
The horror of political violence in Burma
Hi Jon,
Glad to meet you too. Though I am a half Mon, our clan is too Burmanised to speak or read Mon language. Shame on us as I blame that on my grand parents. I think, that applies to most people of the whole delta. We are basically the Mon-Burmese mix. But I am willing to learn and I guess two languages are very similar.
But we’ve read bits and pieces of that “Yar-zar-da-yit Ahe-ye-daw-bone” at the school, and also learned a lot from the local folklore like the story of horseback duel between China’s Gar-ma-ni and Mon’s Tha-mein-ba-yan”. Taung-ngu’s Crown Prince Min-ye-kyaw-zwa was our favorite hero while we were growing up dreaming of becoming army officers.
I also found another site of you and downloaded parts of U Kala Mahayarzawindawgyi save Chapter 21 to 149, which wasn’t there. I honestly think these fascinating stories of warfare between Mon and Burmese, or between Thais and Burmese could easily be turned into very exciting novels in English, if we can find the willing publishers.
I used to live in Bangkok for a few years and pleasantly discovered that many Thais still revered our king Ba-yin-naung and they had books and a movie about him. But, I have to admit that I was shocked by the exhibits of Thai-Burmese wars in their National Museum though.
I still remember, whenever I told a Thai-Mon I am a half-Mon their eyes lit up and told me that famous General Arthit is a Mon too. In my eyes even the General Prem looks like a Mon. I honestly believe, because of that Mon common connection between us, Burmese and Thais are blood brothers and sisters.
Any way, just let me know if you have any particular task or project coming up. I am even willing to come and see you in Bangkok or even in Chaingrai.
Thanks again for what you have done for our culture.
Thaksin’s village funds: “markedly pro-poor”
Prior to abandoning this topic for my graduate thesis, my research was generally in accordance with the findings of the Nation’s article. All the people in the various villages that I spoke to regarding the VRF spoke highly of it as a source of credit that was otherwise unavailable to them. This was true for Phu yai baan, straight through to those doing rap-jang type work. I initially attributed the positive endorsements as a result of Thaksin-style “populist” rhetoric, but could it be true that some of Thaksin’s rural economic policies did produce outcomes beneficial to the said targets?
“Blood jade” and Burma
The first time I saw pictures of the Hpakant jade mines I was simultaneously awe struck by the amount of effort it took to create those huge holes in the ground (this was back when very little machinery was being used) and appalled when I thought about the environmental consequences of the mining. I had the same feeling seeing the photos in the report. In some perverse sense, it is a testament to the human spirit that people can accomplish something on this massive of a scale. I’m reminded of a line from a Midnight Oil song, “Nothing’s as precious as a hole in the ground…”
Hla Oo’s beheading story reminds me of a story I heard from some Kachin pastors regarding drug use at Hpakant. Apparently one Burmese Army officer attempted to suppress drug trafficking in the area, and refused a bribe from the drug dealers. The next day, according to the story, they found his head sticking on a pole. The next officer assigned to the area took the bribe.
Jadeite was also mined and used in Pre-Columbian Mesoamerica. I think the deposits are in Guatemala. I wonder if there has been any mining there in recent years.
Can farmers be trusted with debt? Part 2
[…] The Nation’s report was referring to this study of the village funds undertaken by Joseph P Kaboski and Robert M Townsend. The report makes for much more interesting reading than the headlines suggest. It is a useful contribution to the evaluation of an important Thaksin-era program.┬ All too often the local economic development policies of the Thaksin government are┬ dismissed as populist initiatives in vote-buying, without any serious analysis of their positive and negative impacts. (For previous New Mandala discussion on the village funds see this post.) […]
“Blood jade” and Burma
Burmese gems smuggled in to Thailand,India,SGP,so all should be a part of this Gem sanction
The king, the courts and the former PM
Somsak #12: “(Ji) advocate the sort of politics that sees no difference between bourgeois parliamentary politics and bourgois dictatorship. Since they are both bourgeois, let oppose them both! (see that part of his article on two ‘types’ of bourgeois rules where it implies no difference).”
I don’t think this is a correct or fair characterisation of Ji’s political stance. He certainly sees the difference, as he has been among the loudest voices against dictatorship and for parliamentary politics. Evidence is plenty. Most people here know this well.
Either Somsak misread or misrepresented Ji, I don’t know. But it is too convenient for Somsak to dismiss all other clear evidence of Ji’s opposition to dictatorship, but to rest his argument on “part of (Ji’s) article” that fits his mis-characterisation of Ji.
This technique of debating seems common on many webboards these days.
Whether or not we agree with Ji, we should be fair to him and we can respect his position without having to employ with this technique in making an argument.
Rambo and the real war in Burma
Hi NKPVET,
if you actually took the time to read my book, you would not have made the comments you have made. The pen is mightier than any sword.
I’ll look forward to reading more on your quests. I must say I am amazed at how people are just handed government documents to scan. Tell us more.
Cheers,
Dave
“Blood jade” and Burma
Well, we’ve already been treated to the movie, “Blood Diamond” with Leonardo DiCaprio, about how diamonds fueled the war in Sierra Leone. He portrayed a jaded mercenary (this stuff writes itself) in search of the mother of all diamonds, all the while battling rebels, government thugs and even his fellow “mercs”.
I suppose that Sylvester Stallone can make a movie titled, “Blood Jade”, where he uses his walker to wage war against the junta in Burma. We can again see “mercs” – all holding the rank of colonel, of course – thrashing through the jungle, saving the Burmese from the evil junta and Bali gem traders.
Rambo and the real war in Burma
The Kentucky legislature bestows the honorary rank of “Colonel” to citizens who have made a contribution to business in their state. That’s how Harlan Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken got his.
Making Sanders a colonel didn’t entitle him to take command of a battalion of state national guard troops and imediately launch an attack against the invading franchise, Boston Chicken.
Some of these guys need to get a grip on themselves, and stop dreaming of being another Michael Hoare of 5 Commando, or “Colonel Callan” of Angola infamy.
As for me, my wife has promoted me to the rank of Field Marshal, Supremo Numero Uno, for “extraordinary action”, if you catch my drift.
Rambo and the real war in Burma
Dear NKPVET thank you for your positve posting. I like that you are useing this site for locating contacts and making friends, as every one should.
Here are just a few quick pointers to help you out…. I have never been given any title or rank with the KNU or KNLA. I simply went there to see what I could do to help and offer my advice, I understand your confussion about this and it is no big deal. I have never been paid by the KNLA and I would never work as a mercenary. The way I see it I am just helping the “GOOD GUYS” out. I have been called a Mercenary for this many times and do not feel insulted at your mentioning it.
Also the founder of the FBR likes to keep a low profile, so I think it would just be polite to respect his wishes and keep his name out of the open media as much as possible. I could forward a copy of this posting to him if you would like.
NKPVET just keep trying to do the right thing no matter what people tell you. We can move moutains if we all work together. Keep up the good work.
A new era for tourism in Southeast Asia?
Joe Cummings: “One of the latest buzz terms used by national tourism offices (NTOs) in the region is “high-yield traveller”. On the face of it, the concept seems relatively clear: “We want visitors who leave behind a lot of money.” But who are the real high-yield travellers? Unfortunately, most south-east Asian NTOs define them as the visitors with the highest expenditure per day. The NTOs believe their task is simple: target the richest and most spendthrift.”
Yet [total] per-day expenditures are not the whole story. …”
Yep. The simple models used by the NTOs never seem to capture the complex reality on the ground, of farang migratory trends to Thailand. What about the many expats (especially recently Iraq war contractors) who come to Thailand with their earnings looking for a new life and buy a house and vehicle who spend literally millions of baht here in their initial outlay, and then after this becomes effectively their home, even more?
NTO policy seems to always ignores the fact that Thailand has developed a extensive fusion culture over time with many Europeans, for instance, permanently residing here. I work with luk krung and am forever bumping into luk krung. This has been going on a long time. How old is Tiger Woods? The Isan life detailed by a retired British lawyer in a book (reviewed by Bernard Trink recently as a model married man) and blog, must be fairly typical: “The Exotic Adventures of a Literary Sexagenarian, A retired law professor, Andrew Hicks regales readers with descriptions of his idyllic life in the rice fields of Thailand, …waxes lyrical about all matters Thai, both personal, agricultural and political.” (easy to find blog in google) I guess this fusion culture reality is avoided intellectually in official discussions of this topic for some reason. Who gets tourism expenditures varies with the type of tourist also. Street vendors and guest house owners are legitimate recipients of tourism money too, not just rich boutique hotel and resort owners.
The horror of political violence in Burma
Hla Oo: “I love your blog about Rajadhirat or Yar-zar-da-yit as we Burmese call him. If you need a translator from Burmese to English I could help. I am half Burmese, half Mon.”
Thanks. Glad to meet you. Thanks for the offer. That would be great. I recently got Emmanuelle Guillon’s translation of the first (Wareru, Magadu) part of the Mon language Rajadhirat, he includes two versions that are slightly different. I have done a translation of the Burmese version, that is more literal translation than the San Lwin version (e.g. dialogue is retained as dialogue as it wuite literally is in the Pak Lat version, San Lwin has done an invaluable service though in providing his translation, just needs some fine-tuning) and have been trying my hand at decoding (Rosetta stone style) the Pak Lat Mon version republished recently by the Mon scholar Nai Maung Toe at the national library. (All of Mon literature in the form of original palm leaf manuscripts supposedly exists fully scanned on a hard drive, which is exciting, because the same can’t be said for Burmese literature. The so-called legendary Monk of Athwa is definitely an author worth looking into.)
It would be nice to set up a collaborative translation but I don’t know of a Mon font as of yet. Do you know of one? One of these days I’m going to get up to Songkhlaburi and learn spoken Mon too.
“Blood jade” and Burma
Two words: “Who cares?”
When one side of the scale is under-paid, inhumanely treated workers and on another goverment, corporate giants, and free market customer. Guess who win?
The king, the courts and the former PM
“In Thailand, even an immensely popular and wealthy politician like Thaksin Shinawatra cannot match the authority wielded by the king.”
But of course that is stating the obvious. There is no man or woman in Thailand who could match the popularity and authority of HMK period.
“If the courts are now showing unprecedented steadfastness in pursuing Mr Thaksin, it could well be because they believe they have royal backing.”
The last sentence is the generally argued presumption on the matter of Thaksin/Potjaman’s and TRT’s past and ongoing judicial woes.
Had there been no coup and Thaksin managed to cling to power (despite the already many known serious transgressions committed by Thaksin & gang), would the Thai courts still be bold, and yes with HMK’s encouragement and backing? I would say yes, but only with royal backing of course considering Thaksin’s paranormal abilities to influence judges.
In a sense we can almost all agree that Thaksin still managed to cling to power up to now, despite the coup, because his nominee Samak is PM and his former TRT men continues to hold still the reins of power. There thus exist a tug of checks-and-balances that is working well and Thai justice is/was being served, therefore to Thaksin & cronies above.
And there is no argument that Thaksin & cronies were tried by ‘kangaroo courts’. Of course not! The judicial processes were carried out religiously above board and people only have to read the many judiciary lengthy decisions on every Thaksin/crony case to get the impression that justice was served fairly without judicial bias.
Now ask me in a few year’s time when Thailand has a new monarch whether or not the Thai judiciary could still be independent, fair and bold . . . But perhaps that is why the perciptible urgency NOW to complete all the many pending judicial cases against Thaksin & his cronies.
A way forward for Thai politics?
I believe that when we use loaded phrases like people who denigrate others that we should keep in mind one Thai government administration after another that has done this throughout their short and long-term incumbancies.
The PAD did not invent the patent here on class distinctions, but is merely fitting the mold.
PAD – ready for violence
in response to “Karmablues”:
Biased? You are reading more into the few lines i wrote to the pictures than there is. You have accused the PAD opponents of having set up ‘armed militias’. I would rather classify the “Udon lovers” as thugs, and not a “militia”. A militia needs a proper command structure, and i cannot see this (yet) with the pro Thaksin groups. Groups such as the “Udon Lovers” are more a band of thugs than anything else.
Yet – the PAD guards are what i might call the beginning of a militia, as they do have the command structure in place, and increasingly a uniformed appearance.
You write that you “hate” Thaksin and the present cabinet, and still find much wrong with the PAD. It appears to me that your emotional response towards Thaksin hinders you from a proper analyzes of the present political situation.
It is not speculation that PAD members are armed with swords and knifes – it is a fact that can be easily verified by speaking with police. Also on Thai TV this has been shown briefly, on the occasion of Sondhi Limthongkul surrendering to the Lese Majeste charges.
Again – there is much wrong with Thaksin, but that does not equate having to support the PAD. The PAD is the noisiest anti-Thaksin, anti-government pressure group, but given the many wrongs you have also listed (and including the ‘new politics’ debate) – the PAD is maybe further from the ideals of an egalitarian and democratic society than Thaksin ever was. No surprise that the two most powerful PAD leaders were early Thaksin supporters, and from the political right – Sondhi Limthongkul and Chamlong Srimuang – throughout the drug war killings and other assorted violations they have spend considerable effort to promote Thaksin’s politics.
Supporting this group means that you have to share their political ideals, and not just share their “hate” of Thaksin and the government. Otherwise your position might be seen as somewhat lacking logic. Especially because there are more choices available to support than those two sides.
Closing – i would wish that instead of emotional based response logical analyzes is applied here to asses the situation. Take the photos for what they show – civilians in arms which can hurt, maim, and even kill, members of a group that has always presented itself as ‘non-violent’.
In whatever violence that is, and will possibly come – you will have to hold both sides equally responsible as both sides are part of the circle of escalation.
PAD – ready for violence
Srithanonchai, I will never know if my question was too hard or you simply dislike it. I thought, being an academic, you are trained to be able to write abstracts of complex subject matter in 300-500 words. However I understand that it is very hard – often impossible – to see your own biases or prejudices. And the same applies to me, your biases/prejudices is so obvious to me – which probably only reflect my own. I read both Nicks and most of karmablues post – they are both highly articulate and rationale, but at the end of day, they see what they want to see (or they see what they are looking for)…
Just for fun – nothing serious – I will speculate the kind of academic work you do from your views. Are you a laboratory scientist who bring selected bits of the world to investigate in petri-dishes?!
I say that because I think it is too easy to remove the PAD from it’s Thai context and conclude that it is evil, dangerous for Thai democracy. It is as easy to do the same for the monarchy, the military, the police, the elected politicians, the judges, the bureaucrats – even the Thai voters for that matter – and say that, in their respective hands, Thai democracy is doomed. I maintain – as I always had – that those views/analysis will get you very far from lived realities of Thai politics, which is a very complex and dynamic interplay between all those institutions and individuals mentioned and much more.
The mix can be potentially violent I will not deny that – but at the same time, might just resolve itself, balance off rather beautifully – to the spectator’s amazement…
The horror of political violence in Burma
Jon,
I love your blog about Rajadhirat or Yar-zar-da-yit as we Burmese call him. If you need a translator from Burmese to English I could help. I am half Burmese, half Mon.
Thanks for the links to U Nu’s works too.