Oh, I never said Imran Khan was a liberal. If he was, he would have stayed married to his Jewish-born English wife. Khan is a Putz, and old Brooklyn, New York term. But he is a Putz that gets 2000 offers of marriage a day from na├пve young Pakistani girls (who knows, maybe some “Rohingya” too).
Moral pretext is inherent in Islam, just look how Malaysian PAS Chief Hadi Awang dispensed with challenger Ahmad Awang, by calling him a “Shi’a” and a “Jew”. Believe me, Khan isn’t much better, just better looking, and can still bat around 0.675. Anyway, I encourage all our NM friends to move to Sittwe when the Jihad erupts and tell us, how gentle the “Rohingya” are.
Peter, follow the cricketers. Here’s Imran Khan constructing a moral pretext for the militants – the UN MUST do this or else the righteous probably will –
Part 3. Good to see the SMH finally catching up to the story, better late than never. Keep going guys you’ve barely touched the surface. Last time you stuffed it by obsessing over alleged Australian wrongdoing instead of following the trail to the source – Makassar and Kendari. This time don’t forget to investigate Jasmin, who is said to work for his uncle in Bogor, and smuggler H.Laode Bawangi, Wanci born residing in Bogor, ex TNI and failed Gerindra pollie who runs a ‘private security’ bizzo.
Payments are not unusual. Mr Rothwell perhaps forgets how AFP paid an Australian people smuggler in Kupang the last time around.
Are the ‘specifics’ cited by JL above the ‘resource grabs’ bemoaned by the duo doubly-speaking Thongchai and Tyrell?
I suspect not because the ‘specifics’ by JL were mainly illegal forest encroachments (by villagers and businessmen) prosecuted the the military/police under Gen. Prayuth’s rule.
Greg Lopez seemed very impressed … and is it because in Malaysia ‘forest encroachments’ are the norm and not illegal.
Though H.E U Khin Aung Myint had relatively made an a bit more objective assessment on the core problems or legacies, as he likes to call, he is still missing or pretended to be missing some more imperative element of the whole picture. When he talked about historical legacies, as he also like to call them as ‘political culture, ’ he fails to mention a one more relevant legacy that is the legacy of not sincerely, fully and objectively admitting on what one did wrong and merely blaming all onto outside of one’s own circle or group.
When he talked about radicalism, he fails again on revealing more than 50 years old radicalization of military personals, government officials and the majority of people against ethnic and religious minorities, playing with the ethnic and religious divide that it is still going.
It’s very hard to call on anyone to make a great personal sacrifice to undermine the Thai dictatorship. But those of us who can do it with relative impunity have a moral obligation to put the boot into it good and hard, and to do it at every opportunity. If we outsiders can help to undermine the dictatorship’s morale, we can help the Thais towards a better future.
Funny, they also didn’t use the term “Rohingya”, but they did use the term “Jihad”. But I am sure our NM friends will say this is all a Western conspiracy.
What? No specifics from Thongchai & Tyrell of the alleged ‘resource grabs’? Should I suspect dishonesty and double speak from the duo Thongchai and Tyrell? Hah!
Utopianism – what these two authors promote. Theoretically good, practically boring. Can the theme or genre of human rights even be relevant in Thailand? Maybe an Asian Values debate is needed?
Most peoples and nations on this planet had to pay in pain for getting the ‘democratic freedoms’ that they now take for granted. For some reason, the pain threshold of the Thais must be kinda limited (after 60 years of brain washing and propaganda) to SERIOUSLY go out there and demand, and fight for such freedoms. A bunch of farangs oozing sympathy, slicing and dicing and parsing their plight on social media, alas, are not going to get THEIR job done for them. However ‘right wing’ this might sound (in New Mandala!):
“Freedom isn’t free.”
It never was. Anywhere .
… ‘cept in fairy tales .
.. and nursery rhymes…
…in a very short period of time we have managed to achieve ceasefire agreements with 11 armed ethnic groups. Only one main ethnic group, the Kachin Independence Army, remains.
What he didn’t include in his speech was, as they got ceasefire agreements with those armed groups, the fightings always continue, there is no areas with no fighting in the ceasefire agreement zones. Every armed groups who singed ceasefire are still fighting. And the military could even more freely active and transfer most terrifying heavy weapons in the ethnic territories as the effort of ceasefire agreement.
Two comments on the interesting paper:
1. Doublespeak implies that those applying it know that they use manipulative jargon. I think in Thailand the mentioned groups (Junta, Royalists, domestic supporters etc.) believe in what they are saying, at least to a large degree. I am sure that they think they save Thailand from danger, that they are the only one, who can maintain unity and protect the king and royal family from danger. They have internalized the ideology they are spreading. This does, of course, not at all imply that they would do what they say, which is a different issue altogether. Taking this perspective, we can see that the elites are not the puppet masters, but themselves slaves of their own mind-set!
2. A problem of post-industrial society is that national social integration is dissolved by global economic integration and the rise of authoritarian communities beyond the boundaries of nation states. This makes democracy difficult, and enhances the demand for “enlightened leaders”. The problem is though that these tend to be connected to the mentioned communities. As a result we have authoritarian rather than enlightened leaders, favouring their communities.
The problem in Thailand is a combination of far reaching economic-cultural global integration with segregated communities. Much of the incomes in Thailand are closely connected to the global economy, by it export of agricultural commodities, land speculation, tourism etc. Furthermore consumerism, which provides status emblems like I-phone, Ferrari etc. is linked to global trade marks. Until recently, the community of the elite could construct Thailand and Thai culture as resemblance of their own community. (Anderson discusses nation as imagined community. At present Thai-nation is the attempt to realize a particular version of an elite community, in which the country is supposed to serve the elite, because they are the rightful, enlightened leaders of this community).However, other communities have evolved, that challenge the idea of Thailand as community of the elite. This leaves only two alternatives:
a) An authoritarian regime supresses diverging views to maintains communality;
b) a form of democracy and political participation.
Democracy has a basic problem though. It is frustrating for many: Instead of pure power you have to have discourse. Instead of realizing own interests, we have to have compromise. Unfortunately, in a democracy one has to get along and even recognize groups and persons we do not like, or we regard as stupid, uneducated, bad etc. We even have to take into account opinions we do not share at all, because we know they are wrong, one-sided etc. Nevertheless, democracy has a positive aspect: It allows personal freedom. However, this positive aspect only counts for those who appreciate it!
Resource grabs across the country at the expense of rural citizens’ land and livelihood are widespread. All of this takes place in the name of “reconciliation”.
Specifics please. — re resource grabs!
The violence btw were by the red shirts led by the late General Khattiya who publicly admitted that he answered only to Thaksin and no one else
Quite percipient article, but of course we have seen it all before: in the 60s, in Sri Lanka some honourable Tamil politicians suggested the very same thing: ‘wise men’ should take over government from the stupid population that knew neither to vote nor to govern. And before that, in the 30s, there was an outcry against universal suffrage in Ceylon, especially women and ‘the great unwashed’. And who are the wise men: always the honourable authors themselves, of course. Which brings me to the article on ‘the cult of democracy’ a few days ago: so democracy is only for the West, is it? Other people are exceptional and not able to handle it, because they might vote for undesirable politicians? Is that the meaning? Excuse me, but that IS democracy! I have not heard this argument used against democracy either in France (Front National), Austria (FP├Ц), Italy, Greece or any of these countries. Nor in Germany of the 20s where people regularly voted for ghastly parties. I do not think that the Thai people are more stupid than the Germans or the French….. Do you?
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‘The perfect storm’
Oh, I never said Imran Khan was a liberal. If he was, he would have stayed married to his Jewish-born English wife. Khan is a Putz, and old Brooklyn, New York term. But he is a Putz that gets 2000 offers of marriage a day from na├пve young Pakistani girls (who knows, maybe some “Rohingya” too).
Moral pretext is inherent in Islam, just look how Malaysian PAS Chief Hadi Awang dispensed with challenger Ahmad Awang, by calling him a “Shi’a” and a “Jew”. Believe me, Khan isn’t much better, just better looking, and can still bat around 0.675. Anyway, I encourage all our NM friends to move to Sittwe when the Jihad erupts and tell us, how gentle the “Rohingya” are.
‘The perfect storm’
Peter, follow the cricketers. Here’s Imran Khan constructing a moral pretext for the militants – the UN MUST do this or else the righteous probably will –
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8_i9YM_8pjMJ:burmatimes.net/pakistan-leader-slams-un-inaction/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
Rohingya stalemate tests Myanmar
Part 3. Good to see the SMH finally catching up to the story, better late than never. Keep going guys you’ve barely touched the surface. Last time you stuffed it by obsessing over alleged Australian wrongdoing instead of following the trail to the source – Makassar and Kendari. This time don’t forget to investigate Jasmin, who is said to work for his uncle in Bogor, and smuggler H.Laode Bawangi, Wanci born residing in Bogor, ex TNI and failed Gerindra pollie who runs a ‘private security’ bizzo.
Payments are not unusual. Mr Rothwell perhaps forgets how AFP paid an Australian people smuggler in Kupang the last time around.
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
I’m not sure Korn.
Have a read & watch these videos and let me know what you think?
You may find that Malaysia and Thailand have many things in common.
https://youtu.be/_1RRNggnM6A
http://www.sarawakreport.org/tag/land-grabs/
http://www.money-logging.org/
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Are the ‘specifics’ cited by JL above the ‘resource grabs’ bemoaned by the duo doubly-speaking Thongchai and Tyrell?
I suspect not because the ‘specifics’ by JL were mainly illegal forest encroachments (by villagers and businessmen) prosecuted the the military/police under Gen. Prayuth’s rule.
Greg Lopez seemed very impressed … and is it because in Malaysia ‘forest encroachments’ are the norm and not illegal.
ANU Thai Studies conference keynote address
Once he gets rolling, he has some interesting things to say.
I would like to know, however, why Thaksin was not brought in for the same sort of “nakrian nok” satire as Abhisit.
When you think about it, Mark is more like a luk khrueng, having been born in England and lived there for much of his life.
Thaksin is the more interesting case.
Future lies in reconciling the present with the past
Though H.E U Khin Aung Myint had relatively made an a bit more objective assessment on the core problems or legacies, as he likes to call, he is still missing or pretended to be missing some more imperative element of the whole picture. When he talked about historical legacies, as he also like to call them as ‘political culture, ’ he fails to mention a one more relevant legacy that is the legacy of not sincerely, fully and objectively admitting on what one did wrong and merely blaming all onto outside of one’s own circle or group.
When he talked about radicalism, he fails again on revealing more than 50 years old radicalization of military personals, government officials and the majority of people against ethnic and religious minorities, playing with the ethnic and religious divide that it is still going.
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
It’s very hard to call on anyone to make a great personal sacrifice to undermine the Thai dictatorship. But those of us who can do it with relative impunity have a moral obligation to put the boot into it good and hard, and to do it at every opportunity. If we outsiders can help to undermine the dictatorship’s morale, we can help the Thais towards a better future.
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Wow — Very specific.
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Specifics:
16/4/2015 – Provincial court sentences 4 northeastern villagers allegedly encroached into protected areas to prison – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4965
8/4/2015 – PM’s absolute power no land woes cure-all – http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/521711/pm-absolute-power-no-land-woes-cure-all
1/4/2015 – SPFT Members Subject to Death Threats – http://www.humanrights.asia/news/urgent-appeals/AHRC-UAC-023-2015
1/4/2015 – Thai military dismiss UN’s concern on human rights violation against land rights activists – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4931
30/3/2015 – Thailand’s northerners, northeasterners urge junta to call off ‘return forest’ policy – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4919
26/3/2015 – Military files lawsuit against villager for posting picture of military’s forced eviction on FB – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4913
20/3/2015 – Karen villager jailed 1.5 years for illegal logging – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4891
19/3/2015 – Thai poor urges junta to stop evicting poor from disputed protected areas – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4886
17/3/2015 – Military orders eviction of southern villagers allegedly encroached into public land – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4870
12/3/2015 – UN Human Rights Office concerns situations of human rights related to land in Thailand – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4854
11/3/2015 – Authorities briefly detain, intimidate Isan activists who are against petroleum explorations – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4849
26/2/2015 – Junta urged to stop using martial law while plundering natural resources – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4818
23/2/2015 – Thai authority briefly detains Karen activist for protesting against junta’s forest policy – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4809
18/2/2015 – Martial law a nightmare for the have-nots – http://ow.ly/JeC7A
16/2/2015 – Military threatens villagers who oppose exploration of oil field in Isan – http://prachatai.org/english/node/4794
14/2/2015 – Thai military aids petroleum company to secure oil field despite locals’ opposition – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4791
13/2/2015 – Military orders out Isan villagers allegedly trespassing in public area – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4784
12/2/2015 – Southern land rights activist shot dead – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4780
10/2/2015 – Civil group urges government to solve land conflict between slum communities and private landowners – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4774
4/2/2015 – Thai military threatens landless southern villagers – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4752
2/2/2015 – Military summons southern land rights activist for detention – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4743
29/1/2015 – Police file charge against park officers over Billy’s disappearance – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4727
26/1/2015 – Environmental and civil society groups condemn junta’s mining bill – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4711
23/1/2015 – Network of the poor urges junta to fix inequity and forest protection policies – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4707
19/1/2015 – 300 villagers in northern Thailand severely ill allegedly due to mine – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4690
16/1/2015 – Isan civil society urges junta to lift martial law, stop forest protection plan – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4687
9/1/2015 – [VDO] The master plan: solving deforestation or yet another strategy to remove and evict people? – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4662
20/12/2014 – Martial Law in Northeast of Thailand creates common cause between pro-democracy and community rights groups – http://goo.gl/X2S7sM
18/12/2014 – Land rights activists condemn junta’s Return Forest policy after nearly 1,800 families affected – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4618
17/12/2014 – Military to send rubber farmer activists to military camp for ‘attitude adjustment’ – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4613
16/12/2014 – Thai military storms forum on land rights in Isan, threatens organizers with arrest – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4607
4/12/2014 – Southern land rights activist shot dead after quarrel with oil palm business – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4565
4/12/2014 – Anti-mine activist shot dead after court rules in favor of villagers – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4563
20/11/2014 – Military bans seminar on land, tax reform at library – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4511
20/11/2014 – Military forces activist to close Facebook page related to Northeast dam – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4510
15/11/2014 – Lawyers condemn military’s harassment against lawyer, clients – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4490
15/11/2014 – Military gets paranoid over cultural event on land issue – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4489
12/11/2014 – Military interrupts private meeting of lawyer, clients in Isan – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4477
11/11/2014 – Junta’s new mining bill will please corporates but harm the poor – http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/4461
9/11/2014 – Military detains Chula academic, land rights activists in Chiang Mai after attempted rally – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4471
29/10/2014 – About 40 Karens prosecuted for forest encroachment – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4450
19/10/2014 – Isaan Poor Targeted by Junta’s Forest Policies – http://goo.gl/zb6E6a
15/10/2014 – Karen minority complains on junta’s ‘return forest’ policy – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4408
7/10/2014 – Activist organizes rally for landless despite martial law – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4385
3/10/2015 – Forest evictions under Prayuth? – http://www.newmandala.org/2014/10/03/forest-evictions-under-prayuth/
24/9/2014 – Court accepts appeal request on unlawful detention of Karen rights activist ‘Billy’ – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4357
1/9/2014 – Eviction on the Horizon for Chaiyaphum Community – http://goo.gl/cGlb97
23/7/2014 – Army evicts villagers in Isaan, claiming to preserve forest – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4240
22/7/2014 – NE villagers urge junta to allow participation in mining conflict – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4237
17/7/2014 – Detained land rights activist released – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4226
17/7/2014 – Land rights activist detained by military – http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4224
‘The perfect storm’
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-09/pakistani-taliban-call-for-jihad-in-myanmar/6530878
Funny, they also didn’t use the term “Rohingya”, but they did use the term “Jihad”. But I am sure our NM friends will say this is all a Western conspiracy.
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
What? No specifics from Thongchai & Tyrell of the alleged ‘resource grabs’? Should I suspect dishonesty and double speak from the duo Thongchai and Tyrell? Hah!
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Utopianism – what these two authors promote. Theoretically good, practically boring. Can the theme or genre of human rights even be relevant in Thailand? Maybe an Asian Values debate is needed?
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Most peoples and nations on this planet had to pay in pain for getting the ‘democratic freedoms’ that they now take for granted. For some reason, the pain threshold of the Thais must be kinda limited (after 60 years of brain washing and propaganda) to SERIOUSLY go out there and demand, and fight for such freedoms. A bunch of farangs oozing sympathy, slicing and dicing and parsing their plight on social media, alas, are not going to get THEIR job done for them. However ‘right wing’ this might sound (in New Mandala!):
“Freedom isn’t free.”
It never was. Anywhere .
… ‘cept in fairy tales .
.. and nursery rhymes…
Future lies in reconciling the present with the past
Historic cost of war budgets were passed by his parliament as well.
Future lies in reconciling the present with the past
…in a very short period of time we have managed to achieve ceasefire agreements with 11 armed ethnic groups. Only one main ethnic group, the Kachin Independence Army, remains.
What he didn’t include in his speech was, as they got ceasefire agreements with those armed groups, the fightings always continue, there is no areas with no fighting in the ceasefire agreement zones. Every armed groups who singed ceasefire are still fighting. And the military could even more freely active and transfer most terrifying heavy weapons in the ethnic territories as the effort of ceasefire agreement.
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Two comments on the interesting paper:
1. Doublespeak implies that those applying it know that they use manipulative jargon. I think in Thailand the mentioned groups (Junta, Royalists, domestic supporters etc.) believe in what they are saying, at least to a large degree. I am sure that they think they save Thailand from danger, that they are the only one, who can maintain unity and protect the king and royal family from danger. They have internalized the ideology they are spreading. This does, of course, not at all imply that they would do what they say, which is a different issue altogether. Taking this perspective, we can see that the elites are not the puppet masters, but themselves slaves of their own mind-set!
2. A problem of post-industrial society is that national social integration is dissolved by global economic integration and the rise of authoritarian communities beyond the boundaries of nation states. This makes democracy difficult, and enhances the demand for “enlightened leaders”. The problem is though that these tend to be connected to the mentioned communities. As a result we have authoritarian rather than enlightened leaders, favouring their communities.
The problem in Thailand is a combination of far reaching economic-cultural global integration with segregated communities. Much of the incomes in Thailand are closely connected to the global economy, by it export of agricultural commodities, land speculation, tourism etc. Furthermore consumerism, which provides status emblems like I-phone, Ferrari etc. is linked to global trade marks. Until recently, the community of the elite could construct Thailand and Thai culture as resemblance of their own community. (Anderson discusses nation as imagined community. At present Thai-nation is the attempt to realize a particular version of an elite community, in which the country is supposed to serve the elite, because they are the rightful, enlightened leaders of this community).However, other communities have evolved, that challenge the idea of Thailand as community of the elite. This leaves only two alternatives:
a) An authoritarian regime supresses diverging views to maintains communality;
b) a form of democracy and political participation.
Democracy has a basic problem though. It is frustrating for many: Instead of pure power you have to have discourse. Instead of realizing own interests, we have to have compromise. Unfortunately, in a democracy one has to get along and even recognize groups and persons we do not like, or we regard as stupid, uneducated, bad etc. We even have to take into account opinions we do not share at all, because we know they are wrong, one-sided etc. Nevertheless, democracy has a positive aspect: It allows personal freedom. However, this positive aspect only counts for those who appreciate it!
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Resource grabs across the country at the expense of rural citizens’ land and livelihood are widespread. All of this takes place in the name of “reconciliation”.
Specifics please. — re resource grabs!
The violence btw were by the red shirts led by the late General Khattiya who publicly admitted that he answered only to Thaksin and no one else
The empire strikes back
[…] : Fran├зois Vezier Source (Ross Tapsell/New Mandala) : The empire strikes back Photo : […]
The Thai junta’s doublespeak
Quite percipient article, but of course we have seen it all before: in the 60s, in Sri Lanka some honourable Tamil politicians suggested the very same thing: ‘wise men’ should take over government from the stupid population that knew neither to vote nor to govern. And before that, in the 30s, there was an outcry against universal suffrage in Ceylon, especially women and ‘the great unwashed’. And who are the wise men: always the honourable authors themselves, of course. Which brings me to the article on ‘the cult of democracy’ a few days ago: so democracy is only for the West, is it? Other people are exceptional and not able to handle it, because they might vote for undesirable politicians? Is that the meaning? Excuse me, but that IS democracy! I have not heard this argument used against democracy either in France (Front National), Austria (FP├Ц), Italy, Greece or any of these countries. Nor in Germany of the 20s where people regularly voted for ghastly parties. I do not think that the Thai people are more stupid than the Germans or the French….. Do you?