The 7/7/06 cable that Patrick Jory @11 describes (which Ambassador Boyce titled “Steak with Thaksin”) contains another interesting tidbit.
We all know General Sonthi assured everyone before the coup that he would not stage a coup. But according to Thaksin, Sonthi virtually swore to that effect. As Boyce says in his cable:
I asked Thaksin about the coup rumors swirling
recently. He said that he had met with Army Commander Sonthi
and told him, \”I promoted you to Army Commander, and I\’d like
you to stay in the job. But I need to know that you won\’t
give in if anyone tries to get you to participate in a coup
against me.\” Sonthi assured Thaksin, he said, that as a
Muslim and therefore a moral person, he would never condone a
coup.
Sonthi invoked his religion! And then broke his vow.
No, I don’t believe that TRT ordered the killings. I’m saying the populace won’t forget who was nominally in charge when they happened, or Thaksin’s explanation for the deaths.
I presume you are familiar with his public statement that they died “because their bodies were weak from fasting”, which he made in English on national TV. That and other insensitivities turned a one-lame-bomb-every-two-years insurgency into the serious confrontation we have now.
I don’t know how you justify the idea that “TRT can’t be blamed”. They were the government. They had a moral obligation to hang those responsible out to dry regardless of who was responsible and they didn’t even try.
The Laos government aims to build on that by creating a network of routes that would eventually link it to neighboring China, Vietnam and Cambodia.
…read…
The Chinese government aims to build on that by creating a network of routes that would eventually link it to neighboring Vietnam and Cambodia through Laos.
While Malaysia is a stable albeit dysfunctional democracy (Malaysia has no history of violent class or religious conflicts with May 13 being the only significant racial conflict)
Everyday, this nostrum gets closer and closer to being shown for the outright falsehood it has always been.
“If you mention or question Islam they will rise up ” he said.
The Malays have always been quick to rattle the blood-stained kris when the kufr have the audacity to question their shaira-mandated dhimmitude, [semantically obscured by the Sanskrit term bhumiputra].
Poor little Ekram, perhaps you should write in Bahasa Melayu, then we can work out what you really want to say. Well at least say it more eloquently. As it is your silly ranting sounds like “little boy lost”
Good to see Tony (#1) being consistent. He doesn’t just support dictatorship in Thailand, but also Malaysia, Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc.
I also find his logic to be brilliant. See, if you accept a few thousand dollars in grants from US foundations to advocate for human rights and democracy in a third world dictatorship, you are a “globalist” and a “traitor.” But if you accept billions of dollars from the US government/military, and use the money to murder, censor, arrest, and propagandize your way into staying in power against the wishes of your own people, you are national hero.
It’s no wonder the stuffy, corrupt academics who run this site didn’t come up with something like this. For this kind of analysis you don’t need a PhD. More like a lobotomy…
Tony, we need to also examine where you are coming from and who are your sources of info and with what intentions this is said before we jump into your bandwagon…tired of being taken for a ride : ) As with all comments and articles, one needs to take them with a pinch of salt….all Bersih is asking for is clean elections in its agenda. full stop….(for the moment). Election is not a game to play, it is an engine to provide the right n capable leaders to manage the various portfolios in the country and we cannot leave that to those who crave power and glory with no credentials or who arent really capable or qualified to do so. This is a check n balance. If the opposition takes over and messes things up, another Bersih may be needed till the system is stabilised…n established.
people are saying ISA is bad. we as a democracy country shouldn’t have this type of law.
its oppresion to the people..
i wonder if this people have look at Patriot Act which the US who is the godfather of democracy have and are practicing it themself.
this is the same country who said ISA is bad.
this is the same country who used military force to invade a sovereign country just in the name of democracy.
well we know whats is their real intention when they invade iraq and aghanistan.
Tony(#1) – Talk about criminals! Try “examining the backgrounds” of the people running Malaysia for the past few decades and then tell us what you are defending. You can start with the BMF scandal and work your way up to the murder of Mongolian model Altantuya Shaarribuu.
“why dont u look at apartheid it self n how it was created n look to whom it affected…”
why dont you..
“look at Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, SYRIA it self n how it was created n look to whom it affected…
before that dont simply said it out loud…”
if you are arguing of the similarities of these countries in terms of the detrimental impact of street demo, why don’t you allow others to justify the similarities between the polarization policies applied through the apartheid system with let’s say the education system in Malaysia? Buying houses with different prices? uneducated targets like % bumi equity being applied to hardworking non-bumis in Malaysia? Little boy, lets not talk about racial discrimination.. lets talk about BN being the supremacist thinking they can do whatever they want and the people have to put up with their garbage such as controlling the media, rigging / corrupting the electoral system (Najib’s you help me and I help you 5 million Sibu issue), arresting of 6 PSM members?… if you view the segregation in this light boy, you will see the correlations …you are not white, i am not black.. but you are definately green.. boy..
Bersih’s leadership admits it is funded by the US government via National Endowment for Democracy’s NDI as well as by bankster George Soros’ Open Society. Anwar’s opposition front is obviously using Bersih for his own ends. That he too is a frequent guest at NED functions and entwined with US’s political and corporate elite suggests something far more sinister at work in Malaysia.
Wouldn’t expect, however for the “journalists” and “academics” here at New Mandala to actually look into who these people really are and where their money comes from and what their real motives are. Its far more fun to just jump on the “democracy” bandwagon and help exploit the intentions and energy of well meaning people duped by these absolute utter criminals.
For the US’s part, funding foreign political movements is an act of war, for Bersih’s part taking that money is treason. Examining the backgrounds of those lining democracy advocates like NED and Freedom House we see confessed warmongers and corporate-interests involved – their intentions obviously inconsistent with “democracy.”
‘Corruption perceptions’ . . . most people usually miss the point relevant Thailand and Thaksin. Corruption Perception Indexes go up or down indefinitely and it is more likely a truism that corruption in Thailand (or any other country) would be an impossibility to eliminate.
The real point is that the ‘corruption perception’ about Thaksin the PM by the Thais and the by the world had been at a phenomenal high . . . before, during and after Thaksin’s rule. Meaning . . . the corruption tag attaches to the person of Thaksin in a rather big (godzilan) way.
Could you say the same about former PM’s Chuan or Abhisit? Nah . . . because these two former Thai PM’s had been honest and near religious about getting ‘personally’ implicated in any corruption period.
Whereas Thaksin had admitted and never denied that yes he and his wife were corrupt.
[…] that the Democrats would have difficulty holding their five current seats in Thailand’s Deep South, the Democrats instead ran away with nine out of 11 constituent seats. This has led many to ask: […]
To be fair and “non partisan”, the only “real” reason that Bersih needs to be pushed on hard by the rakyat, is to ensure that a “level playing field” is returned to the political game in Malaysia. In all honesty, I don’t really care if BN or Pakatan come into power after the next election. What I, and I believe a lot of Malaysians would like to see is a better quality of elected leadership, and accountability.
Unfortunately being too long at the top, and having a free hand at “gerrymandering” and “misusing” federal institutions, has caused a lot of rot to set in, and allow less than capable (or credible) people to usurp positions of power.
This is what has been the most damaging.
Unfortunately, the only way that this can be fixed is by “making” BN lose a term and know what its like having the shoe on the other foot. As they have had the signs and warnings given to them over the past 10 years quite clearly and despite all the talk…very little has changed…
you cannot siomply refer malaysia to apartheid.
why dont u look at apartheid it self n how it was created n look to whom it affected…
before that dont simply said it out loud…
Malaysia is apartheid like, not quiet the same, in its propagation of imaginary races, the need to social engineer and practice discrimination against minorities to correct Malay inequality and lack of opportunity in the face of ‘superior’ Indian and Chinese abilities and intellects
Simon, so you think that TRT ordered the killings? So why the Dems & their allies haven’t hang them out to dry yet? This is even more puzzling, since they had total power for yrs.
IMO, the fact that they can’t convict ANY speaks more loudly than any action they can ever take. Either Army was guilty, or TRT can’t be blamed, take your pick.
Remember that in this country, you can throw a PM out of his office for hosting a cooking show. The courts are willing to lend a hand to tie a noose around TRT’s remains. So where’s the case now?
Ekram, you must be sleeping or living on the other side of Malaysia with a silver foot in your mouth.. hence your blabber and nonsensical analysis….
we malaysian are well known for being mild mannered.
why must take to the street? <– hoho.. Perkasa's rhetoric are mild mannered? they are downright racists and the cowhead protesters took it to the street too… the only difference is, one is filled with hate and the other asked for a fair and just election.. to be honest, it was suppose to be taken into the stadium.. however some Perkasa supporting UMNO acting PM took renege on his word.. whatever manners I have towards a person, I will still flick my finger to a liar..
"is there really an economic crisis in the country?
does unployment rate is skyrocket high?
does our graduates can’t find a good job?
are people being arrested in the middle of the night and not being seen again?
is there any food crisis?
is there a secret police in the county?" yes yes yes yes yes yes you blind fool…. 1. Middle income trap (go read) 2. Unfair employment based on ethnic proportions yes.. ICA 1975 (go read) 3. I can introduce a UMS finance graduate working as a petrol pump boy because he couldn't utter a proper sentence no THANKS to your quota (NOT meritocracy) entry system into local uni 4. I know a 14 year old boy was being shot / a PM that blows up prostitute and a bunch of FRUs firing into a hospital 5. Inflation (go read what this mean) 6. Your 3rd line of silat clowns claimed by Najib..
"it seem none of the above happen or occurred in our country, but allt he above does existed in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, Syiria" <– it is spelled Syria.. go ahead.. if your son gets a F minus in Mathematics you should be proud because he is the top student in Rwanda primary school… no wonder you are an underachiever because you compare yourself with gutter-like standards…with respect to Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, SYRIA, their people dare to voice out when they are pissed off as a government… YOU on the other hand think that the people will stay silent because your weak ego wants us to…
we cant go arround and say what ever we want without thinking of the feeling of others or the consequences of what we said or write or do..<– IBRAHIM ALI .. he gets away with it.. Utusan gets away with what they say… but you shall not.. for I am now hounding every single word you say …
"and i believe street protest will bring much hurt than happiness to the people…" To begin with, it is a street rally… PEACEFUL street rally until BN and their so called silat group along with a buffoon called Hishamuddin called in the police / FRUs… and the aftermath as you can see from the videos all around internet..(please get internet, it helps you to learn about others … not always hoping others to tolerate you) .. Regarding street protest bringing harm? Martin Luther just called and with a sad tone he wanted to tell you "Bitch please…"
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More on Marshall’s Thai Story
The 7/7/06 cable that Patrick Jory @11 describes (which Ambassador Boyce titled “Steak with Thaksin”) contains another interesting tidbit.
We all know General Sonthi assured everyone before the coup that he would not stage a coup. But according to Thaksin, Sonthi virtually swore to that effect. As Boyce says in his cable:
Sonthi invoked his religion! And then broke his vow.
Thailand’s corruption record
So Vichai N. Remind me: how many people did Pol Pot personally kill?
Democrat dominance in the deep south
No, I don’t believe that TRT ordered the killings. I’m saying the populace won’t forget who was nominally in charge when they happened, or Thaksin’s explanation for the deaths.
I presume you are familiar with his public statement that they died “because their bodies were weak from fasting”, which he made in English on national TV. That and other insensitivities turned a one-lame-bomb-every-two-years insurgency into the serious confrontation we have now.
I don’t know how you justify the idea that “TRT can’t be blamed”. They were the government. They had a moral obligation to hang those responsible out to dry regardless of who was responsible and they didn’t even try.
Unlocking Laos
Shouldn’t…
…read…
?
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
While Malaysia is a stable albeit dysfunctional democracy (Malaysia has no history of violent class or religious conflicts with May 13 being the only significant racial conflict)
Everyday, this nostrum gets closer and closer to being shown for the outright falsehood it has always been.
For example, a mere four days ago:
During his speech Najib thanked everyone who attended the “Majlis Penerangan Perdana” event saying that the NGOs present including silat [Malay marital arts] organisations were waiting to defend the country at a drop of a hat
“If you mention or question Islam they will rise up ” he said.
The Malays have always been quick to rattle the blood-stained kris when the kufr have the audacity to question their shaira-mandated dhimmitude, [semantically obscured by the Sanskrit term bhumiputra].
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
Poor little Ekram, perhaps you should write in Bahasa Melayu, then we can work out what you really want to say. Well at least say it more eloquently. As it is your silly ranting sounds like “little boy lost”
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
Good to see Tony (#1) being consistent. He doesn’t just support dictatorship in Thailand, but also Malaysia, Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc.
I also find his logic to be brilliant. See, if you accept a few thousand dollars in grants from US foundations to advocate for human rights and democracy in a third world dictatorship, you are a “globalist” and a “traitor.” But if you accept billions of dollars from the US government/military, and use the money to murder, censor, arrest, and propagandize your way into staying in power against the wishes of your own people, you are national hero.
It’s no wonder the stuffy, corrupt academics who run this site didn’t come up with something like this. For this kind of analysis you don’t need a PhD. More like a lobotomy…
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
Tony, we need to also examine where you are coming from and who are your sources of info and with what intentions this is said before we jump into your bandwagon…tired of being taken for a ride : ) As with all comments and articles, one needs to take them with a pinch of salt….all Bersih is asking for is clean elections in its agenda. full stop….(for the moment). Election is not a game to play, it is an engine to provide the right n capable leaders to manage the various portfolios in the country and we cannot leave that to those who crave power and glory with no credentials or who arent really capable or qualified to do so. This is a check n balance. If the opposition takes over and messes things up, another Bersih may be needed till the system is stabilised…n established.
Thailand’s corruption record
Vichai N #18
“‘Corruption perceptions’ . . . most people usually miss the point relevant Thailand and Thaksin. ”
mmm yes I agree
how lucky we are that you and Sondhi Lim (perennial bankrupt and toady Royalist) are in the minority trying to run against the majority tide.
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
people are saying ISA is bad. we as a democracy country shouldn’t have this type of law.
its oppresion to the people..
i wonder if this people have look at Patriot Act which the US who is the godfather of democracy have and are practicing it themself.
this is the same country who said ISA is bad.
this is the same country who used military force to invade a sovereign country just in the name of democracy.
well we know whats is their real intention when they invade iraq and aghanistan.
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
Tony(#1) – Talk about criminals! Try “examining the backgrounds” of the people running Malaysia for the past few decades and then tell us what you are defending. You can start with the BMF scandal and work your way up to the murder of Mongolian model Altantuya Shaarribuu.
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
“why dont u look at apartheid it self n how it was created n look to whom it affected…”
why dont you..
“look at Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, SYRIA it self n how it was created n look to whom it affected…
before that dont simply said it out loud…”
if you are arguing of the similarities of these countries in terms of the detrimental impact of street demo, why don’t you allow others to justify the similarities between the polarization policies applied through the apartheid system with let’s say the education system in Malaysia? Buying houses with different prices? uneducated targets like % bumi equity being applied to hardworking non-bumis in Malaysia? Little boy, lets not talk about racial discrimination.. lets talk about BN being the supremacist thinking they can do whatever they want and the people have to put up with their garbage such as controlling the media, rigging / corrupting the electoral system (Najib’s you help me and I help you 5 million Sibu issue), arresting of 6 PSM members?… if you view the segregation in this light boy, you will see the correlations …you are not white, i am not black.. but you are definately green.. boy..
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
Bersih’s leadership admits it is funded by the US government via National Endowment for Democracy’s NDI as well as by bankster George Soros’ Open Society. Anwar’s opposition front is obviously using Bersih for his own ends. That he too is a frequent guest at NED functions and entwined with US’s political and corporate elite suggests something far more sinister at work in Malaysia.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/07/globalist-sedition-takes-to-malaysian.html
Wouldn’t expect, however for the “journalists” and “academics” here at New Mandala to actually look into who these people really are and where their money comes from and what their real motives are. Its far more fun to just jump on the “democracy” bandwagon and help exploit the intentions and energy of well meaning people duped by these absolute utter criminals.
For the US’s part, funding foreign political movements is an act of war, for Bersih’s part taking that money is treason. Examining the backgrounds of those lining democracy advocates like NED and Freedom House we see confessed warmongers and corporate-interests involved – their intentions obviously inconsistent with “democracy.”
Thailand’s corruption record
‘Corruption perceptions’ . . . most people usually miss the point relevant Thailand and Thaksin. Corruption Perception Indexes go up or down indefinitely and it is more likely a truism that corruption in Thailand (or any other country) would be an impossibility to eliminate.
The real point is that the ‘corruption perception’ about Thaksin the PM by the Thais and the by the world had been at a phenomenal high . . . before, during and after Thaksin’s rule. Meaning . . . the corruption tag attaches to the person of Thaksin in a rather big (godzilan) way.
Could you say the same about former PM’s Chuan or Abhisit? Nah . . . because these two former Thai PM’s had been honest and near religious about getting ‘personally’ implicated in any corruption period.
Whereas Thaksin had admitted and never denied that yes he and his wife were corrupt.
Democrat dominance in the deep south
[…] that the Democrats would have difficulty holding their five current seats in Thailand’s Deep South, the Democrats instead ran away with nine out of 11 constituent seats. This has led many to ask: […]
BERSIH 2.0 overcomes the police state
To be fair and “non partisan”, the only “real” reason that Bersih needs to be pushed on hard by the rakyat, is to ensure that a “level playing field” is returned to the political game in Malaysia. In all honesty, I don’t really care if BN or Pakatan come into power after the next election. What I, and I believe a lot of Malaysians would like to see is a better quality of elected leadership, and accountability.
Unfortunately being too long at the top, and having a free hand at “gerrymandering” and “misusing” federal institutions, has caused a lot of rot to set in, and allow less than capable (or credible) people to usurp positions of power.
This is what has been the most damaging.
Unfortunately, the only way that this can be fixed is by “making” BN lose a term and know what its like having the shoe on the other foot. As they have had the signs and warnings given to them over the past 10 years quite clearly and despite all the talk…very little has changed…
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
dear diogenes,
you cannot siomply refer malaysia to apartheid.
why dont u look at apartheid it self n how it was created n look to whom it affected…
before that dont simply said it out loud…
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
Malaysia is apartheid like, not quiet the same, in its propagation of imaginary races, the need to social engineer and practice discrimination against minorities to correct Malay inequality and lack of opportunity in the face of ‘superior’ Indian and Chinese abilities and intellects
Democrat dominance in the deep south
Simon, so you think that TRT ordered the killings? So why the Dems & their allies haven’t hang them out to dry yet? This is even more puzzling, since they had total power for yrs.
IMO, the fact that they can’t convict ANY speaks more loudly than any action they can ever take. Either Army was guilty, or TRT can’t be blamed, take your pick.
Remember that in this country, you can throw a PM out of his office for hosting a cooking show. The courts are willing to lend a hand to tie a noose around TRT’s remains. So where’s the case now?
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
Ekram, you must be sleeping or living on the other side of Malaysia with a silver foot in your mouth.. hence your blabber and nonsensical analysis….
we malaysian are well known for being mild mannered.
why must take to the street? <– hoho.. Perkasa's rhetoric are mild mannered? they are downright racists and the cowhead protesters took it to the street too… the only difference is, one is filled with hate and the other asked for a fair and just election.. to be honest, it was suppose to be taken into the stadium.. however some Perkasa supporting UMNO acting PM took renege on his word.. whatever manners I have towards a person, I will still flick my finger to a liar..
"is there really an economic crisis in the country?
does unployment rate is skyrocket high?
does our graduates can’t find a good job?
are people being arrested in the middle of the night and not being seen again?
is there any food crisis?
is there a secret police in the county?" yes yes yes yes yes yes you blind fool…. 1. Middle income trap (go read) 2. Unfair employment based on ethnic proportions yes.. ICA 1975 (go read) 3. I can introduce a UMS finance graduate working as a petrol pump boy because he couldn't utter a proper sentence no THANKS to your quota (NOT meritocracy) entry system into local uni 4. I know a 14 year old boy was being shot / a PM that blows up prostitute and a bunch of FRUs firing into a hospital 5. Inflation (go read what this mean) 6. Your 3rd line of silat clowns claimed by Najib..
"it seem none of the above happen or occurred in our country, but allt he above does existed in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, Syiria" <– it is spelled Syria.. go ahead.. if your son gets a F minus in Mathematics you should be proud because he is the top student in Rwanda primary school… no wonder you are an underachiever because you compare yourself with gutter-like standards…with respect to Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand, SYRIA, their people dare to voice out when they are pissed off as a government… YOU on the other hand think that the people will stay silent because your weak ego wants us to…
we cant go arround and say what ever we want without thinking of the feeling of others or the consequences of what we said or write or do..<– IBRAHIM ALI .. he gets away with it.. Utusan gets away with what they say… but you shall not.. for I am now hounding every single word you say …
"and i believe street protest will bring much hurt than happiness to the people…" To begin with, it is a street rally… PEACEFUL street rally until BN and their so called silat group along with a buffoon called Hishamuddin called in the police / FRUs… and the aftermath as you can see from the videos all around internet..(please get internet, it helps you to learn about others … not always hoping others to tolerate you) .. Regarding street protest bringing harm? Martin Luther just called and with a sad tone he wanted to tell you "Bitch please…"