Very interesting point David Owen Arnaz (very interesting name too).
You noted: “Why so much talk about malay ‘elitist’ while you can clearly see how the ‘super rich’ of other races bully their own people if not others…”
Could you please be more specific in what you mean here by clearly explaining this or providing examples or even anecdotes?
Thank you very much for this the work you did to research this article. It’s remarkable that the best journalistic works comes from a person doing this on their own expenses.
Have you ever considered crownfunding to finance more research into those things?
Chris Coles’ presentation at the FCCT was excellent. It was a joy to listen him speak, and at the same time showing slides of many of the great expressionist painters, bringing his art into the same context that inspired me almost 20 years ago to start my night photos.
He has shown only his large acrylics, which are very very strong. Colors and composition are Bangkok night, and do convey the feeling of these nights in great emotional depth, and including its many ambiguities.
Well, for those who can move beyond simplistic judgements…
And personally – i am glad that New Mandala makes space for creative work.
Say what you like..strongly believe majority of the local Malays here are simple people and accommodating too. I have been visiting houses of various races, all of you please do, you can feel and see the difference. The smile in their faces (of the Malays) and how they receive you.
Try it out…simply ask for road direction in case you are lost somewhere in the kampong. Try it out too…if your are lost in the new village. Please be truthful about the findings.
Why so much talk about malay ‘elitist’ while you can clearly see how the ‘super rich’ of other races bully their own people if not others.
It’s so interesting trying to understand the Malaysians.
I agree with the general tone and direction of this article, and I think that Sihanouk continues to be misjudged by many in the Western world. Sirik Matak’s remarks that the process of Cambodian politics is a mystery to many non-Cambodians certainly springs to mind, and probably has some merit beyond the smokes and mirrors it is often attributed to.
That said, I do take exception to one section of your argument. You state that Sihanouk “brought modest but solid prosperity and progress to Cam┬нbodia”, and this is certainly true for the “golden period” of the late 1950s and early 1960s. One of Sihanouk’s greatest successes was his development and expansion of education in Cambodia, yet one of his biggest failures was that he proved unable to expand the economy or bureaucracy to accommodate these newly educated Khmers.
Throughout the 1960s Sihanouk suppressed the development of institutionalisation in Cambodia, and also precluded the opportunity for competitive democracy in the 1950s, and again after the infamous 1966 elections. Having spent the last year researching this topic, I know that primary documents show a real and genuine push from large sections of Cambodian society for Sihanouk’s removal, and that this act was supported by many more Khmers at the time than the narrow “urban elite”. It is not enough to simply blame the Americans. The documents do suggest at least the complicity of the US and their help in facilitating the coup, but this is not the same thing as being wholly or solely responsible for it.
By the late 1960s Cambodia’s economic progress was well and truly on the rocks. Of course, in retrospect this period seems benign in light of what came after. Yet it is easy to forget that Sihanouk suppressed economic policies that were designed to reverse Cambodia’s ailing economy, policies that were being implemented by democratically elected officials – who had won their mandate in the most open and fair election of the entire Sihanouk period.
His divide and rule tactics were certainly successful in maintaining his own power, but also pushed many segments of society into extremism and exclusion, rather than inclusion and expression within the political system. This applies to more groups than merely the Khmer Rouge. Perhaps if Sihanouk had allowed more accommodation or openness for avenues of political expression, then some of the extremities of the following decades might have been avoided.
Laos is being sold out by the corrupt communist government. The people must rise up and take back their land, otherwise it looks like Laos will be another Tibet.
The only person who truly understood the what, the why, the how and even the whens and where of the March – May 2010 bloody Red/Black Shirts was General Khattiya who gave a chronological reporting of how the violence (including the many M79 grenade launcher attacks) would occur before they occurred.
Is that why he was assassinated . . . to quiet his daily garrulousness?
This thread is just another example of how far this NM blog lost its original track. The level of discussion is equally low as the contributed bits and pieces. Chris Coles works are symptomatic for that.
Btw: This post will definitely be censored or rather not published since my opinion is not conform with the mods perspectives. Poor advertising for the NM blog and the ANU in general.
“I tend to respect people more when they post under their own names, “
Sure, I understand. Whom you respect and why are your choices. Whether or not he chooses to post under his real name is his choice. Mine too. ‘Fraid you’ll just have to learn how to live with that.
“I find it particularly distasteful when people have no problem with posting other comments under their real name, and yet slink behind a pseudonym when they want to be particularly malicious.”
Fully agree here, though since you already said you don’t know who Norm is, then I guess its just conjecture. Which is really what Norm was suggesting Nick was doing if I read it right.
“There is no credible safety reason for “Norm” to hide his identity in this exchange, we are not in 112 territory here.”
Well, that’s what you think. I don’t agree with you and that’s what I think. Nor, apparently, does Norm (whom I do not know by the way), and that appears to be what he thinks.
“People who resort to online sock-puppetry in their determination to denigrate those they disagree with should not expect any respect from me. “
You cannot be unaware that assuming pseudonyms is an internet tradition and a common practice. It is evidently one that you do not engage in and you have the right to choose whether to or not, as Norm does. However, according to my perception, drawn from personal experience as all good perceptions are, you seem to be in a small minority, even here on New Mandala.
“Sorry.”
Don’t see why, you’re as entitled to your opinions as we all are. Including Norm. Personally I saw nothing wrong with Norm’s first post but I did think your response was an over-reaction and was surprised at that, having read your many contributions about the Thai monarchy and those wonderful Hi-something stories you relayed. Perhaps you and Nick are friends, which would make it understandable and less mysterious. Personally I defend people or not based on whether I think they’re right or not, and not on the basis of friendship, but that’s just me
Nobody is bound to agree with Norm, though I did. Nobody is bound to agree with you either, and I didn’t.
I’m sure it can’t be – anyone with aspirations to be taken seriously would surely avoid such behaviour. Perhaps somebody is mimicking his trademark views and language in order to frame him for blatant sock puppetry and craven anonymous sniping. I think we can all agree that such devious antics should be roundly condemned.
I tend to respect people more when they post under their own names, especially when making snide attacks on others. I find it particularly distasteful when people have no problem with posting other comments under their real name, and yet slink behind a pseudonym when they want to be particularly malicious. There is no credible safety reason for “Norm” to hide his identity in this exchange, we are not in 112 territory here. People who resort to online sock-puppetry in their determination to denigrate those they disagree with should not expect any respect from me. Sorry.
“The Malaysian public did not even find out about Lynas operations in Pahang until the construction of LAMP was almost finished. They read about it in the New York Times.”
You can not be serious!! Do you honestly take people of sound mind and judgment as fools with this statement?
How large is this project?
It’s being built in a designated industrial area of Kuantan!
Surely a project of this size wouldn’t of gone un-noticed!
I have friends in kL that new about the project months in the build!!!
Just come out and say it, your working for the opposition!
Sure, its an opinion. Peer review is always interesting but it has its limits. I recall seeing George Bush snr saying what a great job George W Bush (arguably the most disastrous president the USA has seen since Ronald Reagan) was doing.
If I’m buying chocolate I buy what consumers say is good, not what manufacturers say is goo. See what I mean? Unless of course consumer opinion isn’t allowed…
Like the traditional internet pseudonyms it seems. And being a supporter of PT.
Respect all opinions Andrew, isn’t that supposed to the moral high ground?
I think the key issue is that Malaysians do not understand the concept of “citizenship”.
It should not matter what your heritage is or how long you have been in Malaysia.
What is important is if you/one is a citizen – that the rights accorded should be similar. This is not the case in Malaysia.
And it is not the issue that it is badly implemented. It is the thinking behind it (that Malays deserve to be accorded special privileges because they are “natives’).
My question to you Faz,
Will Muslims or Malays (Malaysians) accept non-Muslim (Malaysian) leadership purely based on merit.
It is demonstrably clear that the majority of Malays and Muslims will insist only on Muslim leadership either from UMNO, PKR or PAS.
And I believe this is the real tragedy of Malaysia.
That Muslim and Malay Malaysians cannot accept non-Muslim Malaysians as leaders even when there are several of them who are demonstrably better than the present set of available Muslim leaders (From PAS, PKR and UMNO).
I did not go too deeply into the Red Shirt village movement, but i spoke sometime last year with Kamolsilp Singhasuriya, one of the founders, and also Tida Thawornset. Both insisted that the Red Shirt village movement is independent of the UDD. Tida said that the UDD is more in an advisory role.
Naturally, there will be a myriad of overlaps, as the Red Shirts are a social mass movement, and not a military organization.
During the Sor Bor Bor rally i asked the organizers about their relationship with the Red Shirt village movement, and they said that they have relationships with them longer than this movement started their organizational structures.
From what i can see the Red Shirt village movement only formalized in a loose structure a condition that has existed already long before. But i would of course welcome a more informed research into this subject matter (maybe some of my anonymous critics here, instead of being just condescending, could come up with such 😉 , or at least point me to one).
Gathering from my conversations with groups affiliated with the Red Shirt movement, it appears to me that this movement has been formed primarily for three main reasons – the first that at the time, after the 2010 crackdown, upcountry Red Shirts needed, lacking main leaders who were mostly in prison or in exile, a structure, secondly, as a separate lateral organizational structure in case of a military coup to resist on local level instead of resistance centered in Bangkok where they will be automatically at a disadvantage (lessen learned from the 2010 crackdown), and thirdly to increase indoctrination and political education on local level.
Talking with military officers about this movement, they seem to be quite concerned especially about the second reason, and none of their counter strategies have had much success, such as the attempt to set up different monarchy protection volunteer organizations in the Red heartlands.
But, as i said, i have not researched this too deeply. I also have a life other than Red/Yellow. I am also not getting paid to do these articles, i have no sponsor, monthly salary or grant, and fund my work myself. My books make a bit of money, but it does not even cover my expenses. There is a limit how much i am able spend on all this. All this is a free service, and i can’t do everything.
In my view, Nick Nostitz is by far the best foreign journalist reporting from Thailand. He is also resolutely honest and non-ideological, unlike some of his detractors who insist on sniping from behind pseudonyms. Get a life, “Norm”, your pro-PT cheerleading is increasingly tedious.
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Malaysia after regime change – Kikue Hamayotsu
Very interesting point David Owen Arnaz (very interesting name too).
You noted: “Why so much talk about malay ‘elitist’ while you can clearly see how the ‘super rich’ of other races bully their own people if not others…”
Could you please be more specific in what you mean here by clearly explaining this or providing examples or even anecdotes?
Here were Men in Black!
Thank you very much for this the work you did to research this article. It’s remarkable that the best journalistic works comes from a person doing this on their own expenses.
Have you ever considered crownfunding to finance more research into those things?
German expressionism and the Bangkok night
Thanks Khon Chon,
We have been very patient. But you really should pick one moniker and stick to it. Have we been censoring your alter-egos?
Best wishes to all,
Nich
German expressionism and the Bangkok night
Chris Coles’ presentation at the FCCT was excellent. It was a joy to listen him speak, and at the same time showing slides of many of the great expressionist painters, bringing his art into the same context that inspired me almost 20 years ago to start my night photos.
He has shown only his large acrylics, which are very very strong. Colors and composition are Bangkok night, and do convey the feeling of these nights in great emotional depth, and including its many ambiguities.
Well, for those who can move beyond simplistic judgements…
And personally – i am glad that New Mandala makes space for creative work.
Malaysia after regime change – Kikue Hamayotsu
Say what you like..strongly believe majority of the local Malays here are simple people and accommodating too. I have been visiting houses of various races, all of you please do, you can feel and see the difference. The smile in their faces (of the Malays) and how they receive you.
Try it out…simply ask for road direction in case you are lost somewhere in the kampong. Try it out too…if your are lost in the new village. Please be truthful about the findings.
Why so much talk about malay ‘elitist’ while you can clearly see how the ‘super rich’ of other races bully their own people if not others.
It’s so interesting trying to understand the Malaysians.
A much misunderstood monarch
I agree with the general tone and direction of this article, and I think that Sihanouk continues to be misjudged by many in the Western world. Sirik Matak’s remarks that the process of Cambodian politics is a mystery to many non-Cambodians certainly springs to mind, and probably has some merit beyond the smokes and mirrors it is often attributed to.
That said, I do take exception to one section of your argument. You state that Sihanouk “brought modest but solid prosperity and progress to Cam┬нbodia”, and this is certainly true for the “golden period” of the late 1950s and early 1960s. One of Sihanouk’s greatest successes was his development and expansion of education in Cambodia, yet one of his biggest failures was that he proved unable to expand the economy or bureaucracy to accommodate these newly educated Khmers.
Throughout the 1960s Sihanouk suppressed the development of institutionalisation in Cambodia, and also precluded the opportunity for competitive democracy in the 1950s, and again after the infamous 1966 elections. Having spent the last year researching this topic, I know that primary documents show a real and genuine push from large sections of Cambodian society for Sihanouk’s removal, and that this act was supported by many more Khmers at the time than the narrow “urban elite”. It is not enough to simply blame the Americans. The documents do suggest at least the complicity of the US and their help in facilitating the coup, but this is not the same thing as being wholly or solely responsible for it.
By the late 1960s Cambodia’s economic progress was well and truly on the rocks. Of course, in retrospect this period seems benign in light of what came after. Yet it is easy to forget that Sihanouk suppressed economic policies that were designed to reverse Cambodia’s ailing economy, policies that were being implemented by democratically elected officials – who had won their mandate in the most open and fair election of the entire Sihanouk period.
His divide and rule tactics were certainly successful in maintaining his own power, but also pushed many segments of society into extremism and exclusion, rather than inclusion and expression within the political system. This applies to more groups than merely the Khmer Rouge. Perhaps if Sihanouk had allowed more accommodation or openness for avenues of political expression, then some of the extremities of the following decades might have been avoided.
Don Chan: once were tomatoes
Laos is being sold out by the corrupt communist government. The people must rise up and take back their land, otherwise it looks like Laos will be another Tibet.
Understanding Bangkok’s bloody April-May 2010
The only person who truly understood the what, the why, the how and even the whens and where of the March – May 2010 bloody Red/Black Shirts was General Khattiya who gave a chronological reporting of how the violence (including the many M79 grenade launcher attacks) would occur before they occurred.
Is that why he was assassinated . . . to quiet his daily garrulousness?
German expressionism and the Bangkok night
This thread is just another example of how far this NM blog lost its original track. The level of discussion is equally low as the contributed bits and pieces. Chris Coles works are symptomatic for that.
Btw: This post will definitely be censored or rather not published since my opinion is not conform with the mods perspectives. Poor advertising for the NM blog and the ANU in general.
Here were Men in Black!
“I tend to respect people more when they post under their own names, “
Sure, I understand. Whom you respect and why are your choices. Whether or not he chooses to post under his real name is his choice. Mine too. ‘Fraid you’ll just have to learn how to live with that.
“I find it particularly distasteful when people have no problem with posting other comments under their real name, and yet slink behind a pseudonym when they want to be particularly malicious.”
Fully agree here, though since you already said you don’t know who Norm is, then I guess its just conjecture. Which is really what Norm was suggesting Nick was doing if I read it right.
“There is no credible safety reason for “Norm” to hide his identity in this exchange, we are not in 112 territory here.”
Well, that’s what you think. I don’t agree with you and that’s what I think. Nor, apparently, does Norm (whom I do not know by the way), and that appears to be what he thinks.
“People who resort to online sock-puppetry in their determination to denigrate those they disagree with should not expect any respect from me. “
You cannot be unaware that assuming pseudonyms is an internet tradition and a common practice. It is evidently one that you do not engage in and you have the right to choose whether to or not, as Norm does. However, according to my perception, drawn from personal experience as all good perceptions are, you seem to be in a small minority, even here on New Mandala.
“Sorry.”
Don’t see why, you’re as entitled to your opinions as we all are. Including Norm. Personally I saw nothing wrong with Norm’s first post but I did think your response was an over-reaction and was surprised at that, having read your many contributions about the Thai monarchy and those wonderful Hi-something stories you relayed. Perhaps you and Nick are friends, which would make it understandable and less mysterious. Personally I defend people or not based on whether I think they’re right or not, and not on the basis of friendship, but that’s just me
Nobody is bound to agree with Norm, though I did. Nobody is bound to agree with you either, and I didn’t.
Here were Men in Black!
I’m sure it can’t be – anyone with aspirations to be taken seriously would surely avoid such behaviour. Perhaps somebody is mimicking his trademark views and language in order to frame him for blatant sock puppetry and craven anonymous sniping. I think we can all agree that such devious antics should be roundly condemned.
A much misunderstood monarch
It’s short but well written.
Here were Men in Black!
I tend to respect people more when they post under their own names, especially when making snide attacks on others. I find it particularly distasteful when people have no problem with posting other comments under their real name, and yet slink behind a pseudonym when they want to be particularly malicious. There is no credible safety reason for “Norm” to hide his identity in this exchange, we are not in 112 territory here. People who resort to online sock-puppetry in their determination to denigrate those they disagree with should not expect any respect from me. Sorry.
Here were Men in Black!
“none of which has ever been properly cross-examined, substantiated or investigated.” >> Is “Norm” a reincarnation of Andrew Spooner, I wonder?
Lynas Corporation for dummies (and Australians)
“The Malaysian public did not even find out about Lynas operations in Pahang until the construction of LAMP was almost finished. They read about it in the New York Times.”
You can not be serious!! Do you honestly take people of sound mind and judgment as fools with this statement?
How large is this project?
It’s being built in a designated industrial area of Kuantan!
Surely a project of this size wouldn’t of gone un-noticed!
I have friends in kL that new about the project months in the build!!!
Just come out and say it, your working for the opposition!
Here were Men in Black!
“Compared to the English language press, Nick is quite informative.”
Sure, I agree.
But it *is* a bit like saying not to complain about getting the clap ‘cos you might have got AIDS instead.
Here were Men in Black!
Sure, its an opinion. Peer review is always interesting but it has its limits. I recall seeing George Bush snr saying what a great job George W Bush (arguably the most disastrous president the USA has seen since Ronald Reagan) was doing.
If I’m buying chocolate I buy what consumers say is good, not what manufacturers say is goo. See what I mean? Unless of course consumer opinion isn’t allowed…
Like the traditional internet pseudonyms it seems. And being a supporter of PT.
Respect all opinions Andrew, isn’t that supposed to the moral high ground?
Evidence of racism in Malaysia?
Faz, thanks for sharing your views.
I think the key issue is that Malaysians do not understand the concept of “citizenship”.
It should not matter what your heritage is or how long you have been in Malaysia.
What is important is if you/one is a citizen – that the rights accorded should be similar. This is not the case in Malaysia.
And it is not the issue that it is badly implemented. It is the thinking behind it (that Malays deserve to be accorded special privileges because they are “natives’).
My question to you Faz,
Will Muslims or Malays (Malaysians) accept non-Muslim (Malaysian) leadership purely based on merit.
It is demonstrably clear that the majority of Malays and Muslims will insist only on Muslim leadership either from UMNO, PKR or PAS.
And I believe this is the real tragedy of Malaysia.
That Muslim and Malay Malaysians cannot accept non-Muslim Malaysians as leaders even when there are several of them who are demonstrably better than the present set of available Muslim leaders (From PAS, PKR and UMNO).
Will be very interested to hear your views.
Here were Men in Black!
I did not go too deeply into the Red Shirt village movement, but i spoke sometime last year with Kamolsilp Singhasuriya, one of the founders, and also Tida Thawornset. Both insisted that the Red Shirt village movement is independent of the UDD. Tida said that the UDD is more in an advisory role.
Naturally, there will be a myriad of overlaps, as the Red Shirts are a social mass movement, and not a military organization.
During the Sor Bor Bor rally i asked the organizers about their relationship with the Red Shirt village movement, and they said that they have relationships with them longer than this movement started their organizational structures.
From what i can see the Red Shirt village movement only formalized in a loose structure a condition that has existed already long before. But i would of course welcome a more informed research into this subject matter (maybe some of my anonymous critics here, instead of being just condescending, could come up with such 😉 , or at least point me to one).
Gathering from my conversations with groups affiliated with the Red Shirt movement, it appears to me that this movement has been formed primarily for three main reasons – the first that at the time, after the 2010 crackdown, upcountry Red Shirts needed, lacking main leaders who were mostly in prison or in exile, a structure, secondly, as a separate lateral organizational structure in case of a military coup to resist on local level instead of resistance centered in Bangkok where they will be automatically at a disadvantage (lessen learned from the 2010 crackdown), and thirdly to increase indoctrination and political education on local level.
Talking with military officers about this movement, they seem to be quite concerned especially about the second reason, and none of their counter strategies have had much success, such as the attempt to set up different monarchy protection volunteer organizations in the Red heartlands.
But, as i said, i have not researched this too deeply. I also have a life other than Red/Yellow. I am also not getting paid to do these articles, i have no sponsor, monthly salary or grant, and fund my work myself. My books make a bit of money, but it does not even cover my expenses. There is a limit how much i am able spend on all this. All this is a free service, and i can’t do everything.
Here were Men in Black!
In my view, Nick Nostitz is by far the best foreign journalist reporting from Thailand. He is also resolutely honest and non-ideological, unlike some of his detractors who insist on sniping from behind pseudonyms. Get a life, “Norm”, your pro-PT cheerleading is increasingly tedious.