Islam a religion of peace? zeez, please take a look around you – preferably with eyes opened. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and all Islamic nations (not even almost) fail to demonstrate in the slightest, the proposition of a peaceful religion.
Professor Daniels may have forgotten that the Malaysian Agreement of 1963, establishes in print and in legal binding, that Sabah and Sarawak have no official religion; in fact, the very condition that North Borneo (later Sabah) and Sarawak set for Peninsular Malaya, in order for East Malaysia to even agree to join the federation.
As UMNO, PM Najib, Isma, Perkasa and other Malay fascist organizations insist that the Malaysian Constitution is synonymous with the Malaysian Agreement in 1963 (it is most certainly not), and furthermore even believe that the Malaysian Constitution states that Malaysia is NOT a secular State (it is and the Constitution says it is), legally, UMNO/BN has BROKEN the Malaysia Agreement of 1963, also breaking the Agreement by flooding East Malaysia with Moro and Indonesian Muslims and persecuting Iban Christians, technically, Sabah and Sarawak have a strong legal argument to leave Malaysia, should they so desire. The question of UMNO and fascist Malay NGOs abrogating the 1963 agreement is not even
in question; they dispute that East Malaysia is even secular, let alone non-Muslim. I have spent 40 years in Malaya/Malaysia and I have been to 44 nations. I have yet to see, with the exception of Malaysia, any nation abrogate its own Constitution. If EITHER document is abrogated, all bets are off; Sabah and Sarawak have a legal right to secede. I would think PM Najib would be embarrassed by this disloyalty, and would find some irony in the fact, that the ones who shout the loudest about “Tanah Melayu” and “Ketuanan Melayu” and exhibit (faux) patriotism, are the same ones who break the Malaysian Constitution and the Malaysia Agreement of 1963, the quickest.
My consolation: It could be worse, you could be a Christian Iban in Brunei, and God help you if you snatch a Mango from Bolkiah land, as you will have to order prosthetic hands from eBay (as Jeffrey rides off into the sunset on his devout yachts, “Tits 1, Tits 2 and Tits 3тА│).
It’s debatable whether Prabowo had to marry one of Soeharto’s daughters to find himself within the innermost circle of the old regime. Prabowo’s father, Soemitro Djojohadikusumo, was the only former PRRI rebel whom Soeharto appointed to cabinet posts, and he did that very early in his presidency. Soemitro was the mentor of many of Soeharto’s economic ministers from the time he had been Dean of the Faculty of Economics at the University of Indonesia. By contrast with Prabowo, who remembers what Soeharto’s other sons-in-law became?
The writer seems to ignore all facts about the police structure and the causes made the police force untrustworthy. He seems to record only the rumors against the opponent with “Thai style of Siamese Talk” in holy f. hypocrisy land. Thais always blame everything everyone but himself.
I believe that all Thais would be pleased to see the police force becomes professional one. However, it is in fact most Thais like to obtain any favor from police officer, and will ignore all rules against himself if the police officer can provide such privilege to them. By contrast, they are very angry if the police provide any favor to someone else in the same situation as themselves. The outside factors force the police to survive under the different influence power.
Well, the writer seems to be ignorance about the structures and insufficiency of administrative factors, as well as the legal equipment to win the crime. He also ignored the worst factors deriving from the constitutional organization cutting the hand of police to complete their jobs to maintain the peace and order.
I think if the writer can be clean their brain and wipe out his bias, he might be able to analyze more sophisticated problem of police reform than the present one.
There are more than a few points that make me rather uncomfortable with the article.
At first a few factual issues. During the drug war, all state institutions were involved in drug war killings. While the bulk of the extrajudicial killings may have been committed by police officers (there were different kind of killings though), in border areas military was involved as well. Also many of the intelligence leading up came from military intelligence units as well, who have collaborated with police.
Naturally police were chosen to be the main force in dealing with protesters in 2008. The mentioned crackdown in 2008 did not just involve police using faulty tear gas against protesters, but it also involved PAD protesters firing guns at police officers, wounding several officers ( http://www.newmandala.org/2008/10/11/what-happened-on-7102008/ ).
Also the claims that during the 2010 protests police “did nothing” is factually not right. Yes, the Red Shirt camp was in front of the Police Hospital and the National Police HQ, but so was the 2014 one of Bangkok shutdown camps by the PDRC. In 2010 during several clashes police forces were involved as well, such as during the clash at the National Memorial on April 28, 2010, during which one soldier was killed by fellow soldiers in a friendly fire incident.
The simple narrative of police being Thaksin’s force is also not entirely correct. While the majority of police officers may be pro-Thaksin (but so are many especially low ranked soldiers – look at the 2011 election result in Dusit district), until 2008 the police force was regarding protests still professional. During the 2007 Prem Compound clashes, for example, police battled with UDD protesters for many hours ( http://www.newmandala.org/2008/08/12/revisiting-the-prem-compound-clashes/ ). The change in 2008 took place for several reasons. One was that the police force was continuously hindered in its duty by forces allied with PAD protesters, and another was the huge disappointment over the Nong Bo incident. This incident in particular brought the police over the edge, in terms of politics. The 2013/2014 protests raised frustration under the police force to tremendous levels. Many police officers were badly beaten up by PDRC protesters, in 2 incidents 6 Special Branch officers were even badly tortured for hours by PDRC guards, and 3 officers were killed by PDRC armed militants (Din Daeng and Pan Fa). The courts however continued to declare the PDRC protests as peaceful protests, were, and still are more than sluggish in issuing arrest warrants for suspects in the PDRC.
It is also not entirely correct to state that the police “changed sides” over night after the coup. What has taken place is that almost all top-level officers have been replaced by officers close to Suthep and the soldiers that have supported behind the scene the PDRC protests. They were not chosen because of their level of competence, but because of political affiliation. Many of those officers, especially Somyot, are not trusted and supported by the force. This naturally will lead to further instability in the police force, and not to anything resembling “reform”.
And that is the next issue i am having with the debate, and the tone of the article. While much of the criticism regarding corruption and crime within the police force is true, singling the police force out gives a slanted picture of the problem. Corruption and crime in the military is as prevalent, and so is the military’s involvement in organized crime. All sectors of Thai society are part of this same system.
It is convenient to blame the police force alone for the messy investigations into the Ko Tao murders. But that is again only part of the picture. The other part is that there are other forces involved. Ko Tao, such as many parts in the South are ruled by very powerful organized crime clans who have network connections very far up. Police has to work there in collaboration with those clans in order to be able to work at all there. In almost all rural areas of Thailand there is a very careful balance between local clan interests and their relationship with the state. Police and other state authorities have to carefully navigate this web of vested interests, and naturally are part of these vested interests as well.
One aspect that has been mostly left out in the Ko Tao saga, for example, is that the most powerful clans in Ko Tao are deeply involved in the PDRC, which opens another can of worms. Many of the southern PDRC guards came from such local networks of politics and crime.
And as we know, some parts of the military have quite openly involved in the PDRC, be it the Navy, and many of the guards responsible for VIP security who were active soldiers, often with special forces training.
Singling out the police simple does not even begin to describe the problem.
This junk phrases made the readers waste their times. Exactly, Royal Thai Police has been long criticized of bad reputation since it was founded, not from the Thaksin government. This article is superficially baseless both facts and knowledge, except biased against the police force and favor to the anti-democracy mob.
What makes Indonesia’s direct presidential elections different from the ones in the US where party matters, but ultimately charisma or image trumps a candidate’s standing in the party?
The exponential increase in Islamic stridency, vituperative racism, rampant corruption, a broken UMNO government, an effete opposition, continued baseless sedition charges, perpetual persecution of
Kassim Ahmad, absurd and nonsensical rulings by State Mufti, conceit among the royalty due to newfound responsibilities which amount to little, aggressive behavior by supranationalist Malay groups like Isma and Perkasa, and last but not least, doltish Islamic arguments over whether Malays should touch dogs, all lead to the obvious conclusion that Malaysia is not the “Sick Man of Asia”, merely the “Monty Python of Asia”.
It is a standard principle of physiology that as the head gets bigger, the brain requires more oxygen, and therefore, the
lungs have to work overtime, resulting in
a collapsed lung. However, if the head (and therefore, the brain) remains a normal size, the lungs need not work overtime, and the
risk of a collapsed lung is far less.
A biological lesson that Jokowi may want to learn early on in his tenure as President of Indonesia.
These “elitist Thais” are mostly hypocrites. Thailand seems to be under the “Rule of Double-Standards and Sino-Orwellian Double-Speak”, based on corruption, nepotism, patronage and guanxi (connections) and blatant discrimination (against poor migrant workers for example). Unfortunately, Thailand is not an exception in Southeast Asia. Democracy, human rights, protection of the environment, rule of law, etc. are deemed to be purely Western academic concepts that are not applicable to “Realpolitik in the Thai context” apparently.
Yep. But of course elitist Thais don’t see anything wrong in what they do. It’s business as usual, and that won’t change until they have had their fill at the trough and graciously step aside for “democracy,” and /or succession matters are resolved to their satisfaction.
Thank you Nicholas for referring to our conference.
You still have time to register and come to Melbourne this Thursday and Friday. This is where you can register for the Thai Studies conference in Melbourne http://www.rmit.edu.au/bus/tabs2014
And just to finish.
When I post on my facebook profile a picture of tea plantation around the Kerinci mountain in Indonesia to alarm my friends about the deforestation my western friens are sad, my asiatics friends thinks it’s a nice plantation and mist bring a lot of the money to the owner.
Different mentality.
I try to speak about ECOtourism Yala province, the first reaction from my Tha├п friends was: “- Why do you want to make cheap tourism, Hy economy tourism ?”
It’s not just arrest people cut tree will stop that but a big campaign of sensibilisation to bring a ECOlogycal conscience in the mind of people in Asia.
Facebook 
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Islam, a religion of peace
Islam a religion of peace? zeez, please take a look around you – preferably with eyes opened. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and all Islamic nations (not even almost) fail to demonstrate in the slightest, the proposition of a peaceful religion.
The perils of popularity
Hoodlums…..
Islam, a religion of peace
Mata Lansik II,
Professor Daniels may have forgotten that the Malaysian Agreement of 1963, establishes in print and in legal binding, that Sabah and Sarawak have no official religion; in fact, the very condition that North Borneo (later Sabah) and Sarawak set for Peninsular Malaya, in order for East Malaysia to even agree to join the federation.
As UMNO, PM Najib, Isma, Perkasa and other Malay fascist organizations insist that the Malaysian Constitution is synonymous with the Malaysian Agreement in 1963 (it is most certainly not), and furthermore even believe that the Malaysian Constitution states that Malaysia is NOT a secular State (it is and the Constitution says it is), legally, UMNO/BN has BROKEN the Malaysia Agreement of 1963, also breaking the Agreement by flooding East Malaysia with Moro and Indonesian Muslims and persecuting Iban Christians, technically, Sabah and Sarawak have a strong legal argument to leave Malaysia, should they so desire. The question of UMNO and fascist Malay NGOs abrogating the 1963 agreement is not even
in question; they dispute that East Malaysia is even secular, let alone non-Muslim. I have spent 40 years in Malaya/Malaysia and I have been to 44 nations. I have yet to see, with the exception of Malaysia, any nation abrogate its own Constitution. If EITHER document is abrogated, all bets are off; Sabah and Sarawak have a legal right to secede. I would think PM Najib would be embarrassed by this disloyalty, and would find some irony in the fact, that the ones who shout the loudest about “Tanah Melayu” and “Ketuanan Melayu” and exhibit (faux) patriotism, are the same ones who break the Malaysian Constitution and the Malaysia Agreement of 1963, the quickest.
My consolation: It could be worse, you could be a Christian Iban in Brunei, and God help you if you snatch a Mango from Bolkiah land, as you will have to order prosthetic hands from eBay (as Jeffrey rides off into the sunset on his devout yachts, “Tits 1, Tits 2 and Tits 3тА│).
Islam, a religion of peace
As a Christain living in the currently secular State of Sarawak, Federation of Malaysia, it plain to see and experience what Islam really is. It is certainly not what Timothy P. Daniels is trying to argue and apologise for. The creeping Islamisation is only at the early stage and that is bad enough already (see – http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/for-bumiputera-christians-allah-ban-akin-to-cultural-genocide-says-archbish)
Some apologists are completely out of touch with reality (of what Islam is).
The perils of popularity
It’s debatable whether Prabowo had to marry one of Soeharto’s daughters to find himself within the innermost circle of the old regime. Prabowo’s father, Soemitro Djojohadikusumo, was the only former PRRI rebel whom Soeharto appointed to cabinet posts, and he did that very early in his presidency. Soemitro was the mentor of many of Soeharto’s economic ministers from the time he had been Dean of the Faculty of Economics at the University of Indonesia. By contrast with Prabowo, who remembers what Soeharto’s other sons-in-law became?
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
The writer seems to ignore all facts about the police structure and the causes made the police force untrustworthy. He seems to record only the rumors against the opponent with “Thai style of Siamese Talk” in holy f. hypocrisy land. Thais always blame everything everyone but himself.
I believe that all Thais would be pleased to see the police force becomes professional one. However, it is in fact most Thais like to obtain any favor from police officer, and will ignore all rules against himself if the police officer can provide such privilege to them. By contrast, they are very angry if the police provide any favor to someone else in the same situation as themselves. The outside factors force the police to survive under the different influence power.
Well, the writer seems to be ignorance about the structures and insufficiency of administrative factors, as well as the legal equipment to win the crime. He also ignored the worst factors deriving from the constitutional organization cutting the hand of police to complete their jobs to maintain the peace and order.
I think if the writer can be clean their brain and wipe out his bias, he might be able to analyze more sophisticated problem of police reform than the present one.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
There are more than a few points that make me rather uncomfortable with the article.
At first a few factual issues. During the drug war, all state institutions were involved in drug war killings. While the bulk of the extrajudicial killings may have been committed by police officers (there were different kind of killings though), in border areas military was involved as well. Also many of the intelligence leading up came from military intelligence units as well, who have collaborated with police.
Naturally police were chosen to be the main force in dealing with protesters in 2008. The mentioned crackdown in 2008 did not just involve police using faulty tear gas against protesters, but it also involved PAD protesters firing guns at police officers, wounding several officers ( http://www.newmandala.org/2008/10/11/what-happened-on-7102008/ ).
Also the claims that during the 2010 protests police “did nothing” is factually not right. Yes, the Red Shirt camp was in front of the Police Hospital and the National Police HQ, but so was the 2014 one of Bangkok shutdown camps by the PDRC. In 2010 during several clashes police forces were involved as well, such as during the clash at the National Memorial on April 28, 2010, during which one soldier was killed by fellow soldiers in a friendly fire incident.
The simple narrative of police being Thaksin’s force is also not entirely correct. While the majority of police officers may be pro-Thaksin (but so are many especially low ranked soldiers – look at the 2011 election result in Dusit district), until 2008 the police force was regarding protests still professional. During the 2007 Prem Compound clashes, for example, police battled with UDD protesters for many hours ( http://www.newmandala.org/2008/08/12/revisiting-the-prem-compound-clashes/ ). The change in 2008 took place for several reasons. One was that the police force was continuously hindered in its duty by forces allied with PAD protesters, and another was the huge disappointment over the Nong Bo incident. This incident in particular brought the police over the edge, in terms of politics. The 2013/2014 protests raised frustration under the police force to tremendous levels. Many police officers were badly beaten up by PDRC protesters, in 2 incidents 6 Special Branch officers were even badly tortured for hours by PDRC guards, and 3 officers were killed by PDRC armed militants (Din Daeng and Pan Fa). The courts however continued to declare the PDRC protests as peaceful protests, were, and still are more than sluggish in issuing arrest warrants for suspects in the PDRC.
It is also not entirely correct to state that the police “changed sides” over night after the coup. What has taken place is that almost all top-level officers have been replaced by officers close to Suthep and the soldiers that have supported behind the scene the PDRC protests. They were not chosen because of their level of competence, but because of political affiliation. Many of those officers, especially Somyot, are not trusted and supported by the force. This naturally will lead to further instability in the police force, and not to anything resembling “reform”.
And that is the next issue i am having with the debate, and the tone of the article. While much of the criticism regarding corruption and crime within the police force is true, singling the police force out gives a slanted picture of the problem. Corruption and crime in the military is as prevalent, and so is the military’s involvement in organized crime. All sectors of Thai society are part of this same system.
It is convenient to blame the police force alone for the messy investigations into the Ko Tao murders. But that is again only part of the picture. The other part is that there are other forces involved. Ko Tao, such as many parts in the South are ruled by very powerful organized crime clans who have network connections very far up. Police has to work there in collaboration with those clans in order to be able to work at all there. In almost all rural areas of Thailand there is a very careful balance between local clan interests and their relationship with the state. Police and other state authorities have to carefully navigate this web of vested interests, and naturally are part of these vested interests as well.
One aspect that has been mostly left out in the Ko Tao saga, for example, is that the most powerful clans in Ko Tao are deeply involved in the PDRC, which opens another can of worms. Many of the southern PDRC guards came from such local networks of politics and crime.
And as we know, some parts of the military have quite openly involved in the PDRC, be it the Navy, and many of the guards responsible for VIP security who were active soldiers, often with special forces training.
Singling out the police simple does not even begin to describe the problem.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
This junk phrases made the readers waste their times. Exactly, Royal Thai Police has been long criticized of bad reputation since it was founded, not from the Thaksin government. This article is superficially baseless both facts and knowledge, except biased against the police force and favor to the anti-democracy mob.
The perils of popularity
I would ask,
What makes Indonesia’s direct presidential elections different from the ones in the US where party matters, but ultimately charisma or image trumps a candidate’s standing in the party?
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
New York Times on the Koh Tao murders: “This is not an Agatha Christie case – it’s a case that modern policing should be able to handle”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/world/asia/hearings-open-into-killings-of-two-british-tourists-on-thai-island.html
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
“Not saving Thailand’s face: the backlash of police corruption in tourist murders”
http://asiancorrespondent.com/127509/not-saving-thailands-face-the-backlash-of-police-corruption-in-the-murders-of-tourists/
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
Are you saying the problem lies very deep in Thai society and the way Thailand is governed, since forever. It’s not about Red or Yellow or whatever.
In conversation with Rafizi Ramli
The exponential increase in Islamic stridency, vituperative racism, rampant corruption, a broken UMNO government, an effete opposition, continued baseless sedition charges, perpetual persecution of
Kassim Ahmad, absurd and nonsensical rulings by State Mufti, conceit among the royalty due to newfound responsibilities which amount to little, aggressive behavior by supranationalist Malay groups like Isma and Perkasa, and last but not least, doltish Islamic arguments over whether Malays should touch dogs, all lead to the obvious conclusion that Malaysia is not the “Sick Man of Asia”, merely the “Monty Python of Asia”.
The perils of popularity
“Joko Widodo may be a breath of fresh air”.
It is a standard principle of physiology that as the head gets bigger, the brain requires more oxygen, and therefore, the
lungs have to work overtime, resulting in
a collapsed lung. However, if the head (and therefore, the brain) remains a normal size, the lungs need not work overtime, and the
risk of a collapsed lung is far less.
A biological lesson that Jokowi may want to learn early on in his tenure as President of Indonesia.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
This was already official under Yingluck and most likely way longer.
BBC: “Forced to fish”January 23, 2014
BBC: Burmese refugees sold by Thai officials” January 21, 2013
just to name a few.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
These “elitist Thais” are mostly hypocrites. Thailand seems to be under the “Rule of Double-Standards and Sino-Orwellian Double-Speak”, based on corruption, nepotism, patronage and guanxi (connections) and blatant discrimination (against poor migrant workers for example). Unfortunately, Thailand is not an exception in Southeast Asia. Democracy, human rights, protection of the environment, rule of law, etc. are deemed to be purely Western academic concepts that are not applicable to “Realpolitik in the Thai context” apparently.
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
Yep. But of course elitist Thais don’t see anything wrong in what they do. It’s business as usual, and that won’t change until they have had their fill at the trough and graciously step aside for “democracy,” and /or succession matters are resolved to their satisfaction.
Thai Studies in Australia, redux
Thank you Nicholas for referring to our conference.
You still have time to register and come to Melbourne this Thursday and Friday. This is where you can register for the Thai Studies conference in Melbourne http://www.rmit.edu.au/bus/tabs2014
Thai Police: Intent to reform?
It’s official– the Prayut military-mafia regime is now a certified rogue state.
BBC: “Bangladeshi slaves rescued from jungle in Thailand”
October 18, 2014
Dozens of Bangladeshis have been rescued after being abducted and shipped to Thailand to be sold as slaves.
Forest evictions under Prayuth?
And just to finish.
When I post on my facebook profile a picture of tea plantation around the Kerinci mountain in Indonesia to alarm my friends about the deforestation my western friens are sad, my asiatics friends thinks it’s a nice plantation and mist bring a lot of the money to the owner.
Different mentality.
I try to speak about ECOtourism Yala province, the first reaction from my Tha├п friends was: “- Why do you want to make cheap tourism, Hy economy tourism ?”
It’s not just arrest people cut tree will stop that but a big campaign of sensibilisation to bring a ECOlogycal conscience in the mind of people in Asia.