If the chicken originated in SE Asia the broiler chickens are coming home to roast, er, fry.
Personally I prefer KFC to McDonald’s since I like burgers less than fried chicken, and I suspect many Burmese from habit and tradition consider fried chicken a higher class non-vegetarian food than a beef burger. Because chicken was always more expensive than beef, perhaps still is, contrary to western markets, also less available and shunned by many because of the association of the cattle with farming and not the dinner table.
Our popular Nat spirit Ko Gyi Kyaw (U Min Kyaw) is typically portrayed holding a fried chicken in one hand and a drink in the other. That’s class to some, worshippers and non-believers alike.
Serge Pun is known for the Pun Hlaing Estate and more recently Star City over on Thanlyin (Syriam) side of the river. Naturally he caters for the moneyed and rent seeking class, not least the nouveau riche generals and their families. By the same token affordable fried chicken will not be a frequent culinary experience for most people, rural or urban, until the broiler chickens from army chicken farms and others become cheaper.
A Burmese trickle-down looks as elusive as a Burmese middle class bulge.
Wish we could all be as optimistic as Nich. A nice and cosy very middle class and rather narcissistic notion of themselves as important and aspirational members of the globalised consumer society with a bit of disposable income becoming the agents of change. Evolution not revolution, naturally. An evolutionary vanguard to coin a phrase.
Perhaps we might even telescope the whole happy evolutionary process into “postcapitalism” via android phones and Facebook.
Neptunian is correct. In fact, Zahid Hamidi, as I predicted long ago, will be the UMNO candidate against Rafizi Ramli (likely PKR candidate and their only real choice, so far). PAS is a joke, Malaysia’s version of the Muslim Brotherhood, under the fanatic, Hadi Awang.
Zahid will play the Mahathir camp for a while, but no way will Mukhriz become PM, and he is as corrupt as Jibby. I lived near Mukhriz’s $2 million CDN mansion in West Vancouver, Canada, one of his innumerable global real estate holdings and foreign bank accounts, which he holds in trust for Papa. Any Mahathir family member will seal Malaysia’s fate as a Third World nation, as would any PAS member getting within 100 ft of Putrajaya. Rafizi has some credibility, as does Surendran and Nizar Jamaluddin (who won’t leave PAS at the moment, sadly, as he really belongs in PKR). Ramli has integrity, at least by Malaysian standards, and while young and inexperienced (a Malaysian Jokowi
perhaps ?), this nation cannot tolerate UMNO and PAS any longer. I have called publicly in Malaysia for the abandonment of the moronic gender registration laws, and I have called for Najib to step down, and Datuk Noor Farida Ariffin to take over as PM. Malaysia has seen it’s share of Malay male Drongos, and Farida is far more accomplished, honest, objective and experienced, than any male politician in Malaysia. It is time Malaysia make a hard choice: Respect the Malaysian Constitution and demonstrate to itself, and the World, that it is a secular mostly Muslim (and moderate) nation. This will only happen with Datuk Noor Farida. Rafizi may be decent, but he will wilt under UMNO and PAS attacks. Farida is no wallflower and she punches way above her weight.
I understand your concern about the level of hatred that has developed on both sides. There has indeed been much blood and the justice process has done little to give sense of closure. I suggest, however, that Thai people are, in general, rather forgiving (and forgetful).
There were violent clashes the year after the 1932 coup that led to hatred, executions, imprisonment and exile. There was also much blood spilt in period 1973-76 and in years of the armed CPT insurgency. The justice system did little to clarify who was responsible for what crimes, much less punish anyone. An eventual amnesty allowed CPT soldiers to return to society, mostly without any punishment. There was no legal punishment for the crimes against the FFT or the students at Thammasat. The radicals who joined the CPT were able to undertake careers that led to important positions, sometimes alongside those who had been bitter foes in the 1970s. I am not sure whether this could be called “reconciliation,” but the process allowed society to return to a more normal state that included elections, economic progress and a greater role (briefly a dominant role) for those on the losing side in the 70s and 80s (like Khun Chaturon).
I agree that fair assignment of blame by the courts would help, but the military seems exempt from legal process. Despite this, perhaps we can again hope for and end to political violence, a gradual reduction of hatred, a return to elected civilian government and a path to a more equitable system without any further interruptions.
Burma’s middle class is now bulging thanks to the Burmese patriots who fought a bitter war against US-led sanctions last two decades while our great leader ASSK had never stopped calling for more and more sanctions.
You see very few Rohingya types in that “middle class bulge” in Miandian but a lot more Chinese, half-Chinese or pro-Chinese types, I presume. Same is probably true of the ex-pat Mianmese in Singapore, Sydney and San Francisco. People with Confucian work ethic, materialistic greed and cunning money-laundering techniques are obviously way superior to those wretched illegal Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh lol
Don’t forget that there are more people from Australia going to Indonesia now than ever so people to people relations are better than ever. With problems from the volcano, had we not caught our scheduled flight one Saturday recently we would not have been able to get another flight for many days as Garuda, our airline, were totally booked for at least at week and that’s in the low season.
For better or worse, he has already deeply upset the existing order and provoked the old elite. There are too many examples, and that’s why this is an issue.
Nice analysis but overlooks a key issue, who follows Vajiralongkorn (or Phra Thep) in succession. Sustaining the monarchy means having the promise of a future, continuing the dynasty. Who controls and raises the next generation, and how they play the role, is crucial. Without a picture of that next-generation future, no one has any reason to be a Chakri monarchist. The Ayutthaya era still runs deep in Thai blood.
Otherwise, the author says this: “The coronation of Vajiralongkorn is the greatest threat to the power and influence of the ultra-monarchists.” That is wrong. It’s a threat to Bhumibol’s circle. Every new king comes with his own monarchists, and sometimes enjoys support from those of the previous reign. (ie Rama 5 to Rama 6, and then to Rama 7). The people around Bhumibol are true believers in part because they subscribe to his ideology, and in part because he makes them powerful. Vajiralongkorn can do the same with a new circle of “ultraroyalists”, a new “network monarchy”. Effective and long-lived are other issues.
Finally, the last line is questionable: “A weakened monarchy will ultimately undermine the military and bureaucracy.”
The weakened monarchy has already given way to a military dictatorship, and , as with Burma, the destruction of a monarchy can lead to a very long military dictatorship.
If thinking is contaminated, that’s when it usually happens.
I haven’t read your thing yet but I’m looking forward to your account of SBY’s Blue Energy. Now that was aspirational, big thinking, forward looking, sci-fi even. What a chance we missed to get in on the ground floor with him on that one. But, not even an MOU! And nobody could say he wasn’t a rational actor – could they?
The Islamists had him sussed very early. Although they appreciated his backing for them during the anti Christian Jihad in Maluku and Sulawesi, they still had doubts, knowing that Ani’s sister retained a Catholic priest from Maluku as the family paranormal, for those initmate family cancer moments.
I notice Widodo continues to make successful foreign visits to nations whose citizens he threatened to kill eg Philippines and Brit. What a weak Nomor 1! What an unsophisticated kampungan hick he is, uninterested in the world! Bet he takes packets of supermie with him like Warnie took baked beans. And we all know what a spectacular failure Warnie was.
The only problem i see is that i simply cannot see that the Red vs. Yellow division can possibly be overcome in the foreseeable future. To much blood has been shed, the hatred is too deep, and the justice process is still lacking fairness. Without justice there is no common ground to be found. In particular regarding the 2010 victims there has been very little justice, investigations are delayed, and any investigation process has so far mostly ended in a circle jerk between courts and the different investigative bodies.
I hate to bring my own case into the discussion, but it is somewhat exemplary for somewhat strange workings of the justice system here. More than one and a half years ago i have filed a case with police over the assault against me, supplied evidence, such as photos and a video of the incident – but not even the first step in the investigation have been performed. Promises given to me by bodies such as the National Human Rights Commission turned out empty.
And more importantly – the discourse between Red and Yellow over Thainess and the role of a citizen are so far away from each other that the question is less of common ground than of accepting that the conflict has to be played within democratic rules, which i don’t see happening now, and in particular impossible under the new proposed constitution.
In general, I believe that authors who have been allotted plenty of space in which to expound their views should not seek selfishly to continue to monopolise readers’ attention by trying to answer all the criticisms that they receive.
Nevertheless, there are a couple of points I would like to make in response to Dr Tapsell’s no doubt justified critique of my small publication on the Australia-Indonesia relationship.
My first comment is that, while my thinking has certainly been irrevocably contaminated by my long period of employment in Foreign Affairs and ONA, I did have the advantage of a brief academic career before then.
Highlights of my short but liberating sojourn in the groves of academe were monographs on Indonesia published respectively by Cornell University and Monash. It was none other than Jamie Mackie, then head of the Southeast Asia Studies Centre at Monash, who insisted that my study of the 1971 elections in East Java be published by Monash University rather than by Cornell. I argued, to no avail, that a second Cornell publication would help more in promoting my academic career than a local effort. Mackie even wrote to Benedict Anderson at Cornell to ask him, in the American vernacular, ‘to back off’.
I was ‘dreaming big’ for my academic career in those days, while Mackie was instead ‘dreaming big’ for the monograph series that he had launched. It had begun with a study of the PKI’s land reform campaign written by Rex Mortimer.
My second observation is that Dr Tapsell is of course entitled to identify my text as a ‘policy briefing’. But I would suggest that a policy briefing which lambastes so many Australian political leaders would unquestionably bring its public servant author’s career to an early demise.
From the quote above, Mackie certainly seems to have drunk the Indonesian Kool-Aid (or should that be Tolak Angin?).
His advice to Australian policy-makers encapsulates the underlying rationale that, to my mind, drives the often beguiling mess that is Indonesian policy-making:
“It does not greatly matter that the goal will probably remain forever beyond our grasp. It is the direction that the dream provides that is crucial.”
Whether it’s launching the world’s biggest health insurance scheme with no additional funding (good) or announcing that Indonesia will mass produce a new national car from next year (bad), policy pronouncements in Jakarta usually have a dream-like goal.
To the extent to which that pushes bureaucrats to work for the people and the people to demand more and better services, that’s no bad thing.
But, sadly, it’s all too easy to send the wrong signals.
Such as the 136 human lives taken away by Malay human traffickers in Kelantan and Perlis or the 14-year old Malay girl savagely raped by nearly 40 boys and men in Kelantan, last year. Fine examples of more Malaysian world records, which along with the venality and thievery of Prime Minister Najib, makes him a very strong candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize, and all the genuine UN awards that Malaysian’s ill-used tax money can buy. Give up your Utusan Fellowship, Greg, it isn’t helping your cause, nor Malaysia’s.
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The irresistible rise of Colonel Sanders
If the chicken originated in SE Asia the broiler chickens are coming home to roast, er, fry.
Personally I prefer KFC to McDonald’s since I like burgers less than fried chicken, and I suspect many Burmese from habit and tradition consider fried chicken a higher class non-vegetarian food than a beef burger. Because chicken was always more expensive than beef, perhaps still is, contrary to western markets, also less available and shunned by many because of the association of the cattle with farming and not the dinner table.
Our popular Nat spirit Ko Gyi Kyaw (U Min Kyaw) is typically portrayed holding a fried chicken in one hand and a drink in the other. That’s class to some, worshippers and non-believers alike.
Serge Pun is known for the Pun Hlaing Estate and more recently Star City over on Thanlyin (Syriam) side of the river. Naturally he caters for the moneyed and rent seeking class, not least the nouveau riche generals and their families. By the same token affordable fried chicken will not be a frequent culinary experience for most people, rural or urban, until the broiler chickens from army chicken farms and others become cheaper.
A Burmese trickle-down looks as elusive as a Burmese middle class bulge.
Myanmar’s middle-class bulge
In a country where
1) more than 1/2 of the citizenry have no running water
2)and sanitizing after #2 remain a bamboo stick,
the middle class bulge might seem grossly contradictory.
The positive point is the rise of middle class ensure more everything including FREEDOM.
The ugliness of this aspect of freedom if continued will demand better health care that will be available to all.
Instead of going to SIngapore or Thailand which only the upper crust can afford.
Myanmar’s middle-class bulge
Wish we could all be as optimistic as Nich. A nice and cosy very middle class and rather narcissistic notion of themselves as important and aspirational members of the globalised consumer society with a bit of disposable income becoming the agents of change. Evolution not revolution, naturally. An evolutionary vanguard to coin a phrase.
Perhaps we might even telescope the whole happy evolutionary process into “postcapitalism” via android phones and Facebook.
Consumers of the world, unite!
Dear Malaysia: Mahathir is no messiah
Neptunian is correct. In fact, Zahid Hamidi, as I predicted long ago, will be the UMNO candidate against Rafizi Ramli (likely PKR candidate and their only real choice, so far). PAS is a joke, Malaysia’s version of the Muslim Brotherhood, under the fanatic, Hadi Awang.
Zahid will play the Mahathir camp for a while, but no way will Mukhriz become PM, and he is as corrupt as Jibby. I lived near Mukhriz’s $2 million CDN mansion in West Vancouver, Canada, one of his innumerable global real estate holdings and foreign bank accounts, which he holds in trust for Papa. Any Mahathir family member will seal Malaysia’s fate as a Third World nation, as would any PAS member getting within 100 ft of Putrajaya. Rafizi has some credibility, as does Surendran and Nizar Jamaluddin (who won’t leave PAS at the moment, sadly, as he really belongs in PKR). Ramli has integrity, at least by Malaysian standards, and while young and inexperienced (a Malaysian Jokowi
perhaps ?), this nation cannot tolerate UMNO and PAS any longer. I have called publicly in Malaysia for the abandonment of the moronic gender registration laws, and I have called for Najib to step down, and Datuk Noor Farida Ariffin to take over as PM. Malaysia has seen it’s share of Malay male Drongos, and Farida is far more accomplished, honest, objective and experienced, than any male politician in Malaysia. It is time Malaysia make a hard choice: Respect the Malaysian Constitution and demonstrate to itself, and the World, that it is a secular mostly Muslim (and moderate) nation. This will only happen with Datuk Noor Farida. Rafizi may be decent, but he will wilt under UMNO and PAS attacks. Farida is no wallflower and she punches way above her weight.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Khun Nick,
I understand your concern about the level of hatred that has developed on both sides. There has indeed been much blood and the justice process has done little to give sense of closure. I suggest, however, that Thai people are, in general, rather forgiving (and forgetful).
There were violent clashes the year after the 1932 coup that led to hatred, executions, imprisonment and exile. There was also much blood spilt in period 1973-76 and in years of the armed CPT insurgency. The justice system did little to clarify who was responsible for what crimes, much less punish anyone. An eventual amnesty allowed CPT soldiers to return to society, mostly without any punishment. There was no legal punishment for the crimes against the FFT or the students at Thammasat. The radicals who joined the CPT were able to undertake careers that led to important positions, sometimes alongside those who had been bitter foes in the 1970s. I am not sure whether this could be called “reconciliation,” but the process allowed society to return to a more normal state that included elections, economic progress and a greater role (briefly a dominant role) for those on the losing side in the 70s and 80s (like Khun Chaturon).
I agree that fair assignment of blame by the courts would help, but the military seems exempt from legal process. Despite this, perhaps we can again hope for and end to political violence, a gradual reduction of hatred, a return to elected civilian government and a path to a more equitable system without any further interruptions.
A tale of two cities in Myanmar
This is not Highway Road, everyone call it Road to Hell! I am so scare of passing this road. Everyone TAKE CARE when you are on the way on it.
The irresistible rise of Colonel Sanders
I haven’t taste this KFC yet. I want a chance to get there and how about service and taste?
Tourism and Myanmar’s missed opportunity
I have been in Yangon around 9 years and never ride train yet. Because I am waiting for Bullet Train from Japan. 😀
Myanmar’s middle-class bulge
Burma’s middle class is now bulging thanks to the Burmese patriots who fought a bitter war against US-led sanctions last two decades while our great leader ASSK had never stopped calling for more and more sanctions.
Myanmar’s middle-class bulge
You see very few Rohingya types in that “middle class bulge” in Miandian but a lot more Chinese, half-Chinese or pro-Chinese types, I presume. Same is probably true of the ex-pat Mianmese in Singapore, Sydney and San Francisco. People with Confucian work ethic, materialistic greed and cunning money-laundering techniques are obviously way superior to those wretched illegal Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh lol
Dare to dream big
Don’t forget that there are more people from Australia going to Indonesia now than ever so people to people relations are better than ever. With problems from the volcano, had we not caught our scheduled flight one Saturday recently we would not have been able to get another flight for many days as Garuda, our airline, were totally booked for at least at week and that’s in the low season.
Malaysia’s deadly connection
Dear Barry,
Thanks for the favour.
Will sign the agreement soon.
See you in Manila.
Your golfer in arm
Naj.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-28/us-removes-malaysia-from-human-trafficking-list/6654350
Political implications of Thailand’s royal succession
For better or worse, he has already deeply upset the existing order and provoked the old elite. There are too many examples, and that’s why this is an issue.
Political implications of Thailand’s royal succession
Nice analysis but overlooks a key issue, who follows Vajiralongkorn (or Phra Thep) in succession. Sustaining the monarchy means having the promise of a future, continuing the dynasty. Who controls and raises the next generation, and how they play the role, is crucial. Without a picture of that next-generation future, no one has any reason to be a Chakri monarchist. The Ayutthaya era still runs deep in Thai blood.
Otherwise, the author says this: “The coronation of Vajiralongkorn is the greatest threat to the power and influence of the ultra-monarchists.” That is wrong. It’s a threat to Bhumibol’s circle. Every new king comes with his own monarchists, and sometimes enjoys support from those of the previous reign. (ie Rama 5 to Rama 6, and then to Rama 7). The people around Bhumibol are true believers in part because they subscribe to his ideology, and in part because he makes them powerful. Vajiralongkorn can do the same with a new circle of “ultraroyalists”, a new “network monarchy”. Effective and long-lived are other issues.
Finally, the last line is questionable: “A weakened monarchy will ultimately undermine the military and bureaucracy.”
The weakened monarchy has already given way to a military dictatorship, and , as with Burma, the destruction of a monarchy can lead to a very long military dictatorship.
Dare to dream big
‘…a brief academic career before then.’
If thinking is contaminated, that’s when it usually happens.
I haven’t read your thing yet but I’m looking forward to your account of SBY’s Blue Energy. Now that was aspirational, big thinking, forward looking, sci-fi even. What a chance we missed to get in on the ground floor with him on that one. But, not even an MOU! And nobody could say he wasn’t a rational actor – could they?
The Islamists had him sussed very early. Although they appreciated his backing for them during the anti Christian Jihad in Maluku and Sulawesi, they still had doubts, knowing that Ani’s sister retained a Catholic priest from Maluku as the family paranormal, for those initmate family cancer moments.
I notice Widodo continues to make successful foreign visits to nations whose citizens he threatened to kill eg Philippines and Brit. What a weak Nomor 1! What an unsophisticated kampungan hick he is, uninterested in the world! Bet he takes packets of supermie with him like Warnie took baked beans. And we all know what a spectacular failure Warnie was.
Thailand will never have democracy unless…
Khun Niphon,
The only problem i see is that i simply cannot see that the Red vs. Yellow division can possibly be overcome in the foreseeable future. To much blood has been shed, the hatred is too deep, and the justice process is still lacking fairness. Without justice there is no common ground to be found. In particular regarding the 2010 victims there has been very little justice, investigations are delayed, and any investigation process has so far mostly ended in a circle jerk between courts and the different investigative bodies.
I hate to bring my own case into the discussion, but it is somewhat exemplary for somewhat strange workings of the justice system here. More than one and a half years ago i have filed a case with police over the assault against me, supplied evidence, such as photos and a video of the incident – but not even the first step in the investigation have been performed. Promises given to me by bodies such as the National Human Rights Commission turned out empty.
And more importantly – the discourse between Red and Yellow over Thainess and the role of a citizen are so far away from each other that the question is less of common ground than of accepting that the conflict has to be played within democratic rules, which i don’t see happening now, and in particular impossible under the new proposed constitution.
Dare to dream big
In general, I believe that authors who have been allotted plenty of space in which to expound their views should not seek selfishly to continue to monopolise readers’ attention by trying to answer all the criticisms that they receive.
Nevertheless, there are a couple of points I would like to make in response to Dr Tapsell’s no doubt justified critique of my small publication on the Australia-Indonesia relationship.
My first comment is that, while my thinking has certainly been irrevocably contaminated by my long period of employment in Foreign Affairs and ONA, I did have the advantage of a brief academic career before then.
Highlights of my short but liberating sojourn in the groves of academe were monographs on Indonesia published respectively by Cornell University and Monash. It was none other than Jamie Mackie, then head of the Southeast Asia Studies Centre at Monash, who insisted that my study of the 1971 elections in East Java be published by Monash University rather than by Cornell. I argued, to no avail, that a second Cornell publication would help more in promoting my academic career than a local effort. Mackie even wrote to Benedict Anderson at Cornell to ask him, in the American vernacular, ‘to back off’.
I was ‘dreaming big’ for my academic career in those days, while Mackie was instead ‘dreaming big’ for the monograph series that he had launched. It had begun with a study of the PKI’s land reform campaign written by Rex Mortimer.
My second observation is that Dr Tapsell is of course entitled to identify my text as a ‘policy briefing’. But I would suggest that a policy briefing which lambastes so many Australian political leaders would unquestionably bring its public servant author’s career to an early demise.
Dare to dream big
From the quote above, Mackie certainly seems to have drunk the Indonesian Kool-Aid (or should that be Tolak Angin?).
His advice to Australian policy-makers encapsulates the underlying rationale that, to my mind, drives the often beguiling mess that is Indonesian policy-making:
“It does not greatly matter that the goal will probably remain forever beyond our grasp. It is the direction that the dream provides that is crucial.”
Whether it’s launching the world’s biggest health insurance scheme with no additional funding (good) or announcing that Indonesia will mass produce a new national car from next year (bad), policy pronouncements in Jakarta usually have a dream-like goal.
To the extent to which that pushes bureaucrats to work for the people and the people to demand more and better services, that’s no bad thing.
But, sadly, it’s all too easy to send the wrong signals.
Malaysia’s deadly connection
Such as the 136 human lives taken away by Malay human traffickers in Kelantan and Perlis or the 14-year old Malay girl savagely raped by nearly 40 boys and men in Kelantan, last year. Fine examples of more Malaysian world records, which along with the venality and thievery of Prime Minister Najib, makes him a very strong candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize, and all the genuine UN awards that Malaysian’s ill-used tax money can buy. Give up your Utusan Fellowship, Greg, it isn’t helping your cause, nor Malaysia’s.
Malaysia’s deadly connection
Obama is so cool that he won a Nobel Peace Prize with a speech, and such a badass that he has killed more than 2500 people through drone strikes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147
The TPP is very important. Human lives are not.