Thanks for posting your views on lese majeste, and the link to Anand’s opinion.
Anand is a slick operator: Incidentally, it is not only the Thai people, but even the Thai government. Every time there is a book published which was critical of the king, the people who are very nervous about this thing would be the government. They would ban the book, they would ban the film, they would ban this, they would ban that; they would block this, they would block that. Do you know why? There is a reason for that. They were fearful that if they did not do anything, they would be castigated by the people. So, in fact, you can not blame the government. They merely responded to the perceived feelings of the people.
Like you and Anand, I don’t like the lese majeste law, but I also think Anand’s comments are a bit of a cop out, and he really is trying to have the cake and eat it too.
There are numerous matters where governments need to lead the people away from relying on their base instincts, and IMO overhaul of the lese majeste laws is a prime example.
btw, you have not yet answered my questions about the Privy Council (see comment #40 above)
Can the more well-informed among you comment on the conjectures of Stephenson in “The Revolutionary King”? In particular, how do you assess the conclusion that Phibun Songkhram gave the order, and Tsuji Masanobu carried it out disguised as a monk?
The idea of Phibun giving the order makes a LOT of sense to me, and explains Bhumibol’s generally acquiescent behavior until Prem came to power.
Excellent observation jonfernquest.
I’ve read the English transcript, and as a person with political aspirations/ambitions (and an extremely smart, articulate and intellectual person), I am surprised Jakrapob said that knowing the Thai votes he’s canvassing. Maybe this inability to empathize with the electorate also contributed to his loss both in 2005 and 2007 elections?
On the other hand, this was clearly not meant for the Thai voters’ ears, but at least for PMThaksin – to express his loyalty and for PMThaksin’s continued patronage (the irony of it all, really). He was richly rewarded ofcourse in PMSamak’s government, but has proven quite interventionist (to put it mildly) in public and private medias. And maybe, as jonfernquest implied, the LM card was played (which also implies the very sad state the Thai ‘rule of law’ and ‘checks and balances’ is in – which I think is more fundamental than debates about LM’s abuses).
In that case, it is not about criticism of the monarchy’s or PMPrem’s role (which at least academics such as AjarnJi – or AjarnSomsak here – still, I understand, have space to do), but rather real politics at work. Or it might simply be, as someone said earlier, a confused Jakrapob with too many hats to wear. Here, it was a difficult one between intellectual integrity and political ambition – and Jakrapob did indeed seem to have hung himself (especially once his patron refused to back him up)…
Ah KhunJop, you’ve happened to enter the wrong site! This is, on the whole, an anti-monarchy website and displays of royalty will often be torn to shreds in NM (and a fellow Thai, Teth, has been especially effective in chasing all royalist Thais off the site!).
As a un-networked monarchist, I remain engaged as it is also a very high quality Thai and Southeast Asian Studies blog (the best I know of) – where you can get updates on the best research. And I also enjoy the generally high quality opinions expressed here (with big academic names in the area interviewed by Nicholas Farrelly – and even commenting on blogs occasionally).
If you are a fellow academic, I hope you stay engaged as you will certainly find it very useful, if not intellectually stimulating. As a fellow royalist (with “yellow-tinted” glass!), I hope you do! It can get lonely here!
I am not asking about your “private life” or “life story” Teth – but merely your “lived memory of Thai politics”. You are protesting the question without reading it carefully! I am certain you are more than capable to differentiate between the two…
And it is highly relevant, as we are still discussing contemporary Thai politics amongst other issues (and not ‘Teth’s personal life’ as misunderstood – unless, one day, you become a major player ofcourse!).
And finally, some humble admissions from you Teth as another common Thai like the rest of us. A well-meaning advice which you probably won’t take, if you’d like to change Thai society “one person at a time” as you mentioned – first, learn to respect your fellow Thais and their views. If this:
“I simply take pleasure in pointing out Thai people’s contradictions and hypocrisy”
sums up your attitude, then you will not “developed and matured” any arguments… You are doing a lot of preaching Teth (preaching things we’ll never know you practice as you say) – why don’t you start listening and reading carefully for a change. You can start with my original question – and not your misreading of it. Ofcourse, it is still your full right not to (as I expect you to do)…
Even before he is charged, the message of the case is that anyone who publicly criticizes the monarchy or Prem is potentially in trouble. As various military leaders explained, private comment is fine [from members of the elite?], but if you go public, that is more than they can stand.
I suspect that this speech will be seen as an important statement of opposition to the monarchy.
jonfernquest: It seems to me that you have missed the point of the talk, which was certainly not about pre-modern history. Rather, he seems to have made that very brief excursion into history to explain the royalist conception of kingship.
Jop: Thanks for your tirade of royalist nonsense. None of what you say is unfamiliar to anyone who studies the monarchy and its role in Thailand. Teth showed you the deal on the awards. Senior Thai diplomats know that they are sent out to seek awards for the king and other royals – even the crown prince has received honorary degrees. Believe away, support PAD and the army.
It’s tough to set aside time to write when the USA campaign is going blazing hot!
It’s a tough call to ask for a boycott of Thailand, yet, the country’s elite and selfish many have been asking for it for a long time. Human rights issues are first and foremost impetus for the idea of a boycott, but so is criminal complicity in the failure to warn those thousands in the south before the tsunami struck. I will forever regret Thai society, media and political leadership not going ahead with an investigation and public report of what really happened. Of course, the same thing goes for Khrue Sae, Takbai, and all those Octobers in the past that have left blood on the streets.
Ji Ungpakorn: “Who uses lèse majesté and to what purpose?”
People who can’t fight back in any way and are getting real desperate.
It’s one of those weapons of the weak (James Scott). It’s the proverbial Ramkhamhang bell.
When people get frustrated from a lack of rule of law, will they be ruled by law?
Was there really any deep probe and action on all the infelicities of the drug war?
Does the dismissal of the DSI chief in charge of the Ample Rich case mean that this tightest case against Thaksin will never proceed? et, etc…
Does a democratic mandate license you to do whatever you want?
Ji Ungpakorn: “Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
The real question might be whether Jakrapop actually cared about what he was going to say.
At the beginning it looks like he doesn’t know what he’s going to say yet, but it’s clear he’s very angry, having just got out of jail.
My favorite part is when Jonathan Head hands him the noose. Here Jacky boy, you want to go back to jail?
It reminds of this very noir’ish TV drama rerun from the 1960s where this ghoulish middle-aged couple were trying to lure a young woman into climbing up on to a chair and put a noose around her neck and then hang herself. I don’t know how it ended, because I turned off the channel. Too terrible and frightening.
Ashoka’s Changemakers and National Geographic Need Your Vote: Select the World’s Most Innovative Uses of Geotourism
Join Ashoka’s Changemakers and National Geographic in the Geotourism Challenge, a worldwide search for leading innovations that help destinations benefit from tourism while protecting the assets that make these places special. Transformative ideas have poured in from 84 countries that demonstrate ways for tourism to do the most good and the least harm.
Now it’s your turn: Log onto http://www.changemakers.net and select your three favorites from the 15 finalists by June 11. All finalists are invited to attend the National Geographic and Ashoka’s Changemakers Change Summit in Fall 2008, and the three winners will receive $5,000 each.
Never did I say it must go. This is a good example of you not listening to what I actually have to say.
Next, when I said:
Lastly, I suspect that the Thais without internet access would only be able to see and hear one side of the story. Shame.
I said it in a tongue-in-cheek manner. I referenced the fact that you think Thais without Internet access are unable to express their overwhelming support for the King and I agree. They will not be able to express their support, but in the meantime neither will they be privy to other information that can be found on the Internet. I was only saying what you were saying.
I do understand the difference between being presented a prize and buying a prize. But I thought the whole point was that the King was presented with prestigious, internationally recognized prizes that can’t be bought on the market, like a Nobel prize?
This ties into the whole point about the UN and its diplomacy policy of giving out empty prizes. You say:
Well, but I guess since the UN and its agencies made some positive comments about the King and endorsed his achievements, now all of those organizations’ work and the things that they did for humanity, all those UN people tirelessly working away for the greater good in refugee camps, etc, well all that just doesn’t matter anymore.
And undeniably the UN has done good things for the world. But what about its puzzling condemnation of Israel? What has the UN been able to do in Gaza? Aren’t UN peacekeepers abusing children? Why has the UN allowed genocide to continue in Sudan? Simple. The UN is an organization that needs to maintain diplomacy and national sovereignty and a good way to get to people’s hearts is by giving gifts. This doesn’t mean I am suggesting the UN or U Berkeley are part of a conspiracy. In fact, it is far from that straw man argument you have constructed.
Take your yellow-tinted glasses and try reading my comments again. I can assure you that I never insinuated there is a conspiracy, all I said was that many international organizations are fond of sweet talk and empty praises. That’s why its called diplomacy.
BTW, Jop, I never assassinated the King’s character. I only tried to critically examine these international prizes. After all, shouldn’t we be wary of flattery from the outside? Maybe they have a plan…. (Oh no!)
Never did I promise any disclosure, because, quite frankly, it is irrelevant and will be used as irrelevant ammunition as you always do, Sidh. It is not a case of honesty or integrity. I did not swindle, trick, or lie to anyone. You are demanding an invasion into my private life that I am not willing to disclose except that I was born and raised as a regular royalist and have since seen the light. So stop being so demanding when you have right to.
I write about 1976 just like you write about the drug war. We were both not “there” in space AND time to see drug dealers being shot. We can only observe through the lenses of people who have passed their experience and information on to us.
Also, when have I been blind to recent state abuses? On the contrary, I condemn both Thaksin and the palace. Please don’t be blind, deaf, or dumb with regards to this. I don’t need to repeat myself anymore, neither should you be repeating your groundless, mindless accusations.
I have never claimed to be superior. In fact, I am flawed, as we all are. However, I am able to criticize myself and receive valid criticism (not blind ad hominem). And change. Indeed, I never claimed to be a good Buddhist, nor did I ever claim to be a member of any religion. I merely pointed out the inherent hypocrisy of people who protect “Nation, Religion, King” blindly.
I have integrety in what I preach. My actions are irrelevant in this forum because you cannot observe what I do, you can only judge based on what I say and I can lie to prove my point, but I won’t. I have criticized myself before, admitted my errors when I was in error, and so forth. But as usual, Sidh, you have managed to sidetrack the issue and go straight to the mudslinging. Are you able to face up to what I have repeatedly tried to say before your subsequent side-tracks? Or will you just brush it aside without giving it consideration, being afraid of what you mind find?
So, in the end, what is my hypocrisy? I have never asked you to reveal your life story. I have never asked you to be a good Buddhist. And as I have said, my “story” (or yours for that matter) is irrelevant to our discussion, which is the main reason I chose not to reveal it. But you still manage to sidetrack us and assault my “integrity” rather than my argument, so now is my turn to respond in good faith. Sidh, you are a hard-headed and sometimes arrogant character. When you argue, you have the ability to sidetrack opponents and mire the actual arguments and evidence in obscurity. You simply ignore and discard arguments you cannot argue against and focus on irrelevant ones that you can. Will we ever reach a conclusion? Have any of the actual arguments developed and matured? Have we looked at any new arguments, any new evidence? Any nuance added?
To answer all these questions, no. I end up shouting the same things while you end up dressing something else as an argument. So goodbye, Sidh, and best of luck. Hope you will leave your state of denial soon, because you cannot serve two masters. Holding the views you hold are not wrong, but holding it and claiming them to be something else is.
Without meaning any disrespect to his majesty I cant help feeling that his attitude towards the lese majeste laws must be somewhat ambivalent. On the one hand, HM clearly appreciates that the laws protect him from criticism and thereby assist those who would cultivate an adoration of himself amongst the Thai populace. On the other hand, the king is aware that the western audience from who he also seeks approval (presumably) regards such laws as an appalling infringement on self expression.
I wonder if critics might argue that his majesty is playing both fields at the same time: condemning the lese majeste laws publicly (catering to ‘the west’) but privately determined that these laws remain in force to sustain the royal image.
I think that you would agree on one point: if the laws were not in place the king would not be held in such high regard. Many suspect there are skeletons in the cupboard (you’ve heard the rumours).
(ps. To the Thai authorities which regularly monitor the contents of this site, please accept that I will really make an effort to more restrained in my comments in the future. )
[…] Awzar Thi of the Rule of Lords has reacted vigorously to the claim made at the ANU discussion on Cyclone Nargis that there had been “exaggerated, overly emotional and unsubstantiated media […]
I really would like a copy of either the Thai or English of the book, or both. Is it possible to receive on electronically?
I am doing research on lese majeste here in Thailand as part of a book that covers my experiences in the subject as a victim, and need to have some information that provides background for my research. I thank anyone who may be able to assist.
Sincerely,
Frank G Anderson
I would like to add: The Democrat party is being badly led and Abhisit should step down as its leader. It has gone from being a party of hope for institutional change to one of a bunch of clowns who seem to think the public is paying them to solely discredit the PPP. Why it has chosen to do this when the PPP doesn’t need any help in discrediting itself is beyond me. Instead its only reason for being seems to be to embarass the embarassment. Pointless.
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Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
Thanks for posting your views on lese majeste, and the link to Anand’s opinion.
Anand is a slick operator:
Incidentally, it is not only the Thai people, but even the Thai government. Every time there is a book published which was critical of the king, the people who are very nervous about this thing would be the government. They would ban the book, they would ban the film, they would ban this, they would ban that; they would block this, they would block that. Do you know why? There is a reason for that. They were fearful that if they did not do anything, they would be castigated by the people. So, in fact, you can not blame the government. They merely responded to the perceived feelings of the people.
Like you and Anand, I don’t like the lese majeste law, but I also think Anand’s comments are a bit of a cop out, and he really is trying to have the cake and eat it too.
There are numerous matters where governments need to lead the people away from relying on their base instincts, and IMO overhaul of the lese majeste laws is a prime example.
btw, you have not yet answered my questions about the Privy Council (see comment #40 above)
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
Can the more well-informed among you comment on the conjectures of Stephenson in “The Revolutionary King”? In particular, how do you assess the conclusion that Phibun Songkhram gave the order, and Tsuji Masanobu carried it out disguised as a monk?
The idea of Phibun giving the order makes a LOT of sense to me, and explains Bhumibol’s generally acquiescent behavior until Prem came to power.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
I have provided an update to this post with some new material provided by New Mandala readers.
“Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
Excellent observation jonfernquest.
I’ve read the English transcript, and as a person with political aspirations/ambitions (and an extremely smart, articulate and intellectual person), I am surprised Jakrapob said that knowing the Thai votes he’s canvassing. Maybe this inability to empathize with the electorate also contributed to his loss both in 2005 and 2007 elections?
On the other hand, this was clearly not meant for the Thai voters’ ears, but at least for PMThaksin – to express his loyalty and for PMThaksin’s continued patronage (the irony of it all, really). He was richly rewarded ofcourse in PMSamak’s government, but has proven quite interventionist (to put it mildly) in public and private medias. And maybe, as jonfernquest implied, the LM card was played (which also implies the very sad state the Thai ‘rule of law’ and ‘checks and balances’ is in – which I think is more fundamental than debates about LM’s abuses).
In that case, it is not about criticism of the monarchy’s or PMPrem’s role (which at least academics such as AjarnJi – or AjarnSomsak here – still, I understand, have space to do), but rather real politics at work. Or it might simply be, as someone said earlier, a confused Jakrapob with too many hats to wear. Here, it was a difficult one between intellectual integrity and political ambition – and Jakrapob did indeed seem to have hung himself (especially once his patron refused to back him up)…
Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
Ah KhunJop, you’ve happened to enter the wrong site! This is, on the whole, an anti-monarchy website and displays of royalty will often be torn to shreds in NM (and a fellow Thai, Teth, has been especially effective in chasing all royalist Thais off the site!).
As a un-networked monarchist, I remain engaged as it is also a very high quality Thai and Southeast Asian Studies blog (the best I know of) – where you can get updates on the best research. And I also enjoy the generally high quality opinions expressed here (with big academic names in the area interviewed by Nicholas Farrelly – and even commenting on blogs occasionally).
If you are a fellow academic, I hope you stay engaged as you will certainly find it very useful, if not intellectually stimulating. As a fellow royalist (with “yellow-tinted” glass!), I hope you do! It can get lonely here!
Samak’s talents!
I am not asking about your “private life” or “life story” Teth – but merely your “lived memory of Thai politics”. You are protesting the question without reading it carefully! I am certain you are more than capable to differentiate between the two…
And it is highly relevant, as we are still discussing contemporary Thai politics amongst other issues (and not ‘Teth’s personal life’ as misunderstood – unless, one day, you become a major player ofcourse!).
And finally, some humble admissions from you Teth as another common Thai like the rest of us. A well-meaning advice which you probably won’t take, if you’d like to change Thai society “one person at a time” as you mentioned – first, learn to respect your fellow Thais and their views. If this:
“I simply take pleasure in pointing out Thai people’s contradictions and hypocrisy”
sums up your attitude, then you will not “developed and matured” any arguments… You are doing a lot of preaching Teth (preaching things we’ll never know you practice as you say) – why don’t you start listening and reading carefully for a change. You can start with my original question – and not your misreading of it. Ofcourse, it is still your full right not to (as I expect you to do)…
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
р╕Вр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕Др╕╕р╕У Paul р╕бр╕▓р╕Бр╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕Ъ
Thanks Khun Paul Handley for your thought.
“Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
Congratulations Ji. A most useful intervention.
Even before he is charged, the message of the case is that anyone who publicly criticizes the monarchy or Prem is potentially in trouble. As various military leaders explained, private comment is fine [from members of the elite?], but if you go public, that is more than they can stand.
I suspect that this speech will be seen as an important statement of opposition to the monarchy.
What did Jakrapob say?
jonfernquest: It seems to me that you have missed the point of the talk, which was certainly not about pre-modern history. Rather, he seems to have made that very brief excursion into history to explain the royalist conception of kingship.
Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
Jop: Thanks for your tirade of royalist nonsense. None of what you say is unfamiliar to anyone who studies the monarchy and its role in Thailand. Teth showed you the deal on the awards. Senior Thai diplomats know that they are sent out to seek awards for the king and other royals – even the crown prince has received honorary degrees. Believe away, support PAD and the army.
Lèse majesté and the BBC
Boycott?
3 June 2008
It’s tough to set aside time to write when the USA campaign is going blazing hot!
It’s a tough call to ask for a boycott of Thailand, yet, the country’s elite and selfish many have been asking for it for a long time. Human rights issues are first and foremost impetus for the idea of a boycott, but so is criminal complicity in the failure to warn those thousands in the south before the tsunami struck. I will forever regret Thai society, media and political leadership not going ahead with an investigation and public report of what really happened. Of course, the same thing goes for Khrue Sae, Takbai, and all those Octobers in the past that have left blood on the streets.
“Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
Ji Ungpakorn: “Who uses lèse majesté and to what purpose?”
People who can’t fight back in any way and are getting real desperate.
It’s one of those weapons of the weak (James Scott). It’s the proverbial Ramkhamhang bell.
When people get frustrated from a lack of rule of law, will they be ruled by law?
Was there really any deep probe and action on all the infelicities of the drug war?
Does the dismissal of the DSI chief in charge of the Ample Rich case mean that this tightest case against Thaksin will never proceed? et, etc…
Does a democratic mandate license you to do whatever you want?
Ji Ungpakorn: “Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
The real question might be whether Jakrapop actually cared about what he was going to say.
At the beginning it looks like he doesn’t know what he’s going to say yet, but it’s clear he’s very angry, having just got out of jail.
My favorite part is when Jonathan Head hands him the noose. Here Jacky boy, you want to go back to jail?
It reminds of this very noir’ish TV drama rerun from the 1960s where this ghoulish middle-aged couple were trying to lure a young woman into climbing up on to a chair and put a noose around her neck and then hang herself. I don’t know how it ended, because I turned off the channel. Too terrible and frightening.
The Irrawaddy on Burma tourism
Ashoka’s Changemakers and National Geographic Need Your Vote: Select the World’s Most Innovative Uses of Geotourism
Join Ashoka’s Changemakers and National Geographic in the Geotourism Challenge, a worldwide search for leading innovations that help destinations benefit from tourism while protecting the assets that make these places special. Transformative ideas have poured in from 84 countries that demonstrate ways for tourism to do the most good and the least harm.
Now it’s your turn: Log onto http://www.changemakers.net and select your three favorites from the 15 finalists by June 11. All finalists are invited to attend the National Geographic and Ashoka’s Changemakers Change Summit in Fall 2008, and the three winners will receive $5,000 each.
Your voice is vital. Vote today!
“Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
Thank you, Dr. Ji, for a clear and bold (in this context) statement.
Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
Jop,
Look at what I have said again.
If it has outlived its usefulness, it must go.
Never did I say it must go. This is a good example of you not listening to what I actually have to say.
Next, when I said:
Lastly, I suspect that the Thais without internet access would only be able to see and hear one side of the story. Shame.
I said it in a tongue-in-cheek manner. I referenced the fact that you think Thais without Internet access are unable to express their overwhelming support for the King and I agree. They will not be able to express their support, but in the meantime neither will they be privy to other information that can be found on the Internet. I was only saying what you were saying.
I do understand the difference between being presented a prize and buying a prize. But I thought the whole point was that the King was presented with prestigious, internationally recognized prizes that can’t be bought on the market, like a Nobel prize?
This ties into the whole point about the UN and its diplomacy policy of giving out empty prizes. You say:
And undeniably the UN has done good things for the world. But what about its puzzling condemnation of Israel? What has the UN been able to do in Gaza? Aren’t UN peacekeepers abusing children? Why has the UN allowed genocide to continue in Sudan? Simple. The UN is an organization that needs to maintain diplomacy and national sovereignty and a good way to get to people’s hearts is by giving gifts. This doesn’t mean I am suggesting the UN or U Berkeley are part of a conspiracy. In fact, it is far from that straw man argument you have constructed.
Take your yellow-tinted glasses and try reading my comments again. I can assure you that I never insinuated there is a conspiracy, all I said was that many international organizations are fond of sweet talk and empty praises. That’s why its called diplomacy.
BTW, Jop, I never assassinated the King’s character. I only tried to critically examine these international prizes. After all, shouldn’t we be wary of flattery from the outside? Maybe they have a plan…. (Oh no!)
Samak’s talents!
Never did I promise any disclosure, because, quite frankly, it is irrelevant and will be used as irrelevant ammunition as you always do, Sidh. It is not a case of honesty or integrity. I did not swindle, trick, or lie to anyone. You are demanding an invasion into my private life that I am not willing to disclose except that I was born and raised as a regular royalist and have since seen the light. So stop being so demanding when you have right to.
I write about 1976 just like you write about the drug war. We were both not “there” in space AND time to see drug dealers being shot. We can only observe through the lenses of people who have passed their experience and information on to us.
Also, when have I been blind to recent state abuses? On the contrary, I condemn both Thaksin and the palace. Please don’t be blind, deaf, or dumb with regards to this. I don’t need to repeat myself anymore, neither should you be repeating your groundless, mindless accusations.
I have never claimed to be superior. In fact, I am flawed, as we all are. However, I am able to criticize myself and receive valid criticism (not blind ad hominem). And change. Indeed, I never claimed to be a good Buddhist, nor did I ever claim to be a member of any religion. I merely pointed out the inherent hypocrisy of people who protect “Nation, Religion, King” blindly.
I have integrety in what I preach. My actions are irrelevant in this forum because you cannot observe what I do, you can only judge based on what I say and I can lie to prove my point, but I won’t. I have criticized myself before, admitted my errors when I was in error, and so forth. But as usual, Sidh, you have managed to sidetrack the issue and go straight to the mudslinging. Are you able to face up to what I have repeatedly tried to say before your subsequent side-tracks? Or will you just brush it aside without giving it consideration, being afraid of what you mind find?
So, in the end, what is my hypocrisy? I have never asked you to reveal your life story. I have never asked you to be a good Buddhist. And as I have said, my “story” (or yours for that matter) is irrelevant to our discussion, which is the main reason I chose not to reveal it. But you still manage to sidetrack us and assault my “integrity” rather than my argument, so now is my turn to respond in good faith. Sidh, you are a hard-headed and sometimes arrogant character. When you argue, you have the ability to sidetrack opponents and mire the actual arguments and evidence in obscurity. You simply ignore and discard arguments you cannot argue against and focus on irrelevant ones that you can. Will we ever reach a conclusion? Have any of the actual arguments developed and matured? Have we looked at any new arguments, any new evidence? Any nuance added?
To answer all these questions, no. I end up shouting the same things while you end up dressing something else as an argument. So goodbye, Sidh, and best of luck. Hope you will leave your state of denial soon, because you cannot serve two masters. Holding the views you hold are not wrong, but holding it and claiming them to be something else is.
Exhibition: The King – “Father of Thai Innovation”
Without meaning any disrespect to his majesty I cant help feeling that his attitude towards the lese majeste laws must be somewhat ambivalent. On the one hand, HM clearly appreciates that the laws protect him from criticism and thereby assist those who would cultivate an adoration of himself amongst the Thai populace. On the other hand, the king is aware that the western audience from who he also seeks approval (presumably) regards such laws as an appalling infringement on self expression.
I wonder if critics might argue that his majesty is playing both fields at the same time: condemning the lese majeste laws publicly (catering to ‘the west’) but privately determined that these laws remain in force to sustain the royal image.
I think that you would agree on one point: if the laws were not in place the king would not be held in such high regard. Many suspect there are skeletons in the cupboard (you’ve heard the rumours).
(ps. To the Thai authorities which regularly monitor the contents of this site, please accept that I will really make an effort to more restrained in my comments in the future. )
Summary of discussion at ANU on Cyclone Nargis
[…] Awzar Thi of the Rule of Lords has reacted vigorously to the claim made at the ANU discussion on Cyclone Nargis that there had been “exaggerated, overly emotional and unsubstantiated media […]
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
2 June 2008
I really would like a copy of either the Thai or English of the book, or both. Is it possible to receive on electronically?
I am doing research on lese majeste here in Thailand as part of a book that covers my experiences in the subject as a victim, and need to have some information that provides background for my research. I thank anyone who may be able to assist.
Sincerely,
Frank G Anderson
“Does anyone care what Jakrapop actually said?”
Agree with Ji’s comments.
I would like to add: The Democrat party is being badly led and Abhisit should step down as its leader. It has gone from being a party of hope for institutional change to one of a bunch of clowns who seem to think the public is paying them to solely discredit the PPP. Why it has chosen to do this when the PPP doesn’t need any help in discrediting itself is beyond me. Instead its only reason for being seems to be to embarass the embarassment. Pointless.
Democrat Party my ass.