For what its worth Berita Satu is running the story now. And from the videos they are using, there’s very little doubt about whom the people there was voting for.
I suggest that you read the article again. Although the author is negative to the coup, that is not the focus of his writing, I have to admit some of it went above my head, but looking forward, Thailand will struggle to develop good democratic institutions. That would have been the case even without the coup. The fundamentals are not in place.
So the coup supporters could be right, Thailand is not ready for democracy. The coup will of course only further cement this situation in my opinion.
1. No, I didn’t hear it myself, for which very reason I use the word ‘allegedly’ in the article. But there are witnesses, some of them I personally know, who heard the statement in their own ears. Now, whether it’s true or not that Sigit made such remarks, let’s just wait for Panwaslu’s investigation result.
2. Errr, as I was around the location (so were many other witnesses) when it happened, you may want to double check with the PPLN if they told you the truth. As for whether the protesting voters were going to vote for Jokowi, there are videos on youtube showing the protesters doing salam dua jari and all that. But you’re right in the sense that not all of them were Jokowi’s supporters. There were actually people supporting Prabowo who were protesting along with Jokowi’s supporters. I was simply stating the fact that there are now rumours saying that it was a deliberate ploy to sabotage Jokowi’s vote.
3. Again, I was simply citing Merdeka.com’s article. It wasn’t made up.
I’ll say let’s just wait for Panwaslu’s investigation.
It is so sad to hear that voters can’t cast their votes.
1. “In the midst of this protest, Commissioner of the Election Committee (KPU) Sigit Pamungkas allegedly made the controversial remarks that the “TPS will be re-opened only if the rest of the voters vote for Number 1”.”
Did you listen it with your own ear? Or you heard a rumour?
2. “Rumours flew that the premature closing of the TPS was a deliberate ploy to sabotage the Jokowi vote”
First, it is not premature, the PPSLN said there was no queue when it was closed on 5.30 pm. Second, how did they know they voted for Jokowi?
3. “reportedly close to Golkar, the Demokrat, and the National Awakening Party (PAN).”
He was attending PDIP and other party congress too, but no report on that. Of course he has to attend that congresses, he is a lecturer in political science specialising at party and election.
Here I tell you some FACTS. Sigit was supported by PDIP, Golkar and Demokrat in the DPR during KPU selection processes and came second.
Betul saya kira sudah sangat jelas. Penyampaian ini bukan sekali, tetapi berkali-kali. Anda juga bisa melihat jelas di manifesto partai Gerindra :” “Partai GERINDRA adalah partai rakyat yang berjuang untuk tegaknya Pancasila, UUD 1945 sebagaimana ditetapkan pada 18 Agustus 1945.”
Generally supported? By whom? The minority elite is does not represent Thais. The Thai people, i.e. voters represent Thais. How many elections do we need to proof that fact?
Prabowo and Jokowi as technocrats ? Ha ! Has either of them taken calculus, physics, chemistry and biology in college ? Do they know what “Green Chemistry” is ? Export substitution ? Sustainability ? Crop substitution ? Laterite destruction of arid open-spaces in primary forests ? Do they know about species diversity ? How oil palm plantations reduce forest diversity ? That Indonesia is in the top ten, on the CITES list, of threatened and endangered species, present in the nation. Has either one ever
encountered a rhino in the wild; a Rafflesia flower; a giant Amorphophallus ? Do they know which rice cultivar is best for Indonesia ?
As they do not know these things, the second question becomes, do either of them know, or care, who in Indonesia, does ?
Reading from a script was indeed a sad moment and a great let down for those thousands of young people hungry for a leader articulating a better future. This raises the issue of the level of advice he’s getting – or whether he’s being given good advice and ignoring it. The other reports on organisational chaos and PDI-P in-fighting are also distressing. Do they really want to win?
Thanks for replying and pardon for not replying sooner.
It is official now that ‘the Monas event’ was an administrative violence against the rule of neutral zone not only based on the Government of Jakarta but also by KPU (Commision of General Election). The following links are examples of the news regarding this issue.
About the voluntarily attending supporters of Mr. Widodo, well, we know in Indonesia what we used to do when we go to a campaign. Trust me, we know it. Volunteers will always be, but the fact that they came in the uniform can also rises a question.
The point down here is that it will not be easy to build an idealized democracy in Indonesia as long as the poor, peasants, and many hard workers come from a very limited education background. They’ll always be brought to campaigns easily and soon be neglected after election and then approached again near to the upcoming election. Again and again.
Very selective analysis. No mention of the reason for the coup and its timings. No mention of what has been achieved on attacks on corruption and senior people being out.
The same old arguments on coup always bad, democracy always good.
There are Thais who are anti-coup, there are more that support it with reservations. Including America.
One-sided and selective analysis is not really analysis
But that is Mandala’s agenda. I’d have less of a problem with it if you were honest to admit your propaganda.
Brooklynbridge, just seeing your comment now. And wondering how logical it can possibly be to contend that a NM reader who gives him- or herself the pseudonym “Suriyon Raiwa” is “clearly . . . not familiar with” Thailand. Whaddya think?
Even if it is not really in topic, I would like to share a story from Tiziano Terzani, an Italian journalist well known for his knowledge of East Asia. He spent some time with fishermen, some of them from the Chinese ethnic group. He noticed that fishermen, who returned back with the boat full of fishes, were used to leave the boat at anchor until everything is sold. Chinese fishermen on the contrary, the day after a good fishing, were used to set sail again to fill the boat. The story is very old (it goes back to the 70s) and off course it’s a simplification. Maybe it can well represent two different souls of the Indonesian identity, not necessary different ethnic groups: the “commercial” soul and the “less ambitious” soul. In this sense I agree with Willie Rush Lim: to fully embrace the “unity in diversity” principle, it’s necessary to think as one, to consider the differences as parts of a common background, from a cultural perspective and not as expression of racial differences.
Yes, Mr Beale, this is fair. Mr Saxer’s omission of his FES affiliation ought not provoke harsh comment. It just struck me as curious when I first read his piece, as does his noting in a post above that he “work[s}inside the Thai political system”. Curious. As for his comment about the need to maintain an “awareness of certain red lines”, Mr Saxer is entitled to his own approach, but many authors–both Thai and foreign–have found ways to write sensibly and constructively about the monarchy without being charged in court or expelled from the country. The simple question is whether a broad and ambitious analysis of Thailand’s political impasse, like Mr Saxer’s, can avoid addressing not just unidentified “elites” but also the efforts of royalism on, for example, Thai (and Thai-Chinese, or “luk chin”) “middle-class” identity.
Thank-you very much for this excellent and insightful link written by Bangkok Pundit. It certainly makes for devastatingly depressing reading, and gives little hope for the future. It is so obvious that this time the crusade against corruption is merely a smokescreen for the redistribution of the spoils of corruption to that party who has received less of their share during the past nine years. There the story ends.
artikel hanya memojokkan satu pasangn,,,tidak bisa di percaya,,,bersikapla netral,,jokowi itu banyak jeleknya juga,,,contoh kecil aja,,buat jakarta hanya janji,,jokwowi tidak ada niat jadi presiden,,hanya ikutin kemauwan megawti,,kalau emang dia niat jadi presiden mudur dong jadi gubnur, entr kalau tidk terpilh mau balik lagi jdi gubenur, apa gak malu,,ya sukur2 kalau terpilh,marilah masayrakat indonesia jangn di bodohi,,,
jokowi itu juga tidk mensukuri jdi gubenur,,orang jakarta di bodohi oleh janji2 jokwo,,,
It does seem that the junta is treading gingerly – and warily – around the issue of the last remaining student anti-coup protesters. No doubt they are aware of how past mis-treatment of students – eg. Boonmee’s 1973 arrest – triggered military overthrow. Does n’t seem they believe they have full, confident control of the situation : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Anti-coup-students-vow-to-continue-dissent-against-30237848.html
Are you proud enough to head your own
political party ? What you feel as an Indonesian and how others see and treat you
may not mesh. Indonesia’s thinking has not
been “revolutionized” as you would like.
If it had, you would not be complaining, would you ?
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Mayhem in Victoria Park
For what its worth Berita Satu is running the story now. And from the videos they are using, there’s very little doubt about whom the people there was voting for.
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
I suggest that you read the article again. Although the author is negative to the coup, that is not the focus of his writing, I have to admit some of it went above my head, but looking forward, Thailand will struggle to develop good democratic institutions. That would have been the case even without the coup. The fundamentals are not in place.
So the coup supporters could be right, Thailand is not ready for democracy. The coup will of course only further cement this situation in my opinion.
Mayhem in Victoria Park
Thanks for the comments, Bayu.
1. No, I didn’t hear it myself, for which very reason I use the word ‘allegedly’ in the article. But there are witnesses, some of them I personally know, who heard the statement in their own ears. Now, whether it’s true or not that Sigit made such remarks, let’s just wait for Panwaslu’s investigation result.
2. Errr, as I was around the location (so were many other witnesses) when it happened, you may want to double check with the PPLN if they told you the truth. As for whether the protesting voters were going to vote for Jokowi, there are videos on youtube showing the protesters doing salam dua jari and all that. But you’re right in the sense that not all of them were Jokowi’s supporters. There were actually people supporting Prabowo who were protesting along with Jokowi’s supporters. I was simply stating the fact that there are now rumours saying that it was a deliberate ploy to sabotage Jokowi’s vote.
3. Again, I was simply citing Merdeka.com’s article. It wasn’t made up.
I’ll say let’s just wait for Panwaslu’s investigation.
Mayhem in Victoria Park
It is so sad to hear that voters can’t cast their votes.
1. “In the midst of this protest, Commissioner of the Election Committee (KPU) Sigit Pamungkas allegedly made the controversial remarks that the “TPS will be re-opened only if the rest of the voters vote for Number 1”.”
Did you listen it with your own ear? Or you heard a rumour?
2. “Rumours flew that the premature closing of the TPS was a deliberate ploy to sabotage the Jokowi vote”
First, it is not premature, the PPSLN said there was no queue when it was closed on 5.30 pm. Second, how did they know they voted for Jokowi?
3. “reportedly close to Golkar, the Demokrat, and the National Awakening Party (PAN).”
He was attending PDIP and other party congress too, but no report on that. Of course he has to attend that congresses, he is a lecturer in political science specialising at party and election.
Here I tell you some FACTS. Sigit was supported by PDIP, Golkar and Demokrat in the DPR during KPU selection processes and came second.
People write here are based on data not rumours.
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
Betul saya kira sudah sangat jelas. Penyampaian ini bukan sekali, tetapi berkali-kali. Anda juga bisa melihat jelas di manifesto partai Gerindra :” “Partai GERINDRA adalah partai rakyat yang berjuang untuk tegaknya Pancasila, UUD 1945 sebagaimana ditetapkan pada 18 Agustus 1945.”
http://partaigerindra.or.id/uploads/Manifesto-Perjuangan-Partai-Gerindra.pdf
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
Generally supported? By whom? The minority elite is does not represent Thais. The Thai people, i.e. voters represent Thais. How many elections do we need to proof that fact?
The missing ‘green’ questions in Indonesia presidential election
Prabowo and Jokowi as technocrats ? Ha ! Has either of them taken calculus, physics, chemistry and biology in college ? Do they know what “Green Chemistry” is ? Export substitution ? Sustainability ? Crop substitution ? Laterite destruction of arid open-spaces in primary forests ? Do they know about species diversity ? How oil palm plantations reduce forest diversity ? That Indonesia is in the top ten, on the CITES list, of threatened and endangered species, present in the nation. Has either one ever
encountered a rhino in the wild; a Rafflesia flower; a giant Amorphophallus ? Do they know which rice cultivar is best for Indonesia ?
As they do not know these things, the second question becomes, do either of them know, or care, who in Indonesia, does ?
Jokowi’s big concert
Reading from a script was indeed a sad moment and a great let down for those thousands of young people hungry for a leader articulating a better future. This raises the issue of the level of advice he’s getting – or whether he’s being given good advice and ignoring it. The other reports on organisational chaos and PDI-P in-fighting are also distressing. Do they really want to win?
One Sunday in Jakarta
Thanks for replying and pardon for not replying sooner.
It is official now that ‘the Monas event’ was an administrative violence against the rule of neutral zone not only based on the Government of Jakarta but also by KPU (Commision of General Election). The following links are examples of the news regarding this issue.
http://pemilu.sindonews.com/read/878434/113/bawaslu-putuskan-kampanye-jokowi-di-monas-pelanggaran-pemilu
http://www.republika.co.id/berita/pemilu/berita-pemilu/14/06/30/n7zf5d-kampanye-di-monas-bawaslu-putuskan-jokowi-langgar-administrasi
About the voluntarily attending supporters of Mr. Widodo, well, we know in Indonesia what we used to do when we go to a campaign. Trust me, we know it. Volunteers will always be, but the fact that they came in the uniform can also rises a question.
The point down here is that it will not be easy to build an idealized democracy in Indonesia as long as the poor, peasants, and many hard workers come from a very limited education background. They’ll always be brought to campaigns easily and soon be neglected after election and then approached again near to the upcoming election. Again and again.
Political economy of Thai political pathologies
Very selective analysis. No mention of the reason for the coup and its timings. No mention of what has been achieved on attacks on corruption and senior people being out.
The same old arguments on coup always bad, democracy always good.
There are Thais who are anti-coup, there are more that support it with reservations. Including America.
One-sided and selective analysis is not really analysis
But that is Mandala’s agenda. I’d have less of a problem with it if you were honest to admit your propaganda.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Brooklynbridge, just seeing your comment now. And wondering how logical it can possibly be to contend that a NM reader who gives him- or herself the pseudonym “Suriyon Raiwa” is “clearly . . . not familiar with” Thailand. Whaddya think?
Striving for safety
Even if it is not really in topic, I would like to share a story from Tiziano Terzani, an Italian journalist well known for his knowledge of East Asia. He spent some time with fishermen, some of them from the Chinese ethnic group. He noticed that fishermen, who returned back with the boat full of fishes, were used to leave the boat at anchor until everything is sold. Chinese fishermen on the contrary, the day after a good fishing, were used to set sail again to fill the boat. The story is very old (it goes back to the 70s) and off course it’s a simplification. Maybe it can well represent two different souls of the Indonesian identity, not necessary different ethnic groups: the “commercial” soul and the “less ambitious” soul. In this sense I agree with Willie Rush Lim: to fully embrace the “unity in diversity” principle, it’s necessary to think as one, to consider the differences as parts of a common background, from a cultural perspective and not as expression of racial differences.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Yes, Mr Beale, this is fair. Mr Saxer’s omission of his FES affiliation ought not provoke harsh comment. It just struck me as curious when I first read his piece, as does his noting in a post above that he “work[s}inside the Thai political system”. Curious. As for his comment about the need to maintain an “awareness of certain red lines”, Mr Saxer is entitled to his own approach, but many authors–both Thai and foreign–have found ways to write sensibly and constructively about the monarchy without being charged in court or expelled from the country. The simple question is whether a broad and ambitious analysis of Thailand’s political impasse, like Mr Saxer’s, can avoid addressing not just unidentified “elites” but also the efforts of royalism on, for example, Thai (and Thai-Chinese, or “luk chin”) “middle-class” identity.
Siamese dreams in the time of the junta
Dear Sceptic,
Thank-you very much for this excellent and insightful link written by Bangkok Pundit. It certainly makes for devastatingly depressing reading, and gives little hope for the future. It is so obvious that this time the crusade against corruption is merely a smokescreen for the redistribution of the spoils of corruption to that party who has received less of their share during the past nine years. There the story ends.
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
artikel hanya memojokkan satu pasangn,,,tidak bisa di percaya,,,bersikapla netral,,jokowi itu banyak jeleknya juga,,,contoh kecil aja,,buat jakarta hanya janji,,jokwowi tidak ada niat jadi presiden,,hanya ikutin kemauwan megawti,,kalau emang dia niat jadi presiden mudur dong jadi gubnur, entr kalau tidk terpilh mau balik lagi jdi gubenur, apa gak malu,,ya sukur2 kalau terpilh,marilah masayrakat indonesia jangn di bodohi,,,
jokowi itu juga tidk mensukuri jdi gubenur,,orang jakarta di bodohi oleh janji2 jokwo,,,
Demokrasi Indonesia Dalam Bahaya
kata siapa tidak ada prestasi,,,
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
And yet further sign that the junta may not easily get its own way – even from some of the “independent agencies” : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/No-appointed-MPs-discussed-EC-30237473.html
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
It does seem that the junta is treading gingerly – and warily – around the issue of the last remaining student anti-coup protesters. No doubt they are aware of how past mis-treatment of students – eg. Boonmee’s 1973 arrest – triggered military overthrow. Does n’t seem they believe they have full, confident control of the situation : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Anti-coup-students-vow-to-continue-dissent-against-30237848.html
Jangan tertipu – Prabowo (masih) ingin menghapus pemilihan presiden secara langsung
[…] has called for rolling back Indonesians’ right to vote in direct elections. He has suggested that this be done after […]
Striving for safety
Willie,
Are you proud enough to head your own
political party ? What you feel as an Indonesian and how others see and treat you
may not mesh. Indonesia’s thinking has not
been “revolutionized” as you would like.
If it had, you would not be complaining, would you ?