Thaksin Shinawatra & family
Net Worth $1.7 B As of July 2013
Follow (11)
At a Glance
Age: 64
Source of Wealth: investments, self-made
Residence: Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Forbes Lists
#10 Thailand’s 50 Richest
#23 in 2012
#882 Billionaires
#6 in Thailand
Profile
Controversial former prime minister … Thaksin Shinawatra disclosed to FORBES in October that Thai authorities had returned to him close to $1 billion of his $2.3 billion in frozen assets. His family also owns a controlling stake of SC Asset, a real estate development firm that Yingluck used to run.
But …..
it will be nearly impossible to trace all of Thaksin’s wealth … bulk of which I suspect are from dubious and downright ill-gotten sources while he was Prime Minister, and, currently while de-facto Thai Prime Minister calling the shots (not the puppet sister Yingluck). His off-shore accounts must be here, there and everywhere and they would all be very very substantial. (As part of any constitutional reform, a law should be passed to criminalize undeclared offshore bank account(s) by elected public officials).
That fascinating exchange between Boon and Andrew MacGregor Marshall should give us pause about the corruptive reach of Thaksin.
(1) How long had Thaksin Shinawatra been dipping his kleptomanic hands at the National Lottery? A man this brilliantly criminal would have started early once he got that Deputy Police General (and many other abettors) to partake with that rewarding enterprise. For all we know that National Lottery enterprise had already been restarted, considering Thaksin’s many many very high ranking Police General friends, and his loyal mutt Police Captain Yubamrung who is the just type to want his cut too. And maybe because the CP could no longer be enticed with Lottery gifts, the whole Thaksin Police gang, with Yingluck looking the other way, will only gleefully be dividing the skimmed lottery loot to be divided among themselves, after Thaksin’s huge really huge cut (A Yubamrung son as bagman perhaps as quick learning trainee?)
(2) On that particular enterprise alone, The National Lottery scandal (thanks to Mr. Andrew MacGregor Marshall for his highlights), there will be an ‘unknown’ quantity of which certainly ended up in Thaksin’s off-shore bank accounts. It would really be a Thaksin ‘honest mistake’ if Thaksin had been gifting all of the National Lottery, without any Potjaman cuts, to the CP.
(3) And there were/are many many more such Thaksin tax-free capers, you betcha!
btw Andrew Walker I forgot to mention … could above described Thaksinomics be helping or stealing from the Thai poor.
[…] but also gives the government a handy excuse down the road to roll back its reforms. Fortunately, voices of moderation and tolerance have emerged to counteract some of the more inflammatory claims that have appeared on the […]
[…] recent post at New Mandala asks how bad is Thaksinomics, the suite of policies associated with Thailand’s former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra […]
I think the article is well written, but too one-sided.
Please consider following questions:
What is Thaksin’s true agenda?
What makes Thaksin dangerous…hints: Carlos Slim…Silvio Berlusconi…Ferdinand Marcos…Mohammed Suharto…Benito Mussolini…the list goes on. – You wrote about power…without a strong opposition against Thaksin, we would very likely experience a similar leader in Thailand some years ahead…we never seem to learn.
What is Yingluck’s true agenda? NEVER worked in politics until Thaksin asked her to.
Lastly, a simple last statement for discussion: if Thaksin would be convicted “officially” for corruption, would’nt that send a strong message to other corrupt people to watch out and potentially minimizing the overall corruption in Thailand and maybe…just maybe give the country a little nudge un the right direction?
Can anyone disagree with the above? And please dont come with boring comment saying he is not involved and Yingluck was fairly elected and that Thaksin help the poor..
” .. As for Monarchy: some love the romance of the institution,others dislike the innate social inequality implied ..” Nomi
I appreciate it, I like it and I thank you for responding K. Nomi.
Your bite about ” … dislike the innate social inequality implied … ” I suspect may be a sentiment strongly shared by many many Thais but could not be expressed … and that breeds resentment towards the Thai monarchy, irrespective of how fair or how well-meaning the institution.
Lese majeste represses period. And for as long as this anachronistic law remains, with its arbitrary and rather harsh punishing penalties, whatever favorable legacy of reverence of the institution of monarchy resulting from the long beloved reign of HMK Bhumibhol could so quickly be undone after he is gone.
That word “ilk’ was improper, wasn’t it? I suspected as such, while typing my comments, but am not usually in the habit of editing, so added the parenthetical semi-apology of sort.
Too bad you could not elaborate on the matter of the ‘Thaksin blind adoration’, and personally it is disturbing. Even giving credit to ‘charisma’ and Thaksin’s very successful marketing of his ‘image’ to the Northeastern region, I would have thought that by this time the Isans would have wearied of, and seen through, the very dangerous Thasin artifice.
But I am heartened K. Nomi there are people like you (I have an older cousin who is a devoted Red too, but that is beside the point) WITH the Red camp. Sincerely I am.
Vichai:
I cannot honestly answer your questions because I do not have any ‘blind adoration’ for, nor do I have obsessive hatred of, Thaksin. I simply do not know.
All I can think of is something Chris Rock said: Last I check, there is the word ‘crazy’ in the dictionary.
There are extreme people on all sides, and constant exposure to them is bad for one’s mental and emotional well-being. That is why I do not listen to people like Suthep or Arisman. Yet I do not ignore them for they are dangerous. I only wish I can ignore family as easily.
As for Monarchy: some love the romance of the institution,others dislike the innate social inequality implied. That is personal choice and preference.
I can confidently say: most people love the idea of Royalty,respect the crown, and would support the preservation of the institution of royalty- within acceptable cost.
Kings and queens in person, however, are merely people. Outside the respect conferred by the titles, they must earn their own respect.
I have only met one person who is embittered by the Thai monarchy, and that was because his child died as roads were blockaded for royal transport to non-official events.
Finally, I think the Isaan would not like being referred to as of ‘isan ilk’. And yes, I am of Bangkok ‘ilk’. Born, bred, and Thammasat grad.
Since you asked for my suggestions on how to improve your communication skills:
Firstly, I’m pleased to see you have made the important first step in seeking advice and I think you nailed one of your biggest communication problems already in your post.
It is indeed your self proclaimed habit of regurgitating shallow, totally one sided soundbites from the political stage without pause or in depth analysis which (partly) leads you to spit out silly, insulting and childish things like repeatedly referring to the majority of the Thai populace or anyone else with differing political views to your own as animals. So I suggest consulting many sources of information from all sides and try to reach a balanced (not totally one sided) frame of mind before discussing politics with others.
Looking a little deeper into your communication problem, you might consider that resorting to name calling is a common playground defense strategy used by children who are intellectually outgunned by their peers and can’t come up with an adequate response to counter the charges leveled against them. Grown ups typically move on to more advanced strategies. Therefore, I suggest educating yourself on a wider range of issues on both sides of the political equation so that you can come up with adequate responses instead of resorting to insults out of frustration.
However what is most insightful about your last post is your fascinating attempt to deflect the animal insults that arose from your self proclaimed ‘soft mind’ onto the red shirt stage!!!
That Khun Vichai is your proverbial lead parachute. You see, Blaming everything in the universe from bad weather to your inability to hold an adult standard political discussion on mr Thaksin and the red shirts only serves to discredit any valid points you might have otherwise made.
So I suggest trying to educate yourself on the good the bad and the ugly on all sides of politics in Thailand. You will soon realize that Thai politics are dirty from top to bottom, east to west, from red to yellow. Once you come to accept this, blaming your poor political debating skills and every other problem in Thailand on Thaksin and the red shirts will no longer seem plausible.
I hope that helps Kuhn Vichai because I’m the first to concede that Thaksins meddling and greed is indeed a major threat to the future of Thailand (although in my opinion certainly not the only threat and currently not the biggest).
That’s why I applaud those who point out his shortcomings and dirty dealings to the public in a well researched, intelligent and constructive manner. If that’s what you were doing Khun Vichai, I would be supporting your posts and not advising you on how to discuss politics.
boon you are absolutely right. How shocking that a corrupt prime minister gave lavish gifts to the Thai royals. Thank goodness the Thaksin-Vajirakongkorn episode was an isolated case and such a thing has never happened before. Upstanding leaders like Sarit Thanarat and Bhumibol Adulyadej would never have engaged in such nefarious activity. Long live the king!
Three aspects concerning your 3. question:
1. A psychological issue: Especially in Bangkok we find a combination of a highly hierarchical social order based on moral demands combined with atomization (see the recent paper by Nidhi) and extreme hypocrisy. In other words, communication tends to be highly contradictory, or what Bateson discusses as “double bind”. This leads to continuous anxiety. One way to cope with it is to create “total institutions” (Goffman) for oneselves. For those who are entangled in the double binds, especially Bangkok has become something like such a “total institution” where a moral order of Thainess is constructed to exclude external influences (except consumer goods) that might enhance further confusion, and to gain security in a mass/crowd (Canetti). In short, the dramaturgical actions and rituals on the streets of Bangkok by the leaders and masses indicate forms of social and political neurosis, or, to use Canetti again, it is a form of “Umkehrung und Entladung”.
2. A communicative issue: There is little space and hardly any “frames” (Goffman) for political discourse. Political issues are personalized, transformed into moral, cultural issues (Thainess etc.) or forms of beliefs in sacredness (I don’t want to elaborate on this). Personalization, ritualization and especially sacralisation are emotional and difficult to put into a frame of rational discourse. Here Cassirer (Myth of the State) is quite interesting.
3. A sociological issue: Why is there no political discourse? Because political decisions are made by groups and classes outside political institutions. The state institutions and organisations (including parties) are thus not political constructs with a function for society, but regarded as more or less personal fiefdoms to realize personal or group interests.
There are certainly many more aspects. Perhaps I reflect on these in a longer paper.
I think your figure is a bit high, I think it’s closer to 40-50 %. More than 25 % of Malays speak some English, and at least 15 % are nearly or fully fluent. You exaggerate a bit out of emotion. Nobody is claiming PM Najib or UMNO or PAS or JAIS or Perkasa aren’t favouring Malays or even, in the case of JAIS and Perkasa, Islamic and racial bigots, respectively. It is not only Christians who are losers in UMNO/BN’s ongoing attempt to divide Malaysians for political purposes, Malays themselves are victims of these political and religious machinations, as it only increases the ethnic and cultural cleavages in Malaysian society.
Malaysia may not be as moderate as it should, and could be, there is no doubt, but the failure of the opposition parties to effectively counter UMNO, and the (as I have pointed out to Greg) weakness of the non-elite groups in providing alternatives in national leadership, facilitates UMNO/BN and Perkasa to get away with such discriminatory practices in Malaysia. Increasing Islamisation throughout the Islamic World is also catalysing more fervent Islamic practices among Malaysian Muslims, as well as
more dogmatic and nationalistic actions by groups like JAIS and Perkasa, who only give Islam ‘a bad name,’ in the end.
And as bad as Malaysia may seem, it is far worse in the Middle-East, and in South and Central Asia, among Islamic nations.
First Andrew MacGregor Marshall thanked me very much (23.2.2).
But when pressed to expand on two disturbing Marshall ‘comments’ that so obviously contradicted Marshall’s own very long story “Thailand’s Moment of Truth” (Part I)
Andrew MacGregor Marshall gets oddly huffy and says: ” …I’m not going to respond to your … ignorant questions and comments here when you can’t even be bothered to read my article.”
I am baffled and I am amused. And yes frankly I only scanned Part I of the Marshall story: The Moment of Truth. But even by merely scanning, I could already sniff out Marshall’s sneaky ‘commentating’ style. And Marshall expects me to read the whole four-part story … amazing! Almost as amazing as Thaksin demanding a royal pardon …
Let me just be allowed to point out that the Thaksin Shinawatra criminal National Lottery skimming enterprise, while he was Thai Prime Minister, was Thaksin at his toxic best form. With full malice aforethought Thaksin deliberately entanglied the Crown Prince via millions of Baht of ‘gifts’ to the Prince, skimmed and I suspect bagged and delivered ‘fresh’, with the then Deputy Police Chief Chumphol (outrageous!) as bagman. (Wikileaks source by Marshall)
Why shouldn’t the Thai monarchy be outraged? Why shouldn’t the whole of Thailand be incensed to a boil by such Thaksin corruptive conduct, while he was Thai Prime Minister?
Lest the Thaksin symphatizers still could not grasp the enormity of this particular Thaksin crime … imagine it was the British Crown Prince Charles who had been seduced to accept the money ‘gifts’ by a British Prime Minister who skimmed the money ‘gifts’ from U.K.’s National Lottery.
(Boon hectoring Andrew MacGregor Marshall? Why Mr. Marshall should feel he is being bullied by Boon, I am amazed.)
I don’t understand that. According to the figures used by the Court to justify their ruling that Thaksin had acquired “unusual wealth” as Prime Minister, they initially froze some 73 billion baht, being the proceeds of his sale of shares to Temasek, but then confiscated some 46 billion baht on the basis that that represented the increase in value due to “policy corruption” from the day on which he became PM. That suggests to me that his family’s total holding in Shincorp alone was some 27 billion in 2001. How do you get 15.1 billion?
Moderate Islam? Malaysian Govt?
Have you been following the news or events in Malaysia? I know Najib pays good money to Western Consultants, but pleeaase, do not insult the Malaysians who actually can read and are reading NM.
1. The word “ALLAH” belongs to Muslims in Malaysia. Any one else caught using it (in publications, or public statements) cab be persecuted.. oops I mean prosecuted
2. Jais (Govt Islamic body) raided a bible society and confiscated 300 malay language bibles, because they contained the word “ALLAH” (Just in case you are ignorant.. 75% of Muslims in Malaysia speaks only Malay
3. Govt Islamic bodies warned churches not to say “ALLAH” in their Malay language sermons or they will organise protest at every church in Malaysia to stop them.
4. List goes on and on…
Meanwhile the Federal Govt and the great moderate Najib kept silent and no saber rattling Islamist were reprimanded. Christians however were told to just suck it up! Is that your idea of moderate as well?
Oh! forgot to mention the threat to burn down churches as well.
My Red Shirt friend at the local market agree that everyone is entitled to voice their own opinion. She prefer an election before reform, while I am of the opposite view. Neither of us claims to be unshakably sure of our views: He bottom line is the vote, while mine is look at one of the likely consequences i.e. a Marcos/Suharto style ‘kleptocracy’ that elections could not remove. So while my friend and I disagree, we both want what is best for the country and we sure aren’t as naive as some of the posters here seem to be – Khun Vichai excepted.
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How bad is Thaksinomics?
K. Nomi I am not sure this Forbes data helps or add to the mystery of the Thaksin billions:
http://www.forbes.com/profile/thaksin-shinawatra/
Thaksin Shinawatra & family
Net Worth $1.7 B As of July 2013
Follow (11)
At a Glance
Age: 64
Source of Wealth: investments, self-made
Residence: Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Forbes Lists
#10 Thailand’s 50 Richest
#23 in 2012
#882 Billionaires
#6 in Thailand
Profile
Controversial former prime minister … Thaksin Shinawatra disclosed to FORBES in October that Thai authorities had returned to him close to $1 billion of his $2.3 billion in frozen assets. His family also owns a controlling stake of SC Asset, a real estate development firm that Yingluck used to run.
But …..
it will be nearly impossible to trace all of Thaksin’s wealth … bulk of which I suspect are from dubious and downright ill-gotten sources while he was Prime Minister, and, currently while de-facto Thai Prime Minister calling the shots (not the puppet sister Yingluck). His off-shore accounts must be here, there and everywhere and they would all be very very substantial. (As part of any constitutional reform, a law should be passed to criminalize undeclared offshore bank account(s) by elected public officials).
That fascinating exchange between Boon and Andrew MacGregor Marshall should give us pause about the corruptive reach of Thaksin.
(http://www.newmandala.org/2013/12/16/how-to-understand-thailands-conflict/)
(1) How long had Thaksin Shinawatra been dipping his kleptomanic hands at the National Lottery? A man this brilliantly criminal would have started early once he got that Deputy Police General (and many other abettors) to partake with that rewarding enterprise. For all we know that National Lottery enterprise had already been restarted, considering Thaksin’s many many very high ranking Police General friends, and his loyal mutt Police Captain Yubamrung who is the just type to want his cut too. And maybe because the CP could no longer be enticed with Lottery gifts, the whole Thaksin Police gang, with Yingluck looking the other way, will only gleefully be dividing the skimmed lottery loot to be divided among themselves, after Thaksin’s huge really huge cut (A Yubamrung son as bagman perhaps as quick learning trainee?)
(2) On that particular enterprise alone, The National Lottery scandal (thanks to Mr. Andrew MacGregor Marshall for his highlights), there will be an ‘unknown’ quantity of which certainly ended up in Thaksin’s off-shore bank accounts. It would really be a Thaksin ‘honest mistake’ if Thaksin had been gifting all of the National Lottery, without any Potjaman cuts, to the CP.
(3) And there were/are many many more such Thaksin tax-free capers, you betcha!
btw Andrew Walker I forgot to mention … could above described Thaksinomics be helping or stealing from the Thai poor.
Voices of moderation on Burmese Facebook
[…] but also gives the government a handy excuse down the road to roll back its reforms. Fortunately, voices of moderation and tolerance have emerged to counteract some of the more inflammatory claims that have appeared on the […]
How bad is Thaksinomics?
[…] recent post at New Mandala asks how bad is Thaksinomics, the suite of policies associated with Thailand’s former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra […]
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
I think the article is well written, but too one-sided.
Please consider following questions:
What is Thaksin’s true agenda?
What makes Thaksin dangerous…hints: Carlos Slim…Silvio Berlusconi…Ferdinand Marcos…Mohammed Suharto…Benito Mussolini…the list goes on. – You wrote about power…without a strong opposition against Thaksin, we would very likely experience a similar leader in Thailand some years ahead…we never seem to learn.
What is Yingluck’s true agenda? NEVER worked in politics until Thaksin asked her to.
Lastly, a simple last statement for discussion: if Thaksin would be convicted “officially” for corruption, would’nt that send a strong message to other corrupt people to watch out and potentially minimizing the overall corruption in Thailand and maybe…just maybe give the country a little nudge un the right direction?
Can anyone disagree with the above? And please dont come with boring comment saying he is not involved and Yingluck was fairly elected and that Thaksin help the poor..
Moving away from the consociational model
In my opinion, consociationalism has never worked anywhere, and rule by an elite is not democracy.
Another big weekend for Thailand
” .. As for Monarchy: some love the romance of the institution,others dislike the innate social inequality implied ..” Nomi
I appreciate it, I like it and I thank you for responding K. Nomi.
Your bite about ” … dislike the innate social inequality implied … ” I suspect may be a sentiment strongly shared by many many Thais but could not be expressed … and that breeds resentment towards the Thai monarchy, irrespective of how fair or how well-meaning the institution.
Lese majeste represses period. And for as long as this anachronistic law remains, with its arbitrary and rather harsh punishing penalties, whatever favorable legacy of reverence of the institution of monarchy resulting from the long beloved reign of HMK Bhumibhol could so quickly be undone after he is gone.
That word “ilk’ was improper, wasn’t it? I suspected as such, while typing my comments, but am not usually in the habit of editing, so added the parenthetical semi-apology of sort.
Too bad you could not elaborate on the matter of the ‘Thaksin blind adoration’, and personally it is disturbing. Even giving credit to ‘charisma’ and Thaksin’s very successful marketing of his ‘image’ to the Northeastern region, I would have thought that by this time the Isans would have wearied of, and seen through, the very dangerous Thasin artifice.
But I am heartened K. Nomi there are people like you (I have an older cousin who is a devoted Red too, but that is beside the point) WITH the Red camp. Sincerely I am.
Storming the DSI building
Try reading Bangkok Pundit on this event and then come back with facts before demanding them of others.
Another big weekend for Thailand
Vichai:
I cannot honestly answer your questions because I do not have any ‘blind adoration’ for, nor do I have obsessive hatred of, Thaksin. I simply do not know.
All I can think of is something Chris Rock said: Last I check, there is the word ‘crazy’ in the dictionary.
There are extreme people on all sides, and constant exposure to them is bad for one’s mental and emotional well-being. That is why I do not listen to people like Suthep or Arisman. Yet I do not ignore them for they are dangerous. I only wish I can ignore family as easily.
As for Monarchy: some love the romance of the institution,others dislike the innate social inequality implied. That is personal choice and preference.
I can confidently say: most people love the idea of Royalty,respect the crown, and would support the preservation of the institution of royalty- within acceptable cost.
Kings and queens in person, however, are merely people. Outside the respect conferred by the titles, they must earn their own respect.
I have only met one person who is embittered by the Thai monarchy, and that was because his child died as roads were blockaded for royal transport to non-official events.
Finally, I think the Isaan would not like being referred to as of ‘isan ilk’. And yes, I am of Bangkok ‘ilk’. Born, bred, and Thammasat grad.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Thanks Andrew.
How bad is Thaksinomics?
very interesting comments, HRk. I’d like to see a longer post on them
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Thanks Chris and Skeptic.
The numbers I posted are from Harold’s post.
Always found it difficult to figure out numbers being bandied about re This corruption case.
If 76 bn is value of Temasek shares, then it cant be Shinawatr family wealth. Thanks for clarification.
Review of Modern Thai Buddhism and Buddhadasa
[…] Review of Modern Thai Buddhism and Buddhadasa […]
Another big weekend for Thailand
Khun Vichai,
Since you asked for my suggestions on how to improve your communication skills:
Firstly, I’m pleased to see you have made the important first step in seeking advice and I think you nailed one of your biggest communication problems already in your post.
It is indeed your self proclaimed habit of regurgitating shallow, totally one sided soundbites from the political stage without pause or in depth analysis which (partly) leads you to spit out silly, insulting and childish things like repeatedly referring to the majority of the Thai populace or anyone else with differing political views to your own as animals. So I suggest consulting many sources of information from all sides and try to reach a balanced (not totally one sided) frame of mind before discussing politics with others.
Looking a little deeper into your communication problem, you might consider that resorting to name calling is a common playground defense strategy used by children who are intellectually outgunned by their peers and can’t come up with an adequate response to counter the charges leveled against them. Grown ups typically move on to more advanced strategies. Therefore, I suggest educating yourself on a wider range of issues on both sides of the political equation so that you can come up with adequate responses instead of resorting to insults out of frustration.
However what is most insightful about your last post is your fascinating attempt to deflect the animal insults that arose from your self proclaimed ‘soft mind’ onto the red shirt stage!!!
That Khun Vichai is your proverbial lead parachute. You see, Blaming everything in the universe from bad weather to your inability to hold an adult standard political discussion on mr Thaksin and the red shirts only serves to discredit any valid points you might have otherwise made.
So I suggest trying to educate yourself on the good the bad and the ugly on all sides of politics in Thailand. You will soon realize that Thai politics are dirty from top to bottom, east to west, from red to yellow. Once you come to accept this, blaming your poor political debating skills and every other problem in Thailand on Thaksin and the red shirts will no longer seem plausible.
I hope that helps Kuhn Vichai because I’m the first to concede that Thaksins meddling and greed is indeed a major threat to the future of Thailand (although in my opinion certainly not the only threat and currently not the biggest).
That’s why I applaud those who point out his shortcomings and dirty dealings to the public in a well researched, intelligent and constructive manner. If that’s what you were doing Khun Vichai, I would be supporting your posts and not advising you on how to discuss politics.
Sincerely Yours,
Jaidee
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
boon you are absolutely right. How shocking that a corrupt prime minister gave lavish gifts to the Thai royals. Thank goodness the Thaksin-Vajirakongkorn episode was an isolated case and such a thing has never happened before. Upstanding leaders like Sarit Thanarat and Bhumibol Adulyadej would never have engaged in such nefarious activity. Long live the king!
How bad is Thaksinomics?
Three aspects concerning your 3. question:
1. A psychological issue: Especially in Bangkok we find a combination of a highly hierarchical social order based on moral demands combined with atomization (see the recent paper by Nidhi) and extreme hypocrisy. In other words, communication tends to be highly contradictory, or what Bateson discusses as “double bind”. This leads to continuous anxiety. One way to cope with it is to create “total institutions” (Goffman) for oneselves. For those who are entangled in the double binds, especially Bangkok has become something like such a “total institution” where a moral order of Thainess is constructed to exclude external influences (except consumer goods) that might enhance further confusion, and to gain security in a mass/crowd (Canetti). In short, the dramaturgical actions and rituals on the streets of Bangkok by the leaders and masses indicate forms of social and political neurosis, or, to use Canetti again, it is a form of “Umkehrung und Entladung”.
2. A communicative issue: There is little space and hardly any “frames” (Goffman) for political discourse. Political issues are personalized, transformed into moral, cultural issues (Thainess etc.) or forms of beliefs in sacredness (I don’t want to elaborate on this). Personalization, ritualization and especially sacralisation are emotional and difficult to put into a frame of rational discourse. Here Cassirer (Myth of the State) is quite interesting.
3. A sociological issue: Why is there no political discourse? Because political decisions are made by groups and classes outside political institutions. The state institutions and organisations (including parties) are thus not political constructs with a function for society, but regarded as more or less personal fiefdoms to realize personal or group interests.
There are certainly many more aspects. Perhaps I reflect on these in a longer paper.
Islamist conservatism in Malaysia
Neptunian,
“75% of Muslims in Malaysia speaks only Malay”
I think your figure is a bit high, I think it’s closer to 40-50 %. More than 25 % of Malays speak some English, and at least 15 % are nearly or fully fluent. You exaggerate a bit out of emotion. Nobody is claiming PM Najib or UMNO or PAS or JAIS or Perkasa aren’t favouring Malays or even, in the case of JAIS and Perkasa, Islamic and racial bigots, respectively. It is not only Christians who are losers in UMNO/BN’s ongoing attempt to divide Malaysians for political purposes, Malays themselves are victims of these political and religious machinations, as it only increases the ethnic and cultural cleavages in Malaysian society.
Malaysia may not be as moderate as it should, and could be, there is no doubt, but the failure of the opposition parties to effectively counter UMNO, and the (as I have pointed out to Greg) weakness of the non-elite groups in providing alternatives in national leadership, facilitates UMNO/BN and Perkasa to get away with such discriminatory practices in Malaysia. Increasing Islamisation throughout the Islamic World is also catalysing more fervent Islamic practices among Malaysian Muslims, as well as
more dogmatic and nationalistic actions by groups like JAIS and Perkasa, who only give Islam ‘a bad name,’ in the end.
And as bad as Malaysia may seem, it is far worse in the Middle-East, and in South and Central Asia, among Islamic nations.
How to understand Thailand’s conflict
First Andrew MacGregor Marshall thanked me very much (23.2.2).
But when pressed to expand on two disturbing Marshall ‘comments’ that so obviously contradicted Marshall’s own very long story “Thailand’s Moment of Truth” (Part I)
http://wikileaks.org/Thailand-s-Moment-of-Truth-Part.html
Andrew MacGregor Marshall gets oddly huffy and says: ” …I’m not going to respond to your … ignorant questions and comments here when you can’t even be bothered to read my article.”
I am baffled and I am amused. And yes frankly I only scanned Part I of the Marshall story: The Moment of Truth. But even by merely scanning, I could already sniff out Marshall’s sneaky ‘commentating’ style. And Marshall expects me to read the whole four-part story … amazing! Almost as amazing as Thaksin demanding a royal pardon …
Let me just be allowed to point out that the Thaksin Shinawatra criminal National Lottery skimming enterprise, while he was Thai Prime Minister, was Thaksin at his toxic best form. With full malice aforethought Thaksin deliberately entanglied the Crown Prince via millions of Baht of ‘gifts’ to the Prince, skimmed and I suspect bagged and delivered ‘fresh’, with the then Deputy Police Chief Chumphol (outrageous!) as bagman. (Wikileaks source by Marshall)
Why shouldn’t the Thai monarchy be outraged? Why shouldn’t the whole of Thailand be incensed to a boil by such Thaksin corruptive conduct, while he was Thai Prime Minister?
Lest the Thaksin symphatizers still could not grasp the enormity of this particular Thaksin crime … imagine it was the British Crown Prince Charles who had been seduced to accept the money ‘gifts’ by a British Prime Minister who skimmed the money ‘gifts’ from U.K.’s National Lottery.
(Boon hectoring Andrew MacGregor Marshall? Why Mr. Marshall should feel he is being bullied by Boon, I am amazed.)
How bad is Thaksinomics?
I don’t understand that. According to the figures used by the Court to justify their ruling that Thaksin had acquired “unusual wealth” as Prime Minister, they initially froze some 73 billion baht, being the proceeds of his sale of shares to Temasek, but then confiscated some 46 billion baht on the basis that that represented the increase in value due to “policy corruption” from the day on which he became PM. That suggests to me that his family’s total holding in Shincorp alone was some 27 billion in 2001. How do you get 15.1 billion?
Islamist conservatism in Malaysia
Moderate Islam? Malaysian Govt?
Have you been following the news or events in Malaysia? I know Najib pays good money to Western Consultants, but pleeaase, do not insult the Malaysians who actually can read and are reading NM.
1. The word “ALLAH” belongs to Muslims in Malaysia. Any one else caught using it (in publications, or public statements) cab be persecuted.. oops I mean prosecuted
2. Jais (Govt Islamic body) raided a bible society and confiscated 300 malay language bibles, because they contained the word “ALLAH” (Just in case you are ignorant.. 75% of Muslims in Malaysia speaks only Malay
3. Govt Islamic bodies warned churches not to say “ALLAH” in their Malay language sermons or they will organise protest at every church in Malaysia to stop them.
4. List goes on and on…
Meanwhile the Federal Govt and the great moderate Najib kept silent and no saber rattling Islamist were reprimanded. Christians however were told to just suck it up! Is that your idea of moderate as well?
Oh! forgot to mention the threat to burn down churches as well.
Another big weekend for Thailand
My Red Shirt friend at the local market agree that everyone is entitled to voice their own opinion. She prefer an election before reform, while I am of the opposite view. Neither of us claims to be unshakably sure of our views: He bottom line is the vote, while mine is look at one of the likely consequences i.e. a Marcos/Suharto style ‘kleptocracy’ that elections could not remove. So while my friend and I disagree, we both want what is best for the country and we sure aren’t as naive as some of the posters here seem to be – Khun Vichai excepted.